Much to the dismay of a large portion of Draft Twitter (sorry, Elon -- Draft X sounds weird), McCarthy appears destined to be a top-10 pick. Skeptics understandably bemoan the relative scarcity of pure pocket passing J.J. put on display in Michigan’s run-first offense, but the 21-year-old did showcase the kind of athleticism that could play quite well in Kevin O’Connell’s play-action/bootleg scheme.
weimy froob wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:10 am
if that's the guy they want i'd feel better if they got to #5 to make sure they don't get sniped.
You're probably right about that weimy.
Denver seems to be the most likely to move up with Sean Payton wanting HIS own QB.
Danny Barreiro has said numerous times recently that you need to LOVE any QB that you pick and if you need to move up to do it then you do. But if you only LIKE a particular QB and pick him to just fill a need then you are looking for trouble. If KOC and Qwesi LOVE JJ McCarthy then you do what you need to do to get him in Minny. (or Penix, or Nix for that matter)
***THE REAL HORNETS HAS THOUSANDS OF POSTS and joined RC October 4, 2017!***
weimy froob wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:10 am
if that's the guy they want i'd feel better if they got to #5 to make sure they don't get sniped.
You're probably right about that weimy.
Denver seems to be the most likely to move up with Sean Payton wanting HIS own QB.
Danny Barreiro has said numerous times recently that you need to LOVE any QB that you pick and if you need to move up to do it then you do. But if you only LIKE a particular QB and pick him to just fill a need then you are looking for trouble. If KOC and Qwesi LOVE JJ McCarthy then you do what you need to do to get him in Minny. (or Penix, or Nix for that matter)
If they trade up for McCarthy then I am done and this would be the dumbest trade since Herschel Walker. McCarthy was not even good with Michigan he was average.
Denver seems to be the most likely to move up with Sean Payton wanting HIS own QB.
Danny Barreiro has said numerous times recently that you need to LOVE any QB that you pick and if you need to move up to do it then you do. But if you only LIKE a particular QB and pick him to just fill a need then you are looking for trouble. If KOC and Qwesi LOVE JJ McCarthy then you do what you need to do to get him in Minny. (or Penix, or Nix for that matter)
I agree.
And btw, I think KOC does love McCarthy.
My untrained QB eye has been in hyperdrive over the last month. At different times I have been on board for each of the 3 most often 2nd tier QBs of JJ, Penix, and Nix. I don't have a clue what's the best way to go and as a long suffering Viking fan I'm putting my trust in a guy named Qwesi!
***THE REAL HORNETS HAS THOUSANDS OF POSTS and joined RC October 4, 2017!***
McCarthy was pretty much a game manager behind a dominant offensive line in college. It’s looking like he’s being projected to be much more as a pro. Is potential the main reason?
Danny Barreiro has said numerous times recently that you need to LOVE any QB that you pick and if you need to move up to do it then you do. But if you only LIKE a particular QB and pick him to just fill a need then you are looking for trouble. If KOC and Qwesi LOVE JJ McCarthy then you do what you need to do to get him in Minny. (or Penix, or Nix for that matter)
I agree.
And btw, I think KOC does love McCarthy.
My untrained QB eye has been in hyperdrive over the last month. At different times I have been on board for each of the 3 most often 2nd tier QBs of JJ, Penix, and Nix. I don't have a clue what's the best way to go and as a long suffering Viking fan I'm putting my trust in a guy named Qwesi!
If Kwesi doesn't nail this FA and draft, I believe that he will NOT be retained or signed to a contract extension as GM.
witljon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:03 am
McCarthy was pretty much a game manager behind a dominant offensive line in college. It’s looking like he’s being projected to be much more as a pro. Is potential the main reason?
This is totally dumb take. McCarthy is far from a game manager skill wise. In fact, and I will have the McCarthy scout write up soon, JJ McCarthy has by far the best arm talent in the draft. That is why I compared him to Josh Allen. He has elite arm talent and mobility. The only reason why he is the QB3 or QB4 in this draft is that Caleb Williams has the potential to be a Patrick Mahomes playmaker in an NFL offense and Jayden Daniels has the ability to be an elite running QB who piles up 1000+ yards rushing like Lamar Jackson.
Then you can make an opinion on Drake Maye v. McCarthy. I think a lot of teams will love Maye more because of his prototypical size. I think the footwork problems Maye has that cause some inconsistency in Maye's accuracy and velocity can be fixed. He is a very good QB prospect. But I think McCarthy is as good, and perhaps a better prospect.
witljon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:03 am
McCarthy was pretty much a game manager behind a dominant offensive line in college. It’s looking like he’s being projected to be much more as a pro. Is potential the main reason?
This is totally dumb take. McCarthy is far from a game manager skill wise. In fact, and I will have the McCarthy scout write up soon, JJ McCarthy has by far the best arm talent in the draft. That is why I compared him to Josh Allen. He has elite arm talent and mobility. The only reason why he is the QB3 or QB4 in this draft is that Caleb Williams has the potential to be a Patrick Mahomes playmaker in an NFL offense and Jayden Daniels has the ability to be an elite running QB who piles up 1000+ yards rushing like Lamar Jackson.
Then you can make an opinion on Drake Maye v. McCarthy. I think a lot of teams will love Maye more because of his prototypical size. I think the footwork problems Maye has that cause some inconsistency in Maye's accuracy and velocity can be fixed. He is a very good QB prospect. But I think McCarthy is as good, and perhaps a better prospect.
I don’t have a problem if/when you disagree with me, but I think Drake Maye is a better prospect than JJ McCarthy. Just what games did you watch McCarthy where he impressed you as a great prospect?
witljon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:03 am
McCarthy was pretty much a game manager behind a dominant offensive line in college. It’s looking like he’s being projected to be much more as a pro. Is potential the main reason?
This is totally dumb take. McCarthy is far from a game manager skill wise. In fact, and I will have the McCarthy scout write up soon, JJ McCarthy has by far the best arm talent in the draft. That is why I compared him to Josh Allen. He has elite arm talent and mobility. The only reason why he is the QB3 or QB4 in this draft is that Caleb Williams has the potential to be a Patrick Mahomes playmaker in an NFL offense and Jayden Daniels has the ability to be an elite running QB who piles up 1000+ yards rushing like Lamar Jackson.
Then you can make an opinion on Drake Maye v. McCarthy. I think a lot of teams will love Maye more because of his prototypical size. I think the footwork problems Maye has that cause some inconsistency in Maye's accuracy and velocity can be fixed. He is a very good QB prospect. But I think McCarthy is as good, and perhaps a better prospect.
I don’t have a problem if/when you disagree with me, but I think Drake Maye is a better prospect than JJ McCarthy. Just what games did you watch McCarthy where he impressed you as a great prospect?
I have watched just about every McCarthy and Maye video available online. If you actually watch McCarthy and are not impressed by his elite arm talent then you must be watching some other video.
Again, some people are going to think Maye is a better prospect but this is mainly because of his prototypical size. I have them very close, with perhaps Maye slightly ranked higher but if I was an evaluator I still haven't decided if I can totally correct Maye's footwork. Sometimes you can tell if a QB is a bust very quickly, and Maye will be one of them. If he is late in his rookie career and still cannot get his feet set and throw with proper base and "all his cleats in the ground", I think his career will be modest at best. This causes him to miss on a lot more throws than he should.
I would want to correct some of McCarthy's footwork too, but they are more modest changes than what is required of Maye.
This is totally dumb take. McCarthy is far from a game manager skill wise. In fact, and I will have the McCarthy scout write up soon, JJ McCarthy has by far the best arm talent in the draft. That is why I compared him to Josh Allen. He has elite arm talent and mobility. The only reason why he is the QB3 or QB4 in this draft is that Caleb Williams has the potential to be a Patrick Mahomes playmaker in an NFL offense and Jayden Daniels has the ability to be an elite running QB who piles up 1000+ yards rushing like Lamar Jackson.
Then you can make an opinion on Drake Maye v. McCarthy. I think a lot of teams will love Maye more because of his prototypical size. I think the footwork problems Maye has that cause some inconsistency in Maye's accuracy and velocity can be fixed. He is a very good QB prospect. But I think McCarthy is as good, and perhaps a better prospect.
I don’t have a problem if/when you disagree with me, but I think Drake Maye is a better prospect than JJ McCarthy. Just what games did you watch McCarthy where he impressed you as a great prospect?
I have watched just about every McCarthy and Maye video available online. If you actually watch McCarthy and are not impressed by his elite arm talent then you must be watching some other video.
I have not watched any highlight videos, but I watched several Michigan games. I’m not sure how many. The games I remember, Gophers, Maryland, Washington, Alabama, Ohio State, and a little of Nebraska. He seemed to hand the ball off a lot. And you can talk about footwork all you want, I think getting the ball from point A to point B is more important.
If Russel Wilson is as cheap as he says he is, I think I would prefer getting JJ, signing Wilson (who I can't stand as a person) and start the rebuild.
Da Gas Man's Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:24 am
If Russel Wilson is as cheap as he says he is, I think I would prefer getting JJ, signing Wilson (who I can't stand as a person) and start the rebuild.
It would keep Jefferson happy enough.
It's definitely an intriguing thought, but COMPLETELY PREDICATED on the notion that he would be double digits millions per year less than Cousins. 6M less? No thanks.
I'm pretty sure he's getting the money that's due to him no matter what happens if they cut him, So maybe he's willing to sign for 20 million a year for 2 years with us just because of the circumstances and situation and know he's going to have the money anyway from Denver so who cares what we pay him. That would be what a smart and competitive player who wants to win and or wants to restore his legacy would do. That being said he could be that much of an arrogant dumb f*** that he wouldn't go that route. I don't know.
If cousins can be had for low 30s, that's ideal. If not and RW low to mid 20s I prob go that way.
Da Gas Man's Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:24 am
If Russel Wilson is as cheap as he says he is, I think I would prefer getting JJ, signing Wilson (who I can't stand as a person) and start the rebuild.
It would keep Jefferson happy enough.
It's definitely an intriguing thought, but COMPLETELY PREDICATED on the notion that he would be double digits millions per year less than Cousins. 6M less? No thanks.
I'm pretty sure he's getting the money that's due to him no matter what happens if they cut him, So maybe he's willing to sign for 20 million a year for 2 years with us just because of the circumstances and situation and know he's going to have the money anyway from Denver so who cares what we pay him. That would be what a smart and competitive player who wants to win and or wants to restore his legacy would do. That being said he could be that much of an arrogant dumb f*** that he wouldn't go that route. I don't know.
If cousins can be had for low 30s, that's ideal. If not and RW low to mid 20s I prob go that way.
The numbers for Wilson are ridiculously low. I agree that if he is anything close to Kirk, Kirk is better. The fundamental difference might be: Wilson could be a one year thing while Kirk will likely have enough guaranteed money that it would be for 2. Not the end of the world but how long should JJ sit?
I also think that Wilson has a more versatile game that would help JJ more than learning from Kirk. A passer who can use his legs to escape. Plus Wilson has that "it" factor as evidence by his SB win etc. I can't explain how he fell off so badly though.
Da Gas Man's Ghost wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:24 am
If Russel Wilson is as cheap as he says he is, I think I would prefer getting JJ, signing Wilson (who I can't stand as a person) and start the rebuild.
It would keep Jefferson happy enough.
It's definitely an intriguing thought, but COMPLETELY PREDICATED on the notion that he would be double digits millions per year less than Cousins. 6M less? No thanks.
I'm pretty sure he's getting the money that's due to him no matter what happens if they cut him, So maybe he's willing to sign for 20 million a year for 2 years with us just because of the circumstances and situation and know he's going to have the money anyway from Denver so who cares what we pay him. That would be what a smart and competitive player who wants to win and or wants to restore his legacy would do. That being said he could be that much of an arrogant dumb f*** that he wouldn't go that route. I don't know.
If cousins can be had for low 30s, that's ideal. If not and RW low to mid 20s I prob go that way.
The numbers for Wilson are ridiculously low. I agree that if he is anything close to Kirk, Kirk is better. The fundamental difference might be: Wilson could be a one year thing while Kirk will likely have enough guaranteed money that it would be for 2. Not the end of the world but how long should JJ sit?
I also think that Wilson has a more versatile game that would help JJ more than learning from Kirk. A passer who can use his legs to escape. Plus Wilson has that "it" factor as evidence by his SB win etc. I can't explain how he fell off so badly though.
That actually is an intriguing point. His game very likely will be more closer in line with what wilsons is than what cousins is due to the athletic ability. Fair and good point.
I am in the camp that ideal scenario for JJ is two years red shirt. Fucker is 20. That's MASSIVELY IMPORTANT added bonus in my view. There are concerns about his being slight, and actually I think a lot of that is he's probably just not even physically mature yet. So while he's learning the ropes slowly, that's also build him up some and get him thicker and a better base to work from. Obviously I don't know anymore than any other dummy here but my gut tells me the optimum path to him being good soon, is two years getting stronger and seasoned and take over 2026.
It's definitely an intriguing thought, but COMPLETELY PREDICATED on the notion that he would be double digits millions per year less than Cousins. 6M less? No thanks.
I'm pretty sure he's getting the money that's due to him no matter what happens if they cut him, So maybe he's willing to sign for 20 million a year for 2 years with us just because of the circumstances and situation and know he's going to have the money anyway from Denver so who cares what we pay him. That would be what a smart and competitive player who wants to win and or wants to restore his legacy would do. That being said he could be that much of an arrogant dumb f*** that he wouldn't go that route. I don't know.
If cousins can be had for low 30s, that's ideal. If not and RW low to mid 20s I prob go that way.
The numbers for Wilson are ridiculously low. I agree that if he is anything close to Kirk, Kirk is better. The fundamental difference might be: Wilson could be a one year thing while Kirk will likely have enough guaranteed money that it would be for 2. Not the end of the world but how long should JJ sit?
I also think that Wilson has a more versatile game that would help JJ more than learning from Kirk. A passer who can use his legs to escape. Plus Wilson has that "it" factor as evidence by his SB win etc. I can't explain how he fell off so badly though.
That actually is an intriguing point. His game very likely will be more closer in line with what wilsons is than what cousins is due to the athletic ability. Fair and good point.
I am in the camp that ideal scenario for JJ is two years red shirt. Fucker is 20. That's MASSIVELY IMPORTANT added bonus in my view. There are concerns about his being slight, and actually I think a lot of that is he's probably just not even physically mature yet. So while he's learning the ropes slowly, that's also build him up some and get him thicker and a better base to work from. Obviously I don't know anymore than any other dummy here but my gut tells me the optimum path to him being good soon, is two years getting stronger and seasoned and take over 2026.
Also a valid point on two years with JJ. I'm good with that. If indeed the projected contract is 2/70 50 guaranteed, then why not? Even after first year, it's only another $15M guaranteed so you can still get out of it. Plus, it presumbaly saves you the $28M dead cap.
But:
1. I don't think Kirk would sign for that
2. I don't think anyone is even offering Kirk that (but I might be wrong on that)
3. There is a value in moving on and start shifting the offense to a less-Kirk based one.
The numbers for Wilson are ridiculously low. I agree that if he is anything close to Kirk, Kirk is better. The fundamental difference might be: Wilson could be a one year thing while Kirk will likely have enough guaranteed money that it would be for 2. Not the end of the world but how long should JJ sit?
I also think that Wilson has a more versatile game that would help JJ more than learning from Kirk. A passer who can use his legs to escape. Plus Wilson has that "it" factor as evidence by his SB win etc. I can't explain how he fell off so badly though.
That actually is an intriguing point. His game very likely will be more closer in line with what wilsons is than what cousins is due to the athletic ability. Fair and good point.
I am in the camp that ideal scenario for JJ is two years red shirt. Fucker is 20. That's MASSIVELY IMPORTANT added bonus in my view. There are concerns about his being slight, and actually I think a lot of that is he's probably just not even physically mature yet. So while he's learning the ropes slowly, that's also build him up some and get him thicker and a better base to work from. Obviously I don't know anymore than any other dummy here but my gut tells me the optimum path to him being good soon, is two years getting stronger and seasoned and take over 2026.
Also a valid point on two years with JJ. I'm good with that. If indeed the projected contract is 2/70 50 guaranteed, then why not? Even after first year, it's only another $15M guaranteed so you can still get out of it. Plus, it presumbaly saves you the $28M dead cap.
But:
1. I don't think Kirk would sign for that
2. I don't think anyone is even offering Kirk that (but I might be wrong on that)
3. There is a value in moving on and start shifting the offense to a less-Kirk based one.
I don’t think a player you don’t intend to play for 2 years is worth a top-11 pick and I don’t think many GMs would either. They might not survive the 2 years to see him develop and come to fruition.
In two years, Arch Manning with be draft eligible. Think about that. If we’re waiting anyway…
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:59 am
That actually is an intriguing point. His game very likely will be more closer in line with what wilsons is than what cousins is due to the athletic ability. Fair and good point.
I am in the camp that ideal scenario for JJ is two years red shirt. Fucker is 20. That's MASSIVELY IMPORTANT added bonus in my view. There are concerns about his being slight, and actually I think a lot of that is he's probably just not even physically mature yet. So while he's learning the ropes slowly, that's also build him up some and get him thicker and a better base to work from. Obviously I don't know anymore than any other dummy here but my gut tells me the optimum path to him being good soon, is two years getting stronger and seasoned and take over 2026.
Also a valid point on two years with JJ. I'm good with that. If indeed the projected contract is 2/70 50 guaranteed, then why not? Even after first year, it's only another $15M guaranteed so you can still get out of it. Plus, it presumbaly saves you the $28M dead cap.
But:
1. I don't think Kirk would sign for that
2. I don't think anyone is even offering Kirk that (but I might be wrong on that)
3. There is a value in moving on and start shifting the offense to a less-Kirk based one.
I don’t think a player you don’t intend to play for 2 years is worth a top-11 pick and I don’t think many GMs would either. They might not survive the 2 years to see him develop and come to fruition.
In two years, Arch Manning with be draft eligible. Think about that. If we’re waiting anyway…
But we won't be near the top of that draft because we strive for mediocrity and are terrified about having a bad season. Having bad seasons get you in positions like: The Texans, Bears and Lions. We wouldn't want that.
The numbers for Wilson are ridiculously low. I agree that if he is anything close to Kirk, Kirk is better. The fundamental difference might be: Wilson could be a one year thing while Kirk will likely have enough guaranteed money that it would be for 2. Not the end of the world but how long should JJ sit?
I also think that Wilson has a more versatile game that would help JJ more than learning from Kirk. A passer who can use his legs to escape. Plus Wilson has that "it" factor as evidence by his SB win etc. I can't explain how he fell off so badly though.
That actually is an intriguing point. His game very likely will be more closer in line with what wilsons is than what cousins is due to the athletic ability. Fair and good point.
I am in the camp that ideal scenario for JJ is two years red shirt. Fucker is 20. That's MASSIVELY IMPORTANT added bonus in my view. There are concerns about his being slight, and actually I think a lot of that is he's probably just not even physically mature yet. So while he's learning the ropes slowly, that's also build him up some and get him thicker and a better base to work from. Obviously I don't know anymore than any other dummy here but my gut tells me the optimum path to him being good soon, is two years getting stronger and seasoned and take over 2026.
Also a valid point on two years with JJ. I'm good with that. If indeed the projected contract is 2/70 50 guaranteed, then why not? Even after first year, it's only another $15M guaranteed so you can still get out of it. Plus, it presumbaly saves you the $28M dead cap.
But:
1. I don't think Kirk would sign for that
2. I don't think anyone is even offering Kirk that (but I might be wrong on that)
3. There is a value in moving on and start shifting the offense to a less-Kirk based one.
I know there is nothing in his history to indicate he would sign that and leave money on table. It's a very valid point and it could play out that way. But my sense is, at this age the smart move is focusing on legacy and not contract. He is in an absolutely QB friendly offense with a HC he loves playing for and first time in how long has stability, it's the same fucking offense finally. And he has perhaps the best weapon in NFL and two other quality weapons also. It just makes sense career and legacy and trying to win something wise, that he stay here.
Maybe his ego or greed forbids him from doing that. If so, I'm perfectly fine pushing him out the door. It would be so moronic in my opinion that he would do that that I would be fine moving on. Cater to the guy and show you want him back but draw a fucking hard line on what you are willing to pay.
So long story short I think he does sign that or even slightly less, but absolutely I could be dreaming. If so, fuck him, go somewhere else then. I will say this, the one thing I think you're definitely wrong on is I think he will most assuredly get offers higher than that elsewhere. Too many desperate teams that are close.
I don’t have a problem if/when you disagree with me, but I think Drake Maye is a better prospect than JJ McCarthy. Just what games did you watch McCarthy where he impressed you as a great prospect?
I have watched just about every McCarthy and Maye video available online. If you actually watch McCarthy and are not impressed by his elite arm talent then you must be watching some other video.
I have not watched any highlight videos, but I watched several Michigan games. I’m not sure how many. The games I remember, Gophers, Maryland, Washington, Alabama, Ohio State, and a little of Nebraska. He seemed to hand the ball off a lot. And you can talk about footwork all you want, I think getting the ball from point A to point B is more important.
PLease. Watch the game files online. He makes NFL throws into NFL windows with NFL accuracy in every one of those games. It is actually impressive. HE reads the field incredibly well. HE makes solid progressions. He is very good in moving in the pocket and running with the ball.
There are things to clean up. I have mentioned a couple. Like all of these young QBs he makes mistakes here and there, especially since he gets away with a lot of cross body throws and like all of these guys he has some misses.
Ideally, I would like to sit McCarthy a year to learn the full playbook in the NFL.
Also a valid point on two years with JJ. I'm good with that. If indeed the projected contract is 2/70 50 guaranteed, then why not? Even after first year, it's only another $15M guaranteed so you can still get out of it. Plus, it presumbaly saves you the $28M dead cap.
But:
1. I don't think Kirk would sign for that
2. I don't think anyone is even offering Kirk that (but I might be wrong on that)
3. There is a value in moving on and start shifting the offense to a less-Kirk based one.
I don’t think a player you don’t intend to play for 2 years is worth a top-11 pick and I don’t think many GMs would either. They might not survive the 2 years to see him develop and come to fruition.
In two years, Arch Manning with be draft eligible. Think about that. If we’re waiting anyway…
But we won't be near the top of that draft because we strive for mediocrity and are terrified about having a bad season. Having bad seasons get you in positions like: The Texans, Bears and Lions. We wouldn't want that.
So what you’re saying is if we want a top quarterback prospect, we can either trade up to the top this year or some other year. Is that right?
And I actually don’t want to follow the Bears, Texans, or Lions model. Those teams did not have a bad season. They’ve had bad decades. You don’t need to do that. Just make a bold move now and hit on it. You don’t need to be terrible for a generation. Most good teams don’t do that.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
I don’t think a player you don’t intend to play for 2 years is worth a top-11 pick and I don’t think many GMs would either. They might not survive the 2 years to see him develop and come to fruition.
In two years, Arch Manning with be draft eligible. Think about that. If we’re waiting anyway…
But we won't be near the top of that draft because we strive for mediocrity and are terrified about having a bad season. Having bad seasons get you in positions like: The Texans, Bears and Lions. We wouldn't want that.
So what you’re saying is if we want a top quarterback prospect, we can either trade up to the top this year or some other year. Is that right?
And I actually don’t want to follow the Bears, Texans, or Lions model. Those teams did not have a bad season. They’ve had bad decades. You don’t need to do that. Just make a bold move now and hit on it. You don’t need to be terrible for a generation. Most good teams don’t do that.
Not all trade-ups are equal.
The difference is that Arch Manning likely requires the #1 pick and it would likely not be traded.
We are in the posssible great position. JJ might be the second best QB prospect in this draft and yet, nobody sees him that way because he's done so little. We MIGHT be in the position to get a top prospect cheap (relatively). Or we might be drafting a bust if we took JJ.
That's what I like about JJ. He has the tools, "it" factor and is young enough that he has that upside. Outside of the top 3, he is the only one with that kind of upside. Penix or Nix are safer and probably have a higher floor but not nearly as high of an upside. (of course, "upside" in this case could really just mean "hasn't been asked to do enough so we don't know that he CAN but we also don't know that he CAN'T)
But we won't be near the top of that draft because we strive for mediocrity and are terrified about having a bad season. Having bad seasons get you in positions like: The Texans, Bears and Lions. We wouldn't want that.
So what you’re saying is if we want a top quarterback prospect, we can either trade up to the top this year or some other year. Is that right?
And I actually don’t want to follow the Bears, Texans, or Lions model. Those teams did not have a bad season. They’ve had bad decades. You don’t need to do that. Just make a bold move now and hit on it. You don’t need to be terrible for a generation. Most good teams don’t do that.
Not all trade-ups are equal.
The difference is that Arch Manning likely requires the #1 pick and it would likely not be traded.
We are in the posssible great position. JJ might be the second best QB prospect in this draft and yet, nobody sees him that way because he's done so little. We MIGHT be in the position to get a top prospect cheap (relatively). Or we might be drafting a bust if we took JJ.
That's what I like about JJ. He has the tools, "it" factor and is young enough that he has that upside. Outside of the top 3, he is the only one with that kind of upside. Penix or Nix are safer and probably have a higher floor but not nearly as high of an upside. (of course, "upside" in this case could really just mean "hasn't been asked to do enough so we don't know that he CAN but we also don't know that he CAN'T)
If JJ is the second best QB prospect in the draft, then he’s not a two-year project. And if he’s a two-year project, then he’s not the second best QB prospect in the draft. That’s my assertion.
I’m 100% cool drafting JJ. Even cool moving up to get him. But if he’s worth that high of a pick, he’s not a two-year project.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
So what you’re saying is if we want a top quarterback prospect, we can either trade up to the top this year or some other year. Is that right?
And I actually don’t want to follow the Bears, Texans, or Lions model. Those teams did not have a bad season. They’ve had bad decades. You don’t need to do that. Just make a bold move now and hit on it. You don’t need to be terrible for a generation. Most good teams don’t do that.
Not all trade-ups are equal.
The difference is that Arch Manning likely requires the #1 pick and it would likely not be traded.
We are in the posssible great position. JJ might be the second best QB prospect in this draft and yet, nobody sees him that way because he's done so little. We MIGHT be in the position to get a top prospect cheap (relatively). Or we might be drafting a bust if we took JJ.
That's what I like about JJ. He has the tools, "it" factor and is young enough that he has that upside. Outside of the top 3, he is the only one with that kind of upside. Penix or Nix are safer and probably have a higher floor but not nearly as high of an upside. (of course, "upside" in this case could really just mean "hasn't been asked to do enough so we don't know that he CAN but we also don't know that he CAN'T)
If JJ is the second best QB prospect in the draft, then he’s not a two-year project. And if he’s a two-year project, then he’s not the second best QB prospect in the draft. That’s my assertion.
I’m 100% cool drafting JJ. Even cool moving up to get him. But if he’s worth that high of a pick, he’s not a two-year project.
I agree. I think he needs a year.
(To counter your overall point, he might be a two-year project and he therefore might not be worth that high of a pick, but at the same time, he will likely be drafted that high because some GM thinks he's worth it - or will be ready sooner. Ergo, he might not be worth that high of a pick for the Vikings but if they want him, that is what he will cost. But I understand your point. If the Vikings think he will take two years, then they think he is not ready enough or shown enough.)
