Line drawn for trade values

[minnemike]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

[-VikingsTw-]

I'm not really interested in trading any picks at all.

Jayden Daniels is the exception because of what he can become and how consistent he has shown he can be. He has the type of talent to be an NFL Mvp and cause DC's sleepless nights. But he's not without concern.

After that I'm riding it out and rocking with 23. I did a mock sim last night and had my option of Penix or Bo Nix at QB and drafted Byron Murphy at 23. That's a long shot with Byron but it's possible. That and bunch of other really good options. Cooper DeJean, Graham Barton, Nate Wiggins, UCLA Edge Latu, Powers Johnson.

I just don't know how much it's worth to give up one of those combo's for one guy. Then if it's next years first you have to add in that player to.

So these trades are very expensive, especially when you are dealing with a group of QB's that are kinda ranking close together.

Now if you think Denver and the Raiders are gonna be able to jump you that's when it becomes really sketch. It would be absolutely bonkers if 6 QB's went before 11, that's almost guaranteed not to happen. It also means the Giants take a QB and they probably would only swing on a very high ceiling QB like Maye.

A lot of JJ hype, I think he could be there at 11.

It's easier to say all this when you job isn't on the line and if you have a QB identified tiers and tiers better than the othesr it is what it is. Get ready to sign checks next FA period.

[-VikingsTw-]

Just recently we have drafted Jordan Addison and Christian Darrisaw both at 23.

[Small Hands]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

[minnemike]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

THen I dont do it. That is my line in the sand. But I am hearing that some of these QB needy teams that are really non-QB needy are best served to trade away... and I also heard that some of these QBs are quietly getting their agents to push for them to trade also. That could lower the price. It's not unheard of for top QB talent to push successfully for a preferred landing spot.

[Oriole81]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I disagree on trading to #5.
Part of the reason why any of the Top 3 or AZ can claim a premium is the thought that they are passing up the opportunity to draft a franchise QB or the best WR prospect of this generation.

That's not the case with the Chargers. There's no generationally great prospects, there's just average year level prospects.
It actually makes sense for them to trade down, which greatly impacts their negotiating position. Now it's just about commensurate value.
11 and 23 is completely commensurate value, especially considering no other team that could be in competition to trade up, has two firsts this year to match.

Maybe pepper in a mid round pick this year or a 3rd next year to seal, but no way that you should have to pay 3 firsts to get up to 5.
You should easily be able to call that bluff.

[Beetlejuice]

I will kick my dog and Ms Juice if they take Penix at 11.

[Oriole81]

I will kick my dog and Ms Juice if they take Penix at 11.

So...trade up to 5 and take him?

[William Munny]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I think it takes at least 3 - 1st's to get into the top 4.

#2 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe 2026 1st.
#3 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe another mid-round pick
#4 - #11,#23, 2025 1st
#5 - #11, #23 and a mid-round pick.

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

Valid take. But here is what it is going to cost

#2 - the three firsts and a 3 kicker at least
#3 - the three firsts and maybe even a kicker
#4 - same as 3 (because of leverage)
#5 - the 2 for this year and a kicker (unless Denver is throwing a lot at them)



The problem is with valuing spots over players. If you think the guy is a future all pro, then spend whatever. If not, then avoid. The place that player is picked is irrelevant.

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I think it takes at least 3 - 1st's to get into the top 4.

#2 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe 2026 1st.
#3 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe another mid-round pick
#4 - #11,#23, 2025 1st
#5 - #11, #23 and a mid-round pick.

We seem to have written almost the exact thing.

[Beetlejuice]

I will kick my dog and Ms Juice if they take Penix at 11.

So...trade up to 5 and take him?

I’ll burn the house down, circle around and hit the hydrant so the firefighters couldn’t put the burning furniture out.

[William Munny]

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I think it takes at least 3 - 1st's to get into the top 4.

#2 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe 2026 1st.
#3 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe another mid-round pick
#4 - #11,#23, 2025 1st
#5 - #11, #23 and a mid-round pick.

We seem to have written almost the exact thing.

Pretty much. There is a possibility that the Vikings may have to give up 3 firsts for #5. If QB goes #1-3 and the Cardinals pick MHJ, then you could get a situation in which there is a bidding war for #5. The Giants could be very interested in trading up 1 spot to get McCarthy at #5 for a 2nd round pick, thus push the Vikings to give up three 1sts if they really want QB #4.

[mlhouse]

I think it takes at least 3 - 1st's to get into the top 4.

#2 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe 2026 1st.
#3 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe another mid-round pick
#4 - #11,#23, 2025 1st
#5 - #11, #23 and a mid-round pick.

We seem to have written almost the exact thing.

Pretty much. There is a possibility that the Vikings may have to give up 3 firsts for #5. If QB goes #1-3 and the Cardinals pick MHJ, then you could get a situation in which there is a bidding war for #5. The Giants could be very interested in trading up 1 spot to get McCarthy at #5 for a 2nd round pick, thus push the Vikings to give up three 1sts if they really want QB #4.

It will cost 3 firsts plus to move into ANY spot to select one of the top 4 QBs in this draft.

[minnemike]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

Valid take. But here is what it is going to cost

#2 - the three firsts and a 3 kicker at least
#3 - the three firsts and maybe even a kicker
#4 - same as 3 (because of leverage)
#5 - the 2 for this year and a kicker (unless Denver is throwing a lot at them)



The problem is with valuing spots over players. If you think the guy is a future all pro, then spend whatever. If not, then avoid. The place that player is picked is irrelevant.

That's the thing... we don't know how many of them if not all of them are seen by MN as that guy. That gives them the luxury to not have to sell out for the one guy at a higher spot. That guy might even be Penix too. So considering what we don't know, I simply laid out trade values assuming they would take any of them. But sure... if there is one guy out there that they value above all others, then they shouldnt feel shy about trading more.

[Oriole81]

I think it takes at least 3 - 1st's to get into the top 4.

#2 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe 2026 1st.
#3 - #11,#23, 2025 1st and maybe another mid-round pick
#4 - #11,#23, 2025 1st
#5 - #11, #23 and a mid-round pick.

We seem to have written almost the exact thing.

Pretty much. There is a possibility that the Vikings may have to give up 3 firsts for #5. If QB goes #1-3 and the Cardinals pick MHJ, then you could get a situation in which there is a bidding war for #5. The Giants could be very interested in trading up 1 spot to get McCarthy at #5 for a 2nd round pick, thus push the Vikings to give up three 1sts if they really want QB #4.

11 and 23 is better than 6 and a 2nd.

At 6, their options are WR2 that is not a generational talent, or taking a LT and making him move to RT.
Then, their 2nd pick from the deal wouldn't be until 47, which is a MAJOR step down from 23 in this year's draft.

Kwesi should be able to negotiate that.

[William Munny]

We seem to have written almost the exact thing.

Pretty much. There is a possibility that the Vikings may have to give up 3 firsts for #5. If QB goes #1-3 and the Cardinals pick MHJ, then you could get a situation in which there is a bidding war for #5. The Giants could be very interested in trading up 1 spot to get McCarthy at #5 for a 2nd round pick, thus push the Vikings to give up three 1sts if they really want QB #4.

11 and 23 is better than 6 and a 2nd.

At 6, their options are WR2 that is not a generational talent, or taking a LT and making him move to RT.
Then, their 2nd pick from the deal wouldn't be until 47, which is a MAJOR step down from 23 in this year's draft.

Kwesi should be able to negotiate that.

True, but they can still get Nabers or Odunze at #6 and not likely down at #11. That holds a lot of value if they see either or both as elite WR's. Also, expect teams lower down salivating to trade up for Nabers or Odunze.

[crash davis]

Do whatever it takes for Maye.

[Small Hands]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I disagree on trading to #5.
Part of the reason why any of the Top 3 or AZ can claim a premium is the thought that they are passing up the opportunity to draft a franchise QB or the best WR prospect of this generation.

That's not the case with the Chargers. There's no generationally great prospects, there's just average year level prospects.
It actually makes sense for them to trade down, which greatly impacts their negotiating position. Now it's just about commensurate value.
11 and 23 is completely commensurate value, especially considering no other team that could be in competition to trade up, has two firsts this year to match.

Maybe pepper in a mid round pick this year or a 3rd next year to seal, but no way that you should have to pay 3 firsts to get up to 5.
You should easily be able to call that bluff.

Chargers need a WR. The top 3 WRs are projected to go top 10. Depends on where their valuation is of the WR crop. If their values of Odunze are close to Thomas Jr, it’s possible I guess.I personally think Harrison and Odunze go 4 and 5. Both generational talents.

[Oriole81]

Pretty much. There is a possibility that the Vikings may have to give up 3 firsts for #5. If QB goes #1-3 and the Cardinals pick MHJ, then you could get a situation in which there is a bidding war for #5. The Giants could be very interested in trading up 1 spot to get McCarthy at #5 for a 2nd round pick, thus push the Vikings to give up three 1sts if they really want QB #4.

11 and 23 is better than 6 and a 2nd.

At 6, their options are WR2 that is not a generational talent, or taking a LT and making him move to RT.
Then, their 2nd pick from the deal wouldn't be until 47, which is a MAJOR step down from 23 in this year's draft.

Kwesi should be able to negotiate that.

True, but they can still get Nabers or Odunze at #6 and not likely down at #11. That holds a lot of value if they see either or both as elite WR's. Also, expect teams lower down salivating to trade up for Nabers or Odunze.

Bowers should be in that tier too. If all 3 of the WRs are gone, it's very likely that Bowers would be available at 11.
If they say they have to have one of Nabers or Odunze, you tell them they could always trade back up and get one of them like the Cards did last year.
Or, just tell them they're wrong and that this is a greatly deep WR class and they would be wise to leverage that depth.

[Oriole81]

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I disagree on trading to #5.
Part of the reason why any of the Top 3 or AZ can claim a premium is the thought that they are passing up the opportunity to draft a franchise QB or the best WR prospect of this generation.

That's not the case with the Chargers. There's no generationally great prospects, there's just average year level prospects.
It actually makes sense for them to trade down, which greatly impacts their negotiating position. Now it's just about commensurate value.
11 and 23 is completely commensurate value, especially considering no other team that could be in competition to trade up, has two firsts this year to match.

Maybe pepper in a mid round pick this year or a 3rd next year to seal, but no way that you should have to pay 3 firsts to get up to 5.
You should easily be able to call that bluff.

Chargers need a WR. The top 3 WRs are projected to go top 10. Depends on where their valuation is of the WR crop. If their values of Odunze are close to Thomas Jr, it’s possible I guess.I personally think Harrison and Odunze go 4 and 5. Both generational talents.

You should be able to argue against that.
Chargers don't NEED a top 5 WR.

[William Munny]

We could be wrong and the Jim Harbaugh, "Mr. OL," could really want Joe Alt. Alt will not be available at #11.

[Small Hands]

I disagree on trading to #5.
Part of the reason why any of the Top 3 or AZ can claim a premium is the thought that they are passing up the opportunity to draft a franchise QB or the best WR prospect of this generation.

That's not the case with the Chargers. There's no generationally great prospects, there's just average year level prospects.
It actually makes sense for them to trade down, which greatly impacts their negotiating position. Now it's just about commensurate value.
11 and 23 is completely commensurate value, especially considering no other team that could be in competition to trade up, has two firsts this year to match.

Maybe pepper in a mid round pick this year or a 3rd next year to seal, but no way that you should have to pay 3 firsts to get up to 5.
You should easily be able to call that bluff.

Chargers need a WR. The top 3 WRs are projected to go top 10. Depends on where their valuation is of the WR crop. If their values of Odunze are close to Thomas Jr, it’s possible I guess.I personally think Harrison and Odunze go 4 and 5. Both generational talents.

You should be able to argue against that.
Chargers don't NEED a top 5 WR.

Josh Palmer is their current #1 WR. They 100% need talent at that position. Odunze can step in and immediately be your #1. Nabers maybe, but I don’t think anyone outside of the top 3 can step in and be WR1 on day one.

[Oriole81]

Chargers need a WR. The top 3 WRs are projected to go top 10. Depends on where their valuation is of the WR crop. If their values of Odunze are close to Thomas Jr, it’s possible I guess.I personally think Harrison and Odunze go 4 and 5. Both generational talents.

You should be able to argue against that.
Chargers don't NEED a top 5 WR.

Josh Palmer is their current #1 WR. They 100% need talent at that position. Odunze can step in and immediately be your #1. Nabers maybe, but I don’t think anyone outside of the top 3 can step in and be WR1 on day one.

Here's how I respond to that...

"Bowers is a generational TE, so take him and make him your Kelce/Kittle. Or, if you feel you NEED Odunze or Nabers only, then why the fuck are we talking in the first place? Whether you get two or 3 first round picks is meaningless in the grand scheme things if you think you have to have one of those guys only.
However, then don't consider yourself anything special of an offensive mind because plenty of HCs have done more with far less, especially when a pro bowl QB is already being gifted to you."

Their entire position in this discussion is bullshit, so call them out on it.

[Oriole81]

We could be wrong and the Jim Harbaugh, "Mr. OL," could really want Joe Alt. Alt will not be available at #11.

Fashanu could. He was in the Froob draft after all 3 of the WRs and Bowers went.
But Fashanu is one of the better OL prospects in years as well.

Not to mention the fact that, Fuaga is probably the best fit for them considering he wouldn't have to change sides like Alt or Fashanu would.
They could trade down and take Fuaga, and then get 23 as a cherry.

[Small Hands]

You should be able to argue against that.
Chargers don't NEED a top 5 WR.

Josh Palmer is their current #1 WR. They 100% need talent at that position. Odunze can step in and immediately be your #1. Nabers maybe, but I don’t think anyone outside of the top 3 can step in and be WR1 on day one.

Here's how I respond to that...

"Bowers is a generational TE, so take him and make him your Kelce/Kittle. Or, if you feel you NEED Odunze or Nabers only, then why the fuck are we talking in the first place? Whether you get two or 3 first round picks is meaningless in the grand scheme things if you think you have to have one of those guys only.
However, then don't consider yourself anything special of an offensive mind because plenty of HCs have done more with far less, especially when a pro bowl QB is already being gifted to you."

Their entire position in this discussion is bullshit, so call them out on it.

I think Bowers goes to the Giants. It’s been reported that Waller is contemplating retirement to pursue a music career.

Their stance will be “give me an offer I can’t refuse”. Otherwise, I need to focus on finding talent, and the top end talent isn’t going to be there at 11. Good players… just not generational players.

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

We seem to have written almost the exact thing.

Pretty much. There is a possibility that the Vikings may have to give up 3 firsts for #5. If QB goes #1-3 and the Cardinals pick MHJ, then you could get a situation in which there is a bidding war for #5. The Giants could be very interested in trading up 1 spot to get McCarthy at #5 for a 2nd round pick, thus push the Vikings to give up three 1sts if they really want QB #4.

It will cost 3 firsts plus to move into ANY spot to select one of the top 4 QBs in this draft.

I think this is the accurate take.

[Oriole81]

Josh Palmer is their current #1 WR. They 100% need talent at that position. Odunze can step in and immediately be your #1. Nabers maybe, but I don’t think anyone outside of the top 3 can step in and be WR1 on day one.

Here's how I respond to that...

"Bowers is a generational TE, so take him and make him your Kelce/Kittle. Or, if you feel you NEED Odunze or Nabers only, then why the fuck are we talking in the first place? Whether you get two or 3 first round picks is meaningless in the grand scheme things if you think you have to have one of those guys only.
However, then don't consider yourself anything special of an offensive mind because plenty of HCs have done more with far less, especially when a pro bowl QB is already being gifted to you."

Their entire position in this discussion is bullshit, so call them out on it.

I think Bowers goes to the Giants. It’s been reported that Waller is contemplating retirement to pursue a music career.

Their stance will be “give me an offer I can’t refuse”. Otherwise, I need to focus on finding talent, and the top end talent isn’t going to be there at 11. Good players… just not generational players.

That position is bullshit.
There is top end talent at their specific positions of need.

Now they may TRY that, but if you fall for it, then that's on you.

[Small Hands]

Here's how I respond to that...

"Bowers is a generational TE, so take him and make him your Kelce/Kittle. Or, if you feel you NEED Odunze or Nabers only, then why the fuck are we talking in the first place? Whether you get two or 3 first round picks is meaningless in the grand scheme things if you think you have to have one of those guys only.
However, then don't consider yourself anything special of an offensive mind because plenty of HCs have done more with far less, especially when a pro bowl QB is already being gifted to you."

Their entire position in this discussion is bullshit, so call them out on it.

I think Bowers goes to the Giants. It’s been reported that Waller is contemplating retirement to pursue a music career.

Their stance will be “give me an offer I can’t refuse”. Otherwise, I need to focus on finding talent, and the top end talent isn’t going to be there at 11. Good players… just not generational players.

That position is bullshit.
There is top end talent at their specific positions of need.

Now they may TRY that, but if you fall for it, then that's on you.

Geez dude

[Oriole81]

I think Bowers goes to the Giants. It’s been reported that Waller is contemplating retirement to pursue a music career.

Their stance will be “give me an offer I can’t refuse”. Otherwise, I need to focus on finding talent, and the top end talent isn’t going to be there at 11. Good players… just not generational players.

That position is bullshit.
There is top end talent at their specific positions of need.

Now they may TRY that, but if you fall for it, then that's on you.

Geez dude

I don't mean to direct that towards you.
I'm just role playing the conversation between Kwesi and the Chargers leadership.

If the Chargers came out with a line like you said, I would hope that Kwesi knows how to aggressively push back and call their bluff.