Julius Randle Trade Thread

[Hornets]

Zinger, to me, is a poor man’s Towns but more fragile. Why not. Fuck it.

I’m for doing whatever move frees up space to sign someone in a year or two. This window is closed. Time to reload for the next possible window.

I agree Donald...the window IS closed imo so time to move on and as you say reload. Randle didn't work here, plain and simple.

[somuchyummy]

Probably time to check the latest on the other Julius Randle thread. Food/data for thought.

[thinktank]

Britt was on Dane Moore talking Randle up and how Finch has coached him up to be a team player.

Sell high. Please.

[HeHateMe]

Britt was on Dane Moore talking Randle up and how Finch has coached him up to be a team player.

Sell high. Please.

Yep. Get rid of him before the deadline... Naz starting 4. Let's go.

[weimy froob]

Britt was on Dane Moore talking Randle up and how Finch has coached him up to be a team player.

Sell high. Please.

Yep. Get rid of him before the deadline... Naz starting 4. Let's go.

I'd be surprised that they trade him. I think they're fine with him opting in or opting out and then they make their next move. but the big reason for the response is Naz. what do you think is going on with this guy? he's unstable. someone pointed out that he's had three meltdowns in a row. I'm not remembering what happened in that first game (point it out if you remember), but these last two have been totally uncalled for. the Dallas game was especially bad. I couldn't figure out what he was so upset about. I think finch said he really had no idea after when he was asked about it. I think it kept him from going to him in that last minute and instead he put in Rudy and that almost was disastrous. he's got to keep his cool.

[j-one]

I've been of the mindset that JR will opt out and look for one last multi yr deal this year. I'm second guessing that now. Hate to have him around for another 1.5 seasons (especially w KAT being named a starter to the East All Stars).
In Tim we trust!
In Tim we trust?

[kindman]

Kuzma/Jonas is about the best we could hope for at this point. Both serviceable, on decent contracts and fit our needs.

I would toss in a couple 2nd rounders as well.

[somuchyummy]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary to trade him - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want your young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

and I do think the Celtics would ponder an offer for Zinger. As a returning champ with their entire roster intact, something isn't clicking. They are a meager 11-9 over the past 20 games. They lost again last night to the Lakers - and while Zinger was their leading scorer - he's still the most logical move, and somewhat the odd man out among their starting five. If they have any doubts about his health and availability for the playoffs - Randle is a healthier option, and their production close to identical, with perks/minuses about either player. Porzingis definitely has some questions and negatives - clearly his health - but if we got him, it would just be one year left on his deal with a player that fits Finch's design better than JR. And while JR isn't the three point shooter that KP is, he also would offer Boston a much better option to run the O thru at the high post - dishing to their three point shooters, or having a pretty clear lane to the hoop for drives simply because Boston spreads the floor so well.

[weimy froob]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

[aztimberwolves]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary to trade him - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want your young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

and I do think the Celtics would ponder an offer for Zinger. As a returning champ with their entire roster intact, something isn't clicking. They are a meager 11-9 over the past 20 games. They lost again last night to the Lakers - and while Zinger was their leading scorer - he's still the most logical move, and somewhat the odd man out among their starting five. If they have any doubts about his health and availability for the playoffs - Randle is a healthier option, and their production close to identical, with perks/minuses about either player. Porzingis definitely has some questions and negatives - clearly his health - but if we got him, it would just be one year left on his deal with a player that fits Finch's design better than JR. And while JR isn't the three point shooter that KP is, he also would offer Boston a much better option to run the O thru at the high post - dishing to their three point shooters, or having a pretty clear lane to the hoop for drives simply because Boston spreads the floor so well.

Even if he sticks around, which I think is HIGHLY unlikely, his trade value next year this time is minimal. No one is going to give up much for a few monthss rental. If he does opt in, again really unlikely, his trade value will be best during summer with an extension with his new team already agreed to.


A 3 year 75 mil guaranteed is still better than 1 for 30. He risks injury, and he’s been known to be injury prone, and I dot think he’d do that.

[aztimberwolves]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

The fan base isn’t negative on HIM per se. We just see it as a bad fit and upset at the charade that some are spinning it as a decent trade. There’s a reason why Julius is on His 4th team already and probably soon to be 5th. You got some on here trying to spit out stats and what not to justify it’s working while clearly by actual production and the eye test, it’s clearly not. Yes there’s also many reasons in addition to it, but it’s a MAJOR reason why it’s not. Not one stat can measure intangibles and chemistry and connectivity of a team.

[weimy froob]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

The fan base isn’t negative on HIM per se. We just see it as a bad fit and upset at the charade that some are spinning it as a decent trade. There’s a reason why Julius is on His 4th team already and probably soon to be 5th. You got some on here trying to spit out stats and what not to justify it’s working while clearly by actual production and the eye test, it’s clearly not. Yes there’s also many reasons in addition to it, but it’s a MAJOR reason why it’s not. Not one stat can measure intangibles and chemistry and connectivity of a team.

i've been reading the replies to the wolves Twitter guys who follow the team. very negative from people who are invested enough in the team to post them. there are a few positive ones sprinkled in, but most of them aren't.

[thinktank]

If Boston trades Porzingis it won’t be to us for Randle.

[somuchyummy]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

Yes, and about the defensive lapses. he can have them - and so can nearly everyone else on our team. There are some other examples of him playing some really staunch defense in winning plays - they don't get noticed as much.

As for AZ's comment about spitting out stats when the eye test shows it clearly doesn't work - that is entirely a preconceived negative bias. The stats DO mean something. If you say Ant clearly doesn't have the space needed to score because we've lost our floor spacing big - I will show you clear stats that Ant is scoring more ppg this season on better efficiency. I'm not saying Randle is the reason for that - but it's pretty clear that Randle hasn't caused Ant's game to collapse. Randle, because of the trade, was the immediate scapegoat - especially for our early season troubles. I'm sure he was part of it - the loss of KAT, the insertion of Randle - it was discombobulating. But I will also argue that we suffered just as greatly by Ant clearly jumping off the Defense Wagon he was on the year before - the loss of Kyle's glue game and locker room presence (that was a move completely separate from the KAT trade) and a clear aging loss of pop from both Mike and Rudy, two very important cogs in last year's success. This ain't all on Randle as much as some try to make it to be. And don't get me started on Finch's rigidity and lack of creativity in clutch moments.

[aztimberwolves]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

Yes, and about the defensive lapses. he can have them - and so can nearly everyone else on our team. There are some other examples of him playing some really staunch defense in winning plays - they don't get noticed as much.

As for AZ's comment about spitting out stats when the eye test shows it clearly doesn't work - that is entirely a preconceived negative bias. The stats DO mean something. If you say Ant clearly doesn't have the space needed to score because we've lost our floor spacing big - I will show you clear stats that Ant is scoring more ppg this season on better efficiency. I'm not saying Randle is the reason for that - but it's pretty clear that Randle hasn't caused Ant's game to collapse. Randle, because of the trade, was the immediate scapegoat - especially for our early season troubles. I'm sure he was part of it - the loss of KAT, the insertion of Randle - it was discombobulating. But I will also argue that we suffered just as greatly by Ant clearly jumping off the Defense Wagon he was on the year before - the loss of Kyle's glue game and locker room presence (that was a move completely separate from the KAT trade) and a clear aging loss of pop from both Mike and Rudy, two very important cogs in last year's success. This ain't all on Randle as much as some try to make it to be. And don't get me started on Finch's rigidity and lack of creativity in clutch moments.

Randle has been ok to decent just that. we took a step down from Kat to him. it’s not his fault. but that’s a major step why we aren’t as good as we are last year. Not the the only reason, but a major reason.

[aztimberwolves]

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

Yes, and about the defensive lapses. he can have them - and so can nearly everyone else on our team. There are some other examples of him playing some really staunch defense in winning plays - they don't get noticed as much.

As for AZ's comment about spitting out stats when the eye test shows it clearly doesn't work - that is entirely a preconceived negative bias. The stats DO mean something. If you say Ant clearly doesn't have the space needed to score because we've lost our floor spacing big - I will show you clear stats that Ant is scoring more ppg this season on better efficiency. I'm not saying Randle is the reason for that - but it's pretty clear that Randle hasn't caused Ant's game to collapse. Randle, because of the trade, was the immediate scapegoat - especially for our early season troubles. I'm sure he was part of it - the loss of KAT, the insertion of Randle - it was discombobulating. But I will also argue that we suffered just as greatly by Ant clearly jumping off the Defense Wagon he was on the year before - the loss of Kyle's glue game and locker room presence (that was a move completely separate from the KAT trade) and a clear aging loss of pop from both Mike and Rudy, two very important cogs in last year's success. This ain't all on Randle as much as some try to make it to be. And don't get me started on Finch's rigidity and lack of creativity in clutch moments.

Randle has been ok to decent just that. we took a step down from Kat to him. it’s not his fault. but that’s a major step why we aren’t as good as we are last year. Not the the only reason, but a major reason.

Preconceived negative basis??? The record alone and quality of plate on court is not negative bias it is actual output supported by actual production not stats or projections

[somuchyummy]

And again - you place the vast majority of the weight of the problem on Randle. There have been certainly other factors that have been important as well. And you haven't responded to stats and facts that show Ant's efficiency and scoring haven't suffered - as you clearly and consistently have maintained.

[Jimi_Thing]

Yes, and about the defensive lapses. he can have them - and so can nearly everyone else on our team. There are some other examples of him playing some really staunch defense in winning plays - they don't get noticed as much.

As for AZ's comment about spitting out stats when the eye test shows it clearly doesn't work - that is entirely a preconceived negative bias. The stats DO mean something. If you say Ant clearly doesn't have the space needed to score because we've lost our floor spacing big - I will show you clear stats that Ant is scoring more ppg this season on better efficiency. I'm not saying Randle is the reason for that - but it's pretty clear that Randle hasn't caused Ant's game to collapse. Randle, because of the trade, was the immediate scapegoat - especially for our early season troubles. I'm sure he was part of it - the loss of KAT, the insertion of Randle - it was discombobulating. But I will also argue that we suffered just as greatly by Ant clearly jumping off the Defense Wagon he was on the year before - the loss of Kyle's glue game and locker room presence (that was a move completely separate from the KAT trade) and a clear aging loss of pop from both Mike and Rudy, two very important cogs in last year's success. This ain't all on Randle as much as some try to make it to be. And don't get me started on Finch's rigidity and lack of creativity in clutch moments.

Randle has been ok to decent just that. we took a step down from Kat to him. it’s not his fault. but that’s a major step why we aren’t as good as we are last year. Not the the only reason, but a major reason.

Preconceived negative basis??? The record alone and quality of plate on court is not negative bias it is actual output supported by actual production not stats or projections

We all love and appreciate KAT now but that clearly wasn't the case prior to him being traded. This board was saturated with over the top/misdirected criticism aimed at KAT. It was often ridiculous. Same shit is happening to Randle. Misdirected and over the top.

For example - We all love Naz. I'd argue that Randle is better than Naz. If the Wolves were to go against a team in a 7 game series and I had to choose between either Randle or Naz...I'm choosing Randle. Naz is often great at what he does but he's a finesse player. His temper tantrum also nearly sabotaged the team the other night.

We also need to acknowledge that Naz has played with this team for years. Randle has played with this team for several months.

I predict that Randle's chemistry and play will improve even though Coach Finch's system isn't doing him any favors. I'm pretty much indifferent when it comes to Randle. If there's a make sense trade, great! But a team could do worse than Randle and I think some of the ideas suggested here are worse.

[aztimberwolves]

And again - you place the vast majority of the weight of the problem on Randle. There have been certainly other factors that have been important as well. And you haven't responded to stats and facts that show Ant's efficiency and scoring haven't suffered - as you clearly and consistently have maintained.

Yummy I said in my posts it’s a major reason but there are other factors too. Yes the regression of our whole roster has been concerning. But with Kat, I don’t think that regression is as much as it has been. It’s been painful to watch this team try to adapt this year.

There are zero signs of this coming together either. There’s not really a single thing this team does well where we can hang our hats on ans say that will get us through tough times. This team is much like 2 years ago where they will constantly fluctuate from 2 to 3 games over to 2 to 3 games under. They aren’t a threat to anybody in the West and will be lucky to be cannon fodder in the first round. But it’ll never be because of the trade according to you because you’ll have some obscure stat to show that Julius is this some kind of difference maker all in the feeble attempt to try to justify this trade because you hated Kat being on this team.

At some point you’re gong to have to get over your Kat hate, and admit that Kat is a much much better player than Randle is and will ever hope to be. This trade was all about getting out of the 2nd apron as quick as they could and damn the results. It’s exactly like I said this trade was at the time. A salary dump. If this team truly thought Randle was comparable and wanted him long term, they would have given him the extension. But they didn’t want to and won’t.

[weimy froob]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

Yes, and about the defensive lapses. he can have them - and so can nearly everyone else on our team. There are some other examples of him playing some really staunch defense in winning plays - they don't get noticed as much.

As for AZ's comment about spitting out stats when the eye test shows it clearly doesn't work - that is entirely a preconceived negative bias. The stats DO mean something. If you say Ant clearly doesn't have the space needed to score because we've lost our floor spacing big - I will show you clear stats that Ant is scoring more ppg this season on better efficiency. I'm not saying Randle is the reason for that - but it's pretty clear that Randle hasn't caused Ant's game to collapse. Randle, because of the trade, was the immediate scapegoat - especially for our early season troubles. I'm sure he was part of it - the loss of KAT, the insertion of Randle - it was discombobulating. But I will also argue that we suffered just as greatly by Ant clearly jumping off the Defense Wagon he was on the year before - the loss of Kyle's glue game and locker room presence (that was a move completely separate from the KAT trade) and a clear aging loss of pop from both Mike and Rudy, two very important cogs in last year's success. This ain't all on Randle as much as some try to make it to be. And don't get me started on Finch's rigidity and lack of creativity in clutch moments.

I think he's played good defense for the most part, just some lapses that have led to easy baskets and you do notice them too. but the numbers are the numbers, and they've been real good since December one. I know those are what finch focuses on, because he said next to Ws and Ls that's most important to him. lots of reasons why they've been sputtering, but the short answer for me is that Rudy just looks to be a shell of his regular season from last year self. even much worse to me than that first year. if they can get his motor going again that would help a lot imo.

[somuchyummy]

KAT is a better player than Randle. But I don't think enough to be a #2 on a championship team. So, yes, I am glad we made the move to rid ourselves of the money and health concerns, become more flexible, and hopefully try to put something together around Ant that can eventually be a legit contender. I don't think our roster this year with KAT would be that. You'll disagree. But I also don't think - even with a star-studded starting 5 - that NY will be a legit contender. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, unlike last year, everyone will stay healthy. But if they don't, they're paper thin.

I think the money matters - especially if you are fielding a team that costs a ton, will cost a ton in the future with little flexibility - and isn't a title contender. As I've said, even with KAT, I don't think we were. Here's the money for the top four players' salaries on the six top teams this year.

Houston - $92M
OKC - $95M
Memphis - $106M
Cleveland - $108M
New York - $133M
Boston - $143M

I think the legit contenders of that bunch are OKC, Cleveland and Boston.

If we'd have kept KAT this year, the payroll of our top four players would have been $158M. On a team that I don't think would compare with the three mentioned above. So if the KAT trade was made purely for money, then I think that's a real consideration trying to move forward.

[aztimberwolves]

KAT is a better player than Randle. But I don't think enough to be a #2 on a championship team. So, yes, I am glad we made the move to rid ourselves of the money and health concerns, become more flexible, and hopefully try to put something together around Ant that can eventually be a legit contender. I don't think our roster this year with KAT would be that. You'll disagree. But I also don't think - even with a star-studded starting 5 - that NY will be a legit contender. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, unlike last year, everyone will stay healthy. But if they don't, they're paper thin.

I think the money matters - especially if you are fielding a team that costs a ton, will cost a ton in the future with little flexibility - and isn't a title contender. As I've said, even with KAT, I don't think we were. Here's the money for the top four players' salaries on the six top teams this year.

Houston - $92M
OKC - $95M
Memphis - $106M
Cleveland - $108M
New York - $133M
Boston - $143M

I think the legit contenders of that bunch are OKC, Cleveland and Boston.

If we'd have kept KAT this year, the payroll of our top four players would have been $158M. On a team that I don't think would compare with the three mentioned above. So if the KAT trade was made purely for money, then I think that's a real consideration trying to move forward.

And that’s an argument I can see more than just the blind Randle=Kat and that for calling a spade a spade, that we are just Randle haters.

Agree to disagree on the rest I guess. In any facet of life, it’s always tougher to get to the summit than it is to stay there. Don’t get me wrong, both are tough. But now with the financial rules the way they are, it’s going to be really tough to get a dynasty. I think we are going to see a lot more one and done win titles. You have to seize every opportunity you can to win one when the opportunity is there. That’s why I think it’s foolhardy to try to say take steps back to get flexibility and automatically think we’ll make moves to get back and win multiple championships. That’s a pipe dream.

[HeHateMe]

Randle has been ok to decent just that. we took a step down from Kat to him. it’s not his fault. but that’s a major step why we aren’t as good as we are last year. Not the the only reason, but a major reason.

Preconceived negative basis??? The record alone and quality of plate on court is not negative bias it is actual output supported by actual production not stats or projections

We all love and appreciate KAT now but that clearly wasn't the case prior to him being traded. This board was saturated with over the top/misdirected criticism aimed at KAT. It was often ridiculous. Same shit is happening to Randle. Misdirected and over the top.

For example - We all love Naz. I'd argue that Randle is better than Naz. If the Wolves were to go against a team in a 7 game series and I had to choose between either Randle or Naz...I'm choosing Randle. Naz is often great at what he does but he's a finesse player. His temper tantrum also nearly sabotaged the team the other night.

We also need to acknowledge that Naz has played with this team for years. Randle has played with this team for several months.

I predict that Randle's chemistry and play will improve even though Coach Finch's system isn't doing him any favors. I'm pretty much indifferent when it comes to Randle. If there's a make sense trade, great! But a team could do worse than Randle and I think some of the ideas suggested here are worse.

This is a fair argument right now... with that said, I do not trade KAT for Randle.... if you weren't keeping Naz, should have just kept KAT. If the front office believes Randle > Naz, they should trade Naz and get assets for him versus letting him walk for nothing in July.

[A$$MAN]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want our young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

they could still look to trade him next year. I think they will want to give this more time because they see glimpses of an efficient offense taking root. they built that lead in clutch time with the small lineup. he can have defensive lapses, some of his turnovers are as ugly as Ant's and his three ball percentage isn't great, but his passing has been good. think the basket Ant got after he missed those two threes against Dallas and they got the offensive rebounds.

the fan base is negative on him though, so it's going to be hard for that to change no matter how he plays unless they start seeing more Ws.

Yes, and about the defensive lapses. he can have them - and so can nearly everyone else on our team. There are some other examples of him playing some really staunch defense in winning plays - they don't get noticed as much.

As for AZ's comment about spitting out stats when the eye test shows it clearly doesn't work - that is entirely a preconceived negative bias. The stats DO mean something. If you say Ant clearly doesn't have the space needed to score because we've lost our floor spacing big - I will show you clear stats that Ant is scoring more ppg this season on better efficiency. I'm not saying Randle is the reason for that - but it's pretty clear that Randle hasn't caused Ant's game to collapse. Randle, because of the trade, was the immediate scapegoat - especially for our early season troubles. I'm sure he was part of it - the loss of KAT, the insertion of Randle - it was discombobulating. But I will also argue that we suffered just as greatly by Ant clearly jumping off the Defense Wagon he was on the year before - the loss of Kyle's glue game and locker room presence (that was a move completely separate from the KAT trade) and a clear aging loss of pop from both Mike and Rudy, two very important cogs in last year's success. This ain't all on Randle as much as some try to make it to be. And don't get me started on Finch's rigidity and lack of creativity in clutch moments.

Much like the "Randle is a blackhole" comments that still pop up. The guy came into this season carrying that label but I've seen nothing in his play that supports it. The eye test shows he's a more than willing passer and is further supported by him leading the team in assists.

[HeHateMe]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary to trade him - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want your young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

and I do think the Celtics would ponder an offer for Zinger. As a returning champ with their entire roster intact, something isn't clicking. They are a meager 11-9 over the past 20 games. They lost again last night to the Lakers - and while Zinger was their leading scorer - he's still the most logical move, and somewhat the odd man out among their starting five. If they have any doubts about his health and availability for the playoffs - Randle is a healthier option, and their production close to identical, with perks/minuses about either player. Porzingis definitely has some questions and negatives - clearly his health - but if we got him, it would just be one year left on his deal with a player that fits Finch's design better than JR. And while JR isn't the three point shooter that KP is, he also would offer Boston a much better option to run the O thru at the high post - dishing to their three point shooters, or having a pretty clear lane to the hoop for drives simply because Boston spreads the floor so well.

Even if he sticks around, which I think is HIGHLY unlikely, his trade value next year this time is minimal. No one is going to give up much for a few monthss rental. If he does opt in, again really unlikely, his trade value will be best during summer with an extension with his new team already agreed to.


A 3 year 75 mil guaranteed is still better than 1 for 30. He risks injury, and he’s been known to be injury prone, and I dot think he’d do that.

I don't think anyone would want to take on his deal if it's 3 years 75 mil.... yuck.

Expiring contracts always have value.

[A$$MAN]

KAT is a better player than Randle. But I don't think enough to be a #2 on a championship team. So, yes, I am glad we made the move to rid ourselves of the money and health concerns, become more flexible, and hopefully try to put something together around Ant that can eventually be a legit contender. I don't think our roster this year with KAT would be that. You'll disagree. But I also don't think - even with a star-studded starting 5 - that NY will be a legit contender. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, unlike last year, everyone will stay healthy. But if they don't, they're paper thin.

I think the money matters - especially if you are fielding a team that costs a ton, will cost a ton in the future with little flexibility - and isn't a title contender. As I've said, even with KAT, I don't think we were. Here's the money for the top four players' salaries on the six top teams this year.

Houston - $92M
OKC - $95M
Memphis - $106M
Cleveland - $108M
New York - $133M
Boston - $143M

I think the legit contenders of that bunch are OKC, Cleveland and Boston.

If we'd have kept KAT this year, the payroll of our top four players would have been $158M. On a team that I don't think would compare with the three mentioned above. So if the KAT trade was made purely for money, then I think that's a real consideration trying to move forward.

And that’s an argument I can see more than just the blind Randle=Kat and that for calling a spade a spade, that we are just Randle haters.

Agree to disagree on the rest I guess. In any facet of life, it’s always tougher to get to the summit than it is to stay there. Don’t get me wrong, both are tough. But now with the financial rules the way they are, it’s going to be really tough to get a dynasty. I think we are going to see a lot more one and done win titles. You have to seize every opportunity you can to win one when the opportunity is there. That’s why I think it’s foolhardy to try to say take steps back to get flexibility and automatically think we’ll make moves to get back and win multiple championships. That’s a pipe dream.

AZ, I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that Randle=Towns. However, I have argued that Randle+DD+draft pick while saving money is better than Towns.

[aztimberwolves]

I think Randle will opt in for his final $30M. There's no stopping him hitting FA in 2026 and getting a nice multiyear deal at that time to finish off his career. Yes, there will be more competition - but he'll still get a decent 3 year deal, plus he'll have his $30M in the bank. I don't think it's entirely necessary to trade him - he's played pretty well for us and actually won some games - but do think that if mgmt/Finch are uncertain about his fit, the time to trade him is now - or else he'll likely be back with us next season. And fit is important - you don't necessarily want your young/youngish core to spend another year playing in a system that ultimately won't be their system.

and I do think the Celtics would ponder an offer for Zinger. As a returning champ with their entire roster intact, something isn't clicking. They are a meager 11-9 over the past 20 games. They lost again last night to the Lakers - and while Zinger was their leading scorer - he's still the most logical move, and somewhat the odd man out among their starting five. If they have any doubts about his health and availability for the playoffs - Randle is a healthier option, and their production close to identical, with perks/minuses about either player. Porzingis definitely has some questions and negatives - clearly his health - but if we got him, it would just be one year left on his deal with a player that fits Finch's design better than JR. And while JR isn't the three point shooter that KP is, he also would offer Boston a much better option to run the O thru at the high post - dishing to their three point shooters, or having a pretty clear lane to the hoop for drives simply because Boston spreads the floor so well.

Even if he sticks around, which I think is HIGHLY unlikely, his trade value next year this time is minimal. No one is going to give up much for a few monthss rental. If he does opt in, again really unlikely, his trade value will be best during summer with an extension with his new team already agreed to.


A 3 year 75 mil guaranteed is still better than 1 for 30. He risks injury, and he’s been known to be injury prone, and I dot think he’d do that.

I don't think anyone would want to take on his deal if it's 3 years 75 mil.... yuck.

Expiring contracts always have value.

I’m not saying we signed him for a three-year $75 million deal. I’m saying that that kind of deal would appeal to him more than one year 30 million.. that was in response to yummy thinking he’s not gonna opt out

[aztimberwolves]

KAT is a better player than Randle. But I don't think enough to be a #2 on a championship team. So, yes, I am glad we made the move to rid ourselves of the money and health concerns, become more flexible, and hopefully try to put something together around Ant that can eventually be a legit contender. I don't think our roster this year with KAT would be that. You'll disagree. But I also don't think - even with a star-studded starting 5 - that NY will be a legit contender. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, unlike last year, everyone will stay healthy. But if they don't, they're paper thin.

I think the money matters - especially if you are fielding a team that costs a ton, will cost a ton in the future with little flexibility - and isn't a title contender. As I've said, even with KAT, I don't think we were. Here's the money for the top four players' salaries on the six top teams this year.

Houston - $92M
OKC - $95M
Memphis - $106M
Cleveland - $108M
New York - $133M
Boston - $143M

I think the legit contenders of that bunch are OKC, Cleveland and Boston.

If we'd have kept KAT this year, the payroll of our top four players would have been $158M. On a team that I don't think would compare with the three mentioned above. So if the KAT trade was made purely for money, then I think that's a real consideration trying to move forward.

And that’s an argument I can see more than just the blind Randle=Kat and that for calling a spade a spade, that we are just Randle haters.

Agree to disagree on the rest I guess. In any facet of life, it’s always tougher to get to the summit than it is to stay there. Don’t get me wrong, both are tough. But now with the financial rules the way they are, it’s going to be really tough to get a dynasty. I think we are going to see a lot more one and done win titles. You have to seize every opportunity you can to win one when the opportunity is there. That’s why I think it’s foolhardy to try to say take steps back to get flexibility and automatically think we’ll make moves to get back and win multiple championships. That’s a pipe dream.

AZ, I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that Randle=Towns. However, I have argued that Randle+DD+draft pick while saving money is better than Towns.

And I vehemently disagree with that as well. Championships are still won with stars, regular seasons you can do well with role players and cap savings but when it gets down in the playoffs, stars win. The NBA will always be about quality of players rather than quantity.

[aztimberwolves]

KAT is a better player than Randle. But I don't think enough to be a #2 on a championship team. So, yes, I am glad we made the move to rid ourselves of the money and health concerns, become more flexible, and hopefully try to put something together around Ant that can eventually be a legit contender. I don't think our roster this year with KAT would be that. You'll disagree. But I also don't think - even with a star-studded starting 5 - that NY will be a legit contender. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, unlike last year, everyone will stay healthy. But if they don't, they're paper thin.

I think the money matters - especially if you are fielding a team that costs a ton, will cost a ton in the future with little flexibility - and isn't a title contender. As I've said, even with KAT, I don't think we were. Here's the money for the top four players' salaries on the six top teams this year.

Houston - $92M
OKC - $95M
Memphis - $106M
Cleveland - $108M
New York - $133M
Boston - $143M

I think the legit contenders of that bunch are OKC, Cleveland and Boston.

If we'd have kept KAT this year, the payroll of our top four players would have been $158M. On a team that I don't think would compare with the three mentioned above. So if the KAT trade was made purely for money, then I think that's a real consideration trying to move forward.

And that’s an argument I can see more than just the blind Randle=Kat and that for calling a spade a spade, that we are just Randle haters.

Agree to disagree on the rest I guess. In any facet of life, it’s always tougher to get to the summit than it is to stay there. Don’t get me wrong, both are tough. But now with the financial rules the way they are, it’s going to be really tough to get a dynasty. I think we are going to see a lot more one and done win titles. You have to seize every opportunity you can to win one when the opportunity is there. That’s why I think it’s foolhardy to try to say take steps back to get flexibility and automatically think we’ll make moves to get back and win multiple championships. That’s a pipe dream.

AZ, I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that Randle=Towns. However, I have argued that Randle+DD+draft pick while saving money is better than Towns.

As well as it’s really not Randle. A one year rental of Randle would be more accurate. Is that still just as good???

[A$$MAN]

And that’s an argument I can see more than just the blind Randle=Kat and that for calling a spade a spade, that we are just Randle haters.

Agree to disagree on the rest I guess. In any facet of life, it’s always tougher to get to the summit than it is to stay there. Don’t get me wrong, both are tough. But now with the financial rules the way they are, it’s going to be really tough to get a dynasty. I think we are going to see a lot more one and done win titles. You have to seize every opportunity you can to win one when the opportunity is there. That’s why I think it’s foolhardy to try to say take steps back to get flexibility and automatically think we’ll make moves to get back and win multiple championships. That’s a pipe dream.

AZ, I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that Randle=Towns. However, I have argued that Randle+DD+draft pick while saving money is better than Towns.

And I vehemently disagree with that as well. Championships are still won with stars, regular seasons you can do well with role players and cap savings but when it gets down in the playoffs, stars win. The NBA will always be about quality of players rather than quantity.

This is where we probably disagree...in my opinion, Towns isn't a star and isn't carrying a team to a championship. We witnessed 9 years of that here when we saw a guy look fantastic during the regular season but for whatever reason his play consistently dropped off in the playoffs. If you think Towns is a star, and stars get it done when it matters most, when has he every upped his game in the playoffs? If Towns was a star, he had the perfect opportunity last year to lead us to the finals but faded as he always does in the playoffs.

As for the regular season, Towns is currently doing what he's always done and Thibs is also doing what he's always done. The Knicks will finish with a great regular season record beating up on the mediocre eastern conference while Thibs runs his starters into the ground. Towns will continue to have a great regular season and look fantastic in the process.

The big question is, will either Thibs or Towns be able to buck their trend of fizzling out in the playoffs? Personally, I don't think New York has a chance of getting out of the eastern conference with their paper thin team, let alone beat whomever comes out of the West should they miraculously get to the finals.

Final questions for you since you've made it pretty clear that you believe New York bent the Wolves over in the trade. First, do you think NY has a realistic chance to even get to the finals this year (having to probably go through both Cleveland and Boston)? Does your opinion of the trade change for New York if they remain a good regular season team but never make a serious run in the playoffs or win a championship?

I'll end with this...I think Towns is a great player and a fantastic human being and wish him nothing but the best. But that doesn't change my opinion that for whatever reason he has never upped his game in the playoffs. Whether it's the bright lights and added pressure or just the increased physicality, something has been missing there.