Rushing Yards this Year

[Norn_Iron]

There's been a bit of back and forth about Mattison being crap, Chandler being wasted by KOC, Cook should have stayed.

So just for a laugh, here are the Rushing stats for the season for, Chandler, Doubs, Mattison, Cook and Akers.

-------- Attempts----Yards ----TD----Fumbles-------YPC
1) ---------90 -------- 392------ 3--------0 ------------ 4.4
2) ---------22 -------- 29-------- 1------ 0 -------------1.3
3) ---------173 --------676-------0------ 3 -------------3.9
4) ---------67 --------214 --------0-------2-------------3.2
5) ---------30 --------163--------3--------6-------------5.4

Not as tricky as I thought lol

Anyone want to guess which is which without googling it?

[hategreenticemase]

There's been a bit of back and forth about Mattison being crap, Chandler being wasted by KOC, Cook should have stayed.

So just for a laugh, here are the Rushing stats for the season for, Chandler, Doubs, Mattison, Cook and Akers.

-------- Attempts----Yards ----TD----Fumbles-------YPC
1) ---------90 -------- 392------ 3--------0 ------------ 4.4
2) ---------22 -------- 29-------- 1------ 0 -------------1.3
3) ---------173 --------676-------0------ 3 -------------3.9
4) ---------67 --------214 --------0-------2-------------3.2
5) ---------30 --------163--------3--------6-------------5.4

Not as tricky as I thought lol

Anyone want to guess which is which without googling it?

Ah yeah, ain't real hard to figure out or unsurprising. Chandler clearly the best option, but he is problematic as they haven't to date been able to fix his pass protection woes. Otherwise he's a pretty solid back with decent production. Is also their best option by far in the screen game, albeit they can't seem to execute screens for s***. When they do he is pretty good as he is patient and uses blockers.

Chandler is rb1 by default currently, and they better be able to figure out how to fix his pass pro. If they do he could be a good part of a tandem going forward - the other half of the tandem to be a guy not yet drafted or acquired. If they can't fix it then he's an RB2 at best. I will say this, the guy is an effort player so there's no way I'm going to put it on him if they can't fix that issue. This isn't an Adrian Peterson scenario where the guys in all world talent and just doesn't give a f*** about pass protection and therefore you just live with it. My point being, clearly that's a coaching issue. Should be fixed this offseason. If not that's on the coaching staff.

[TheLokNesMonster]

Chandler is like Darrin Nelson. He couldn’t block either, but he was a damn good player.

[cunningham]

There's been a bit of back and forth about Mattison being crap, Chandler being wasted by KOC, Cook should have stayed.

So just for a laugh, here are the Rushing stats for the season for, Chandler, Doubs, Mattison, Cook and Akers.

-------- Attempts----Yards ----TD----Fumbles-------YPC
1) ---------90 -------- 392------ 3--------0 ------------ 4.4
2) ---------22 -------- 29-------- 1------ 0 -------------1.3
3) ---------173 --------676-------0------ 3 -------------3.9
4) ---------67 --------214 --------0-------2-------------3.2
5) ---------30 --------163--------3--------6-------------5.4

Not as tricky as I thought lol

Anyone want to guess which is which without googling it?

You are really upset about Mattison not being properly recognized. I won't Google it, but my guess would be that Cook didn't do jack this year on the Jets. He was behind another back, which is funny because we paid him like he was one of the best in the league. Chandler was the first back to go over 100 yards in a Vikings game since 2022. And that last one was Cook. Mattison has 7 drops this season and 3 fumbles. Only 9 receivers in the entire NFL have more drops than Mattison did. And those were receivers.

[Hornets]

SO many holes on this team. The time to blow things up is here but Qwesi won't do it. Alas, we'll be mired in mediocrity for years to come...

[hategreenticemase]

Chandler is like Darrin Nelson. He couldn’t block either, but he was a damn good player.

Fuck that squeaky voiced, disco loving biach.

[TheLokNesMonster]

Chandler is like Darrin Nelson. He couldn’t block either, but he was a damn good player.

Fuck that squeaky voiced, disco loving biach.

[hategreenticemase]

Chandler is like Darrin Nelson. He couldn’t block either, but he was a damn good player.

Fuck that squeaky voiced, disco loving biach.

I hated that fucker. Had I had the power to erase him from the earth with a push of the button upon his dropping the ball in Wash, he would have been no more.

[Norn_Iron]

There's been a bit of back and forth about Mattison being crap, Chandler being wasted by KOC, Cook should have stayed.

So just for a laugh, here are the Rushing stats for the season for, Chandler, Doubs, Mattison, Cook and Akers.

-------- Attempts----Yards ----TD----Fumbles-------YPC
1) ---------90 -------- 392------ 3--------0 ------------ 4.4
2) ---------22 -------- 29-------- 1------ 0 -------------1.3
3) ---------173 --------676-------0------ 3 -------------3.9
4) ---------67 --------214 --------0-------2-------------3.2
5) ---------30 --------163--------3--------6-------------5.4

Not as tricky as I thought lol

Anyone want to guess which is which without googling it?

You are really upset about Mattison not being properly recognized. I won't Google it, but my guess would be that Cook didn't do jack this year on the Jets. He was behind another back, which is funny because we paid him like he was one of the best in the league. Chandler was the first back to go over 100 yards in a Vikings game since 2022. And that last one was Cook. Mattison has 7 drops this season and 3 fumbles. Only 9 receivers in the entire NFL have more drops than Mattison did. And those were receivers.

I'm not upset about Mattison, I just maintain that he was a better fit here this season than Cook would have been. We are a pass first offense, and obviously that got wrecked when Cousins calf exploded.

And just to address the often repeated lie that we sucked this year under Cousins, we were an absolute turnover machine at the start of season. I think only 1 of those was a Cousins interception, the rest fumbles by just about everyone on offense including JJ.

Anyway Cook had 2 fumbles in just over a third as many snaps as Mattison, and that before the season even started is why I said I wanted to move on. That doesn't excuse Mattison his 3 fumbles as that's no good either, but I sure as shit don't want Cook back. That also does not mean he was a bad player for us, he wasn't, but he isn't what we need at this point.

[Hector]

I'm not sure how we fix the running game next year. Josh Jacobs is a free agent but his productivity is about as unpredictable as it gets.

[witljon]

I'm not sure how we fix the running game next year. Josh Jacobs is a free agent but his productivity is about as unpredictable as it gets.

Better run blocking would help

[cunningham]

I'm not sure how we fix the running game next year. Josh Jacobs is a free agent but his productivity is about as unpredictable as it gets.

KOC calls fewer rushes than most teams. That put a ton of pressure on the quarterback. Mix that in with Mattison fumbling and dropping passes and we really put way too much on Cousins.

I’ve said for years that Cousins’ best year(s) here were with Stefanski calling plays. And look at Cleveland now. Making the playoffs and us watching from the outside. The Browns also are at the top of the league for time of possession while we are on the opposite end.

Last season with Cook we were way better and made the playoffs. This year we struggled in the run game - with the exception of Chandler and Akers doing more.

KOC needs to fix the run game because no quarterback will be successful in his offense with the amount of burden placed on him. Even when Dobbs, Mullens, and Hall were out there we still went pass heavy. Mullens threw for over 400 yards in a game. He also turned it over 4 times.

To win in December and the playoffs you have to have a really great run game. Things just get too tight and your quarterback can only be expected to do so much.

[Oriole81]

I find myself often comparing us to the Rams, considering that was KOC's most recent stop.

Rams too drafted a RB in the 5th rd in 2022.
Their guy is going to finish the season with 1300 yards and 15 TDs.

Hard not to get discouraged.

[Norn_Iron]

I'm not sure how we fix the running game next year. Josh Jacobs is a free agent but his productivity is about as unpredictable as it gets.

KOC calls fewer rushes than most teams. That put a ton of pressure on the quarterback. Mix that in with Mattison fumbling and dropping passes and we really put way too much on Cousins.

I’ve said for years that Cousins’ best year(s) here were with Stefanski calling plays. And look at Cleveland now. Making the playoffs and us watching from the outside. The Browns also are at the top of the league for time of possession while we are on the opposite end.

Last season with Cook we were way better and made the playoffs. This year we struggled in the run game - with the exception of Chandler and Akers doing more.

KOC needs to fix the run game because no quarterback will be successful in his offense with the amount of burden placed on him. Even when Dobbs, Mullens, and Hall were out there we still went pass heavy. Mullens threw for over 400 yards in a game. He also turned it over 4 times.

To win in December and the playoffs you have to have a really great run game. Things just get too tight and your quarterback can only be expected to do so much.

Are you actually Mike Zimmer? It would explain a lot

Akers on a very small sample size did the square route of f##k all

You call me out as a Mattison lover, I'm actually not. I just don't think he deserves the shit you and HGTM throw at him.

We have had years where we were a run first offense through Peterson, and I guess a bit through Cook. IT was something that always made me laugh, Zimmer was an 'Old School' coach where he wanted to fight in the trenches. That's fine, but our O-line and D-line regressed so much under him (and Rick) it was unreal.

Anyway point being, KOC has come in and made us a pass first offense which given the money we are/were throwing cousins makes sense. Also its a modern day NFL offense. Our record is incredible given our QB went down week 8, and our Turnover ratio is the 29th ranked in the league.

We have a good team, that can do stuff in the playoffs but injuries have killed us this season

Next year, who knows? But I hope we keep Flores and help him

[Night Train]

Something something about if Mattison doesn't get a TD this week, it will be the first time in Viking history, or maybe even NFL history that a team's leading rusher didn't garner a TD.

[hategreenticemase]

I'm not sure how we fix the running game next year. Josh Jacobs is a free agent but his productivity is about as unpredictable as it gets.

KOC calls fewer rushes than most teams. That put a ton of pressure on the quarterback. Mix that in with Mattison fumbling and dropping passes and we really put way too much on Cousins.

I’ve said for years that Cousins’ best year(s) here were with Stefanski calling plays. And look at Cleveland now. Making the playoffs and us watching from the outside. The Browns also are at the top of the league for time of possession while we are on the opposite end.

Last season with Cook we were way better and made the playoffs. This year we struggled in the run game - with the exception of Chandler and Akers doing more.

KOC needs to fix the run game because no quarterback will be successful in his offense with the amount of burden placed on him. Even when Dobbs, Mullens, and Hall were out there we still went pass heavy. Mullens threw for over 400 yards in a game. He also turned it over 4 times.

To win in December and the playoffs you have to have a really great run game. Things just get too tight and your quarterback can only be expected to do so much.

Are you actually Mike Zimmer? It would explain a lot

Akers on a very small sample size did the square route of f##k all

You call me out as a Mattison lover, I'm actually not. I just don't think he deserves the shit you and HGTM throw at him.

We have had years where we were a run first offense through Peterson, and I guess a bit through Cook. IT was something that always made me laugh, Zimmer was an 'Old School' coach where he wanted to fight in the trenches. That's fine, but our O-line and D-line regressed so much under him (and Rick) it was unreal.

Anyway point being, KOC has come in and made us a pass first offense which given the money we are/were throwing cousins makes sense. Also its a modern day NFL offense. Our record is incredible given our QB went down week 8, and our Turnover ratio is the 29th ranked in the league.

We have a good team, that can do stuff in the playoffs but injuries have killed us this season

Next year, who knows? But I hope we keep Flores and help him

What is Mattison good at? Pass pro? Ya, ok, he is at least solid. He runs hard with physicality. He is a high effort guy. He is tough. I will concede those things.

Will you concede he has BAD vision and misses holes? He has no patience or ability to use blockers? He is slow to the hole? He is below avg catching passes and ball security?

His role was perfect as a thumping back up to Dalvin, a decent compliment to a diff style. That said, 4th and a foot, he is literally the last thumping/physical back I would want to get the carry because he won't see the hole or hit it soon enough which is exactly why he has no TD. He isn't a rb1, never has been and thats not his fault, but it's factual.

[cunningham]

I'm not sure how we fix the running game next year. Josh Jacobs is a free agent but his productivity is about as unpredictable as it gets.

KOC calls fewer rushes than most teams. That put a ton of pressure on the quarterback. Mix that in with Mattison fumbling and dropping passes and we really put way too much on Cousins.

I’ve said for years that Cousins’ best year(s) here were with Stefanski calling plays. And look at Cleveland now. Making the playoffs and us watching from the outside. The Browns also are at the top of the league for time of possession while we are on the opposite end.

Last season with Cook we were way better and made the playoffs. This year we struggled in the run game - with the exception of Chandler and Akers doing more.

KOC needs to fix the run game because no quarterback will be successful in his offense with the amount of burden placed on him. Even when Dobbs, Mullens, and Hall were out there we still went pass heavy. Mullens threw for over 400 yards in a game. He also turned it over 4 times.

To win in December and the playoffs you have to have a really great run game. Things just get too tight and your quarterback can only be expected to do so much.

Are you actually Mike Zimmer? It would explain a lot

Akers on a very small sample size did the square route of f##k all

You call me out as a Mattison lover, I'm actually not. I just don't think he deserves the shit you and HGTM throw at him.

We have had years where we were a run first offense through Peterson, and I guess a bit through Cook. IT was something that always made me laugh, Zimmer was an 'Old School' coach where he wanted to fight in the trenches. That's fine, but our O-line and D-line regressed so much under him (and Rick) it was unreal.

Anyway point being, KOC has come in and made us a pass first offense which given the money we are/were throwing cousins makes sense. Also its a modern day NFL offense. Our record is incredible given our QB went down week 8, and our Turnover ratio is the 29th ranked in the league.

We have a good team, that can do stuff in the playoffs but injuries have killed us this season

Next year, who knows? But I hope we keep Flores and help him

I am a fan of Zimmer and played defense into college - so I am biased. I loved when Stefanski relied on the run a lot more than Defillippo, since then the reliance on Kirk Cousins has not been successful. Cook was way better than Mattison and last season we had a much better record. This season Cousins had arguably better numbers, but he had zero help from the run game. When Chandler and Akers got more touches we started to do much better.

I don't think Cook or Mattison were nearly good enough. I worry that KOC doesn't know when to call the run or which run will compliment his pass game the best. There is a ton of nuance in a run game.

[Hornets]

If you have 2 first round WR's and one of them is HOF bound, plus an elite pass catching TE, you are going to be a pass first team. Yes, we can improve the run game but the ball needs to be in the air with this bunch!

[Norn_Iron]

KOC calls fewer rushes than most teams. That put a ton of pressure on the quarterback. Mix that in with Mattison fumbling and dropping passes and we really put way too much on Cousins.

I’ve said for years that Cousins’ best year(s) here were with Stefanski calling plays. And look at Cleveland now. Making the playoffs and us watching from the outside. The Browns also are at the top of the league for time of possession while we are on the opposite end.

Last season with Cook we were way better and made the playoffs. This year we struggled in the run game - with the exception of Chandler and Akers doing more.

KOC needs to fix the run game because no quarterback will be successful in his offense with the amount of burden placed on him. Even when Dobbs, Mullens, and Hall were out there we still went pass heavy. Mullens threw for over 400 yards in a game. He also turned it over 4 times.

To win in December and the playoffs you have to have a really great run game. Things just get too tight and your quarterback can only be expected to do so much.

Are you actually Mike Zimmer? It would explain a lot

Akers on a very small sample size did the square route of f##k all

You call me out as a Mattison lover, I'm actually not. I just don't think he deserves the shit you and HGTM throw at him.

We have had years where we were a run first offense through Peterson, and I guess a bit through Cook. IT was something that always made me laugh, Zimmer was an 'Old School' coach where he wanted to fight in the trenches. That's fine, but our O-line and D-line regressed so much under him (and Rick) it was unreal.

Anyway point being, KOC has come in and made us a pass first offense which given the money we are/were throwing cousins makes sense. Also its a modern day NFL offense. Our record is incredible given our QB went down week 8, and our Turnover ratio is the 29th ranked in the league.

We have a good team, that can do stuff in the playoffs but injuries have killed us this season

Next year, who knows? But I hope we keep Flores and help him

I am a fan of Zimmer and played defense into college - so I am biased. I loved when Stefanski relied on the run a lot more than Defillippo, since then the reliance on Kirk Cousins has not been successful. Cook was way better than Mattison and last season we had a much better record. This season Cousins had arguably better numbers, but he had zero help from the run game. When Chandler and Akers got more touches we started to do much better.

I don't think Cook or Mattison were nearly good enough. I worry that KOC doesn't know when to call the run or which run will compliment his pass game the best. There is a ton of nuance in a run game.

We brought KOC in to make us a pass first offense and get more value out of Kirk, that was always going to be at the expense of the running game, and we are a far better team for it as well.

You cant compare this season to last because of Cousins going down. I mean even harking back to the Ponder years, even him going down would have had a significant impact on the team, and it goes without saying, but is worth repeating Ponder was absolute garbage

[Oriole81]

If you have 2 first round WR's and one of them is HOF bound, plus an elite pass catching TE, you are going to be a pass first team. Yes, we can improve the run game but the ball needs to be in the air with this bunch!

Conversely, that should also make it easier to run.

The Rams sent a 2022 5th rd RB to the pro bowl this year.
We too drafted a RB in the 5th rd in 2022.

It's not luck that there's just happens to look more effective.

[hategreenticemase]

If you have 2 first round WR's and one of them is HOF bound, plus an elite pass catching TE, you are going to be a pass first team. Yes, we can improve the run game but the ball needs to be in the air with this bunch!

Conversely, that should also make it easier to run.

The Rams sent a 2022 5th rd RB to the pro bowl this year.
We too drafted a RB in the 5th rd in 2022.

It's not luck that there's just happens to look more effective.

This. We had a quality back last year, and the whole off season mission was to "get more creative with Cook". Fail. Epic fail. This last offseason he incorrectly thought Mattison could be the guy, unless that is on Kwesi. Then, he wasted 2/3 of the season til he finally figured out he has a decent option in Chandler (albeit flawed with pass pro issues).

The plan sucks. The commitment to it sucks. And as Mlhouse pointed out, the pass design to back sucks - fuck i was so excited about cook last year for that reason and we got one wheel route TD.

It's a KOC weakness and it's on him, every thing I said above, is on him.

[cunningham]

Are you actually Mike Zimmer? It would explain a lot

Akers on a very small sample size did the square route of f##k all

You call me out as a Mattison lover, I'm actually not. I just don't think he deserves the shit you and HGTM throw at him.

We have had years where we were a run first offense through Peterson, and I guess a bit through Cook. IT was something that always made me laugh, Zimmer was an 'Old School' coach where he wanted to fight in the trenches. That's fine, but our O-line and D-line regressed so much under him (and Rick) it was unreal.

Anyway point being, KOC has come in and made us a pass first offense which given the money we are/were throwing cousins makes sense. Also its a modern day NFL offense. Our record is incredible given our QB went down week 8, and our Turnover ratio is the 29th ranked in the league.

We have a good team, that can do stuff in the playoffs but injuries have killed us this season

Next year, who knows? But I hope we keep Flores and help him

I am a fan of Zimmer and played defense into college - so I am biased. I loved when Stefanski relied on the run a lot more than Defillippo, since then the reliance on Kirk Cousins has not been successful. Cook was way better than Mattison and last season we had a much better record. This season Cousins had arguably better numbers, but he had zero help from the run game. When Chandler and Akers got more touches we started to do much better.

I don't think Cook or Mattison were nearly good enough. I worry that KOC doesn't know when to call the run or which run will compliment his pass game the best. There is a ton of nuance in a run game.

We brought KOC in to make us a pass first offense and get more value out of Kirk, that was always going to be at the expense of the running game, and we are a far better team for it as well.

You cant compare this season to last because of Cousins going down. I mean even harking back to the Ponder years, even him going down would have had a significant impact on the team, and it goes without saying, but is worth repeating Ponder was absolute garbage

I agree, but teams that win late in the season usually have a strong run game. Things get very tight at the end of the season - especially for quarterbacks.

I don't think that Kirk is capable of being a quarterback who can be leaned on as much as his contract asks for. He has a great deep ball and in the redzone he is money, but he can struggle with short passes and keeping drives going. I like that he always is pushing it down the field and that he doesn't turn the ball over, but he lacks that last gear that gets a guy to the Super Bowl. He is almost robotic in some ways.

I will give KOC a pass for this season, but the leash should tighten if we try to do this again next season. We need a way better running back(s) than we had this season. Chandler has come along nicely, but he is pretty small to be a #1 guy. Mattison isn't good enough and regressed as the season went on. If we are going to resign Cousins, which all signs point to, we need to take a runningback or two high in draft. Not round 1, but maybe not wait until round 3. We might not have many picks if we move up for a quarterback and we will be cash strapped if we resign Cousins.

Our GM needs to really hit the late rounders if we bet the farm and move up. Which, with Flores, we ended up using a lot of late rounders to get the defense to be pretty good.

[Oriole81]

I am a fan of Zimmer and played defense into college - so I am biased. I loved when Stefanski relied on the run a lot more than Defillippo, since then the reliance on Kirk Cousins has not been successful. Cook was way better than Mattison and last season we had a much better record. This season Cousins had arguably better numbers, but he had zero help from the run game. When Chandler and Akers got more touches we started to do much better.

I don't think Cook or Mattison were nearly good enough. I worry that KOC doesn't know when to call the run or which run will compliment his pass game the best. There is a ton of nuance in a run game.

We brought KOC in to make us a pass first offense and get more value out of Kirk, that was always going to be at the expense of the running game, and we are a far better team for it as well.

You cant compare this season to last because of Cousins going down. I mean even harking back to the Ponder years, even him going down would have had a significant impact on the team, and it goes without saying, but is worth repeating Ponder was absolute garbage

I agree, but teams that win late in the season usually have a strong run game. Things get very tight at the end of the season - especially for quarterbacks.

I don't think that Kirk is capable of being a quarterback who can be leaned on as much as his contract asks for. He has a great deep ball and in the redzone he is money, but he can struggle with short passes and keeping drives going. I like that he always is pushing it down the field and that he doesn't turn the ball over, but he lacks that last gear that gets a guy to the Super Bowl. He is almost robotic in some ways.

I will give KOC a pass for this season, but the leash should tighten if we try to do this again next season. We need a way better running back(s) than we had this season. Chandler has come along nicely, but he is pretty small to be a #1 guy. Mattison isn't good enough and regressed as the season went on. If we are going to resign Cousins, which all signs point to, we need to take a runningback or two high in draft. Not round 1, but maybe not wait until round 3. We might not have many picks if we move up for a quarterback and we will be cash strapped if we resign Cousins.

Our GM needs to really hit the late rounders if we bet the farm and move up. Which, with Flores, we ended up using a lot of late rounders to get the defense to be pretty good.

But you also can't pass up the DL strength in RD2 either, when there's not going to be a star RB prospect anyway. Treyveon Henderson will probably go in RD2, but its not like he's a great prospect that should go in RD1 (like Breece Hall of recent) but falls just because the perceived devaluation of the position. He's a RD2 RB.

In RD4 you may be able to get a power compliment like Corum or Estime, a long shot at Braelon Allen, so they are going to have to make due with less.

[hategreenticemase]

We brought KOC in to make us a pass first offense and get more value out of Kirk, that was always going to be at the expense of the running game, and we are a far better team for it as well.

You cant compare this season to last because of Cousins going down. I mean even harking back to the Ponder years, even him going down would have had a significant impact on the team, and it goes without saying, but is worth repeating Ponder was absolute garbage

I agree, but teams that win late in the season usually have a strong run game. Things get very tight at the end of the season - especially for quarterbacks.

I don't think that Kirk is capable of being a quarterback who can be leaned on as much as his contract asks for. He has a great deep ball and in the redzone he is money, but he can struggle with short passes and keeping drives going. I like that he always is pushing it down the field and that he doesn't turn the ball over, but he lacks that last gear that gets a guy to the Super Bowl. He is almost robotic in some ways.

I will give KOC a pass for this season, but the leash should tighten if we try to do this again next season. We need a way better running back(s) than we had this season. Chandler has come along nicely, but he is pretty small to be a #1 guy. Mattison isn't good enough and regressed as the season went on. If we are going to resign Cousins, which all signs point to, we need to take a runningback or two high in draft. Not round 1, but maybe not wait until round 3. We might not have many picks if we move up for a quarterback and we will be cash strapped if we resign Cousins.

Our GM needs to really hit the late rounders if we bet the farm and move up. Which, with Flores, we ended up using a lot of late rounders to get the defense to be pretty good.

But you also can't pass up the DL strength in RD2 either, when there's not going to be a star RB prospect anyway. Treyveon Henderson will probably go in RD2, but its not like he's a great prospect that should go in RD1 (like Breece Hall of recent) but falls just because the perceived devaluation of the position. He's a RD2 RB.

In RD4 you may be able to get a power compliment like Corum or Estime, a long shot at Braelon Allen, so they are going to have to make due with less.

Why on earth would this team want to spend a high draft pick on a rb? It values and uses rb like most teams do punters.

[Oriole81]

I agree, but teams that win late in the season usually have a strong run game. Things get very tight at the end of the season - especially for quarterbacks.

I don't think that Kirk is capable of being a quarterback who can be leaned on as much as his contract asks for. He has a great deep ball and in the redzone he is money, but he can struggle with short passes and keeping drives going. I like that he always is pushing it down the field and that he doesn't turn the ball over, but he lacks that last gear that gets a guy to the Super Bowl. He is almost robotic in some ways.

I will give KOC a pass for this season, but the leash should tighten if we try to do this again next season. We need a way better running back(s) than we had this season. Chandler has come along nicely, but he is pretty small to be a #1 guy. Mattison isn't good enough and regressed as the season went on. If we are going to resign Cousins, which all signs point to, we need to take a runningback or two high in draft. Not round 1, but maybe not wait until round 3. We might not have many picks if we move up for a quarterback and we will be cash strapped if we resign Cousins.

Our GM needs to really hit the late rounders if we bet the farm and move up. Which, with Flores, we ended up using a lot of late rounders to get the defense to be pretty good.

But you also can't pass up the DL strength in RD2 either, when there's not going to be a star RB prospect anyway. Treyveon Henderson will probably go in RD2, but its not like he's a great prospect that should go in RD1 (like Breece Hall of recent) but falls just because the perceived devaluation of the position. He's a RD2 RB.

In RD4 you may be able to get a power compliment like Corum or Estime, a long shot at Braelon Allen, so they are going to have to make due with less.

Why on earth would this team want to spend a high draft pick on a rb? It values and uses rb like most teams do punters.

You have to figure it out with what they have/can reasonably afford, or then they need to start pulling resources from elsewhere in order to address the position.
They can't just not run the football.

[hategreenticemase]

But you also can't pass up the DL strength in RD2 either, when there's not going to be a star RB prospect anyway. Treyveon Henderson will probably go in RD2, but its not like he's a great prospect that should go in RD1 (like Breece Hall of recent) but falls just because the perceived devaluation of the position. He's a RD2 RB.

In RD4 you may be able to get a power compliment like Corum or Estime, a long shot at Braelon Allen, so they are going to have to make due with less.

Why on earth would this team want to spend a high draft pick on a rb? It values and uses rb like most teams do punters.

You have to figure it out with what they have/can reasonably afford, or then they need to start pulling resources from elsewhere in order to address the position.
They can't just not run the football.

First of all, tell that to the HC. He is the one who needs to clue in to the fact the running game could make his strong pass game even fn better, ESPECIALLY what he loves the most - downfield passing. That (his "plan" and or design for run game and lack of commitment to importance of it) is by far the biggest limiting factor.

Secondly, you missed my point. Given the first point I made the last thing I want is to spend money in free agency or high draft pick on a position we treat like P anyway.

Third, this staff has proven inept at figuring out who is, you know, a good RB. None of us could understand the commitment to Mattison. While yeah, rarely, is RC right, they definitely were there. Kene having a roster spot is a mystery of God. McBride shown nothing. And worst of all, it took an injury to Mattison for this staff to figure out that they had a way better option in Chandler, flawed with blocking issue, but literally better at every other aspect of being a rb.

Lastly, Chandler and Kieran Williams and too many other examples to list prove what you and many have said for years - rb is easiesr position to acquire cheaply.

[Oriole81]

Why on earth would this team want to spend a high draft pick on a rb? It values and uses rb like most teams do punters.

You have to figure it out with what they have/can reasonably afford, or then they need to start pulling resources from elsewhere in order to address the position.
They can't just not run the football.

First of all, tell that to the HC. He is the one who needs to clue in to the fact the running game could make his strong pass game even fn better, ESPECIALLY what he loves the most - downfield passing. That (his "plan" and or design for run game and lack of commitment to importance of it) is by far the biggest limiting factor.

Secondly, you missed my point. Given the first point I made the last thing I want is to spend money in free agency or high draft pick on a position we treat like P anyway.

Third, this staff has proven inept at figuring out who is, you know, a good RB. None of us could understand the commitment to Mattison. While yeah, rarely, is RC right, they definitely were there. Kene having a roster spot is a mystery of God. McBride shown nothing. And worst of all, it took an injury to Mattison for this staff to figure out that they had a way better option in Chandler, flawed with blocking issue, but literally better at every other aspect of being a rb.

Lastly, Chandler and Kieran Williams and too many other examples to list prove what you and many have said for years - rb is easiesr position to acquire cheaply.

If we're being honest, this is also the reason why the timeline makes the most sense to convert Cousins to a rookie scale QB.

Presuming we'll re-sign Hunter, Darrisaw and Jefferson on top of what we already have signed long term, there's only so much money to go around.
Now trust me, I know full well how much the cap can be manipulated and how you can always "make something work" if you want it to, but that's also not the same thing as just being out of the obligation once and for all.
Only teams that are truly one or two moves away from a championship should be pushing the can down the line to this extent, and I don't think we're that.

If we take the hit this year and draft our QB, then so much more real cap space will be opened up in 2025.
That way we can sign alot of defensive starters as well as re-addressing the IOL, which will in turn allow us to take a RB on Day 2 if the situation presents itself, which will make the new QB and KOC's job even easier.

Something's got to give though.
If KOC can only work the passing game, then you need to question the need for a $30M+ QB.

[hategreenticemase]

You have to figure it out with what they have/can reasonably afford, or then they need to start pulling resources from elsewhere in order to address the position.
They can't just not run the football.

First of all, tell that to the HC. He is the one who needs to clue in to the fact the running game could make his strong pass game even fn better, ESPECIALLY what he loves the most - downfield passing. That (his "plan" and or design for run game and lack of commitment to importance of it) is by far the biggest limiting factor.

Secondly, you missed my point. Given the first point I made the last thing I want is to spend money in free agency or high draft pick on a position we treat like P anyway.

Third, this staff has proven inept at figuring out who is, you know, a good RB. None of us could understand the commitment to Mattison. While yeah, rarely, is RC right, they definitely were there. Kene having a roster spot is a mystery of God. McBride shown nothing. And worst of all, it took an injury to Mattison for this staff to figure out that they had a way better option in Chandler, flawed with blocking issue, but literally better at every other aspect of being a rb.

Lastly, Chandler and Kieran Williams and too many other examples to list prove what you and many have said for years - rb is easiesr position to acquire cheaply.

If we're being honest, this is also the reason why the timeline makes the most sense to convert Cousins to a rookie scale QB.

Presuming we'll re-sign Hunter, Darrisaw and Jefferson on top of what we already have signed long term, there's only so much money to go around.
Now trust me, I know full well how much the cap can be manipulated and how you can always "make something work" if you want it to, but that's also not the same thing as just being out of the obligation once and for all.
Only teams that are truly one or two moves away from a championship should be pushing the can down the line to this extent, and I don't think we're that.

If we take the hit this year and draft our QB, then so much more real cap space will be opened up in 2025.
That way we can sign alot of defensive starters as well as re-addressing the IOL, which will in turn allow us to take a RB on Day 2 if the situation presents itself, which will make the new QB and KOC's job even easier.

Something's got to give though.
If KOC can only work the passing game, then you need to question the need for a $30M+ QB.

There is no way they do that, whether you make a case or not, because of the timing. If we go 10-7 and make the playoffs after the shit that happened, KOC has TONS OF CREDIBILITY and goodwill. He can make a "take a step back in year 3" type move like that. But, this year he has taken a semi hit, and the other moron damn sure has and he cant afford a bad year (or at least lets hope he cant). Since ultimately he is the one with final say on that, I doubt he exposes himself.

You make a good point, so understand I say this out of a different bigger picture view than the solid big pic view you painted. I think with some good picks and smart acquisitions this team can get there. We are close offensively already, ol still could use upgrading, and yeah another back - but fuck, we compare with any team in NFL at Wr1/Wr2/TE1. Defensively, we need a couple impact players, couple competitive depth players and we need Hunter. So, I think you dont waste that opportunity to compete is the first part of my answer but the 2nd one is I am a believer that a qb benefits immensely watching a year and just getting some opps here and there. And even the worst Cousins critic would admit this - what better, more team oriented, smart, and dedicated to the sport guy other than Cousins to learn from?

So yeah, ASSUMING he isnt damaged goods, I want Cousins for one year and maybe two. But, my overall point is, whichever bigger pic way is better out of yours and mine, mine is gonna be the plan as KAM cant afford the gamble.

[Oriole81]

First of all, tell that to the HC. He is the one who needs to clue in to the fact the running game could make his strong pass game even fn better, ESPECIALLY what he loves the most - downfield passing. That (his "plan" and or design for run game and lack of commitment to importance of it) is by far the biggest limiting factor.

Secondly, you missed my point. Given the first point I made the last thing I want is to spend money in free agency or high draft pick on a position we treat like P anyway.

Third, this staff has proven inept at figuring out who is, you know, a good RB. None of us could understand the commitment to Mattison. While yeah, rarely, is RC right, they definitely were there. Kene having a roster spot is a mystery of God. McBride shown nothing. And worst of all, it took an injury to Mattison for this staff to figure out that they had a way better option in Chandler, flawed with blocking issue, but literally better at every other aspect of being a rb.

Lastly, Chandler and Kieran Williams and too many other examples to list prove what you and many have said for years - rb is easiesr position to acquire cheaply.

If we're being honest, this is also the reason why the timeline makes the most sense to convert Cousins to a rookie scale QB.

Presuming we'll re-sign Hunter, Darrisaw and Jefferson on top of what we already have signed long term, there's only so much money to go around.
Now trust me, I know full well how much the cap can be manipulated and how you can always "make something work" if you want it to, but that's also not the same thing as just being out of the obligation once and for all.
Only teams that are truly one or two moves away from a championship should be pushing the can down the line to this extent, and I don't think we're that.

If we take the hit this year and draft our QB, then so much more real cap space will be opened up in 2025.
That way we can sign alot of defensive starters as well as re-addressing the IOL, which will in turn allow us to take a RB on Day 2 if the situation presents itself, which will make the new QB and KOC's job even easier.

Something's got to give though.
If KOC can only work the passing game, then you need to question the need for a $30M+ QB.

There is no way they do that, whether you make a case or not, because of the timing. If we go 10-7 and make the playoffs after the shit that happened, KOC has TONS OF CREDIBILITY and goodwill. He can make a "take a step back in year 3" type move like that. But, this year he has taken a semi hit, and the other moron damn sure has and he cant afford a bad year (or at least lets hope he cant). Since ultimately he is the one with final say on that, I doubt he exposes himself.

You make a good point, so understand I say this out of a different bigger picture view than the solid big pic view you painted. I think with some good picks and smart acquisitions this team can get there. We are close offensively already, ol still could use upgrading, and yeah another back - but fuck, we compare with any team in NFL at Wr1/Wr2/TE1. Defensively, we need a couple impact players, couple competitive depth players and we need Hunter. So, I think you dont waste that opportunity to compete is the first part of my answer but the 2nd one is I am a believer that a qb benefits immensely watching a year and just getting some opps here and there. And even the worst Cousins critic would admit this - what better, more team oriented, smart, and dedicated to the sport guy other than Cousins to learn from?

So yeah, ASSUMING he isnt damaged goods, I want Cousins for one year and maybe two. But, my overall point is, whichever bigger pic way is better out of yours and mine, mine is gonna be the plan as KAM cant afford the gamble.

I get that its probably not going to play out like that, but the way I envision this conversation in my head is like this...

KAM:
We walked into this job with the best WR in the league, and I'm willing to make him the highest paid non-QB in the league.
We walked into this job with one of the best DEs in the league and I'm willing to sign him to a massive extension into his 30s
We walked into this job with one of the best LTs in the league, and I'm willing to give him a massive extension

I traded a 2nd rd pick and gave a massive extension to a TE for you
I used our 1st rd pick for a WR to be our 3rd pass catching option because you asked me to, even though there were comparable players on the board at bigger positions of need.
I got you a DC that had the defense playing fantastic, with almost no new influx of talent

So...



At some point the economics have to be taken into account, so if what you're telling me is that you are a passing game only kind of guy and that you don't know how to do running, then how do we do that economically?

[hategreenticemase]

If we're being honest, this is also the reason why the timeline makes the most sense to convert Cousins to a rookie scale QB.

Presuming we'll re-sign Hunter, Darrisaw and Jefferson on top of what we already have signed long term, there's only so much money to go around.
Now trust me, I know full well how much the cap can be manipulated and how you can always "make something work" if you want it to, but that's also not the same thing as just being out of the obligation once and for all.
Only teams that are truly one or two moves away from a championship should be pushing the can down the line to this extent, and I don't think we're that.

If we take the hit this year and draft our QB, then so much more real cap space will be opened up in 2025.
That way we can sign alot of defensive starters as well as re-addressing the IOL, which will in turn allow us to take a RB on Day 2 if the situation presents itself, which will make the new QB and KOC's job even easier.

Something's got to give though.
If KOC can only work the passing game, then you need to question the need for a $30M+ QB.

There is no way they do that, whether you make a case or not, because of the timing. If we go 10-7 and make the playoffs after the shit that happened, KOC has TONS OF CREDIBILITY and goodwill. He can make a "take a step back in year 3" type move like that. But, this year he has taken a semi hit, and the other moron damn sure has and he cant afford a bad year (or at least lets hope he cant). Since ultimately he is the one with final say on that, I doubt he exposes himself.

You make a good point, so understand I say this out of a different bigger picture view than the solid big pic view you painted. I think with some good picks and smart acquisitions this team can get there. We are close offensively already, ol still could use upgrading, and yeah another back - but fuck, we compare with any team in NFL at Wr1/Wr2/TE1. Defensively, we need a couple impact players, couple competitive depth players and we need Hunter. So, I think you dont waste that opportunity to compete is the first part of my answer but the 2nd one is I am a believer that a qb benefits immensely watching a year and just getting some opps here and there. And even the worst Cousins critic would admit this - what better, more team oriented, smart, and dedicated to the sport guy other than Cousins to learn from?

So yeah, ASSUMING he isnt damaged goods, I want Cousins for one year and maybe two. But, my overall point is, whichever bigger pic way is better out of yours and mine, mine is gonna be the plan as KAM cant afford the gamble.

I get that its probably not going to play out like that, but the way I envision this conversation in my head is like this...

KAM:
We walked into this job with the best WR in the league, and I'm willing to make him the highest paid non-QB in the league.
We walked into this job with one of the best DEs in the league and I'm willing to sign him to a massive extension into his 30s
We walked into this job with one of the best LTs in the league, and I'm willing to give him a massive extension

I traded a 2nd rd pick and gave a massive extension to a TE for you
I used our 1st rd pick for a WR to be our 3rd pass catching option because you asked me to, even though there were comparable players on the board at bigger positions of need.
I got you a DC that had the defense playing fantastic, with almost no new influx of talent

So...



At some point the economics have to be taken into account, so if what you're telling me is that you are a passing game only kind of guy and that you don't know how to do running, then how do we do that economically?

You already know how because you admitted you are one of the few here who gets the cap. If Cousins is outrageous, then yes, I go your route. If he is reasonable in that mid 30s range, then it will all work out easily.