***Official Wolves vs Mavs Game Thread 10/29***

[A$$MAN]

And it’s completely unfair to use Towns numbers this year to compare.New system and still getting acclimated. Towns 52 mil this year Reid 21… that’s not even close to 4 times.

Naz isn't making $21...he's making $13.9.

I guess Towns gets the excuse of new team/new system but not Randle and DD? Randle is playing extremely well right now despite a new team and new system.

You’re right. 14 but still 3 times more for Towns not 4 currently. Next year he’ll get close to high20,s low 30’s and that now under 60 percent of what Towns gets.

For you to move on from Towns, Naz has to prove he’s better than he’s shown so far?? Agreed? I’m just not sure he can. There’s a big difference in talent from being a multiple team all star to sixth man of the year. Naz is a good player, but he’s still not a great player that makes him indispensable on here like some on here think.

What if we traded Reid for DD and a pick? Would that have been better for us?

Yes, I said Naz at hypothetical $30M and his production is better than Towns $53M (next year's salary) and his production. $30M is approximately 57% of $53M. I'll take Naz all day + plus what we get with the difference in salary.

No, trading Naz for DD would not be a good trade because you are creating a hole in your front court. You can't leave that fact out. In the trade that actually happened, we got a player as good as Towns plus a very good wing to add depth.

[A$$MAN]

And it’s completely unfair to use Towns numbers this year to compare.New system and still getting acclimated. Towns 52 mil this year Reid 21… that’s not even close to 4 times.

Naz isn't making $21...he's making $13.9.

I guess Towns gets the excuse of new team/new system but not Randle and DD? Randle is playing extremely well right now despite a new team and new system.

You’re right. 14 but still 3 times more for Towns not 4 currently. Next year he’ll get close to high20,s low 30’s and that now under 60 percent of what Towns gets.

For you to move on from Towns, Naz has to prove he’s better than he’s shown so far?? Agreed? I’m just not sure he can. There’s a big difference in talent from being a multiple team all star to sixth man of the year. Naz is a good player, but he’s still not a great player that makes him indispensable on here like some on here think.

What if we traded Reid for DD and a pick? Would that have been better for us?

Do you really think Naz has peaked before even reaching his prime? You don't think Naz can be better than he is now? Did you watch him last year when Towns was out?

I never once said he was indispensable. But he's definitely worth his contract while Towns is not.

[A$$MAN]

Naz isn't making $21...he's making $13.9.

I guess Towns gets the excuse of new team/new system but not Randle and DD? Randle is playing extremely well right now despite a new team and new system.

You’re right. 14 but still 3 times more for Towns not 4 currently. Next year he’ll get close to high20,s low 30’s and that now under 60 percent of what Towns gets.

For you to move on from Towns, Naz has to prove he’s better than he’s shown so far?? Agreed? I’m just not sure he can. There’s a big difference in talent from being a multiple team all star to sixth man of the year. Naz is a good player, but he’s still not a great player that makes him indispensable on here like some on here think.

What if we traded Reid for DD and a pick? Would that have been better for us?

Yes, I said Naz at hypothetical $30M and his production is better than Towns $53M (next year's salary) and his production. $30M is approximately 57% of $53M. I'll take Naz all day + plus what we get with the difference in salary.

No, trading Naz for DD would not be a good trade because you are creating a hole in your front court. You can't leave that fact out. In the trade that actually happened, we got a player as good as Towns plus a very good wing to add depth.

This is the last time I'll say this...Naz doesn't have to be better than Towns for this trade to be a success. Naz, at his salary, plus whatever players we retain/sign need to be.

I'll add this...the guy we got in the trade has already shown he's as good, if not better, than Towns so it seems like a good plan to move on from him.

If Towns and Naz made the same salary, this isn't a disagreement. You keep Towns. But that's not the case.

[aztimberwolves]

Yep, per 36 isn't a true measure but it's better than comparing a 2nd option with starter minutes vs a 6th man. Let's compare this way then using salary and the trade:

Towns $49M
15pts, 10rbs, 2assts

Naz, Randle, DD $54M
47pts, 17rbs, 10assts

I think we're getting more for our money with those 3 than just Towns.

You conveniently leave out the fact th as t we would still have Naz production WITH Towns this year. It’s not an all or nothing like you’re saying.

Whatever...I'm comparing total salary with production. Meaning Towns costs VIRTUALLY THE SAME as those 3 so comparing what you get for basically $50M. I'm sorry you couldn't comprehend that.

Fine... take Naz stats and salary out. I'll still take Randle and DD at $40M then Towns at $50M.

Randle and DD (not including future pick/asset)

34pts, 10rbs, 8assts and $10M in savings

And that’s fine for this year, but you’re not even thinking of on the defensive side of the ball and the impact Towns had last year. So far we are getting killed on the boards and defensive intensity. Something we didn’t mention last year. Sometimes stats and cumulative stats don’t tell the whole story.

[aztimberwolves]

You conveniently leave out the fact th as t we would still have Naz production WITH Towns this year. It’s not an all or nothing like you’re saying.

Whatever...I'm comparing total salary with production. Meaning Towns costs VIRTUALLY THE SAME as those 3 so comparing what you get for basically $50M. I'm sorry you couldn't comprehend that.

Fine... take Naz stats and salary out. I'll still take Randle and DD at $40M then Towns at $50M.

Randle and DD (not including future pick/asset)

34pts, 10rbs, 8assts and $10M in savings

And that’s fine for this year, but what if Randle moves
on in just year? The you’re down to DD. Also you’re not even thinking of on the defensive side of the ball and the impact Towns had last year. So far we are getting killed on the boards and defensive intensity. Something we didn’t mention last year. Sometimes stats and cumulative stats don’t tell the whole story.

[weimy froob]

Mavs were better because they really committed fewer errors. Limit your errors, limit chances for teams to go on a run. This Wolves team is probably more talented than Dallas is. The fact remains that we have struggled with the smaller things that really help you win games. TOs, FTs, defensive rebounding, closing out to perimeter shooters etc...

all of that, but in the end kyrie and Luka did them in. again.

What sucks is it was a home game and they were coming off a back to back, yet they still played better than us.

don't think they were coming off of a back to back. they play Houston tonight.

[witljon]

all of that, but in the end kyrie and Luka did them in. again.

What sucks is it was a home game and they were coming off a back to back, yet they still played better than us.

don't think they were coming off of a back to back. they play Houston tonight.

Mavs beat the Jazz Monday night and the Wolves Tuesday night. They have no game tonight.

[weimy froob]

What sucks is it was a home game and they were coming off a back to back, yet they still played better than us.

don't think they were coming off of a back to back. they play Houston tonight.

Mavs beat the Jazz Monday night and the Wolves Tuesday night. They have no game tonight.

you're right. thursday night against Houston.

[A$$MAN]

Whatever...I'm comparing total salary with production. Meaning Towns costs VIRTUALLY THE SAME as those 3 so comparing what you get for basically $50M. I'm sorry you couldn't comprehend that.

Fine... take Naz stats and salary out. I'll still take Randle and DD at $40M then Towns at $50M.

Randle and DD (not including future pick/asset)

34pts, 10rbs, 8assts and $10M in savings

And that’s fine for this year, but what if Randle moves
on in just year? The you’re down to DD. Also you’re not even thinking of on the defensive side of the ball and the impact Towns had last year. So far we are getting killed on the boards and defensive intensity. Something we didn’t mention last year. Sometimes stats and cumulative stats don’t tell the whole story.

Well, I personally don't think towns was our defensive anchor and we're lost without him. And seriously? Our defensive intensity is down because Towns isn't here? I'll go with your Towns excuse...we have 3 new players (33% of our players who play) getting acclimated to a new team and new system. This will improve as the season progresses.

Getting killed on the boards? The only game we haven't out rebounded our opponent is a game we won.

Wolves 47 Lakers 46
Wolves 42 Kings 38
Wolves 41 Raptors 46
Wolves 42 Mavs 40

Sometimes stats tell the whole story. We are not getting killed on the boards.

Lastly, again we'll have to wait and see about Randle. You can't keep saying WHAT IF he's not here. We don't know what's going to happen. What if Towns just sucks the rest of his career and we got out of his contract just in time? Then what? Is it a good trade? What if we kept Towns, he ruptures both achilles and we can't trade him and he's not the same player? Then this would have been a good trade, right?

What I know is, Randle and DD are here NOW, and we have a more talented, deeper team NOW.

We don't know what next year will look like. We just need to wait and see. Again, I do know that Towns isn't worth his contract.

[aztimberwolves]

And that’s fine for this year, but what if Randle moves
on in just year? The you’re down to DD. Also you’re not even thinking of on the defensive side of the ball and the impact Towns had last year. So far we are getting killed on the boards and defensive intensity. Something we didn’t mention last year. Sometimes stats and cumulative stats don’t tell the whole story.

Well, I personally don't think towns was our defensive anchor and we're lost without him. And seriously? Our defensive intensity is down because Towns isn't here? I'll go with your Towns excuse...we have 3 new players (33% of our players who play) getting acclimated to a new team and new system. This will improve as the season progresses.

Getting killed on the boards? The only game we haven't out rebounded our opponent is a game we won.

Wolves 47 Lakers 46
Wolves 42 Kings 38
Wolves 41 Raptors 46
Wolves 42 Mavs 40

Sometimes stats tell the whole story. We are not getting killed on the boards.

Lastly, again we'll have to wait and see about Randle. You can't keep saying WHAT IF he's not here. We don't know what's going to happen. What if Towns just sucks the rest of his career and we got out of his contract just in time? Then what? Is it a good trade? What if we kept Towns, he ruptures both achilles and we can't trade him and he's not the same player? Then this would have been a good trade, right?

What I know is, Randle and DD are here NOW, and we have a more talented, deeper team NOW.

We don't know what next year will look like. We just need to wait and see. Again, I do know that Towns isn't worth his contract.

Fair enough. The sky could fall and same exact things could happen to Randle or others. We will have to wait. I like both players we got for Towns, I really do. But we have to get more than one year out of Randle for it to be worth it to me.

The early results are not encouraging. But that’s what i expected. My worst fear is that it takes them all year to gel and when they finally do it’s too late, which wastes one year of Ants prime. And then Randle bolts for zero return. It’s a very distinct possibility.

[Catalyst]

Ant is not in his prime yet. So not wasting it. We are nowhere near seeing his prime which is unreal. It may take nov to shake this out, but I think buy all star break we will know what we have.

[aztimberwolves]

Ant is not in his prime yet. So not wasting it. We are nowhere near seeing his prime which is unreal. It may take nov to shake this out, but I think buy all star break we will know what we have.

And is most definitely in his prime now. He may have just entered it, but he’s there. Let’s hope we don’t fall in the same trap with Garnett at his early age that we have plenty of time to surrond him with chanpinonship talent, and then all of a sudden we look back in 10 years only to see what could have been.

[A$$MAN]

Well, I personally don't think towns was our defensive anchor and we're lost without him. And seriously? Our defensive intensity is down because Towns isn't here? I'll go with your Towns excuse...we have 3 new players (33% of our players who play) getting acclimated to a new team and new system. This will improve as the season progresses.

Getting killed on the boards? The only game we haven't out rebounded our opponent is a game we won.

Wolves 47 Lakers 46
Wolves 42 Kings 38
Wolves 41 Raptors 46
Wolves 42 Mavs 40

Sometimes stats tell the whole story. We are not getting killed on the boards.

Lastly, again we'll have to wait and see about Randle. You can't keep saying WHAT IF he's not here. We don't know what's going to happen. What if Towns just sucks the rest of his career and we got out of his contract just in time? Then what? Is it a good trade? What if we kept Towns, he ruptures both achilles and we can't trade him and he's not the same player? Then this would have been a good trade, right?

What I know is, Randle and DD are here NOW, and we have a more talented, deeper team NOW.

We don't know what next year will look like. We just need to wait and see. Again, I do know that Towns isn't worth his contract.

Fair enough. The sky could fall and same exact things could happen to Randle or others. We will have to wait. I like both players we got for Towns, I really do. But we have to get more than one year out of Randle for it to be worth it to me.

The early results are not encouraging. But that’s what i expected. My worst fear is that it takes them all year to gel and when they finally do it’s too late, which wastes one year of Ants prime. And then Randle bolts for zero return. It’s a very distinct possibility.

It is a possibility that Randle isn't here...I just don't think it's worth worrying about right now. LOTS of season left so try to enjoy it.

I think Randle has looked great and I love the toughness and mentality he brings to this team. Same with DD. His shot isn't falling right now but I have zero concerns that he won't figure that out.

At the end of the day, if Randle isn't here next year I don't think he will be walking for nothing and we'll get something in return. We just have to wait and see.

[A$$MAN]

Ant is not in his prime yet. So not wasting it. We are nowhere near seeing his prime which is unreal. It may take nov to shake this out, but I think buy all star break we will know what we have.

And is most definitely in his prime now. He may have just entered it, but he’s there. Let’s hope we don’t fall in the same trap with Garnett at his early age that we have plenty of time to surrond him with chanpinonship talent, and then all of a sudden we look back in 10 years only to see what could have been.

I hope Ant isn't in his prime at 23. He's still learning the game at this point.

[aztimberwolves]

Well, I personally don't think towns was our defensive anchor and we're lost without him. And seriously? Our defensive intensity is down because Towns isn't here? I'll go with your Towns excuse...we have 3 new players (33% of our players who play) getting acclimated to a new team and new system. This will improve as the season progresses.

Getting killed on the boards? The only game we haven't out rebounded our opponent is a game we won.

Wolves 47 Lakers 46
Wolves 42 Kings 38
Wolves 41 Raptors 46
Wolves 42 Mavs 40

Sometimes stats tell the whole story. We are not getting killed on the boards.

Lastly, again we'll have to wait and see about Randle. You can't keep saying WHAT IF he's not here. We don't know what's going to happen. What if Towns just sucks the rest of his career and we got out of his contract just in time? Then what? Is it a good trade? What if we kept Towns, he ruptures both achilles and we can't trade him and he's not the same player? Then this would have been a good trade, right?

What I know is, Randle and DD are here NOW, and we have a more talented, deeper team NOW.

We don't know what next year will look like. We just need to wait and see. Again, I do know that Towns isn't worth his contract.

Fair enough. The sky could fall and same exact things could happen to Randle or others. We will have to wait. I like both players we got for Towns, I really do. But we have to get more than one year out of Randle for it to be worth it to me.

The early results are not encouraging. But that’s what i expected. My worst fear is that it takes them all year to gel and when they finally do it’s too late, which wastes one year of Ants prime. And then Randle bolts for zero return. It’s a very distinct possibility.

It is a possibility that Randle isn't here...I just don't think it's worth worrying about right now. LOTS of season left so try to enjoy it.

I think Randle has looked great and I love the toughness and mentality he brings to this team. Same with DD. His shot isn't falling right now but I have zero concerns that he won't figure that out.

At the end of the day, if Randle isn't here next year I don't think he will be walking for nothing and we'll get something in return. We just have to wait and see.

We can’t do sign and trades As a 2nd alron team, so if Randle walks, we can’t get anything for him.

[A$$MAN]

Fair enough. The sky could fall and same exact things could happen to Randle or others. We will have to wait. I like both players we got for Towns, I really do. But we have to get more than one year out of Randle for it to be worth it to me.

The early results are not encouraging. But that’s what i expected. My worst fear is that it takes them all year to gel and when they finally do it’s too late, which wastes one year of Ants prime. And then Randle bolts for zero return. It’s a very distinct possibility.

It is a possibility that Randle isn't here...I just don't think it's worth worrying about right now. LOTS of season left so try to enjoy it.

I think Randle has looked great and I love the toughness and mentality he brings to this team. Same with DD. His shot isn't falling right now but I have zero concerns that he won't figure that out.

At the end of the day, if Randle isn't here next year I don't think he will be walking for nothing and we'll get something in return. We just have to wait and see.

We can’t do sign and trades As a 2nd alron team, so if Randle walks, we can’t get anything for him.

As a 2nd apron team, how would trading Towns next year be easy then? Wouldn't we have to trade him straight up for another player making the exact same amount as him? No consolidating players (contracts to match salary), right? So we would not have been able to do this trade next off-season for 3 players (KBD) who make less money.

More rationale for why they traded him now.

[A$$MAN]

It is a possibility that Randle isn't here...I just don't think it's worth worrying about right now. LOTS of season left so try to enjoy it.

I think Randle has looked great and I love the toughness and mentality he brings to this team. Same with DD. His shot isn't falling right now but I have zero concerns that he won't figure that out.

At the end of the day, if Randle isn't here next year I don't think he will be walking for nothing and we'll get something in return. We just have to wait and see.

We can’t do sign and trades As a 2nd alron team, so if Randle walks, we can’t get anything for him.

As a 2nd apron team, how would trading Towns next year be easy then? Wouldn't we have had to trade him straight up for another player making the exact same amount as him? No consolidating players (contracts to match salary), right? So we would not have been able to do this trade next off-season for 3 players (KBD) who make less money.

More rationale for why they traded him now.

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

[aztimberwolves]

We can’t do sign and trades As a 2nd alron team, so if Randle walks, we can’t get anything for him.

As a 2nd apron team, how would trading Towns next year be easy then? Wouldn't we have had to trade him straight up for another player making the exact same amount as him? No consolidating players (contracts to match salary), right? So we would not have been able to do this trade next off-season for 3 players (KBD) who make less money.

More rationale for why they traded him now.

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

They could trade Towns as long as they took back exact
money or less money like they did this one. So no. It wouldn’t have been harder. And they could not combine Towns with say McDaniels to acquire Kevin Durant or something. They can only send out one player but they CAN take back multiple players as long as they are less or exactly same amount amount of money

It is very confusing

[A$$MAN]

As a 2nd apron team, how would trading Towns next year be easy then? Wouldn't we have had to trade him straight up for another player making the exact same amount as him? No consolidating players (contracts to match salary), right? So we would not have been able to do this trade next off-season for 3 players (KBD) who make less money.

More rationale for why they traded him now.

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

They could trade Towns as long as they took back exact
money or less money like they did this one. So no. It wouldn’t have been harder. And they could not combine Towns with say McDaniels to acquire Kevin Durant or something. They can only send out one player but they CAN take back multiple players as long as they are less or exactly same amount amount of money

It is very confusing

It must have something to do with BOTH teams being over the 2nd apron when the trade must be 1 for 1 and exact matching salaries? I could have sworn there was a scenario where this was the case.

And when do picks get frozen? Is that 2nd apron, multiple years in a row? Jesus, what a bunch of shit to sift through.

[aztimberwolves]

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

They could trade Towns as long as they took back exact
money or less money like they did this one. So no. It wouldn’t have been harder. And they could not combine Towns with say McDaniels to acquire Kevin Durant or something. They can only send out one player but they CAN take back multiple players as long as they are less or exactly same amount amount of money

It is very confusing

It must have something to do with BOTH teams being over the 2nd apron when the trade must be 1 for 1 and exact matching salaries? I could have sworn there was a scenario where this was the case.

And when do picks get frozen? Is that 2nd apron, multiple years in a row? Jesus, what a bunch of shit to sift through.

Correct. Like the Knicks are a 1st apron team so they could aggregate salaries and take on a percentage more for Towns than they sent back.

I can’t imagine how hard it would be to trade for 2 2nd apron teams to do.

[Oriole81]

We can’t do sign and trades As a 2nd alron team, so if Randle walks, we can’t get anything for him.

As a 2nd apron team, how would trading Towns next year be easy then? Wouldn't we have had to trade him straight up for another player making the exact same amount as him? No consolidating players (contracts to match salary), right? So we would not have been able to do this trade next off-season for 3 players (KBD) who make less money.

More rationale for why they traded him now.

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

That's what I think too.
Beginning next year, assuming Naz and Randle opt out, we should be under the 2nd apron. So does that mean the rules reset, and we would be able to do a sign and trade for Randle?

Not sure why this convo circled back to Towns, when it should be forward thinking.

[SHAFA]

As a 2nd apron team, how would trading Towns next year be easy then? Wouldn't we have had to trade him straight up for another player making the exact same amount as him? No consolidating players (contracts to match salary), right? So we would not have been able to do this trade next off-season for 3 players (KBD) who make less money.

More rationale for why they traded him now.

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

That's what I think too.
Beginning next year, assuming Naz and Randle opt out, we should be under the 2nd apron. So does that mean the rules reset, and we would be able to do a sign and trade for Randle?

Not sure why this convo circled back to Towns, when it should be forward thinking.

Assuming the cap moves up the expected 10%...

Cap: $154.6 mil
Lux tax (cap + 21%): $187.1 mil
1st apron (tax + $7 mil): $194.1 mil
2nd apron (tax + $17.5 mil): $204.6 mil

If all options are picked up, we've got 12 bodies at just over $190 mil.

[Oriole81]

Also, I'm probably wrong on this, but didn't the gobert extension save us enough to get under the 2nd apron? Especially if Naz opts out as expected? No clue on the ins and outs of these aprons.

That's what I think too.
Beginning next year, assuming Naz and Randle opt out, we should be under the 2nd apron. So does that mean the rules reset, and we would be able to do a sign and trade for Randle?

Not sure why this convo circled back to Towns, when it should be forward thinking.

Assuming the cap moves up the expected 10%...

Cap: $154.6 mil
Lux tax (cap + 21%): $187.1 mil
1st apron (tax + $7 mil): $194.1 mil
2nd apron (tax + $17.5 mil): $204.6 mil

If all options are picked up, we've got 12 bodies at just over $190 mil.

Naz certainly won't opt in, so bank on him getting an additional $10M-$13M, but that would still keep us under.
Plus, we can always salary dump Conley for added room.

So would that mean we ARE able to do a sign and trade for Randle?
Disregarding whether they should or should not keep him, it seems just like the board would like to know if the option is even available.

[A$$MAN]

That's what I think too.
Beginning next year, assuming Naz and Randle opt out, we should be under the 2nd apron. So does that mean the rules reset, and we would be able to do a sign and trade for Randle?

Not sure why this convo circled back to Towns, when it should be forward thinking.

Assuming the cap moves up the expected 10%...

Cap: $154.6 mil
Lux tax (cap + 21%): $187.1 mil
1st apron (tax + $7 mil): $194.1 mil
2nd apron (tax + $17.5 mil): $204.6 mil

If all options are picked up, we've got 12 bodies at just over $190 mil.

Naz certainly won't opt in, so bank on him getting an additional $10M-$13M, but that would still keep us under.
Plus, we can always salary dump Conley for added room.

So would that mean we ARE able to do a sign and trade for Randle?
Disregarding whether they should or should not keep him, it seems just like the board would like to know if the option is even available.

Right, this conversation is just trying to clarify if Randle can leave for nothing if terms of an extension are not agreed upon or if a sign and trade is possible.

[somuchyummy]

Interesting comp. We lose to the Mavs by six - Doncic starts slow, finishes strong and he and Kyrie combined for 59 points. Last night, Houston beats the Mavs by six - surviving a big comeback, Dallas had been down by 22. Doncic starts slow, but finishes strong and he and Kyrie combine for 57. Apparently Houston won the glass, but I think we also out rebounded Dallas. What did the Rockets do that we didn't? TOVs?

[weimy froob]

Interesting comp. We lose to the Mavs by six - Doncic starts slow, finishes strong and he and Kyrie combined for 59 points. Last night, Houston beats the Mavs by six - surviving a big comeback, Dallas had been down by 22. Doncic starts slow, but finishes strong and he and Kyrie combine for 57. Apparently Houston won the glass, but I think we also out rebounded Dallas. What did the Rockets do that we didn't? TOVs?

Washington and grimes combined only scored seven points. against the wolves they combined for 26 points. that's one thing.

[somuchyummy]

So maybe a winning formula against the Mavs is not to worry about shutting down Kyrie.and Luka - as long as you take care of the ball, rebound and clamp down on the rest of their guys?