Those guys don’t grow on trees. They let two of them go last week.
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My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Greenard is already double digits, so you’d just have to find another pass rusher that can feed off of lesser competition.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:12 amThose guys don’t grow on trees. They let two of them go last week.
But asking Van Ginkel to just become that is probably setting him up for failure.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
I don’t think they are going to ask that of Van Ginkel. He is a Flores system guy. He’s an average pass rusher and a disrupter. They are going to have to make up for losses by committee. Greenard is the sack specialist and the rest is going to be by committee. Losing Wonnum was far more significant than some rubes in here think. I think they are going to take a step backwards from last year defensively. Unless, they address the CB position somehow. Whether it’s a trade or taking one at 11, I don’t care. They cannot be okay with what we have. Goff and Love picked them apart last year.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:15 amGreenard is already double digits, so you’d just have to find another pass rusher that can feed off of lesser competition.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:12 amThose guys don’t grow on trees. They let two of them go last week.
But asking Van Ginkel to just become that is probably setting him up for failure.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Committee doesn't work long term. You could tell with us, by the end of the year our defense was gassed.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:26 amI don’t think they are going to ask that of Van Ginkel. He is a Flores system guy. He’s an average pass rusher and a disrupter. They are going to have to make up for losses by committee. Greenard is the sack specialist and the rest is going to be by committee. Losing Wonnum was far more significant than some rubes in here think. I think they are going to take a step backwards from last year defensively. Unless, they address the CB position somehow. Whether it’s a trade or taking one at 11, I don’t care. They cannot be okay with what we have. Goff and Love picked them apart last year.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:15 amGreenard is already double digits, so you’d just have to find another pass rusher that can feed off of lesser competition.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:12 am
Those guys don’t grow on trees. They let two of them go last week.
But asking Van Ginkel to just become that is probably setting him up for failure.
Committe may have worked in NE (where Flores came from), but that's not always transferrable when you don't have Brady and Belichick on the other side, because they impact the game so much and give the defense advantageous situations.
It may not happen this year because we are probably using our firsts towards the QB, but at some point before we can become a serious championship contender, they will need to find another great defensive player.
It's a good thing we have $100M in cap space next year.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Flores best year in Miami was 2020. That year the dolphins were the 6th best defense in points against.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:15 amGreenard is already double digits, so you’d just have to find another pass rusher that can feed off of lesser competition.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:12 amThose guys don’t grow on trees. They let two of them go last week.
But asking Van Ginkel to just become that is probably setting him up for failure.
That year, they didn’t have a single player with 10 or more sacks, despite being tied for 10th in the league with 41 sacks.
In 2021 again no player had 10 sacks or more and the team was tied for 5th in the league with 48 sacks.
His crazy blitzing scheme seems to spread the wealth around. Maybe we don’t need a couple 10+ sack guys. Maybe we need 4 or 5 that can get 6-8 sacks.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Would be nice to get one on the cheap as a rookie but as you alluded to, next year cap space gives them pole position to sign a stud.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:34 amCommittee doesn't work long term. You could tell with us, by the end of the year our defense was gassed.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:26 amI don’t think they are going to ask that of Van Ginkel. He is a Flores system guy. He’s an average pass rusher and a disrupter. They are going to have to make up for losses by committee. Greenard is the sack specialist and the rest is going to be by committee. Losing Wonnum was far more significant than some rubes in here think. I think they are going to take a step backwards from last year defensively. Unless, they address the CB position somehow. Whether it’s a trade or taking one at 11, I don’t care. They cannot be okay with what we have. Goff and Love picked them apart last year.
Committe may have worked in NE (where Flores came from), but that's not always transferrable when you don't have Brady and Belichick on the other side, because they impact the game so much and give the defense advantageous situations.
It may not happen this year because we are probably using our firsts towards the QB, but at some point before we can become a serious championship contender, they will need to find another great defensive player.
It's a good thing we have $100M in cap space next year.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Fair enough.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:36 amFlores best year in Miami was 2020. That year the dolphins were the 6th best defense in points against.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:15 amGreenard is already double digits, so you’d just have to find another pass rusher that can feed off of lesser competition.Small Hands wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:12 am
Those guys don’t grow on trees. They let two of them go last week.
But asking Van Ginkel to just become that is probably setting him up for failure.
That year, they didn’t have a single player with 10 or more sacks, despite being tied for 10th in the league with 41 sacks.
In 2021 again no player had 10 sacks or more and the team was tied for 5th in the league with 48 sacks.
His crazy blitzing scheme seems to spread the wealth around. Maybe we don’t need a couple 10+ sack guys. Maybe we need 4 or 5 that can get 6-8 sacks.
Getting 4-5 guys that can get to 6-8 sacks is still "expensive" though, and can take years to get to.
It probably costs multiple mid round picks over multiple drafts, and that presumes that you're developing those guys at a higher than normal percentage.
And then routinely being able to have new guys ready to come in, because you probably don't want to sign these guys to their 2nd contract.
Ultimately, I've said on here many times though, that if you're good at your job, then there's tons of ways to win.
If you're routinely developing mid round guys at any position, then you'll have a window.
But, there's also something to be said for using the strengths of your defensive coordinator, and applying them to a top rated prospect and having them become an absolute monster. The Pats still at various points had guys like that in Wilfork, Chandler Jones and Seymour, and Wilkins kinda became that eventually in Miami after Flores was let go.
This whole hypothetical was based on a world where we were not using the first round picks to move up for a QB, so if that was the case, then there could be something said for taking Verse or Latu at 11. That guy (even if they're not a Parsons level individual talent) would still be in position to hit his personal peak when paired with Flores and a tandem of Greenard/Van Ginkel, and you could probably get some level of return immediately.
Ultimately though, just do your jobs and draft/develop consistently, and you can do anything.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
- Beef Supreme
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Verse, Turner, or Latu would all be good choices at 11 in this draft if we’re stuck there and the top-4 QBs were gone. They’re all good prospects. The point is that the top-end strength of this draft is at QB, OT, and WR. Of those positions, we have a dire need at QB and not much need at the other 2. So Verse at 11 is logical and defensible and he’s a good prospect that would help. But after the top-8 or so picks (depending on your evaluation of guys like Bowers and Newton), this draft plateaus quickly.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:54 amFair enough.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:36 amFlores best year in Miami was 2020. That year the dolphins were the 6th best defense in points against.
That year, they didn’t have a single player with 10 or more sacks, despite being tied for 10th in the league with 41 sacks.
In 2021 again no player had 10 sacks or more and the team was tied for 5th in the league with 48 sacks.
His crazy blitzing scheme seems to spread the wealth around. Maybe we don’t need a couple 10+ sack guys. Maybe we need 4 or 5 that can get 6-8 sacks.
Getting 4-5 guys that can get to 6-8 sacks is still "expensive" though, and can take years to get to.
It probably costs multiple mid round picks over multiple drafts, and that presumes that you're developing those guys at a higher than normal percentage.
And then routinely being able to have new guys ready to come in, because you probably don't want to sign these guys to their 2nd contract.
Ultimately, I've said on here many times though, that if you're good at your job, then there's tons of ways to win.
If you're routinely developing mid round guys at any position, then you'll have a window.
But, there's also something to be said for using the strengths of your defensive coordinator, and applying them to a top rated prospect and having them become an absolute monster. The Pats still at various points had guys like that in Wilfork, Chandler Jones and Seymour, and Wilkins kinda became that eventually in Miami after Flores was let go.
This whole hypothetical was based on a world where we were not using the first round picks to move up for a QB, so if that was the case, then there could be something said for taking Verse or Latu at 11. That guy (even if they're not a Parsons level individual talent) would still be in position to hit his personal peak when paired with Flores and a tandem of Greenard/Van Ginkel, and you could probably get some level of return immediately.
Ultimately though, just do your jobs and draft/develop consistently, and you can do anything.
But the overall point is true. Building a championship roster is hard. There are many different ways to do it, but none of them are easy. So the fact that a path is hard is not a reason not to try it. It’s all hard. The hard is what makes it great.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
And this whole side convo was based on a premise that the Hou trade could have been done as a means of taking someone else at 11 and then getting your QB with the other #1 pick.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:07 amVerse, Turner, or Latu would all be good choices at 11 in this draft if we’re stuck there and the top-4 QBs were gone. They’re all good prospects. The point is that the top-end strength of this draft is at QB, OT, and WR. Of those positions, we have a dire need at QB and not much need at the other 2. So Verse at 11 is logical and defensible and he’s a good prospect that would help. But after the top-8 or so picks (depending on your evaluation of guys like Bowers and Newton), this draft plateaus quickly.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:54 amFair enough.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:36 am
Flores best year in Miami was 2020. That year the dolphins were the 6th best defense in points against.
That year, they didn’t have a single player with 10 or more sacks, despite being tied for 10th in the league with 41 sacks.
In 2021 again no player had 10 sacks or more and the team was tied for 5th in the league with 48 sacks.
His crazy blitzing scheme seems to spread the wealth around. Maybe we don’t need a couple 10+ sack guys. Maybe we need 4 or 5 that can get 6-8 sacks.
Getting 4-5 guys that can get to 6-8 sacks is still "expensive" though, and can take years to get to.
It probably costs multiple mid round picks over multiple drafts, and that presumes that you're developing those guys at a higher than normal percentage.
And then routinely being able to have new guys ready to come in, because you probably don't want to sign these guys to their 2nd contract.
Ultimately, I've said on here many times though, that if you're good at your job, then there's tons of ways to win.
If you're routinely developing mid round guys at any position, then you'll have a window.
But, there's also something to be said for using the strengths of your defensive coordinator, and applying them to a top rated prospect and having them become an absolute monster. The Pats still at various points had guys like that in Wilfork, Chandler Jones and Seymour, and Wilkins kinda became that eventually in Miami after Flores was let go.
This whole hypothetical was based on a world where we were not using the first round picks to move up for a QB, so if that was the case, then there could be something said for taking Verse or Latu at 11. That guy (even if they're not a Parsons level individual talent) would still be in position to hit his personal peak when paired with Flores and a tandem of Greenard/Van Ginkel, and you could probably get some level of return immediately.
Ultimately though, just do your jobs and draft/develop consistently, and you can do anything.
But the overall point is true. Building a championship roster is hard. There are many different ways to do it, but none of them are easy. So the fact that a path is hard is not a reason not to try it. It’s all hard. The hard is what makes it great.
I don't think that was the point of the trade and I do think that QB is the eventual target. But this just made for a fun side convo.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Sure.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:09 amAnd this whole side convo was based on a premise that the Hou trade could have been done as a means of taking someone else at 11 and then getting your QB with the other #1 pick.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:07 amVerse, Turner, or Latu would all be good choices at 11 in this draft if we’re stuck there and the top-4 QBs were gone. They’re all good prospects. The point is that the top-end strength of this draft is at QB, OT, and WR. Of those positions, we have a dire need at QB and not much need at the other 2. So Verse at 11 is logical and defensible and he’s a good prospect that would help. But after the top-8 or so picks (depending on your evaluation of guys like Bowers and Newton), this draft plateaus quickly.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:54 am
Fair enough.
Getting 4-5 guys that can get to 6-8 sacks is still "expensive" though, and can take years to get to.
It probably costs multiple mid round picks over multiple drafts, and that presumes that you're developing those guys at a higher than normal percentage.
And then routinely being able to have new guys ready to come in, because you probably don't want to sign these guys to their 2nd contract.
Ultimately, I've said on here many times though, that if you're good at your job, then there's tons of ways to win.
If you're routinely developing mid round guys at any position, then you'll have a window.
But, there's also something to be said for using the strengths of your defensive coordinator, and applying them to a top rated prospect and having them become an absolute monster. The Pats still at various points had guys like that in Wilfork, Chandler Jones and Seymour, and Wilkins kinda became that eventually in Miami after Flores was let go.
This whole hypothetical was based on a world where we were not using the first round picks to move up for a QB, so if that was the case, then there could be something said for taking Verse or Latu at 11. That guy (even if they're not a Parsons level individual talent) would still be in position to hit his personal peak when paired with Flores and a tandem of Greenard/Van Ginkel, and you could probably get some level of return immediately.
Ultimately though, just do your jobs and draft/develop consistently, and you can do anything.
But the overall point is true. Building a championship roster is hard. There are many different ways to do it, but none of them are easy. So the fact that a path is hard is not a reason not to try it. It’s all hard. The hard is what makes it great.
I don't think that was the point of the trade and I do think that QB is the eventual target. But this just made for a fun side convo.
Turner/Verse/Newton and Nix/Penix could happen and might work out well when it’s all said and done. But I doubt that’s the goal.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
interesting. any idea on what they're basing this rumor on?Señor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
I feel like a 3 way trade makes the most sense.Señor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
If I'm AZ, I don't want to give up my shot at getting Marvin Harrison Jr, so I wouldn't trade down to 11 even if people want to tell me that its a deep WR draft.
However...
MN: gets 4
AZ: gets 5 in a modest trade down, but guaantees that they can still get Harrison
LAC: get the bigger haul and move down to 11, where they still have a good chance at getting Bowers.
That makes the most sense to me.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Certainly, a possibility. I had not been thinking about multiple teams being involved in a trade/pick swap.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:42 amI feel like a 3 way trade makes the most sense.Señor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
If I'm AZ, I don't want to give up my shot at getting Marvin Harrison Jr, so I wouldn't trade down to 11 even if people want to tell me that its a deep WR draft.
However...
MN: gets 4
AZ: gets 5 in a modest trade down, but guaantees that they can still get Harrison
LAC: get the bigger haul and move down to 11, where they still have a good chance at getting Bowers.
That makes the most sense to me.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
the giants in play complicates things. vikings just might want to get to four to be sure. the KOC/kwesi difference in opinion is what's real interesting though. any fire to that smoke?Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:42 amI feel like a 3 way trade makes the most sense.Señor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
If I'm AZ, I don't want to give up my shot at getting Marvin Harrison Jr, so I wouldn't trade down to 11 even if people want to tell me that its a deep WR draft.
However...
MN: gets 4
AZ: gets 5 in a modest trade down, but guaantees that they can still get Harrison
LAC: get the bigger haul and move down to 11, where they still have a good chance at getting Bowers.
That makes the most sense to me.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
If we agree to these terms with AZ and LA, then the Giants angle would be moot.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:50 amthe giants in play complicates things. vikings just might want to get to four to be sure. the KOC/kwesi difference in opinion is what's real interesting though. any fire to that smoke?Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:42 amI feel like a 3 way trade makes the most sense.Señor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
If I'm AZ, I don't want to give up my shot at getting Marvin Harrison Jr, so I wouldn't trade down to 11 even if people want to tell me that its a deep WR draft.
However...
MN: gets 4
AZ: gets 5 in a modest trade down, but guaantees that they can still get Harrison
LAC: get the bigger haul and move down to 11, where they still have a good chance at getting Bowers.
That makes the most sense to me.
If AZ instead did the trade down with the Giants, then they probably still lose out on Harrison, as the Chargers would run to the podium to take him.
So AZ would have to feel that lesser trade comp but paired with Harrison, is still better than more trade comp but with having to settle for their choice of Nabers or Odunze.
Considering many still have Harrison as the #1 player in the draft, I think its very reasonable to presume that AZ would be interested in that.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
i don't think the cardinals would trade with the giants--but you never know. they'd definitely be able to get a wide receiver at six.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:59 amIf we agree to these terms with AZ and LA, then the Giants angle would be moot.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:50 amthe giants in play complicates things. vikings just might want to get to four to be sure. the KOC/kwesi difference in opinion is what's real interesting though. any fire to that smoke?Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:42 am
I feel like a 3 way trade makes the most sense.
If I'm AZ, I don't want to give up my shot at getting Marvin Harrison Jr, so I wouldn't trade down to 11 even if people want to tell me that its a deep WR draft.
However...
MN: gets 4
AZ: gets 5 in a modest trade down, but guaantees that they can still get Harrison
LAC: get the bigger haul and move down to 11, where they still have a good chance at getting Bowers.
That makes the most sense to me.
If AZ instead did the trade down with the Giants, then they probably still lose out on Harrison, as the Chargers would run to the podium to take him.
So AZ would have to feel that lesser trade comp but paired with Harrison, is still better than more trade comp but with having to settle for their choice of Nabers or Odunze.
Considering many still have Harrison as the #1 player in the draft, I think its very reasonable to presume that AZ would be interested in that.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
of course harrison would be the vikings consolation prize if they just made a trade with the chargers and the giants did move up to four to get a QB.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Getting A WR is not the same as getting Harrison.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:02 ami don't think the cardinals would trade with the giants--but you never know. they'd definitely be able to get a wide receiver at six.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:59 amIf we agree to these terms with AZ and LA, then the Giants angle would be moot.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:50 am
the giants in play complicates things. vikings just might want to get to four to be sure. the KOC/kwesi difference in opinion is what's real interesting though. any fire to that smoke?
If AZ instead did the trade down with the Giants, then they probably still lose out on Harrison, as the Chargers would run to the podium to take him.
So AZ would have to feel that lesser trade comp but paired with Harrison, is still better than more trade comp but with having to settle for their choice of Nabers or Odunze.
Considering many still have Harrison as the #1 player in the draft, I think its very reasonable to presume that AZ would be interested in that.
Plus, AZ already has two 1st rd picks and 7 in the Top 100(ish), so they're not at a shortage of picks.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
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A Iverson, K Irving
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D Wilkins, B Bowen
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
It will be a draft day trade if the intended partner is AZ or LAC.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:03 am of course harrison would be the vikings consolation prize if they just made a trade with the chargers and the giants did move up to four to get a QB.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
One thing to take into account is how recently some of these teams have taken 1st round quarterbacks. NE just took Mac Jones at #10 in 2021. Taking the 3rd best quarterback might not be as tempting as trading down. Giants took Jones at #6 in 2019.
Maybe I am just influenced by our lack of drafting quarterbacks, but it seems really soon to be taking one in NE and fairly soon for the Giants.
Everyone has the Giants taking JJ in their mocks. They pick #6.
Maybe I am just influenced by our lack of drafting quarterbacks, but it seems really soon to be taking one in NE and fairly soon for the Giants.
Everyone has the Giants taking JJ in their mocks. They pick #6.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Different front offices and coaching staffscunningham wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:39 am One thing to take into account is how recently some of these teams have taken 1st round quarterbacks. NE just took Mac Jones at #10 in 2021. Taking the 3rd best quarterback might not be as tempting as trading down. Giants took Jones at #6 in 2019.
Maybe I am just influenced by our lack of drafting quarterbacks, but it seems really soon to be taking one in NE and fairly soon for the Giants.
Everyone has the Giants taking JJ in their mocks. They pick #6.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Just curious, but why did this need its own thread. BB looking for attention?
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
There is a big risk, not sure how sizable, that the 2024 NFL draft goes Williams-Daniels-Maye-McCarthy, in whatever order 1-4, and the Minnesota Vikings are not a team that made any of those selections.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:03 am of course harrison would be the vikings consolation prize if they just made a trade with the chargers and the giants did move up to four to get a QB.
I doubt that the Vikings make the trade up before the draft commences, which does not mean they do not have a deal in place. That is like giving your vote count in a Texas election before your opponent or the Wolves making the draft trade before it started in 2019 to take Jarrett Culver. Unless they are complete morons, a condition that has not been fully adjudicated, they will have a contingency in their negotiations to make sure the player they want is available.
Obviously, as you state, the Giants would be the team making the move to 4 ahead of Minnesota and the Cardinals might be more interested in trading down to 6 than 11. The floor for Harrison is the Chargers at 5. It is interesting that both the Cardinals and the Chargers basically dumped all of their existing wide receivers and both have good qbs with massive contracts.
If I were the GMs of the top 4 teams in the draft, and while there is a price for everything, there isn't a trade that can get me off my pick.
If I am the Bears, especially the Bears owner, there is no way in the world I am not taking Caleb WIlliams. The guy already is worth millions of dollars as a college player based on endorsements, he is going to bring the fans back to your franchise win or lose. The Bears, CommnaderSkins and Patriots both have huge QB needs and shipped out their failed existing quarterbacks (although Howell wasn't a top draft choice which might make the claim "failed" a bit rich). Why mess around when you are sitting right there.
And similar to the Bears, I think the Cardinals would be dumb to trade out of #4 and Marvin Harrison Jr. This guy is going to bring some excitement to the franchise, a legitimate NFL prodigy that can team up with your now questionable former #1 overall pick Kyler Murray and revive the team in the desert. There is an argument to be made that Harrison is the absolute best player in this draft, he has the sexiness of the Harrison name, and this is what gets people excited about your team, not offensive linemen or defensive backs.
This is an unusual top of the first round because although the QB depth in the draft is unusually solid, there could be a situation were there isn't an opening in the top of the draft to move into and if there is an opening, there are a bunch of other competitors vying to move ahead of you.
I do have to assume that they made the Houston trade with a purpose, but it is far from clear.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Joe Klatt has the following:Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:40 amDifferent front offices and coaching staffscunningham wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:39 am One thing to take into account is how recently some of these teams have taken 1st round quarterbacks. NE just took Mac Jones at #10 in 2021. Taking the 3rd best quarterback might not be as tempting as trading down. Giants took Jones at #6 in 2019.
Maybe I am just influenced by our lack of drafting quarterbacks, but it seems really soon to be taking one in NE and fairly soon for the Giants.
Everyone has the Giants taking JJ in their mocks. They pick #6.
1. Chicago - Calleb WIlliams
2. Washington - Drake Maye
3. NE - Jayden Daniels
4. AZ - Marvin Harrison JR.
5. MN - JJ McCarthy
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsfKRW3gfak&t=1362s[/media]
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
William Munny wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:41 amJoe Klatt has the following:Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:40 amDifferent front offices and coaching staffscunningham wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:39 am One thing to take into account is how recently some of these teams have taken 1st round quarterbacks. NE just took Mac Jones at #10 in 2021. Taking the 3rd best quarterback might not be as tempting as trading down. Giants took Jones at #6 in 2019.
Maybe I am just influenced by our lack of drafting quarterbacks, but it seems really soon to be taking one in NE and fairly soon for the Giants.
Everyone has the Giants taking JJ in their mocks. They pick #6.
1. Chicago - Calleb WIlliams
2. Washington - Drake Maye
3. NE - Jayden Daniels
4. AZ - Marvin Harrison JR.
5. MN - JJ McCarthy
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsfKRW3gfak&t=1362s[/media]
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this should work. you just need to use youtube and take the s out of the https.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
Thank you.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:53 amWilliam Munny wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:41 amJoe Klatt has the following:
1. Chicago - Calleb WIlliams
2. Washington - Drake Maye
3. NE - Jayden Daniels
4. AZ - Marvin Harrison JR.
5. MN - JJ McCarthy
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsfKRW3gfak&t=1362s[/media]
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this should work. you just need to use youtube and take the s out of the https.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
OuchWilliam Munny wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:10 pmThank you.weimy froob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:53 amWilliam Munny wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:41 am
Joe Klatt has the following:
1. Chicago - Calleb WIlliams
2. Washington - Drake Maye
3. NE - Jayden Daniels
4. AZ - Marvin Harrison JR.
5. MN - JJ McCarthy
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsfKRW3gfak&t=1362s[/media]
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this should work. you just need to use youtube and take the s out of the https.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
We might need you in the war room or draft room or whatever they call it to get this thing worked out.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:42 amI feel like a 3 way trade makes the most sense.Señor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
If I'm AZ, I don't want to give up my shot at getting Marvin Harrison Jr, so I wouldn't trade down to 11 even if people want to tell me that its a deep WR draft.
However...
MN: gets 4
AZ: gets 5 in a modest trade down, but guaantees that they can still get Harrison
LAC: get the bigger haul and move down to 11, where they still have a good chance at getting Bowers.
That makes the most sense to me.
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Re: My prediction? Vikings trade up and draft J.J. McCarthy
BSSeñor Trumpo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 8:53 am I heard a rumor on one of the Viking pundits Youtube channels over the weekend is that Kwesi loves Drake Maye and KOC loves JJ McCarthy. This is going to come down to the pro-days, interviews and top 30 visits to decide which one it will be. It sounds like they can take JJ McCarthy in a trade with AZ and probably not give up an additional 1st in 2025 but probably another 3rd. If they trade up with New England or Washington for Drake Maye then a 2025 1st and more would have to be included.
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