Line drawn for trade values

[Señor Trumpo]

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

If AZ wants to play hardball let them trade with the Giants. I think it's 60/40 that the Giants would take Harrison Jr over whichever QB is left. Their regime has to win otherwise they're gone. I don't think taking McCarthy or Maye is going to help them win games in 2024. Then Chargers take the 2nd WR and AZ is left with the last of the big 3. Vikings then trade up to 8 with ATL and take the last of the top 4 QBs without giving up 23.

I don't understand this Giants angle going around.
How is their situation any different than ours?

Both their GM and HC are going into year 3, just like ours.
They had a very successful year one, culminating in actually beating us in the playoffs and their HC winning Coach of the Year

They too have a very good up and coming young defense, in fact probably better than ours and with 4 premier young players.
Need to get out from under an expensive veteran QB, but have opportunity to do that this draft.

How is that any different than us?
I don't think KOC and Kwesi are on the hot seats, in fact I think them selecting a long term QB actually buys them time.

I don't get it.

They gave Daniel Jones a huge contract extension after 2022 season. If they trade up to draft a QB this year, it doesn't look good for the GM after wasting $80+ Million dollars.

[Oriole81]

If AZ wants to play hardball let them trade with the Giants. I think it's 60/40 that the Giants would take Harrison Jr over whichever QB is left. Their regime has to win otherwise they're gone. I don't think taking McCarthy or Maye is going to help them win games in 2024. Then Chargers take the 2nd WR and AZ is left with the last of the big 3. Vikings then trade up to 8 with ATL and take the last of the top 4 QBs without giving up 23.

I don't understand this Giants angle going around.
How is their situation any different than ours?

Both their GM and HC are going into year 3, just like ours.
They had a very successful year one, culminating in actually beating us in the playoffs and their HC winning Coach of the Year

They too have a very good up and coming young defense, in fact probably better than ours and with 4 premier young players.
Need to get out from under an expensive veteran QB, but have opportunity to do that this draft.

How is that any different than us?
I don't think KOC and Kwesi are on the hot seats, in fact I think them selecting a long term QB actually buys them time.

I don't get it.

They gave Daniel Jones a huge contract extension after 2022 season. If they trade up to draft a QB this year, it doesn't look good for the GM after wasting $80+ Million dollars.

They made the deal so they could get out after 2 years if it didn't work out, and part of strong leadership is also about knowing how to cut your losses and proactively move on.
The only reason that Jones was even in a position to get that contract was because of what Daboll did for him.

Jones was an absolute embarrassment prior, and after one year of working with Daboll, he has them winning a playoff game.

That's exactly the reason why they should want to keep Daboll and empower him to fix this.
If they think otherwise, then they're stupid.

[Señor Trumpo]

I don't understand this Giants angle going around.
How is their situation any different than ours?

Both their GM and HC are going into year 3, just like ours.
They had a very successful year one, culminating in actually beating us in the playoffs and their HC winning Coach of the Year

They too have a very good up and coming young defense, in fact probably better than ours and with 4 premier young players.
Need to get out from under an expensive veteran QB, but have opportunity to do that this draft.

How is that any different than us?
I don't think KOC and Kwesi are on the hot seats, in fact I think them selecting a long term QB actually buys them time.

I don't get it.

They gave Daniel Jones a huge contract extension after 2022 season. If they trade up to draft a QB this year, it doesn't look good for the GM after wasting $80+ Million dollars.

They made the deal so they could get out after 2 years if it didn't work out, and part of strong leadership is also about knowing how to cut your losses and proactively move on.
The only reason that Jones was even in a position to get that contract was because of what Daboll did for him.

Jones was an absolute embarrassment prior, and after one year of working with Daboll, he has them winning a playoff game.

That's exactly the reason why they should want to keep Daboll and empower him to fix this.
If they think otherwise, then they're stupid.

I don't have that much confidence in Joe Schoen. Daboll could be a great coach, it's too early to tell. I think the contract extension was due to the Donatell defense which makes me think that their Joe is an idiot. I did hear within the last week that the Giants have no desire to trade up it's either a QB @ 6 or a weapon for Daniel Jones.

[Oriole81]

It's not even an effort there... if AZ picks a WR, it's no skin off MN's back. It just means a #5 trade is cheaper. In some sense MN could say, please and thank you to that.

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

If AZ wants to play hardball let them trade with the Giants. I think it's 60/40 that the Giants would take Harrison Jr over whichever QB is left. Their regime has to win otherwise they're gone. I don't think taking McCarthy or Maye is going to help them win games in 2024. Then Chargers take the 2nd WR and AZ is left with the last of the big 3. Vikings then trade up to 8 with ATL and take the last of the top 4 QBs without giving up 23.

Let's do this point as well, as it looks like we glossed over.
You don't see the Chargers trading down either?

The Giants trading up to 4 and taking MHJ wouldn't have any impact on the Chargers plans if we're to presume that they're a prime trade down candidate with any teams around us.

[Oriole81]

They gave Daniel Jones a huge contract extension after 2022 season. If they trade up to draft a QB this year, it doesn't look good for the GM after wasting $80+ Million dollars.

They made the deal so they could get out after 2 years if it didn't work out, and part of strong leadership is also about knowing how to cut your losses and proactively move on.
The only reason that Jones was even in a position to get that contract was because of what Daboll did for him.

Jones was an absolute embarrassment prior, and after one year of working with Daboll, he has them winning a playoff game.

That's exactly the reason why they should want to keep Daboll and empower him to fix this.
If they think otherwise, then they're stupid.

I don't have that much confidence in Joe Schoen. Daboll could be a great coach, it's too early to tell. I think the contract extension was due to the Donatell defense which makes me think that their Joe is an idiot. I did hear within the last week that the Giants have no desire to trade up it's either a QB @ 6 or a weapon for Daniel Jones.

Jones played well, it wasn't just a fluke against Donatell.
Daboll had previously developed Josh Allen and Allen showed obvious ups and downs after Daboll left, and you could tell that Jones showed marked improvement after just one year while working with Daboll.

Now, the smart thing probably would have been to see what was really going on there and take it as an opportunity to invest further in Daboll and his ability to develop QBs instead of giving $40M to Jones (and I said that at the time), but that misstep still shouldn't cancel out what was really going on there.

Now regarding Schoen specifcally, that may be true about him as an individual, but after just two years its probably hard to separate the GM and the HC, especially when the GM was instrumental in getting the HC there.

[mlhouse]

I know, that's why I don't think AZ really wants to move out.
I think there's just smoke coming from them because they just want attention and don't want to be glossed over in the swooning.

Now I could see a scenario where we do a 3 way trade with us going to 4, AZ going to 5 for a small kick back like a 4th, and LAC going back to 11/23, but I really don't think they're going to trade out of the MHJ pick unless they can drive the price so damn high..

So call them on it. Say I don't think you're going to pass on your guy here (just like none of the 4-6 pick teams did in 2018) and make them stick and pick at 4.

It's not even an effort there... if AZ picks a WR, it's no skin off MN's back. It just means a #5 trade is cheaper. In some sense MN could say, please and thank you to that.

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

Couple of points.

1. I think the trade value of moving up is pretty static no matter what spot we move into. Picks 3 - 5 probably cost exactly the same with maybe the Vikings getting a bit more draft capital back in the deal with picks 4 or 5 than 3. I think to a certain extent, pick 2 is the same but I believe that is untouchable.

2. The evaluation of the wide receivers is almost more important to the Vikings trade up potential than anything else. For teams 4 - 6 in this draft order, wide receiver is a priority need and there are high valued prospects available for them to choose. I think a very possible, maybe even probable draft order 1-6 would be QB-QB-QB-WR-WR-WR without a single trade.

This has obviously been a major topic of discussion for weeks now. I've thought a lot about it and I think the Vikings have two courses to follow that are very similar.

Course 1 is of to make it a no doubter and trade to #3 - 5, most likely 5th overall. That will cost 11, 23, and 2025 first round pick plus other value depending on which spot they get. #3 gives them their choice. #4 or 5 gives them, most likely, QB4 in the draft.

Course 2 is to take a small risk and see if we can trade to the Giants pick at #6. This could conceivably be done with #11 and #23. If the Vikings do not trade into the 3-5th spot, the Giants might be looking at WR3 and not being too thrilled with that option; of course they might have the OT of their choice or choose QB themselves. But a 2nd first round pick might be enough for them to move down 5 spots in the draft.

[Señor Trumpo]

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

If AZ wants to play hardball let them trade with the Giants. I think it's 60/40 that the Giants would take Harrison Jr over whichever QB is left. Their regime has to win otherwise they're gone. I don't think taking McCarthy or Maye is going to help them win games in 2024. Then Chargers take the 2nd WR and AZ is left with the last of the big 3. Vikings then trade up to 8 with ATL and take the last of the top 4 QBs without giving up 23.

Let's do this point as well, as it looks like we glossed over.
You don't see the Chargers trading down either?

The Giants trading up to 4 and taking MHJ wouldn't have any impact on the Chargers plans if we're to presume that they're a prime trade down candidate with any teams around us.

I can see them trading down, but I think it's MN or LV with them. Denver doesn't have any draft capital. I could also see them sticking and taking Joe Alt. Harbaugh loves his O-line. I'm beginning to think that if they have to give up a 2025 1st that it's either for their guy (Probably Maye) or they stay at 11 for Penix. My only disappointment would be is if they take Nix. I really don't want him on this team.

[Oriole81]

If AZ wants to play hardball let them trade with the Giants. I think it's 60/40 that the Giants would take Harrison Jr over whichever QB is left. Their regime has to win otherwise they're gone. I don't think taking McCarthy or Maye is going to help them win games in 2024. Then Chargers take the 2nd WR and AZ is left with the last of the big 3. Vikings then trade up to 8 with ATL and take the last of the top 4 QBs without giving up 23.

Let's do this point as well, as it looks like we glossed over.
You don't see the Chargers trading down either?

The Giants trading up to 4 and taking MHJ wouldn't have any impact on the Chargers plans if we're to presume that they're a prime trade down candidate with any teams around us.

I can see them trading down, but I think it's MN or LV with them. Denver doesn't have any draft capital. I could also see them sticking and taking Joe Alt. Harbaugh loves his O-line. I'm beginning to think that if they have to give up a 2025 1st that it's either for their guy (Probably Maye) or they stay at 11 for Penix. My only disappointment would be is if they take Nix. I really don't want him on this team.

Denver has draft capital. The only thing they don't have is this year's 2nd, but that wouldn't stop them from going three firsts in a row if they wanted to.
Now we can beat that considering we have the two firsts this year so those plus next years would win, but do we really want to do that?

The Chargers then can pitch that they're actually better off with a RT like Fuaga/Latham instead of Alt or moving Slater to the RT, so it would be in their interest anyway to move down and facilitate that.

Now I'll say that I'm not saying this is what the Chargers SHOULD do, just that these are the conversations they are having with Kwesi to try and convince him that he needs to make a huge move up. They can absolutely sell that they are ready to move down.
I would love it if Kwesi called his bluff and then the Chargers stick and take Alt, and allow for us to move up more affordably with Atl at 8.

[Oriole81]

It's not even an effort there... if AZ picks a WR, it's no skin off MN's back. It just means a #5 trade is cheaper. In some sense MN could say, please and thank you to that.

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

Couple of points.

1. I think the trade value of moving up is pretty static no matter what spot we move into. Picks 3 - 5 probably cost exactly the same with maybe the Vikings getting a bit more draft capital back in the deal with picks 4 or 5 than 3. I think to a certain extent, pick 2 is the same but I believe that is untouchable.

2. The evaluation of the wide receivers is almost more important to the Vikings trade up potential than anything else. For teams 4 - 6 in this draft order, wide receiver is a priority need and there are high valued prospects available for them to choose. I think a very possible, maybe even probable draft order 1-6 would be QB-QB-QB-WR-WR-WR without a single trade.

This has obviously been a major topic of discussion for weeks now. I've thought a lot about it and I think the Vikings have two courses to follow that are very similar.

Course 1 is of to make it a no doubter and trade to #3 - 5, most likely 5th overall. That will cost 11, 23, and 2025 first round pick plus other value depending on which spot they get. #3 gives them their choice. #4 or 5 gives them, most likely, QB4 in the draft.

Course 2 is to take a small risk and see if we can trade to the Giants pick at #6. This could conceivably be done with #11 and #23. If the Vikings do not trade into the 3-5th spot, the Giants might be looking at WR3 and not being too thrilled with that option; of course they might have the OT of their choice or choose QB themselves. But a 2nd first round pick might be enough for them to move down 5 spots in the draft.

I agree that offering three firsts would get us to 5, but you only do that if you are convinced that another team like Den was already prepared to do it.
If Den was actually prepared to do that though, and the Chargers still passed entirely and stick and pick at 5, then nothing changes.
Den would make that exact same offer to the Giants, so you'd still have to offer 3 firsts.

More often that not though, the "overpay" is more about the one team trying to convince the other team that they have a great offer on the table that needs to be matched, and hoping the other team falls for it.

But If the Chargers tried to convince you that you need to pay 3 firsts to get them to move up and you don't bite, and then are able to get to 6 with just the 11 and 23, then you know the Chargers were bullshitting you.

We don't want to be the team that gets bullshitted.

[mlhouse]

We don't want to be the team that gets bullshitted.

But we also want to be the team that gets a potential franchise QB. The cost is the insurance to doing that.

And I think too much is put on this "three first round pick" thing. If we made the deal it would be two firsts and two seconds net.

[Hornets]

Just a reminder.....NOTHING has ever worked for the Vikings that brought them a SB victory. The team has been mired in mediocrity and close calls for its entire existence. If we overpay for a supposed franchise QB and he fails, what the hell does that even matter? It would just be an addition of some more non-SB years. If Qwesi & KOC are truly convinced that they can get themselves a long term, franchise QB who might be able to get them over the hump then DO IT!

[TheLokNesMonster]

Just a reminder.....NOTHING has ever worked for the Vikings that brought them a SB victory. The team has been mired in mediocrity and close calls for its entire existence. If we overpay for a supposed franchise QB and he fails, what the hell does that even matter? It would just be an addition of some more non-SB years. If Qwesi & KOC are truly convinced that they can get themselves a long term, franchise QB who might be able to get them over the hump then DO IT!

It’s now or never. He’s going all in because he’ll probably get canned if there no improvement in last year.

[Mnwild1128]

It's not even an effort there... if AZ picks a WR, it's no skin off MN's back. It just means a #5 trade is cheaper. In some sense MN could say, please and thank you to that.

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

Couple of points.

1. I think the trade value of moving up is pretty static no matter what spot we move into. Picks 3 - 5 probably cost exactly the same with maybe the Vikings getting a bit more draft capital back in the deal with picks 4 or 5 than 3. I think to a certain extent, pick 2 is the same but I believe that is untouchable.

2. The evaluation of the wide receivers is almost more important to the Vikings trade up potential than anything else. For teams 4 - 6 in this draft order, wide receiver is a priority need and there are high valued prospects available for them to choose. I think a very possible, maybe even probable draft order 1-6 would be QB-QB-QB-WR-WR-WR without a single trade.

This has obviously been a major topic of discussion for weeks now. I've thought a lot about it and I think the Vikings have two courses to follow that are very similar.

Course 1 is of to make it a no doubter and trade to #3 - 5, most likely 5th overall. That will cost 11, 23, and 2025 first round pick plus other value depending on which spot they get. #3 gives them their choice. #4 or 5 gives them, most likely, QB4 in the draft.

Course 2 is to take a small risk and see if we can trade to the Giants pick at #6. This could conceivably be done with #11 and #23. If the Vikings do not trade into the 3-5th spot, the Giants might be looking at WR3 and not being too thrilled with that option; of course they might have the OT of their choice or choose QB themselves. But a 2nd first round pick might be enough for them to move down 5 spots in the draft.

The difference between pick 2 and pick 3 is pick 27's value. The difference between pick 3 and pick 5 is pick 86's value. The difference between pick 3 and 4 and pick 4 and 5 is pick 120's value. 4th round value is still a quality difference between those latter selections.

Also being this is the deepest WR class i have seen since i have been following in 1997, i personally would opt to trade out of picks 4-6 and target my #1 guy in Brian Thomas Jr. or even Adonai Mitchell. One of those 3 WR at the top is getting pushed down closer to pick 10.

[mlhouse]

The difference between pick 2 and pick 3 is pick 27's value. The difference between pick 3 and pick 5 is pick 86's value. The difference between pick 3 and 4 and pick 4 and 5 is pick 120's value. 4th round value is still a quality difference between those latter selections.

Also being this is the deepest WR class i have seen since i have been following in 1997, i personally would opt to trade out of picks 4-6 and target my #1 guy in Brian Thomas Jr. or even Adonai Mitchell. One of those 3 WR at the top is getting pushed down closer to pick 10.

Value charts have no bearing.......


I think it is a deep receiving corps but the top 2 or 3 receivers are much better than the rest.

But as I said, I think if you get to pick 6 to trade up to, the price might be a bit lower. However, there also might be more competition to move up there too as pick 6 is that much closer to pick 12 and pick 13.

DO the GIants see Odunze as that much better value than Brian Thomas that they would not risk dropping to 11 and getting another first? I don't know. Do they see Alt as a player who has that value?

In the Froob draft I made the trade to #5. IN the real NFL draft, I think I am targeting #6, betting the Cardinals do not want to trade out of #4 and Harrison, and that the Chargers will not want to trade to Denver or Oakland.

The Giants selecting 6 has the players available at their spot more bunched up in value that they would not mind trading down and getting #23.

[Obi-Wan]

How far can they move up trading pick 23 and next year's number 1? No one has talked about that scenario.

[cunningham]

How far can they move up trading pick 23 and next year's number 1? No one has talked about that scenario.

We are all hoping it gets us to #3 to draft Maye. In most years that is enough, but this overhyped year of quarterbacks it might not be enough. It might end up being what we pay to the Chargers for JJ.

Which make Harbaugh's revenge and dish best served cold.

[Small Hands]

How far can they move up trading pick 23 and next year's number 1? No one has talked about that scenario.

We are all hoping it gets us to #3 to draft Maye. In most years that is enough, but this overhyped year of quarterbacks it might not be enough. It might end up being what we pay to the Chargers for JJ.

Which make Harbaugh's revenge and dish best served cold.

I feel trading 3 1sts for McCarthy is a death knell. That’s an absolute franchise butcher move. When scouts say he’s “an acquired taste”, I’m running for the hills. The guy wasn’t even being talked about until January as a 1st round pick. Honestly, I only watched 5-6 of his games last year, but nothing excited me about him. Certainly, not enough to mortgage the future for.

[cunningham]

How far can they move up trading pick 23 and next year's number 1? No one has talked about that scenario.

We are all hoping it gets us to #3 to draft Maye. In most years that is enough, but this overhyped year of quarterbacks it might not be enough. It might end up being what we pay to the Chargers for JJ.

Which make Harbaugh's revenge and dish best served cold.

I feel trading 3 1sts for McCarthy is a death knell. That’s an absolute franchise butcher move. When scouts say he’s “an acquired taste”, I’m running for the hills. The guy wasn’t even being talked about until January as a 1st round pick. Honestly, I only watched 5-6 of his games last year, but nothing excited me about him. Certainly, not enough to mortgage the future for.

I feel like that too. Too much rationalizing from fans here on him. Let Denver take him by trading away their future picks through 2030...

I feel like Maye would fall to us most years as well. He regressed as the season went on and even against the Gophers he had to interceptions. He needs a lot of grooming, but teams give up on quarterbacks in a millisecond these days. Almost better to stay pat, let the Patriots take Maye, and then pick him up in 3 years when he fails for a 6th rounder.

[salamander]

This year, I don't think AZ wants to move out of 4 and LAC are better off trading down with us, so don't let them fool you into thinking you need to overpay or that it's this or nothing.

Marvin Harrison Jr. won't make it past AZ. This will be Kyler Murrey's final year to prove it.

I know, that's why I don't think AZ really wants to move out.
I think there's just smoke coming from them because they just want attention and don't want to be glossed over in the swooning.

Now I could see a scenario where we do a 3 way trade with us going to 4, AZ going to 5 for a small kick back like a 4th, and LAC going back to 11/23, but I really don't think they're going to trade out of the MHJ pick unless they can drive the price so damn high..

So call them on it. Say I don't think you're going to pass on your guy here (just like none of the 4-6 pick teams did in 2018) and make them stick and pick at 4.

100% with ya.

[minnemike]

It's not even an effort there... if AZ picks a WR, it's no skin off MN's back. It just means a #5 trade is cheaper. In some sense MN could say, please and thank you to that.

AZ's "pitch" is that they would be content getting Nabers or Odunze on top of a big trade down bounty, and that would make them happy.
That's their only angle for even being in this conversation, the illusion that they could be willing to pass on MHJ for a bounty of picks.

Take it back to 2018 like this thread, Cle and Den could have theoretically made the same pitch to Buff that they would be content with DB2 or DL2, and Buff called them on it. Cle stayed at 4 and took Ward and Den stayed at 5 and took Chubb.

Do the same thing with AZ. Tell them they will get a market based offer just like every other team, or they can just stick and pick Harrison at 4 like we all know they really want to do.

Couple of points.

1. I think the trade value of moving up is pretty static no matter what spot we move into. Picks 3 - 5 probably cost exactly the same with maybe the Vikings getting a bit more draft capital back in the deal with picks 4 or 5 than 3. I think to a certain extent, pick 2 is the same but I believe that is untouchable.

I think it's the opposite on this unless you can assume MN is ok with any of the top 4 at the same value and/or assume these teams really are ok with just drafting a guy instead of reaping picks. This seems like a variable that happens on draft day as picks happen. If MN really likes a certain guy more than others, then they will pay more of that guy is there at the spot they can trade into. Otherwise, they might just pass. The smokescreen right now is that they are in love with multiple guys but it would be the correct stance for a smokescreen if you want to trade up.

[mlhouse]

How far can they move up trading pick 23 and next year's number 1? No one has talked about that scenario.

We are all hoping it gets us to #3 to draft Maye. In most years that is enough, but this overhyped year of quarterbacks it might not be enough. It might end up being what we pay to the Chargers for JJ.

Which make Harbaugh's revenge and dish best served cold.

I feel trading 3 1sts for McCarthy is a death knell. That’s an absolute franchise butcher move. When scouts say he’s “an acquired taste”, I’m running for the hills. The guy wasn’t even being talked about until January as a 1st round pick. Honestly, I only watched 5-6 of his games last year, but nothing excited me about him. Certainly, not enough to mortgage the future for.

You haven't heard a single scout say he is an acquired taste. All you have heard is a bunch of internet "pundits" make those statements.

While most of real scouts reports are inside knowledge, there is zero doubt in my mind that NFL scouts love JJ McCarthy. Everything he does is like a prototypical NFL quarterback with plus arm and plus mobility. And unlike the other top QBs in this draft, he played in a pro system that had him under center and running true play action. This was especially true when McCarthy weighed in at 219 lbs at the combine.

[Small Hands]

We are all hoping it gets us to #3 to draft Maye. In most years that is enough, but this overhyped year of quarterbacks it might not be enough. It might end up being what we pay to the Chargers for JJ.

Which make Harbaugh's revenge and dish best served cold.

I feel trading 3 1sts for McCarthy is a death knell. That’s an absolute franchise butcher move. When scouts say he’s “an acquired taste”, I’m running for the hills. The guy wasn’t even being talked about until January as a 1st round pick. Honestly, I only watched 5-6 of his games last year, but nothing excited me about him. Certainly, not enough to mortgage the future for.

You haven't heard a single scout say he is an acquired taste. All you have heard is a bunch of internet "pundits" make those statements.

While most of real scouts reports are inside knowledge, there is zero doubt in my mind that NFL scouts love JJ McCarthy. Everything he does is like a prototypical NFL quarterback with plus arm and plus mobility. And unlike the other top QBs in this draft, he played in a pro system that had him under center and running true play action. This was especially true when McCarthy weighed in at 219 lbs at the combine.

Daniel Jeremiah said those exact words. He is a former NFL scout

[mlhouse]

I feel trading 3 1sts for McCarthy is a death knell. That’s an absolute franchise butcher move. When scouts say he’s “an acquired taste”, I’m running for the hills. The guy wasn’t even being talked about until January as a 1st round pick. Honestly, I only watched 5-6 of his games last year, but nothing excited me about him. Certainly, not enough to mortgage the future for.

You haven't heard a single scout say he is an acquired taste. All you have heard is a bunch of internet "pundits" make those statements.

While most of real scouts reports are inside knowledge, there is zero doubt in my mind that NFL scouts love JJ McCarthy. Everything he does is like a prototypical NFL quarterback with plus arm and plus mobility. And unlike the other top QBs in this draft, he played in a pro system that had him under center and running true play action. This was especially true when McCarthy weighed in at 219 lbs at the combine.

Daniel Jeremiah said those exact words. He is a former NFL scout

I notice an adjective before the word NFL that makes all the difference in the world.

[Beetlejuice]

Let's do this point as well, as it looks like we glossed over.
You don't see the Chargers trading down either?

The Giants trading up to 4 and taking MHJ wouldn't have any impact on the Chargers plans if we're to presume that they're a prime trade down candidate with any teams around us.

I can see them trading down, but I think it's MN or LV with them. Denver doesn't have any draft capital. I could also see them sticking and taking Joe Alt. Harbaugh loves his O-line. I'm beginning to think that if they have to give up a 2025 1st that it's either for their guy (Probably Maye) or they stay at 11 for Penix. My only disappointment would be is if they take Nix. I really don't want him on this team.

Denver has draft capital. The only thing they don't have is this year's 2nd, but that wouldn't stop them from going three firsts in a row if they wanted to.
Now we can beat that considering we have the two firsts this year so those plus next years would win, but do we really want to do that?

The Chargers then can pitch that they're actually better off with a RT like Fuaga/Latham instead of Alt or moving Slater to the RT, so it would be in their interest anyway to move down and facilitate that.

Now I'll say that I'm not saying this is what the Chargers SHOULD do, just that these are the conversations they are having with Kwesi to try and convince him that he needs to make a huge move up. They can absolutely sell that they are ready to move down.
I would love it if Kwesi called his bluff and then the Chargers stick and take Alt, and allow for us to move up more affordably with Atl at 8.

Denver gave the bag away for Wilson. I doubt they will give the bag away again like they did. Raiders are more than likely to do so, but they want Penix.

[Beetlejuice]

I feel trading 3 1sts for McCarthy is a death knell. That’s an absolute franchise butcher move. When scouts say he’s “an acquired taste”, I’m running for the hills. The guy wasn’t even being talked about until January as a 1st round pick. Honestly, I only watched 5-6 of his games last year, but nothing excited me about him. Certainly, not enough to mortgage the future for.

You haven't heard a single scout say he is an acquired taste. All you have heard is a bunch of internet "pundits" make those statements.

While most of real scouts reports are inside knowledge, there is zero doubt in my mind that NFL scouts love JJ McCarthy. Everything he does is like a prototypical NFL quarterback with plus arm and plus mobility. And unlike the other top QBs in this draft, he played in a pro system that had him under center and running true play action. This was especially true when McCarthy weighed in at 219 lbs at the combine.

Daniel Jeremiah said those exact words. He is a former NFL scout

So? He’s plugged in. He proved it last year by calling for Houston to trade up for Will Anderson after drafting CJ Stroud.

Is Gil Brandt a shit scout since he did mock drafts for the NFL network too?

[Oriole81]

I can see them trading down, but I think it's MN or LV with them. Denver doesn't have any draft capital. I could also see them sticking and taking Joe Alt. Harbaugh loves his O-line. I'm beginning to think that if they have to give up a 2025 1st that it's either for their guy (Probably Maye) or they stay at 11 for Penix. My only disappointment would be is if they take Nix. I really don't want him on this team.

Denver has draft capital. The only thing they don't have is this year's 2nd, but that wouldn't stop them from going three firsts in a row if they wanted to.
Now we can beat that considering we have the two firsts this year so those plus next years would win, but do we really want to do that?

The Chargers then can pitch that they're actually better off with a RT like Fuaga/Latham instead of Alt or moving Slater to the RT, so it would be in their interest anyway to move down and facilitate that.

Now I'll say that I'm not saying this is what the Chargers SHOULD do, just that these are the conversations they are having with Kwesi to try and convince him that he needs to make a huge move up. They can absolutely sell that they are ready to move down.
I would love it if Kwesi called his bluff and then the Chargers stick and take Alt, and allow for us to move up more affordably with Atl at 8.

Denver gave the bag away for Wilson. I doubt they will give the bag away again like they did. Raiders are more than likely to do so, but they want Penix.

I don't think Sean Payton gives a fuck about Denver's future, so I could see him making a short sighted decision that aligns with what he wants to happen, regardless of how it impacts the future of the team.

I personally think that Den should have just thrown in the towel after the Russ/Hackett one year fiasco and just started over slow, but instead they doubled down on the mistake and paid big money plus huge draft compensation to lure Peyton away and have him fix things fast.
Now they are at risk of doubling down on that double dow, because there's nobody there that could block him if that's what he decides he wants to do.

So I agree with you that they SHOULDN'T do that, but sometimes the guy with nothing to lose can be the most dangerous.

[Beetlejuice]

Denver has draft capital. The only thing they don't have is this year's 2nd, but that wouldn't stop them from going three firsts in a row if they wanted to.
Now we can beat that considering we have the two firsts this year so those plus next years would win, but do we really want to do that?

The Chargers then can pitch that they're actually better off with a RT like Fuaga/Latham instead of Alt or moving Slater to the RT, so it would be in their interest anyway to move down and facilitate that.

Now I'll say that I'm not saying this is what the Chargers SHOULD do, just that these are the conversations they are having with Kwesi to try and convince him that he needs to make a huge move up. They can absolutely sell that they are ready to move down.
I would love it if Kwesi called his bluff and then the Chargers stick and take Alt, and allow for us to move up more affordably with Atl at 8.

Denver gave the bag away for Wilson. I doubt they will give the bag away again like they did. Raiders are more than likely to do so, but they want Penix.

I don't think Sean Payton gives a fuck about Denver's future, so I could see him making a short sighted decision that aligns with what he wants to happen, regardless of how it impacts the future of the team.

I personally think that Den should have just thrown in the towel after the Russ/Hackett one year fiasco and just started over slow, but instead they doubled down on the mistake and paid big money plus huge draft compensation to lure Peyton away and have him fix things fast.
Now they are at risk of doubling down on that double dow, because there's nobody there that could block him if that's what he decides he wants to do.

So I agree with you that they SHOULDN'T do that, but sometimes the guy with nothing to lose can be the most dangerous.

You had me doing Denver’s mock drafts and I had to wait 60 picks after 12 to draft someone else. Denver has a ton of needs (Safety, CB, WR, LB). I believe they will trade down and try to recoup some picks they’ve lost.

[mlhouse]

You haven't heard a single scout say he is an acquired taste. All you have heard is a bunch of internet "pundits" make those statements.

While most of real scouts reports are inside knowledge, there is zero doubt in my mind that NFL scouts love JJ McCarthy. Everything he does is like a prototypical NFL quarterback with plus arm and plus mobility. And unlike the other top QBs in this draft, he played in a pro system that had him under center and running true play action. This was especially true when McCarthy weighed in at 219 lbs at the combine.

Daniel Jeremiah said those exact words. He is a former NFL scout

So? He’s plugged in. He proved it last year by calling for Houston to trade up for Will Anderson after drafting CJ Stroud.

Is Gil Brandt a shit scout since he did mock drafts for the NFL network too?

SOOOOO.... if he was a NFL scout he would not be a former NFL scout.

Daniel Jeremiah said this: "I think Young is the best quarterback in this year’s class."

Jerimiah's last Mock draft for 2023 dated 4/26 had WIl Levis as the 4th overall pick.

He did call the Houston trade: "It’s no secret that Arizona wants to trade out of No. 3, and it’s no secret that Houston is seriously considering an edge rusher with the second pick. Both teams get what they want in this scenario. Houston now has a pillar on each side of the ball."

Nice job.

[Oriole81]

Denver gave the bag away for Wilson. I doubt they will give the bag away again like they did. Raiders are more than likely to do so, but they want Penix.

I don't think Sean Payton gives a fuck about Denver's future, so I could see him making a short sighted decision that aligns with what he wants to happen, regardless of how it impacts the future of the team.

I personally think that Den should have just thrown in the towel after the Russ/Hackett one year fiasco and just started over slow, but instead they doubled down on the mistake and paid big money plus huge draft compensation to lure Peyton away and have him fix things fast.
Now they are at risk of doubling down on that double dow, because there's nobody there that could block him if that's what he decides he wants to do.

So I agree with you that they SHOULDN'T do that, but sometimes the guy with nothing to lose can be the most dangerous.

You had me doing Denver’s mock drafts and I had to wait 60 picks after 12 to draft someone else. Denver has a ton of needs (Safety, CB, WR, LB). I believe they will trade down and try to recoup some picks they’ve lost.

I would love that.
Let's remember that the whole point of this specific thread is about being able to maximize our own value, so if we are confident that the Giants aren't actually interested in a QB, or that Den wouldn't really mortgage their future in order to move up for QB4...then there's no reason that we shouldn't be able to maximize this opportunity.

If we know there's no QB needy teams after Pick 3 and before we're on the clock, and if we know that we can beat any offer of the QB needy teams behind us, then we're in the driver's seat.

[Small Hands]

You haven't heard a single scout say he is an acquired taste. All you have heard is a bunch of internet "pundits" make those statements.

While most of real scouts reports are inside knowledge, there is zero doubt in my mind that NFL scouts love JJ McCarthy. Everything he does is like a prototypical NFL quarterback with plus arm and plus mobility. And unlike the other top QBs in this draft, he played in a pro system that had him under center and running true play action. This was especially true when McCarthy weighed in at 219 lbs at the combine.

Daniel Jeremiah said those exact words. He is a former NFL scout

So? He’s plugged in. He proved it last year by calling for Houston to trade up for Will Anderson after drafting CJ Stroud.

Is Gil Brandt a shit scout since he did mock drafts for the NFL network too?

I’m not sure what you are arguing here. I quoted the guy and said I’m concerned, because of said quote. Calm down dude.