Line drawn for trade values

[Small Hands]

That position is bullshit.
There is top end talent at their specific positions of need.

Now they may TRY that, but if you fall for it, then that's on you.

Geez dude

I don't mean to direct that towards you.
I'm just role playing the conversation between Kwesi and the Chargers leadership.

If the Chargers came out with a line like you said, I would hope that Kwesi knows how to aggressively push back and call their bluff.

You’re giving waaaay too much credit to Kwesi. He’s been fleeced in draft trades. I would hope he would push through the BS, I just don’t see him having the backbone to get aggressive.

[Oriole81]

Geez dude

I don't mean to direct that towards you.
I'm just role playing the conversation between Kwesi and the Chargers leadership.

If the Chargers came out with a line like you said, I would hope that Kwesi knows how to aggressively push back and call their bluff.

You’re giving waaaay too much credit to Kwesi. He’s been fleeced in draft trades. I would hope he would push through the BS, I just don’t see him having the backbone to get aggressive.

I definitely share your apprehension about him specifically, but that is how a competent GM should be able to handle that dialogue.

[RubeTube]

Pretty simple where my line is….

Willing to trade 3 1sts for one of the BIG3.

After that? Just sitting tight at pick #11 and #23.

No thanks to trading two 1sts for QB #4.

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

Pretty simple where my line is….

Willing to trade 3 1sts for one of the BIG3.

After that? Just sitting tight at pick #11 and #23.

No thanks to trading two 1sts for QB #4.

Who is QB4?

[RubeTube]

Pretty simple where my line is….

Willing to trade 3 1sts for one of the BIG3.

After that? Just sitting tight at pick #11 and #23.

No thanks to trading two 1sts for QB #4.

Who is QB4?

Not sure, that’s why I wait. They are all a pile of tier 2’s.

And let’s not be cute here, we all know who the top 3 are.

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

Pretty simple where my line is….

Willing to trade 3 1sts for one of the BIG3.

After that? Just sitting tight at pick #11 and #23.

No thanks to trading two 1sts for QB #4.

Who is QB4?

Not sure, that’s why I wait. They are all a pile of tier 2’s.

And let’s not be cute here, we all know who the top 3 are.

Do you mean the consensus Top 3? Because people like Hoge or Simms don't like Maye.

[cunningham]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.



Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

[mlhouse]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.



Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

Mel has MN trading up to 5 and taking McCarthy as QB4. Great move.

[RubeTube]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.



Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

This is what happens when you are mediocre year after year and some here root for that.

If they knew this was the year they wanted a QB in the draft, they should have traded Cousins last offseason along with Hunter like some of us suggested. Imagine where we would be drafting and the picks we would have. But no, lets make sure to win 7 or so games, still suck and trade the farm for the consolation prize QB. There’s a reason we have never won a championship.

[Tommy_Hawk]

How do the top 5 (JJ and Penix) compare to last year's prospects? It's as if Levis would go Top-5 this year because of the QB needy teams. However, is that just pre draft hype about this year's guys and the draft will unfold similar to last year? Is Daniels this years Richardson? Will teams reach more because the need is higher when normally a guy like that falls down?

I'm almost more intrigued by how the entire draft pans out, versus what the Vikings will do. If one of your two guys are at 4 and you want to make a move, I support it. If he isn't, the idea of reaching bums me out. Stand pat with Darnold and draft some BPA's at 11 and 23.

[cdr2529]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.

No way would I trade any picks for JJ but the other three yes!

Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

[cunningham]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.



Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

This is what happens when you are mediocre year after year and some here root for that.

If they knew this was the year they wanted a QB in the draft, they should have traded Cousins last offseason along with Hunter like some of us suggested. Imagine where we would be drafting and the picks we would have. But no, lets make sure to win 7 or so games, still suck and trade the farm for the consolation prize QB. There’s a reason we have never won a championship.

In my life this feels like the only year we have actually had a legit shot at a blue chip quarterback in the draft. And we might end up with Ponder again.

I never wanted Cousins and I believe he cost Zimmer his job as well as Rick. Although, Rick sucked at the quarterback position and we all have PTRD (Post Traumatic Rick Disorder) at this point. A first round pick for Sam Bradford.. WTF? We could have sucked that year and the back up, I can't remember his name, was decent. Bradford had serious issues and was gonna be cut by Philly... Let alone Ponder, Freeman, Webb, and other horse-spit Rick put on this team. To me it was obvious when we played Washington and Keenum matched him that it would foolish to overpay him.

But we ended up make Kirk Cousins one of the highest paid players in NFL history. For what? Look where we are now.

We needed a better long term plan at quarterback, but we for way too long have been shortsighted. Going back to the last century. Drafting Cullpepper was probably the last decent move this team made in the draft at quarterback, but half the fans were not even alive back then.

So we have a gun to our head and the top 3 teams all need quarterbacks. So we will overpay and end up with a Lance or Darnold probably. It sucks. Even Maye is overhyped and not at all worth 3 first round picks. JJ shouldn't go before our pick, but the hype on him is insane right now.

We could have stayed pat and taken Nix. We'd have a lot of our picks and a quarterback to learn behind Darnold.

But, I'll be happy if we just have a prospect at the position for once. Maye would be the highest we've ever picked a quarterback if we get him at 3. Might as well take a shot for once!

[Beetlejuice]

How do the top 5 (JJ and Penix) compare to last year's prospects? It's as if Levis would go Top-5 this year because of the QB needy teams. However, is that just pre draft hype about this year's guys and the draft will unfold similar to last year? Is Daniels this years Richardson? Will teams reach more because the need is higher when normally a guy like that falls down?

I'm almost more intrigued by how the entire draft pans out, versus what the Vikings will do. If one of your two guys are at 4 and you want to make a move, I support it. If he isn't, the idea of reaching bums me out. Stand pat with Darnold and draft some BPA's at 11 and 23.

Here’s how I would compare the two QB classes
Williams
Maye
Daniels
Young
Stroud
Richardson
JJ
Penix
Levis
Nix

[Da Gas Man's Ghost]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.



Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

It's an interesting thought that JJ is worth two but not three. Obviously, it's because you think there's a bigger risk. Because if the factor is that you don't think he will be as great as a franchise QB, then he's not worth 2. And if you think he will be, he's worth 3.

[Small Hands]

How do the top 5 (JJ and Penix) compare to last year's prospects? It's as if Levis would go Top-5 this year because of the QB needy teams. However, is that just pre draft hype about this year's guys and the draft will unfold similar to last year? Is Daniels this years Richardson? Will teams reach more because the need is higher when normally a guy like that falls down?

I'm almost more intrigued by how the entire draft pans out, versus what the Vikings will do. If one of your two guys are at 4 and you want to make a move, I support it. If he isn't, the idea of reaching bums me out. Stand pat with Darnold and draft some BPA's at 11 and 23.

Here’s how I would compare the two QB classes
Williams
Maye
Daniels
Young
Stroud
Richardson
JJ
Penix
Levis
Nix

[Beef Supreme]

Here is my current valuation for a trade.

1. #2 overall - I would only trade three #1 picks (includes two #1s this year plus garnish if needed) for pick #2... that likely means the ability to pick anyone that isnt Caleb. That is a fair deal.

2. #3 overall - I would trade the two #1s and throw in something substantial like two #3s next year.

3. #4 overall - Same as above, except a little less garnish.

4. #5 overall - only doable if their guy is still there. And it should only requires the two #1s for this year.

5. If the top guys they want are more than the above, I pick Penix at 11.

Reasoning... if QB needy teams want to trade out, they know they are in position to ruin that QB with total crap around him. This puts MN as the preferred spot for most QBs coming in and I bet their agents and such will push them to trade.

You aren’t getting into the top 5 without giving up 3-1sts

I disagree on trading to #5.
Part of the reason why any of the Top 3 or AZ can claim a premium is the thought that they are passing up the opportunity to draft a franchise QB or the best WR prospect of this generation.

That's not the case with the Chargers. There's no generationally great prospects, there's just average year level prospects.
It actually makes sense for them to trade down, which greatly impacts their negotiating position. Now it's just about commensurate value.
11 and 23 is completely commensurate value, especially considering no other team that could be in competition to trade up, has two firsts this year to match.

Maybe pepper in a mid round pick this year or a 3rd next year to seal, but no way that you should have to pay 3 firsts to get up to 5.
You should easily be able to call that bluff.

100%

[-VikingsTw-]

If I was the Chargers I would just do that. Imagine getting the RT from Oregon State then drafting Graham Barton @23.

Insta best Oline in the NFL. That's assuming Zion Johnson is living up to last years draft reputation. That's a nasty Offensive Line.

Then you take full advantage of the WR depth in the draft and swing hard on defense. Damn nice to have a QB in place.

Kirk really helped the Vikings focus on building around the QB, that's why they have the offensive pieces they have. They weren't scrambling around trading a boat load of draft capital for a QB.

[cunningham]

If I was the Chargers I would just do that. Imagine getting the RT from Oregon State then drafting Graham Barton @23.

Insta best Oline in the NFL. That's assuming Zion Johnson is living up to last years draft reputation. That's a nasty Offensive Line.

Then you take full advantage of the WR depth in the draft and swing hard on defense. Damn nice to have a QB in place.

Kirk really helped the Vikings focus on building around the QB, that's why they have the offensive pieces they have. They weren't scrambling around trading a boat load of draft capital for a QB.

So the whole thing depends on a guy who didn’t get a job here?

Why do I feel like Harbaugh would do whatever would be the worst thing for this organization?

[-VikingsTw-]

If I was the Chargers I would just do that. Imagine getting the RT from Oregon State then drafting Graham Barton @23.

Insta best Oline in the NFL. That's assuming Zion Johnson is living up to last years draft reputation. That's a nasty Offensive Line.

Then you take full advantage of the WR depth in the draft and swing hard on defense. Damn nice to have a QB in place.

Kirk really helped the Vikings focus on building around the QB, that's why they have the offensive pieces they have. They weren't scrambling around trading a boat load of draft capital for a QB.

So the whole thing depends on a guy who didn’t get a job here?

Why do I feel like Harbaugh would do whatever would be the worst thing for this organization?

Nah I'm just saying it's a great deal for Harbaugh.

He might pass on some super talented offensive weapons but he's over here foaming at the mouth to build the best Oline in the NFL and has a Pro Bowl QB on the roster.

[Abe Froman]

I want us to take McCarthy or Daniels for the upside. I'm okay with Maye. I'm warming up to Penix, but the injuries do concern me. I'm intrigued by the notion of rolling the dice with Rattler and using the firsts we have on other positions or assets. Nix just doesn't do much for me. I think he could become a decent starter in the NFL, but we need more than decent. Caleb will be gone.

[Small Hands]

I want us to take McCarthy or Daniels for the upside. I'm okay with Maye. I'm warming up to Penix, but the injuries do concern me. I'm intrigued by the notion of rolling the dice with Rattler and using the firsts we have on other positions or assets. Nix just doesn't do much for me. I think he could become a decent starter in the NFL, but we need more than decent. Caleb will be gone.

If we pass on Nix, Ol fish lips Sean Payton will be smiling all the way to the bank.

[Abe Froman]

I want us to take McCarthy or Daniels for the upside. I'm okay with Maye. I'm warming up to Penix, but the injuries do concern me. I'm intrigued by the notion of rolling the dice with Rattler and using the firsts we have on other positions or assets. Nix just doesn't do much for me. I think he could become a decent starter in the NFL, but we need more than decent. Caleb will be gone.

If we pass on Nix, Ol fish lips Sean Payton will be smiling all the way to the bank.

I really hope so. He's gonna take someone, I would much rather he take Nix than Penix

[mlhouse]

If I was the Chargers I would just do that. Imagine getting the RT from Oregon State then drafting Graham Barton @23.

Insta best Oline in the NFL. That's assuming Zion Johnson is living up to last years draft reputation. That's a nasty Offensive Line.

Then you take full advantage of the WR depth in the draft and swing hard on defense. Damn nice to have a QB in place.

Kirk really helped the Vikings focus on building around the QB, that's why they have the offensive pieces they have. They weren't scrambling around trading a boat load of draft capital for a QB.

I have never been impressed with Graham Barton. Maybe because at Duke he played out of position as a LT for the Blue Devils, but all I saw was a guy who committed holding every other play.

[-VikingsTw-]

Maybe that's why he blocks so well...

I did not watch all his tape he just looked the part and had position versatility. Alot of people really like him. I like Powers Johnson too but there is no chance he could fill in at Tackle.

[Mnwild1128]

I am like most of you. Or we have all kind of been led to back up what the team is putting out there.

For Maye we give up 3 #1s. For JJ we maybe give up the 2 #1s. Anyone else we were dumb to trade for two first round picks and the GM should be questioned.

Maye has a lot of hype and hope around him. Seems like he is KOC's favorite. JJ is the consolation prize and needs a lot to be what KOC would need him to be. Penix or Nix are above Hall, but really not worth a first round pick.

We are up against a rock and a hard place this year. Everyone knows Darnold isn't the guy, even though we all would love to have him step up and become the guy. On a 1 year deal if we were to trade up and Darnold got good we would be in a tough spot.



Nix and Penix will go in round 1. Some have the Rams taking Nix in round 1.

Anyone have ESPN that can post Kiper's latest mock? The paywall is $10.99 and I don't believe in him enough to pay money for his mock.

This is what happens when you are mediocre year after year and some here root for that.

If they knew this was the year they wanted a QB in the draft, they should have traded Cousins last offseason along with Hunter like some of us suggested. Imagine where we would be drafting and the picks we would have. But no, lets make sure to win 7 or so games, still suck and trade the farm for the consolation prize QB. There’s a reason we have never won a championship.

In my life this feels like the only year we have actually had a legit shot at a blue chip quarterback in the draft. And we might end up with Ponder again.

I never wanted Cousins and I believe he cost Zimmer his job as well as Rick. Although, Rick sucked at the quarterback position and we all have PTRD (Post Traumatic Rick Disorder) at this point. A first round pick for Sam Bradford.. WTF? We could have sucked that year and the back up, I can't remember his name, was decent. Bradford had serious issues and was gonna be cut by Philly... Let alone Ponder, Freeman, Webb, and other horse-spit Rick put on this team. To me it was obvious when we played Washington and Keenum matched him that it would foolish to overpay him.

But we ended up make Kirk Cousins one of the highest paid players in NFL history. For what? Look where we are now.

We needed a better long term plan at quarterback, but we for way too long have been shortsighted. Going back to the last century. Drafting Cullpepper was probably the last decent move this team made in the draft at quarterback, but half the fans were not even alive back then.

So we have a gun to our head and the top 3 teams all need quarterbacks. So we will overpay and end up with a Lance or Darnold probably. It sucks. Even Maye is overhyped and not at all worth 3 first round picks. JJ shouldn't go before our pick, but the hype on him is insane right now.

We could have stayed pat and taken Nix. We'd have a lot of our picks and a quarterback to learn behind Darnold.

But, I'll be happy if we just have a prospect at the position for once. Maye would be the highest we've ever picked a quarterback if we get him at 3. Might as well take a shot for once!

Joe Burrow & Andrew Luck are Blue chip QB's. This draft does not have a blue chip QB. MHJ and Nabers are actually the two blue chippers in this draft. Getting pushed down by a position more coveted.

[-VikingsTw-]

I'm not gonna profess to know that much about Caleb Williams but I think he's widely regarded as a blue chip prospect.

The interesting thing about Joe Burrow is kinda the interesting thing about Jayden Daniels. Late bloomers in their college careers. Bo Nix as well coming off a monster season where he started to put it altogether the last two years.

That's the interesting part of projecting guys like Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy. Being like 21 years old if these guys put in the work and get with the right team their gonna be really good. They are 2 or 3 years behind some of these other guys.

[Tommy_Hawk]

I'm not gonna profess to know that much about Caleb Williams but I think he's widely regarded as a blue chip prospect.

The interesting thing about Joe Burrow is kinda the interesting thing about Jayden Daniels. Late bloomers in their college careers. Bo Nix as well coming off a monster season where he started to put it altogether the last two years.

That's the interesting part of projecting guys like Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy. Being like 21 years old if these guys put in the work and get with the right team their gonna be really good. They are 2 or 3 years behind some of these other guys.

So what's most important for their growth and development–Weapons, Oline or Coaching?

[-VikingsTw-]

I'm not gonna profess to know that much about Caleb Williams but I think he's widely regarded as a blue chip prospect.

The interesting thing about Joe Burrow is kinda the interesting thing about Jayden Daniels. Late bloomers in their college careers. Bo Nix as well coming off a monster season where he started to put it altogether the last two years.

That's the interesting part of projecting guys like Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy. Being like 21 years old if these guys put in the work and get with the right team their gonna be really good. They are 2 or 3 years behind some of these other guys.

So what's most important for their growth and development–Weapons, Oline or Coaching?

That's hard to say, they're all very important but if you have a bad Oline it's gonna make life really hard.

QB's can help make an Oline better but you gotta have balance with the run game so your not one dimensional and Play Action is more effective.

[minnemike]

I'm not gonna profess to know that much about Caleb Williams but I think he's widely regarded as a blue chip prospect.

The interesting thing about Joe Burrow is kinda the interesting thing about Jayden Daniels. Late bloomers in their college careers. Bo Nix as well coming off a monster season where he started to put it altogether the last two years.

That's the interesting part of projecting guys like Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy. Being like 21 years old if these guys put in the work and get with the right team their gonna be really good. They are 2 or 3 years behind some of these other guys.

So what's most important for their growth and development–Weapons, Oline or Coaching?

That's hard to say, they're all very important but if you have a bad Oline it's gonna make life really hard.

QB's can help make an Oline better but you gotta have balance with the run game so your not one dimensional and Play Action is more effective.

MN has all 3, plus a running game if you think Jones flips that thing.

This is why I think MN has some leverage with getting these rookie agents on board to push for a decent trade deal. Pressure could mount if they are not going to be happy in some crap situation. We are already getting hints this is happening with even Daniels. Would that make WAS skip him and NE want to trade badly?

[Beetlejuice]

How do the top 5 (JJ and Penix) compare to last year's prospects? It's as if Levis would go Top-5 this year because of the QB needy teams. However, is that just pre draft hype about this year's guys and the draft will unfold similar to last year? Is Daniels this years Richardson? Will teams reach more because the need is higher when normally a guy like that falls down?

I'm almost more intrigued by how the entire draft pans out, versus what the Vikings will do. If one of your two guys are at 4 and you want to make a move, I support it. If he isn't, the idea of reaching bums me out. Stand pat with Darnold and draft some BPA's at 11 and 23.

Here’s how I would compare the two QB classes
Williams
Maye
Daniels
Young
Stroud
Richardson
JJ
Penix
Levis
Nix

No clue what this means. If it’s a negative, GFY.