Latest Mock Penix to Minnesota!!!!!

[Butch Bradford]

Penix suffered season-ending injuries in each of his four seasons at Indiana (2018-21) — two torn ACLs and two shoulder issues — before transferring to Washington for the 2022 season. Despite that, Penix said his medical exams at the combine were "good" and he's ready to roll in the NFL.

I'm not a medical doctor, although I play one on tv, but I do know that ACL tears are serious injuries and, like a minor ankle sprain, you are more prevalent to tearing an ACL or spraining an ankle again.

Yes, he can sling the rock, however, he will be 24 years old in 2 months, which is a more advanced age by rookie standards. That and his history/trend of injuries gives me pause to draft him.

I would rather sell the farm to move up to the top 3 and get my tier 1 franchise QB....or trade up a few spots and draft JJ McCarthy.

Now the probabilities of chance will change with the FA signing of Kirk Cousins and trade of Justin Fields.

Once the dust settles there, let the games begin!

[cdr2529]

Trading for JJ is a dumb and mediocre move that will keep the Vikings an average team. Sick of Vikings fans trying to make a below-average qb out of the next Brady

[Butch Bradford]

Trading for JJ is a dumb and mediocre move that will keep the Vikings an average team. Sick of Vikings fans trying to make a below-average qb out of the next Brady

[Oriole81]

edit: i should have added this. it was under a youtube vid and i just looked at it again.

If his knee checks out, he’s a likely first-round pick — offering another cheaper option than trying to deal for Fields.

It’s the same with Nix. His arm may lack the pop of the elite draft prospects but his accuracy Saturday showed that his FBS-record 77.45 percent completion percentage last season wasn't merely the product of the Oregon offensive system. His footwork was also vastly improved and no one is questioning his football acumen or leadership.

Isn't Penix around 65% completion rate? Nix has way better stats, but both could pull a Bridgewater on us. McCarthy seems safer because he is young and worth trading up a few spots for if the price tag isn't too high. Maybe someone lets us do a trade with them like KOA did when he got Cine? You know, fleece someone...

I like that Penix had a better record and played in the championship. His completion rate scares me a bit though. Nix is higher, but physically seems a bigger risk. JJ is younger and may have a lot of room to grow.

JJ to JJ would be cool to call out all the time too. J to J...

Nix is the only QB that the Vikings didn't interview of the top 6 at the Combine. I think they are out on him.

Could mean they're trying to be covert?

[Señor Trumpo]

Isn't Penix around 65% completion rate? Nix has way better stats, but both could pull a Bridgewater on us. McCarthy seems safer because he is young and worth trading up a few spots for if the price tag isn't too high. Maybe someone lets us do a trade with them like KOA did when he got Cine? You know, fleece someone...

I like that Penix had a better record and played in the championship. His completion rate scares me a bit though. Nix is higher, but physically seems a bigger risk. JJ is younger and may have a lot of room to grow.

JJ to JJ would be cool to call out all the time too. J to J...

Nix is the only QB that the Vikings didn't interview of the top 6 at the Combine. I think they are out on him.

Good to know. I say they take JJ if they are gonna sit near 11. Sucks we can't ever get one of the top ones. Of course the year we need a quarterback is the year there are a bunch, but a ton of teams need one.

Who were the 6? I get the top 3, JJ, and Penix, but there is another?

Nix would be the 6th.

[Oriole81]

edit: i should have added this. it was under a youtube vid and i just looked at it again.

If his knee checks out, he’s a likely first-round pick — offering another cheaper option than trying to deal for Fields.

It’s the same with Nix. His arm may lack the pop of the elite draft prospects but his accuracy Saturday showed that his FBS-record 77.45 percent completion percentage last season wasn't merely the product of the Oregon offensive system. His footwork was also vastly improved and no one is questioning his football acumen or leadership.

I'm not opposed to Nix, I liked Teddy, but he probably has the least upside of any of the others.
He may be good for the first few years, but you may not want to pay him a 2nd contract.

That's fine if you go into it with the proper expectations, but if you're looking for a guy that can be our QB for the next 10 years, there's a high likelihood that it won't be Nix.

[Beef Supreme]

Are you in the medical field by chance? I had to go back at look at Weimys' comment. You're basing your take mostly off of his "take him off the board" comment I'm assuming? Because what I'm saying is a different point entirely from him being medically cleared now, and he's still on my board.....albeit the late 1st round early 2nd arena.

No I am not. Not physical medicine anyway.

Yes, Weimy’s take him off the board comment started this debate. He’s obviously entitled to his opinion, but if you say you’re taking him off your board after the doctors clear him, it means he was never on your board and you don’t care about a professional medical opinion after an evaluation specifically into the areas of concern. Just say that.


As far as dinging him a little? I mean, I don’t know you you speculate into that. He had injuries. He’s been cleared. How do you say how much that dings him? What kind of percentage are we able to put on the chance, not supported by the medical opinion, of reinjury? It’s just a shot in the dark. Go ahead and take it, we’re just Froobs shooting the shit after all, but it’s just a guess with no support. I’m going with the doctors. If they cleared him, they cleared him. If they’re wrong, they’re wrong. But at least it’s an expert opinion based on examination and not a “gut feel” or whatever else Froobs are basing this on.

i'm basing my decision on injury history and risk/reward based on a pick for QB at 11 or earlier. this is all on the vikings taking the plunge and picking a QB in the first round. if they don't and he's around in the second round i think the risk/reward would be different, but if it's a first round pick i'd take nix over him if the other four were gone. i always said that his injury history was a red flag with me--i just clarified that i wouldn't take him because of that. rightly or wrongly, that scared me off. too big of a move to have that uncertainty for me with the other options out there. that's all.

this is from an article i posted yesterday in the todd mcshay thread. it looks like teams are going to do their own due diligence on him with further medical exams.

Penix and Nix further complicate things. While both are 24 years old after winding college careers, their on-field and combine play has left enough teams intrigued.

Penix must still make it through medical exams and concerns from an injury-plagued college career at Washington and Indiana, but his performance at the combine mimicked his huge season in leading the Huskies to the national championship game. To many, he had the best throwing performance of the group. He looks pro ready.

You said you took him off your draft board. Are you backtracking that? Did you misspeak?


If actual doctors find something, then that is a new data point which should affect opinions.

[Beef Supreme]

edit: i should have added this. it was under a youtube vid and i just looked at it again.

If his knee checks out, he’s a likely first-round pick — offering another cheaper option than trying to deal for Fields.

It’s the same with Nix. His arm may lack the pop of the elite draft prospects but his accuracy Saturday showed that his FBS-record 77.45 percent completion percentage last season wasn't merely the product of the Oregon offensive system. His footwork was also vastly improved and no one is questioning his football acumen or leadership.

I'm not opposed to Nix, I liked Teddy, but he probably has the least upside of any of the others.
He may be good for the first few years, but you may not want to pay him a 2nd contract.

That's fine if you go into it with the proper expectations, but if you're looking for a guy that can be our QB for the next 10 years, there's a high likelihood that it won't be Nix.

Nix feels like his upside is David Carr. Not a bad player, but not a guy who will take you anywhere special. I wouldn’t hate him. But he doesn’t move the needle for me.

Bottom line: I want them to get the guy they think can get them there. I don’t want them to settle. If they like Nix, so be it. They’ve just got to be right.

[Oriole81]

edit: i should have added this. it was under a youtube vid and i just looked at it again.

If his knee checks out, he’s a likely first-round pick — offering another cheaper option than trying to deal for Fields.

It’s the same with Nix. His arm may lack the pop of the elite draft prospects but his accuracy Saturday showed that his FBS-record 77.45 percent completion percentage last season wasn't merely the product of the Oregon offensive system. His footwork was also vastly improved and no one is questioning his football acumen or leadership.

I'm not opposed to Nix, I liked Teddy, but he probably has the least upside of any of the others.
He may be good for the first few years, but you may not want to pay him a 2nd contract.

That's fine if you go into it with the proper expectations, but if you're looking for a guy that can be our QB for the next 10 years, there's a high likelihood that it won't be Nix.

Nix feels like his upside is David Carr. Not a bad player, but not a guy who will take you anywhere special. I wouldn’t hate him. But he doesn’t move the needle for me.

Bottom line: I want them to get the guy they think can get them there. I don’t want them to settle. If they like Nix, so be it. They’ve just got to be right.

How many guys do you think actually fit that threshold?

Lamar, Dak, Lawrence, Herbert, Watson, haven't taken their teams anywhere special.
If I wanted to be a real stickler I could say Josh Allen as well, though I am choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he is having a difficult time getting past Mahomes. But Buff hasn't been close to a SB.

The last two SB losing teams had a 2nd rd pick QB and a Mr Irrelevant QB.

[Beef Supreme]

I'm not opposed to Nix, I liked Teddy, but he probably has the least upside of any of the others.
He may be good for the first few years, but you may not want to pay him a 2nd contract.

That's fine if you go into it with the proper expectations, but if you're looking for a guy that can be our QB for the next 10 years, there's a high likelihood that it won't be Nix.

Nix feels like his upside is David Carr. Not a bad player, but not a guy who will take you anywhere special. I wouldn’t hate him. But he doesn’t move the needle for me.

Bottom line: I want them to get the guy they think can get them there. I don’t want them to settle. If they like Nix, so be it. They’ve just got to be right.

How many guys do you think actually fit that threshold?

Lamar, Dak, Lawrence, Herbert, Watson, haven't taken their teams anywhere special.
If I wanted to be a real stickler I could say Josh Allen as well, though I am choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he is having a difficult time getting past Mahomes. But Buff hasn't been close to a SB.

The last two SB losing teams had a 2nd rd pick QB and a Mr Irrelevant QB.

Penix has special traits. So do the top-3. Arguably McCarthy too. They all have flaws in varying degrees too. It’s about maximizing and accentuating their strengths and mitigating and minimizing their flaws. The top guys have more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses. But I don’t think Nix does anything at a level that translates into elite performance in the NFL. That sets a lower ceiling for him than the rest.

[Señor Trumpo]

After Chris Simms put out his QB rankings, I'm officially on board with Drake Maye, JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix. For those that don't remember he had Kellen Mond in his top 4 ranking and Zach Wilson #1.

[weimy froob]

No I am not. Not physical medicine anyway.

Yes, Weimy’s take him off the board comment started this debate. He’s obviously entitled to his opinion, but if you say you’re taking him off your board after the doctors clear him, it means he was never on your board and you don’t care about a professional medical opinion after an evaluation specifically into the areas of concern. Just say that.


As far as dinging him a little? I mean, I don’t know you you speculate into that. He had injuries. He’s been cleared. How do you say how much that dings him? What kind of percentage are we able to put on the chance, not supported by the medical opinion, of reinjury? It’s just a shot in the dark. Go ahead and take it, we’re just Froobs shooting the shit after all, but it’s just a guess with no support. I’m going with the doctors. If they cleared him, they cleared him. If they’re wrong, they’re wrong. But at least it’s an expert opinion based on examination and not a “gut feel” or whatever else Froobs are basing this on.

i'm basing my decision on injury history and risk/reward based on a pick for QB at 11 or earlier. this is all on the vikings taking the plunge and picking a QB in the first round. if they don't and he's around in the second round i think the risk/reward would be different, but if it's a first round pick i'd take nix over him if the other four were gone. i always said that his injury history was a red flag with me--i just clarified that i wouldn't take him because of that. rightly or wrongly, that scared me off. too big of a move to have that uncertainty for me with the other options out there. that's all.

this is from an article i posted yesterday in the todd mcshay thread. it looks like teams are going to do their own due diligence on him with further medical exams.

Penix and Nix further complicate things. While both are 24 years old after winding college careers, their on-field and combine play has left enough teams intrigued.

Penix must still make it through medical exams and concerns from an injury-plagued college career at Washington and Indiana, but his performance at the combine mimicked his huge season in leading the Huskies to the national championship game. To many, he had the best throwing performance of the group. He looks pro ready.

You said you took him off your draft board. Are you backtracking that? Did you misspeak?


If actual doctors find something, then that is a new data point which should affect opinions.

here's what i'd try to do/do if i was the GM. first, cut ties with kirk. then i'm going QB with my first pick--and i'm in overpay mode. i'm too concerned that the giants are going to go QB--so i try to get to five to get JJ. swapping firsts this year and giving up the second round picks this year and next year.

if that trade falls through and the giants don't take mccarthy and the falcons have cousins and don't take a QB i call the jets and work out a swapping firsts trade to grab JJ. i don't want to get sniped by the broncos or the raiders at 10.

if nothing works out and mccarthy gets taken before by another team before 11 i take nix there. i think he'd be able to hit the vikings open receivers.

this is all on the assumption that the consensus top three QBs go in the top three picks.

enough about me making the decisions. i'm with you that i want the vikings to do what they have to do to get the guy they want and they have to be right with that selection. if they're wrong i'm sure the wilfs will do what they have to do.

[Oriole81]

Nix feels like his upside is David Carr. Not a bad player, but not a guy who will take you anywhere special. I wouldn’t hate him. But he doesn’t move the needle for me.

Bottom line: I want them to get the guy they think can get them there. I don’t want them to settle. If they like Nix, so be it. They’ve just got to be right.

How many guys do you think actually fit that threshold?

Lamar, Dak, Lawrence, Herbert, Watson, haven't taken their teams anywhere special.
If I wanted to be a real stickler I could say Josh Allen as well, though I am choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he is having a difficult time getting past Mahomes. But Buff hasn't been close to a SB.

The last two SB losing teams had a 2nd rd pick QB and a Mr Irrelevant QB.

Penix has special traits. So do the top-3. Arguably McCarthy too. They all have flaws in varying degrees too. It’s about maximizing and accentuating their strengths and mitigating and minimizing their flaws. The top guys have more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses. But I don’t think Nix does anything at a level that translates into elite performance in the NFL. That sets a lower ceiling for him than the rest.

The point I was trying to make is it seems that the quest for that may in fact be an illusion, and it may be causing us to all overrate the QB position.
That in turn may be driving up the QB salaries and the cost it takes to acquire a QB on draft day.

But if you take the position that there's only a few select special QBs, but that the teams that don't have them can still be just as successful by utilizing other strengths, than it truly levels the playing field.
Teams with good coaching/development and that know how to put their QB into a position to succeed still are successful, and that helps to keep the cost associated with the QB position more in line.

All of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy have serious flaws, so why should teams think that they'll magically rise to the level of Mahomes/Burrow, and justify spending up to three first round picks?

I'm obviously talking in a big picture sense, but the use of the "a guy that will take you anywhere special" caught my eye.
I think everyone would be better served if we stopped thinking of that as the expectation.

[Señor Trumpo]

i'm basing my decision on injury history and risk/reward based on a pick for QB at 11 or earlier. this is all on the vikings taking the plunge and picking a QB in the first round. if they don't and he's around in the second round i think the risk/reward would be different, but if it's a first round pick i'd take nix over him if the other four were gone. i always said that his injury history was a red flag with me--i just clarified that i wouldn't take him because of that. rightly or wrongly, that scared me off. too big of a move to have that uncertainty for me with the other options out there. that's all.

this is from an article i posted yesterday in the todd mcshay thread. it looks like teams are going to do their own due diligence on him with further medical exams.

Penix and Nix further complicate things. While both are 24 years old after winding college careers, their on-field and combine play has left enough teams intrigued.

Penix must still make it through medical exams and concerns from an injury-plagued college career at Washington and Indiana, but his performance at the combine mimicked his huge season in leading the Huskies to the national championship game. To many, he had the best throwing performance of the group. He looks pro ready.

You said you took him off your draft board. Are you backtracking that? Did you misspeak?


If actual doctors find something, then that is a new data point which should affect opinions.

here's what i'd try to do/do if i was the GM. first, cut ties with kirk. then i'm going QB with my first pick--and i'm i overpay mode. i'm too concerned that the giants are going to go QB--so i try to get to five to get JJ. swapping firsts this year and giving up the second round picks this year and next year.

if that trade falls through and the giants don't take mccarthy and the falcons have cousins and don't take a QB i call the jets and work out a swapping firsts trade to grab JJ. i don't want to get sniped by the broncos or the raiders at 10.

if nothing works out and mccarthy gets taken before by another team before 11 i take nix there. i think he'd be able to hit the vikings open receivers.

this is all on the assumption that the consensus top three QBs go in the top three picks.

enough about me making the decisions. i'm with you that i want the vikings to do what they have to do to get the guy they want and they have to be right with that selection. if they're wrong i'm sure the wilfs will do what they have to do.

I think this year you'll also have to give up the 2025 #1 pick. Too much competition for the QB's that there will be huge overpay to get them.

[weimy froob]

How many guys do you think actually fit that threshold?

Lamar, Dak, Lawrence, Herbert, Watson, haven't taken their teams anywhere special.
If I wanted to be a real stickler I could say Josh Allen as well, though I am choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he is having a difficult time getting past Mahomes. But Buff hasn't been close to a SB.

The last two SB losing teams had a 2nd rd pick QB and a Mr Irrelevant QB.

Penix has special traits. So do the top-3. Arguably McCarthy too. They all have flaws in varying degrees too. It’s about maximizing and accentuating their strengths and mitigating and minimizing their flaws. The top guys have more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses. But I don’t think Nix does anything at a level that translates into elite performance in the NFL. That sets a lower ceiling for him than the rest.

The point I was trying to make is it seems that the quest for that may in fact be an illusion, and it may be causing us to all overrate the QB position.
That in turn may be driving up the QB salaries and the cost it takes to acquire a QB on draft day.

But if you take the position that there's only a few select special QBs, but that the teams that don't have them can still be just as successful by utilizing other strengths, than it truly levels the playing field.
Teams with good coaching/development and that know how to put their QB into a position to succeed still are successful, and that helps to keep the cost associated with the QB position more in line.

All of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy have serious flaws, so why should teams think that they'll magically rise to the level of Mahomes/Burrow, and justify spending up to three first round picks?

I'm obviously talking in a big picture sense, but the use of the "a guy that will take you anywhere special" caught my eye.
I think everyone would be better served if we stopped thinking of that as the expectation.

i agree with your big picture take. i still would like mccarthy--but i do think nix could hit open receivers and do a good enough job that the vikings could compete with him as the QB.

[weimy froob]

i'm not fooling around with trading back to try to get more "value" out of a nix selection. i'm taking him at 11.

[Oriole81]

i'm basing my decision on injury history and risk/reward based on a pick for QB at 11 or earlier. this is all on the vikings taking the plunge and picking a QB in the first round. if they don't and he's around in the second round i think the risk/reward would be different, but if it's a first round pick i'd take nix over him if the other four were gone. i always said that his injury history was a red flag with me--i just clarified that i wouldn't take him because of that. rightly or wrongly, that scared me off. too big of a move to have that uncertainty for me with the other options out there. that's all.

this is from an article i posted yesterday in the todd mcshay thread. it looks like teams are going to do their own due diligence on him with further medical exams.

Penix and Nix further complicate things. While both are 24 years old after winding college careers, their on-field and combine play has left enough teams intrigued.

Penix must still make it through medical exams and concerns from an injury-plagued college career at Washington and Indiana, but his performance at the combine mimicked his huge season in leading the Huskies to the national championship game. To many, he had the best throwing performance of the group. He looks pro ready.

You said you took him off your draft board. Are you backtracking that? Did you misspeak?


If actual doctors find something, then that is a new data point which should affect opinions.

here's what i'd try to do/do if i was the GM. first, cut ties with kirk. then i'm going QB with my first pick--and i'm in overpay mode. i'm too concerned that the giants are going to go QB--so i try to get to five to get JJ. swapping firsts this year and giving up the second round picks this year and next year.

if that trade falls through and the giants don't take mccarthy and the falcons have cousins and don't take a QB i call the jets and work out a swapping firsts trade to grab JJ. i don't want to get sniped by the broncos or the raiders at 10.

if nothing works out and mccarthy gets taken before by another team before 11 i take nix there. i think he'd be able to hit the vikings open receivers.

this is all on the assumption that the consensus top three QBs go in the top three picks.

enough about me making the decisions. i'm with you that i want the vikings to do what they have to do to get the guy they want and they have to be right with that selection. if they're wrong i'm sure the wilfs will do what they have to do.

What would you prefer between doing one of the small trade ups for Maye if its him as QB4, or sitting at 11 and taking Nix?

[Oriole81]

Penix has special traits. So do the top-3. Arguably McCarthy too. They all have flaws in varying degrees too. It’s about maximizing and accentuating their strengths and mitigating and minimizing their flaws. The top guys have more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses. But I don’t think Nix does anything at a level that translates into elite performance in the NFL. That sets a lower ceiling for him than the rest.

The point I was trying to make is it seems that the quest for that may in fact be an illusion, and it may be causing us to all overrate the QB position.
That in turn may be driving up the QB salaries and the cost it takes to acquire a QB on draft day.

But if you take the position that there's only a few select special QBs, but that the teams that don't have them can still be just as successful by utilizing other strengths, than it truly levels the playing field.
Teams with good coaching/development and that know how to put their QB into a position to succeed still are successful, and that helps to keep the cost associated with the QB position more in line.

All of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy have serious flaws, so why should teams think that they'll magically rise to the level of Mahomes/Burrow, and justify spending up to three first round picks?

I'm obviously talking in a big picture sense, but the use of the "a guy that will take you anywhere special" caught my eye.
I think everyone would be better served if we stopped thinking of that as the expectation.

i agree with your big picture take. i still would like mccarthy--but i do think nix could hit open receivers and do a good enough job that the vikings could compete with him as the QB.

And I'll admit that I'm fine with a reasonable trade up. Both Penix and Nix have "issues" and I have question marks about being able to expect a 2nd contract out of either.
The other 4 all have long term upside, and that is worth paying for.

But it does seem like some of the recent dialogue is getting a little bit much.

[weimy froob]

You said you took him off your draft board. Are you backtracking that? Did you misspeak?


If actual doctors find something, then that is a new data point which should affect opinions.

here's what i'd try to do/do if i was the GM. first, cut ties with kirk. then i'm going QB with my first pick--and i'm in overpay mode. i'm too concerned that the giants are going to go QB--so i try to get to five to get JJ. swapping firsts this year and giving up the second round picks this year and next year.

if that trade falls through and the giants don't take mccarthy and the falcons have cousins and don't take a QB i call the jets and work out a swapping firsts trade to grab JJ. i don't want to get sniped by the broncos or the raiders at 10.

if nothing works out and mccarthy gets taken before by another team before 11 i take nix there. i think he'd be able to hit the vikings open receivers.

this is all on the assumption that the consensus top three QBs go in the top three picks.

enough about me making the decisions. i'm with you that i want the vikings to do what they have to do to get the guy they want and they have to be right with that selection. if they're wrong i'm sure the wilfs will do what they have to do.

What would you prefer between doing one of the small trade ups for Maye if its him as QB4, or sitting at 11 and taking Nix?

i don't know because i've taken a pass on maye--but to get back to your big picture point. if KOC can't get it to work with nix or any of the QBs that i think they're going to take in the first round then i don't think he's the man for the job. they should have watched enough tape that they know what kind of guy they're getting and the next step is to find a way to make it work with him. again i go back to the yards little nicky mullens put up hitting the open receivers. if you're taking a guy with your first pick the ceiling has to be higher than little nicky.

[Beef Supreme]

How many guys do you think actually fit that threshold?

Lamar, Dak, Lawrence, Herbert, Watson, haven't taken their teams anywhere special.
If I wanted to be a real stickler I could say Josh Allen as well, though I am choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say he is having a difficult time getting past Mahomes. But Buff hasn't been close to a SB.

The last two SB losing teams had a 2nd rd pick QB and a Mr Irrelevant QB.

Penix has special traits. So do the top-3. Arguably McCarthy too. They all have flaws in varying degrees too. It’s about maximizing and accentuating their strengths and mitigating and minimizing their flaws. The top guys have more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses. But I don’t think Nix does anything at a level that translates into elite performance in the NFL. That sets a lower ceiling for him than the rest.

The point I was trying to make is it seems that the quest for that may in fact be an illusion, and it may be causing us to all overrate the QB position.
That in turn may be driving up the QB salaries and the cost it takes to acquire a QB on draft day.

But if you take the position that there's only a few select special QBs, but that the teams that don't have them can still be just as successful by utilizing other strengths, than it truly levels the playing field.
Teams with good coaching/development and that know how to put their QB into a position to succeed still are successful, and that helps to keep the cost associated with the QB position more in line.

All of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy have serious flaws, so why should teams think that they'll magically rise to the level of Mahomes/Burrow, and justify spending up to three first round picks?

I'm obviously talking in a big picture sense, but the use of the "a guy that will take you anywhere special" caught my eye.
I think everyone would be better served if we stopped thinking of that as the expectation.

We’re getting into semantics a little here, but how about a guy who doesn’t require a superhuman effort by his organization to build a team without weaknesses around him to succeed at a high level.


I am pie in the sky about the importance of landing a top quarterback. I’m of the belief that it takes the right guy and coaching/organization to develop that. I have some optimism we may have a quality organization capable of taking a prospect with high upside and maximizing that. Bo Nix to me has talent limitations that I don’t think Penix, JJ, and the top-3 have.

Get that guy and we’re in business.

I think it’s important to take such a swing because Tom Brady and Patric Mahomes, two obviously elite QBs from elite organizations won 10 of the last 23 super bowls. Of the other 13, Eli manning won 2, Ben Roethlisberger won 2, Matthew Stafford won 1, Brad Johnson won 1, Nick Foles won 1, Russell Wilson won 1, Aaron Rodgers won 1, Joe Flacco won 1, Drew Brees won 1, and Peyton Manning won 2.

Of those, you can argue that Johnson, Stafford, Flacco, Foles, Eli, and maybe the 2nd Peyton title involved QBs were were playing at a less than HoF level. And all of those teams had absolutely fantastic rosters beyond the QB.

We’ve tried the “good QB” route and have been unable to build a roster around him good enough to even compete for a title, much less win one. That doesn’t mean we couldn’t in the future. But I’d just like to try it the other way. Go all in to get that guy, even if it costs a lot. And then you have the easier task of building a roster around a guy who can make up for flaws.

I think Nix could possibly win a title a-la some of the lesser names on that list, but I’d love to have one of the better names so we’re in the mix every year and not hoping the stars align. That’s what I’d like to see for a change.

[Oriole81]

Penix has special traits. So do the top-3. Arguably McCarthy too. They all have flaws in varying degrees too. It’s about maximizing and accentuating their strengths and mitigating and minimizing their flaws. The top guys have more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses. But I don’t think Nix does anything at a level that translates into elite performance in the NFL. That sets a lower ceiling for him than the rest.

The point I was trying to make is it seems that the quest for that may in fact be an illusion, and it may be causing us to all overrate the QB position.
That in turn may be driving up the QB salaries and the cost it takes to acquire a QB on draft day.

But if you take the position that there's only a few select special QBs, but that the teams that don't have them can still be just as successful by utilizing other strengths, than it truly levels the playing field.
Teams with good coaching/development and that know how to put their QB into a position to succeed still are successful, and that helps to keep the cost associated with the QB position more in line.

All of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy have serious flaws, so why should teams think that they'll magically rise to the level of Mahomes/Burrow, and justify spending up to three first round picks?

I'm obviously talking in a big picture sense, but the use of the "a guy that will take you anywhere special" caught my eye.
I think everyone would be better served if we stopped thinking of that as the expectation.

We’re getting into semantics a little here, but how about a guy who doesn’t require a superhuman effort by his organization to build a team without weaknesses around him to succeed at a high level.


I am pie in the sky about the importance of landing a top quarterback. I’m of the belief that it takes the right guy and coaching/organization to develop that. I have some optimism we may have a quality organization capable of taking a prospect with high upside and maximizing that. Bo Nix to me has talent limitations that I don’t think Penix, JJ, and the top-3 have.

Get that guy and we’re in business.

I think it’s important to take such a swing because Tom Brady and Patric Mahomes, two obviously elite QBs from elite organizations won 10 of the last 23 super bowls. Of the other 13, Eli manning won 2, Ben Roethlisberger won 2, Matthew Stafford won 1, Brad Johnson won 1, Nick Foles won 1, Russell Wilson won 1, Aaron Rodgers won 1, Joe Flacco won 1, Drew Brees won 1, and Peyton Manning won 2.

Of those, you can argue that Johnson, Stafford, Flacco, Foles, Eli, and maybe the 2nd Peyton title involved QBs were were playing at a less than HoF level. And all of those teams had absolutely fantastic rosters beyond the QB.

We’ve tried the “good QB” route and have been unable to build a roster around him good enough to even compete for a title, much less win one. That doesn’t mean we couldn’t in the future. But I’d just like to try it the other way. Go all in to get that guy, even if it costs a lot. And then you have the easier task of building a roster around a guy who can make up for flaws.

I think Nix could possibly win a title a-la some of the lesser names on that list, but I’d love to have one of the better names so we’re in the mix every year and not hoping the stars align. That’s what I’d like to see for a change.

But I think its also important to remember that its impossible to know which of these guys will truly end up being that special guy, even if they're still good to very good players.
Lamar is a two time MVP and still struggles in the playoffs.
The Chargers haven't done Herbert any favors previously, but he had a monumental meltdown in the playoffs two years ago.

Individually there may not be that much of a difference between any of the top 4 guys...especially for teams that have good coaching.

[hategreenticemase]

We’re getting into semantics a little here, but how about a guy who doesn’t require a superhuman effort by his organization to build a team without weaknesses around him to succeed at a high level

.

This is what I love about this place. An otherwise quality and reasonable poster has such a weird bias against a guy they make truly outlandish and preposterous statements like the quote above to try and explain their narrative. The Boob just did the same nonsense other day and of course it's been ongoing like that from him for years (except when he was doing the "hoist" bit) but that's all part of his routine/fishing here.

Requires "superhuman effort" and "a team with no weaknesses". Good Lord.

Cousins has a big flaw and it was known by anyone and everyone when they purchased him - he sucks at feeling pressure and is worse at dealing with and escaping it. Of all a top end QBs he is prob the single most OL reliant one. Period.

So he requires a team with at bare minimum a competent OL and it would be best to have a quality one. Know what else he needs? Same thing Patrick Mahomes does, same thing Brady did, same thing Manning did - a decent defense.

How many seasons has he had decent OL play and a decent defense? Let me help, ZERO. But no, he need the PERFECT ROSTER. He needs a team with NO flaws. He needs a "superhuman effort".

He won 13 games with one of the worst fucking defenses in the league. After a poor start last year he had them coming on and playing similar to year prior and unfortunately Achilles happened.

Not all QBs need a decent OL - many can get away with not so good. I would argue none can have a terrible OL like we had a couple of his years (witness Brady the year they lost title game at Denver when their OL was a MASH unit), but certainly some can deal with a below avg OL. ALL QB need at least a decent defense.

[D_H]

Trading for JJ is a dumb and mediocre move that will keep the Vikings an average team. Sick of Vikings fans trying to make a below-average qb out of the next Brady

I’m very confident KC is not dim enough to get JJ McCarthy he has Andy Dalton written all over him. He threw three interceptions against bowling Green for crying out loud. He’s good at handing off the ball however. Lol

[Beef Supreme]

The point I was trying to make is it seems that the quest for that may in fact be an illusion, and it may be causing us to all overrate the QB position.
That in turn may be driving up the QB salaries and the cost it takes to acquire a QB on draft day.

But if you take the position that there's only a few select special QBs, but that the teams that don't have them can still be just as successful by utilizing other strengths, than it truly levels the playing field.
Teams with good coaching/development and that know how to put their QB into a position to succeed still are successful, and that helps to keep the cost associated with the QB position more in line.

All of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy have serious flaws, so why should teams think that they'll magically rise to the level of Mahomes/Burrow, and justify spending up to three first round picks?

I'm obviously talking in a big picture sense, but the use of the "a guy that will take you anywhere special" caught my eye.
I think everyone would be better served if we stopped thinking of that as the expectation.

We’re getting into semantics a little here, but how about a guy who doesn’t require a superhuman effort by his organization to build a team without weaknesses around him to succeed at a high level.


I am pie in the sky about the importance of landing a top quarterback. I’m of the belief that it takes the right guy and coaching/organization to develop that. I have some optimism we may have a quality organization capable of taking a prospect with high upside and maximizing that. Bo Nix to me has talent limitations that I don’t think Penix, JJ, and the top-3 have.

Get that guy and we’re in business.

I think it’s important to take such a swing because Tom Brady and Patric Mahomes, two obviously elite QBs from elite organizations won 10 of the last 23 super bowls. Of the other 13, Eli manning won 2, Ben Roethlisberger won 2, Matthew Stafford won 1, Brad Johnson won 1, Nick Foles won 1, Russell Wilson won 1, Aaron Rodgers won 1, Joe Flacco won 1, Drew Brees won 1, and Peyton Manning won 2.

Of those, you can argue that Johnson, Stafford, Flacco, Foles, Eli, and maybe the 2nd Peyton title involved QBs were were playing at a less than HoF level. And all of those teams had absolutely fantastic rosters beyond the QB.

We’ve tried the “good QB” route and have been unable to build a roster around him good enough to even compete for a title, much less win one. That doesn’t mean we couldn’t in the future. But I’d just like to try it the other way. Go all in to get that guy, even if it costs a lot. And then you have the easier task of building a roster around a guy who can make up for flaws.

I think Nix could possibly win a title a-la some of the lesser names on that list, but I’d love to have one of the better names so we’re in the mix every year and not hoping the stars align. That’s what I’d like to see for a change.

But I think its also important to remember that its impossible to know which of these guys will truly end up being that special guy, even if they're still good to very good players.
Lamar is a two time MVP and still struggles in the playoffs.
The Chargers haven't done Herbert any favors previously, but he had a monumental meltdown in the playoffs two years ago.

Individually there may not be that much of a difference between any of the top 4 guys...especially for teams that have good coaching.

Of course it is. I’m not looking for a guarantee. I’m looking for a fresh start and a new direction.

[Butch Bradford]

After Chris Simms put out his QB rankings, I'm officially on board with Drake Maye, JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix. For those that don't remember he had Kellen Mond in his top 4 ranking and Zach Wilson #1.

Gracias.

Painfully aware.

I agree. As it stands today, Maye is my #1 choice but we need to trade up into the top 3, with 3 being the most likely landing spot.

Then we need to have Chicago draft Williams, Washington draft Daniels and have NE willing to trade out with us.

What will be interesting is knowing what draft capital it will take.

[ForCaleb]

After Chris Simms put out his QB rankings, I'm officially on board with Drake Maye, JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix. For those that don't remember he had Kellen Mond in his top 4 ranking and Zach Wilson #1.

I think all 6 QBs are in their own tier (2.5-3)

Caleb probably has better skill advantages compared to the other five, but he's going to be a headcase.

[cunningham]

This mock just posted on Yahoo. I can't believe we'd take McCarthy over Daniels...

[Butch Bradford]

This mock just posted on Yahoo. I can't believe we'd take McCarthy over Daniels...

Maybe they think that McCarthy is a better fit in KOC's offense?

[Oriole81]

^^Williams & Harrison in Chi is pretty damn interesting

[cunningham]

This mock just posted on Yahoo. I can't believe we'd take McCarthy over Daniels...

Maybe they think that McCarthy is a better fit in KOC's offense?

Maybe, but KOC throws the most of any coach in the entire NFL. I will trust their judgement to a point.

I was disappointed how last season ended. Dobbs got worse each week, Hall looked worse in his 2nd start than the first, and Mullens was allowed to throw for 300 yards despite being a turnover machine. Kirk looked good in KOC year 1, but in year two Osborn and Mattison dropped more balls than a 1970 train porno.

Maybe it was a sophomore slump, and maybe JJ is young enough to not be close to his ceiling, but I had Daniels as the second best of the 3. Guess the top 3 should have participated more in the combine.