Jaden McDaniels

[somuchyummy]

Time for a Jaden thread.

I was thinking of the players I'm most disappointed in this year - and unfortunately Jaden heads the list. Kyle hasn't been his usual self, but we don't even know if he'll be here next year (or even thru the trading period). Shake is a total whiff on an FA we thought would spark our O, but again- no guaranteed money into next year. Moore Jr. is likely a 98% late first round whiff. It happens. And I'll include Lenny on this Top 5 list - not because of his doing, but because it looked like we stole a gem out of the draft, but have nothing to show for it because Finch has had him on the floor for a total of 11 minutes.

But Jaden? He's been mentioned as a core piece moving forward. One of our long term untouchables. So the stakes are way higher with him in terms of success or failure. I don't know. For one thing, our team ascended to the top of the league's D list when Jaden was injured and not on the floor. He's a very good defender - but not the key factor of our good D. That's more teamwide and centered around Rudy. If it's the plan that he's out there to stop the great perimeter scorers, there are some huge wrinkles in that plan. Kyrie and Luka combined for 71 last night - Jaden had 2. And you can, of course, just say "bad game" - but the fact remains that his offense as a starter is more hit than miss. He's played 25 games this year - in nearly half (12) he's scored between 0-10 points. Only three games with 20-21. He's becoming a $22M Matisse Thybulle - but I'd argue that Thybulle is probably the better defender. Whatever - I no longer think he's untouchable tradewise. Maybe we move Jaden for the young PG and keep KAT.

Thoughts?

[ChrisPaulGeorgeHill]

I’m indifferent on McDaniels.

I think he’s a very good defender. Sometimes great defender. But I’ve never considered him an elite defender.

Offensively he still looks raw. His handle, though improved, still looks too loose for my liking and I always think he’ll turn it over when he drives to the rim.

His shot has improved and he isn’t missing as much as he used to.

That said, I would definitely be open to moving him.

Too often he just isn’t a factor on offense. That’s fine if we are rolling and KAT and ANT are taking care of the scoring load.

On nights where one of them is off and/or we need another guy to step up, he hasn’t been able to be that guy.

Maybe he just can’t be that guy. But he’s gonna be paid to be that guy on occasion (in addition to defense) and he doesn’t seem to have the ability or mindset to be that.

Wasn’t Jaden asked for by Utah and the front office reportedly INSISTED he was untouchable so we compensated with offering multiple 1st rounders?

If given a chance again, would it been smarter to just trade McDaniels, not pay him that contract, and keep some of the picks?

Oh well, it’s moot now but it always makes me wonder.

[Roy Kent]

I'm still in Jaden's corner for now.

[flexbuffchest]

Defense is just fine.

But with that contract comes more expectations. He needs to develop more offense.

Not worried about him in the slightest though. Full confidence in him.

[Hornets]

No offense but I think many of you are overvaluing J-Mac. For what he is being paid the Wolves are not getting a good return on their investment as of yet. Hope he takes the next step and soon...

[somuchyummy]

Here's a trade idea.

Jaden and Shake to Indiana for Buddy Hield and Andrew Nembhard.

We move on from Shake - lose McDaniels to a team that seriously needs to improve their D (and fits their youth movement timeline) - we pick up Hield (who may leave in FA this summer) but in the meantime and into the playoffs gives us a legit floor spacer, plus in Nembhard we try a young heir-apparent to Mike.

Mike/Nembhard/Jmac
Ant/Buddy/Moore
NAW/TBJ/Minott
KAT/Kyle/Lenny
Rudy/Naz/Garza

[witljon]

I think we should sit tight and let the trade deadline pass without making any moves. We’re still at the top of the standings despite staggering through our toughest stretch on the schedule. I guess we will always have rubes here pointing out negatives no matter how good we are. We should keep our good players not trade em.

[witljon]

Time for a Jaden thread.

I was thinking of the players I'm most disappointed in this year - and unfortunately Jaden heads the list. Kyle hasn't been his usual self, but we don't even know if he'll be here next year (or even thru the trading period). Shake is a total whiff on an FA we thought would spark our O, but again- no guaranteed money into next year. Moore Jr. is likely a 98% late first round whiff. It happens. And I'll include Lenny on this Top 5 list - not because of his doing, but because it looked like we stole a gem out of the draft, but have nothing to show for it because Finch has had him on the floor for a total of 11 minutes.

But Jaden? He's been mentioned as a core piece moving forward. One of our long term untouchables. So the stakes are way higher with him in terms of success or failure. I don't know. For one thing, our team ascended to the top of the league's D list when Jaden was injured and not on the floor. He's a very good defender - but not the key factor of our good D. That's more teamwide and centered around Rudy. If it's the plan that he's out there to stop the great perimeter scorers, there are some huge wrinkles in that plan. Kyrie and Luka combined for 71 last night - Jaden had 2. And you can, of course, just say "bad game" - but the fact remains that his offense as a starter is more hit than miss. He's played 25 games this year - in nearly half (12) he's scored between 0-10 points. Only three games with 20-21. He's becoming a $22M Matisse Thybulle - but I'd argue that Thybulle is probably the better defender. Whatever - I no longer think he's untouchable tradewise. Maybe we move Jaden for the young PG and keep KAT.

Thoughts?

What about Alexander Walker? You happy or disappointed in him? People here rant and rave about him after a good game, but quiet about him most of the other games.

[flexbuffchest]

No offense but I think many of you are overvaluing J-Mac. For what he is being paid the Wolves are not getting a good return on their investment as of yet. Hope he takes the next step and soon...

He is being paid 3.9 million this year

[twolves31]

I think we should sit tight and let the trade deadline pass without making any moves. We’re still at the top of the standings despite staggering through our toughest stretch on the schedule. I guess we will always have rubes here pointing out negatives no matter how good we are. We should keep our good players not trade em.

I go back and forth on it, this is the best start in Wolves history so it makes sense not to make change that could disrupt it. On the hand there is no guarantee we will have another season like this with this roster. Atlanta after a deep playoff run three years ago looked like they were heading towards a championship level team and they just haven't been the same since. If Minnesota Mike gets hurt on a fluke play like Cassell's big ball dance, it's all over for us.

[twolves31]

We desperately need Jaden to consistently knock down that wide open corner 3. I do think Jaden is going to eventually become a pretty good offensive player, but right now we need him to be his normal great defensive self and knock down a few corner threes. If he can't hit that corner 3 consistently, we are going to lose important games come playoff time, as teams will just leave him open and double Kat and Ant.

[witljon]

No offense but I think many of you are overvaluing J-Mac. For what he is being paid the Wolves are not getting a good return on their investment as of yet. Hope he takes the next step and soon...

He is being paid 3.9 million this year

To me, it doesn’t matter what they’re getting paid, but it definitely bothers some.

[somuchyummy]

Time for a Jaden thread.

I was thinking of the players I'm most disappointed in this year - and unfortunately Jaden heads the list. Kyle hasn't been his usual self, but we don't even know if he'll be here next year (or even thru the trading period). Shake is a total whiff on an FA we thought would spark our O, but again- no guaranteed money into next year. Moore Jr. is likely a 98% late first round whiff. It happens. And I'll include Lenny on this Top 5 list - not because of his doing, but because it looked like we stole a gem out of the draft, but have nothing to show for it because Finch has had him on the floor for a total of 11 minutes.

But Jaden? He's been mentioned as a core piece moving forward. One of our long term untouchables. So the stakes are way higher with him in terms of success or failure. I don't know. For one thing, our team ascended to the top of the league's D list when Jaden was injured and not on the floor. He's a very good defender - but not the key factor of our good D. That's more teamwide and centered around Rudy. If it's the plan that he's out there to stop the great perimeter scorers, there are some huge wrinkles in that plan. Kyrie and Luka combined for 71 last night - Jaden had 2. And you can, of course, just say "bad game" - but the fact remains that his offense as a starter is more hit than miss. He's played 25 games this year - in nearly half (12) he's scored between 0-10 points. Only three games with 20-21. He's becoming a $22M Matisse Thybulle - but I'd argue that Thybulle is probably the better defender. Whatever - I no longer think he's untouchable tradewise. Maybe we move Jaden for the young PG and keep KAT.

Thoughts?

What about Alexander Walker? You happy or disappointed in him? People here rant and rave about him after a good game, but quiet about him most of the other games.

i think he's a multi-skilled energetic decent bench player who we're paying about $9M this year thru the next - his value at that is fine, especially because he defends well. Jaden starts a five year $136M deal next season and the stakes for that to work out are much higher. I don't think he's playing up to that this year - and to expect him to flip a switch next year is wishful thinking. For any NBA player, once you start making mid-20s and up, you are expected to be consistently really good to great. Does that describe Jaden right now?

[witljon]

Time for a Jaden thread.

I was thinking of the players I'm most disappointed in this year - and unfortunately Jaden heads the list. Kyle hasn't been his usual self, but we don't even know if he'll be here next year (or even thru the trading period). Shake is a total whiff on an FA we thought would spark our O, but again- no guaranteed money into next year. Moore Jr. is likely a 98% late first round whiff. It happens. And I'll include Lenny on this Top 5 list - not because of his doing, but because it looked like we stole a gem out of the draft, but have nothing to show for it because Finch has had him on the floor for a total of 11 minutes.

But Jaden? He's been mentioned as a core piece moving forward. One of our long term untouchables. So the stakes are way higher with him in terms of success or failure. I don't know. For one thing, our team ascended to the top of the league's D list when Jaden was injured and not on the floor. He's a very good defender - but not the key factor of our good D. That's more teamwide and centered around Rudy. If it's the plan that he's out there to stop the great perimeter scorers, there are some huge wrinkles in that plan. Kyrie and Luka combined for 71 last night - Jaden had 2. And you can, of course, just say "bad game" - but the fact remains that his offense as a starter is more hit than miss. He's played 25 games this year - in nearly half (12) he's scored between 0-10 points. Only three games with 20-21. He's becoming a $22M Matisse Thybulle - but I'd argue that Thybulle is probably the better defender. Whatever - I no longer think he's untouchable tradewise. Maybe we move Jaden for the young PG and keep KAT.

Thoughts?

What about Alexander Walker? You happy or disappointed in him? People here rant and rave about him after a good game, but quiet about him most of the other games.

i think he's a multi-skilled energetic decent bench player who we're paying about $9M this year thru the next - his value at that is fine, especially because he defends well. Jaden starts a five year $136M deal next season and the stakes for that to work out are much higher. I don't think he's playing up to that this year - and to expect him to flip a switch next year is wishful thinking. For any NBA player, once you start making mid-20s and up, you are expected to be consistently really good to great. Does that describe Jaden right now?

Again, it doesn’t matter (bother me) to me what players are getting paid.
So, you’re not disappointed in Alexander Walkers play?

[somuchyummy]

actually no. i'm not disappointed in him. He's had off nights - he's had good nights. he certainly filled a void when Jaden was injured and we needed someone to step up. We went 8-2 in those ten games - and NAW's numbers during that time were about the same as Jaden's for the year. So the wheels didn't fall off the bus with Jaden out. So, yeah, for $4M I think we're getting pretty good value as bench guys go.

And i disagree with you about not worrying about what we pay guys. Jaden's making just $3.9M this season - but there's the looming mid-20s for five years on the horizon - and yes, that does impact how else you can structure your team. He's been playing big minutes in his career because he's earned it and generally been our best option - but those big minutes will continue as an obligation with the bigger contract whether he's earning it or not. I feel like he's definitely stagnated this year, so it's concerning. Whether or not NAW is disappointing is a much smaller question than whether or not Jaden is.

[weimy froob]

jaden needed to hit that corner three last night at his normal rate. he didn't and his low point total cost the team.

[Jimi_Thing]

I'm still very positive overall in regards to Jaden. Him trying to feed the ball (especially lob attempts) to Gobert is hard to watch.

[somuchyummy]

i don't think any moves will be made in season. we're doing too well. just discussion fodder - and i guess the point i'm making is that IMO Jaden isn't untouchable.

if we do anything, I'd like to fill out the roster with a couple more recently released vets - i like both guys Portland just let go and think both bring something to the table that we could use. Ish Wainwright and Skylar Mays. It would merely involve swapping Mays in for Nix on a two way - and signing Ish to the open roster spot. Very little upheaval involved - unless you're a big Nix guy.

[Beef Supreme]

Definitely a concern, for this year at least. I just haven’t been consistently impressed with him this year.

But I’m not panicking or making any drastic moves over it.


I worry about him being hotheaded, though.

[somuchyummy]

i worry more just about the offensive skill set. He's a starter who often scores 10 or less points per game. He's averaging 9 something - on a team that could use more scoring. And with the lack of rebounding and playmaking - it's a concern. I think there's been a lot of wishful thinking that he's going to blossom offensively (I know I've been guilty of it), but it all might simply be wishful thinking. Anyway, I would no longer immediately hang up if anyone made an offer. Hear it out.

[TheLokNesMonster]

No offense but I think many of you are overvaluing J-Mac. For what he is being paid the Wolves are not getting a good return on their investment as of yet. Hope he takes the next step and soon...

Agree. The Wolves seemed to have moved beyond keeping guys like this because they don’t think they can upgrade. Plus they have an investment in him, both time and money.

Move him. He still has an upside, just not here.

[Hornets]

i worry more just about the offensive skill set. He's a starter who often scores 10 or less points per game. He's averaging 9 something - on a team that could use more scoring. And with the lack of rebounding and playmaking - it's a concern. I think there's been a lot of wishful thinking that he's going to blossom offensively (I know I've been guilty of it), but it all might simply be wishful thinking. Anyway, I would no longer immediately hang up if anyone made an offer. Hear it out.

My feelings exactly!

[SHAFA]

i worry more just about the offensive skill set. He's a starter who often scores 10 or less points per game. He's averaging 9 something - on a team that could use more scoring. And with the lack of rebounding and playmaking - it's a concern. I think there's been a lot of wishful thinking that he's going to blossom offensively (I know I've been guilty of it), but it all might simply be wishful thinking. Anyway, I would no longer immediately hang up if anyone made an offer. Hear it out.

I’ve never really seen anything from him that made me think he’d be more that a low-teens scorer at most. He’s got a nice shot and a decent touch, he’s just always kinda been…wooden, I guess?

[somuchyummy]

It becomes a problem with two other starting lynchpins, Rudy and Mike averaging 12.5 and 11.4. it would be great if that fifth starter - jaden- was hitting about 16 per game instead of 9.7. too much nightly pressure on Ant and KAT to get 55-60. And the wrinkle in this is that our best bench scorer Naz plays the same position as two of our highest mpg starters.

[Ask Not]

I wonder about his BBIQ. He cuts okay on offense and can take smaller, poor defenders off the dribble, but that's about it on offense. When's the last time you saw him drive and dish or make a skip pass for a big 3?

On defense he's a great on-ball defender, but when does his wing span come into play otherwise? Why is he never near a rebound? And most importantly, he can't be a defensive factor if he's sitting on the bench 4 minutes into the game with 2 fouls like he is most nights. He plays as if he's a luxury to have on the floor - I get the sense he's a low-accountability guy.

All that said, it's a different team without a 7 foot wingspan at the point of attack on D. That's a separator for the Wolves.

[somuchyummy]

I disagree about the low accountability. Immature yeah, but anyone who makes D their primary focus is doing the grind and doing the hard work that takes persistence. But maturity and bbiq can be questioned, i guess. As can his offensive ceiling.

[Beef Supreme]

I wonder about his BBIQ. He cuts okay on offense and can take smaller, poor defenders off the dribble, but that's about it on offense. When's the last time you saw him drive and dish or make a skip pass for a big 3?

On defense he's a great on-ball defender, but when does his wing span come into play otherwise? Why is he never near a rebound? And most importantly, he can't be a defensive factor if he's sitting on the bench 4 minutes into the game with 2 fouls like he is most nights. He plays as if he's a luxury to have on the floor - I get the sense he's a low-accountability guy.

All that said, it's a different team without a 7 foot wingspan at the point of attack on D. That's a separator for the Wolves.

Maybe he’s bored.

[weimy froob]

I wonder about his BBIQ. He cuts okay on offense and can take smaller, poor defenders off the dribble, but that's about it on offense. When's the last time you saw him drive and dish or make a skip pass for a big 3?

On defense he's a great on-ball defender, but when does his wing span come into play otherwise? Why is he never near a rebound? And most importantly, he can't be a defensive factor if he's sitting on the bench 4 minutes into the game with 2 fouls like he is most nights. He plays as if he's a luxury to have on the floor - I get the sense he's a low-accountability guy.

All that said, it's a different team without a 7 foot wingspan at the point of attack on D. That's a separator for the Wolves.

you have to take the bad with the good and hope that the good part gets better as the season moves along and the bad part is lessened. if he gets smarter with fouls and hitting that corner three at 40 percent then all the other good stuff will be magnified. Ant's good has been getting better and his bad is not so blatant lately. here's hoping that jaden can follow in those steps.

[somuchyummy]

i think one of the thorns about Jaden's development is that he's hit a bump in his fourth year. Usually a good rookie might have that soph slump, then bounce back with a good third year. Jaden's development has been more smooth - until this year. he hasn't fallen off a cliff or anything - but all his numbers across the board are down - and that's not what you want in a core piece in his fourth season. This is when he should really be hitting his stride - the game slowing down - and things should be coming easier for him, not harder.

[weimy froob]

i think one of the thorns about Jaden's development is that he's hit a bump in his fourth year. Usually a good rookie might have that soph slump, then bounce back with a good third year. Jaden's development has been more smooth - until this year. he hasn't fallen off a cliff or anything - but all his numbers across the board are down - and that's not what you want in a core piece in his fourth season. This is when he should really be hitting his stride - the game slowing down - and things should be coming easier for him, not harder.

what's his shooting percentage--both twos and threes compared to last year? i think with KAT playing this year his shot totals might be lower--but that's no excuse for his percentage to be down. i'm expecting bounce back games after that one in dallas.