Early Vikings 2024 Mock Draft

[mlhouse]

http://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/sim/vikings-draft-x10-5755

First simulation with Vikings drafting at 12.

1. JJ McCarthy at 12. This simulator has McCarthy ranked 43 and maybe that is where he should be, but guys with that level of athleticism and PURE arm talent do not come in the draft often. My comp is Josh Allen who had same athleticism and arm power. This was QB5 in the first roune.

2. Maason Smith DT LSU THis is a pure swing for the fences pick looking at high upside. The guy is a freak. 6-6 315..4.80 40... Reminds me a bit of RIchard Seymour and I think he has that level of upside if he can play with control, solid pad level, and keep emotions in check. He might rocket up the draft boards after the combine because he is a pure freak athlete.

3. Brenden Rice WR USC What, another receiver? First, Rice has attributes that the current crop of receivers on teh team do not have: size and speed. He is 6-3, 215 and has track star speed. Solid hands. Second, Osborn and Powell are both UFA after season. Speedy Nailor has never been able to stay on the field even as we hear two years in row how he is crushing it in preseason he certainly did nothing this season.

4. DOubled up on CB with a tall rangy and aggressive guy like Khree Jackson and a smaller slot CB guy in Mike Sairistil. Also, I have a sleeper guy that I really like called Ja'Quan Sheppard CB Maryland. He played the season before for CIncinnati so I have seen him play a lot (watching Ivan). Love his size and aggressiveness. Priority free agent that reminds me a bit of Holten Hill or a poor man's Xavier Rhodes.

[witljon]

Sign Cousins for a couple of years while McCarthy learns?

[Beef Supreme]

We don't have a 3rd round pick.


Sell me on McCarthy's arm, because I haven't seen it. And when I mean "I haven't seen it," I literally mean that I haven't seen it. I'm not disputing it. I'm saying he hasn't displayed a lot of arm talent at Michigan. He seldom has to make big throws in big spots. Guys are usually open. He's not frequently dropping dimes in tight windows with velocity and pinpoint accuracy. I'm not anti-McCarthy, I'm McCarthy-agnostic.


If the NFL projects Smith as being able to get to the passer, and they might, then its unlikely he makes it to round two. I'd love him there if he was. Even if he's only a mediocre pass-rusher in the NFL, we need a giant athletic guy in the middle of the 3-4. If he can't rush the passer at a high level, I think he'd still be a nice fit on the interior of the DL. He might even be able to put on 10-15lbs and still be effective. Then he'd be a 330lb true NT. I see both those potential paths to success for him and would be cool with either.


I'd have to know who was available at this hypothetical 3rd round pick to know what to think of going with Rice. There's a lot to like about him, but I think the returns would be diminishing as he'd be at best the 4th receiving option behind JJ, Addison, and Hockenson. And all those guys are young and figure to be here a while. Our third pick is a hefty price to pay for insane depth at the position. None of this is anti-Rice and I agree with your overall assessment of him and I do have a bias in favor of big WRs and we lack that (I was secretly hoping N'Keal Harry would bloom here a little for that). But there would really have to be almost nothing left on the board for me to go WR. But it's moot anyway, since we don't have a 3rd and Rice almost certainly won't last until the 4th.

I like both the corners, but I like Jackson more. Size on the outside is my bias. I doubt I'd go corner back-to-back like that. I think Murphy is good and Blackmon was pretty good too, especially for a rookie. I'd hope there was an RB available there we could take or if not, then a LB. But talent on the board doesn't always match up with need and I'm a talent guy in the draft, so if it's two corners, then it's two corners.


That's the biggest problem commenting on others' mock drafts, it's really hard to know who else was on the board. That's the crux of the analysis, IMHO. But these are talented players and I wouldn't hate it.

[mlhouse]

We don't have a 3rd round pick.


Sell me on McCarthy's arm, because I haven't seen it. And when I mean "I haven't seen it," I literally mean that I haven't seen it. I'm not disputing it. I'm saying he hasn't displayed a lot of arm talent at Michigan. He seldom has to make big throws in big spots. Guys are usually open. He's not frequently dropping dimes in tight windows with velocity and pinpoint accuracy. I'm not anti-McCarthy, I'm McCarthy-agnostic.


If the NFL projects Smith as being able to get to the passer, and they might, then its unlikely he makes it to round two. I'd love him there if he was. Even if he's only a mediocre pass-rusher in the NFL, we need a giant athletic guy in the middle of the 3-4. If he can't rush the passer at a high level, I think he'd still be a nice fit on the interior of the DL. He might even be able to put on 10-15lbs and still be effective. Then he'd be a 330lb true NT. I see both those potential paths to success for him and would be cool with either.


I'd have to know who was available at this hypothetical 3rd round pick to know what to think of going with Rice. There's a lot to like about him, but I think the returns would be diminishing as he'd be at best the 4th receiving option behind JJ, Addison, and Hockenson. And all those guys are young and figure to be here a while. Our third pick is a hefty price to pay for insane depth at the position. None of this is anti-Rice and I agree with your overall assessment of him and I do have a bias in favor of big WRs and we lack that (I was secretly hoping N'Keal Harry would bloom here a little for that). But there would really have to be almost nothing left on the board for me to go WR. But it's moot anyway, since we don't have a 3rd and Rice almost certainly won't last until the 4th.

I like both the corners, but I like Jackson more. Size on the outside is my bias. I doubt I'd go corner back-to-back like that. I think Murphy is good and Blackmon was pretty good too, especially for a rookie. I'd hope there was an RB available there we could take or if not, then a LB. But talent on the board doesn't always match up with need and I'm a talent guy in the draft, so if it's two corners, then it's two corners.


That's the biggest problem commenting on others' mock drafts, it's really hard to know who else was on the board. That's the crux of the analysis, IMHO. But these are talented players and I wouldn't hate it.

Rice was a 4th round pick, #112 overall in this mock simulator. That was just point 3. You could have looked at the link that shows the picks.

I would claim of all of the QBs in the draft, McCarthy has the best arm strength by far. Solid mechanics and footwork.

The point of Rice, or a similar receiver, is he has a dimension in the passing game our current depth chart does not have: deep speed and size. And as I said, what is our "depth at WR"? Powell and Osborn are both UFA and both could be gone. Even if we sign one or both, we still do not have a deep threat receiver. I want a guy with deep speed and size.

First, you can never have enough corner competition and you can see what happens when you don't have corner depth. We had Jaylin WIlliams, a UDFA rookie in the game as the boundary corner in the last game. I think it is safe to say Booth is a bust. Evans was replaced by Williams in game. They like Blackmon, and there are reasons to, but he was a late 3rd round pick who isn't guaranteed anything. Plus I would argue we do not have a true slot corner that I project Mike at.

[mlhouse]

Sign Cousins for a couple of years while McCarthy learns?

McCarthy is the one prospect I would look to bridge. Cousins is not my first choice of the bridge guy but that remains to be seen. All of the other guys have constraints too. I would sign Jake Browning if hte contract terms are right. I would trade for Justin Fields if the trade terms are right and you can make a deal with him. And I would consider Kirk on the right deal too, but I would worry he will not make it through the season without injury.

[Beef Supreme]

We don't have a 3rd round pick.


Sell me on McCarthy's arm, because I haven't seen it. And when I mean "I haven't seen it," I literally mean that I haven't seen it. I'm not disputing it. I'm saying he hasn't displayed a lot of arm talent at Michigan. He seldom has to make big throws in big spots. Guys are usually open. He's not frequently dropping dimes in tight windows with velocity and pinpoint accuracy. I'm not anti-McCarthy, I'm McCarthy-agnostic.


If the NFL projects Smith as being able to get to the passer, and they might, then its unlikely he makes it to round two. I'd love him there if he was. Even if he's only a mediocre pass-rusher in the NFL, we need a giant athletic guy in the middle of the 3-4. If he can't rush the passer at a high level, I think he'd still be a nice fit on the interior of the DL. He might even be able to put on 10-15lbs and still be effective. Then he'd be a 330lb true NT. I see both those potential paths to success for him and would be cool with either.


I'd have to know who was available at this hypothetical 3rd round pick to know what to think of going with Rice. There's a lot to like about him, but I think the returns would be diminishing as he'd be at best the 4th receiving option behind JJ, Addison, and Hockenson. And all those guys are young and figure to be here a while. Our third pick is a hefty price to pay for insane depth at the position. None of this is anti-Rice and I agree with your overall assessment of him and I do have a bias in favor of big WRs and we lack that (I was secretly hoping N'Keal Harry would bloom here a little for that). But there would really have to be almost nothing left on the board for me to go WR. But it's moot anyway, since we don't have a 3rd and Rice almost certainly won't last until the 4th.

I like both the corners, but I like Jackson more. Size on the outside is my bias. I doubt I'd go corner back-to-back like that. I think Murphy is good and Blackmon was pretty good too, especially for a rookie. I'd hope there was an RB available there we could take or if not, then a LB. But talent on the board doesn't always match up with need and I'm a talent guy in the draft, so if it's two corners, then it's two corners.


That's the biggest problem commenting on others' mock drafts, it's really hard to know who else was on the board. That's the crux of the analysis, IMHO. But these are talented players and I wouldn't hate it.

Rice was a 4th round pick, #112 overall in this mock simulator. That was just point 3. You could have looked at the link that shows the picks.

I would claim of all of the QBs in the draft, McCarthy has the best arm strength by far. Solid mechanics and footwork.

The point of Rice, or a similar receiver, is he has a dimension in the passing game our current depth chart does not have: deep speed and size. And as I said, what is our "depth at WR"? Powell and Osborn are both UFA and both could be gone. Even if we sign one or both, we still do not have a deep threat receiver. I want a guy with deep speed and size.

First, you can never have enough corner competition and you can see what happens when you don't have corner depth. We had Jaylin WIlliams, a UDFA rookie in the game as the boundary corner in the last game. I think it is safe to say Booth is a bust. Evans was replaced by Williams in game. They like Blackmon, and there are reasons to, but he was a late 3rd round pick who isn't guaranteed anything. Plus I would argue we do not have a true slot corner that I project Mike at.

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

[mlhouse]

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

You are playing the semantic game. He has a much stronger arm and much better mechanics than Penix. He can make all of the throws with ease. But, accuracy, touch and timing are still to be fully developed. McCarthy just turned 21 years of age and is a true junior at Michigan. Penix played four years at Indiana wihtout the same Big Ten success followed by 2 years at Washington.

Going back to Rice, this is a 4th round pick. I get you can't see the prospects available from the data, but clearly there isn't a player at pick 112 of the 2024 draft that will address "glaring needs as starters" and viewing it as a "luxury" pick is a mistatement. It is a type of receiver that we do not have. If we had three speed receivers with size on the roster it might be different. But we do not have a true deep threat and we lack size at wide receiver: Powell, Nailor, and Addison are tiny guys in the NFL. KJ is solid guy, but under 6 feet. Jefferson at 6-1 is the only WR we have over 6 feet tall.

SOme of the other needs of the team are going to have to be filled by returning players like Hicks or other veteran free agents. Running back would be one position to look at in free agency with a veteran player. I would not be surprised when it all shook out if they Vikings made a run at a guy like Saquon Barkley.

[mlhouse]

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

One other note on this draft: this is what happens when you draft a QB at the top of the draft. Your other needs gets more limited attention. Pulling the trigger on McCarthy with Jared Verse sitting available at 12? Fuck that is a hard thing to do (in imaginary world).

But McCarthy is a solid enough QB prospect to pull the trigger when we are there with the pick. He is a much better prospect than Christian Ponder was in 2011. And I have real doubts if he would be available after pick 15.

ALso note: I could have picked Verse or similar player and then picked McCarthy later because of how they have him ranked on the simulator, but that is unrealistic.

[Beef Supreme]

These are stupid and premature, but I did one too:



1 Jayden Daniels QB LSU - Unlikely he'll actually be there at 12, but if he is swing for the fence.


2 T'Vondre Sweat DT Texas - This guy might be a 2-down guy in the NFL, but he's the massive space-eater inside that we need.


4James Williams S Miami (FL) - We part ways with Harry and a new safety means Matellus can continue to play that 3rd safety hybrid role


4Jordan Burch EDGE Oregon - He's listed as an EDGE, but at 290lbs, I think he's a 3-4 DE. Our DL gets a massive upgrade. Going Philips/Sweat/Burch is suddenly pretty good and can hopefully occupy blockers so Flores' blitzes can get home next year.


5Omar Speights LB LSU - BPA on defense as the defensive front continues its overhaul. I see a little of Kendricks in him. Not a lot, but a little. Enough to warrant a 5th round pick.


6J. Michael Sturdivant WR UCLA - Value pick here. I like his size (6-3, 200) and he's very shifty for a guy with his frame. If he had more top-end speed, he'd go a lot higher. I see him as a big slot chain-mover. Think TJ Houshmanzadeh. He'll be tough to cover underneath with JJ and Addison taking going downfield.


6Ray Davis RB Kentucky - Jack of all trades, but master of none. Should give us an upgrade and will probably be a solid player. Placeholder for a year until the stars align for us to take a really talented back. It didn't work out this year.


7Jack Sawyer EDGE Ohio State - This was stupid. No way he falls to the seventh. If I had seen that earlier, I would have take him a couple rounds higher. This is why these draft machines are dumb, but also fun.




My misses: I always like to add a little OL depth and I didn't get a corner. The value just wasn't there for me on this simulation and I didn't do trades.

[Beef Supreme]

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

One other note on this draft: this is what happens when you draft a QB at the top of the draft. Your other needs gets more limited attention. Pulling the trigger on McCarthy with Jared Verse sitting available at 12? Fuck that is a hard thing to do (in imaginary world).

But McCarthy is a solid enough QB prospect to pull the trigger when we are there with the pick. He is a much better prospect than Christian Ponder was in 2011. And I have real doubts if he would be available after pick 15.

ALso note: I could have picked Verse or similar player and then picked McCarthy later because of how they have him ranked on the simulator, but that is unrealistic.

I agree with that. The simulator I just did had Penix Jr. rated 49th and didn't go off the board until the 50s. I could have easily done whatever at 12 and picked him up in the 2nd. But I thought that was dumb.

[Beef Supreme]

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

You are playing the semantic game. He has a much stronger arm and much better mechanics than Penix. He can make all of the throws with ease. But, accuracy, touch and timing are still to be fully developed. McCarthy just turned 21 years of age and is a true junior at Michigan. Penix played four years at Indiana wihtout the same Big Ten success followed by 2 years at Washington.

Going back to Rice, this is a 4th round pick. I get you can't see the prospects available from the data, but clearly there isn't a player at pick 112 of the 2024 draft that will address "glaring needs as starters" and viewing it as a "luxury" pick is a mistatement. It is a type of receiver that we do not have. If we had three speed receivers with size on the roster it might be different. But we do not have a true deep threat and we lack size at wide receiver: Powell, Nailor, and Addison are tiny guys in the NFL. KJ is solid guy, but under 6 feet. Jefferson at 6-1 is the only WR we have over 6 feet tall.

SOme of the other needs of the team are going to have to be filled by returning players like Hicks or other veteran free agents. Running back would be one position to look at in free agency with a veteran player. I would not be surprised when it all shook out if they Vikings made a run at a guy like Saquon Barkley.

For all his arm strength and mechanical superiority, he's far less accurate. Maybe it's mental. I don't know. Yes. Penix played at Indiana without the same success as McCarthy had at Michigan. The reason should be self-evident. Indiana... Michigan...

I know. I get the argument about Rice. I don't disagree. But he'll barely play unless someone gets hurt. That's why he's a luxury. He wouldn't cut into JJ or Addisons playing time and they're not sitting Hockenson. That makes him a luxury even if he does bring something else to the table. Again, if there's really nothing else there close in talent, I'm on board, but I bet there would be. Maybe not. Whatever. I'm not going to argue too much about a fake simulation based on algorithms that will be re-written countless times with new data before the draft.

[mlhouse]

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

You are playing the semantic game. He has a much stronger arm and much better mechanics than Penix. He can make all of the throws with ease. But, accuracy, touch and timing are still to be fully developed. McCarthy just turned 21 years of age and is a true junior at Michigan. Penix played four years at Indiana wihtout the same Big Ten success followed by 2 years at Washington.

Going back to Rice, this is a 4th round pick. I get you can't see the prospects available from the data, but clearly there isn't a player at pick 112 of the 2024 draft that will address "glaring needs as starters" and viewing it as a "luxury" pick is a mistatement. It is a type of receiver that we do not have. If we had three speed receivers with size on the roster it might be different. But we do not have a true deep threat and we lack size at wide receiver: Powell, Nailor, and Addison are tiny guys in the NFL. KJ is solid guy, but under 6 feet. Jefferson at 6-1 is the only WR we have over 6 feet tall.

SOme of the other needs of the team are going to have to be filled by returning players like Hicks or other veteran free agents. Running back would be one position to look at in free agency with a veteran player. I would not be surprised when it all shook out if they Vikings made a run at a guy like Saquon Barkley.

For all his arm strength and mechanical superiority, he's far less accurate. Maybe it's mental. I don't know. Yes. Penix played at Indiana without the same success as McCarthy had at Michigan. The reason should be self-evident. Indiana... Michigan...

I know. I get the argument about Rice. I don't disagree. But he'll barely play unless someone gets hurt. That's why he's a luxury. He wouldn't cut into JJ or Addisons playing time and they're not sitting Hockenson. That makes him a luxury even if he does bring something else to the table. Again, if there's really nothing else there close in talent, I'm on board, but I bet there would be. Maybe not. Whatever. I'm not going to argue too much about a fake simulation based on algorithms that will be re-written countless times with new data before the draft.

Well, who would be the 3rd WR? A lineup with Jefferson-Addison-Hockenson (if he is available from torn ACL/MCL) and Rice would be a highly used lineup even if they resigned Powell/Osborn. Such a lineup could account for 30+% of their snaps.

[mlhouse]

You said first "arm talent" and now you're saying "arm strength." It might be semantic, but I don't think those are exactly the same thing. I've seen some erratic and inaccurate throws from him. I'm not certain he's "by far" the strongest arm in the class, but I think his arm strength is adequate at worst and I agree probably better than that. But overall talent? Including accuracy, touch, and timing? I don't see it. Not yet. Maybe it can be developed. But he's got a ways to go, IMHO.

Again, I have no problem with Rice as a prospect. But I'd be hard pressed to shore up WR3 and receiving target 4 before I address the defense and RB spots. We have glaring needs as starters. I'd have to think that not only could Rice push Addison for WR2 but that also there was nobody else there even close to his talent at other positions. He screams luxury pick at a time we don't have the luxury of luxury.

I don't have a problem with lots of corners either. But I think we need at least 1 RB we can count on. Again, it's tough to rate this without knowing who was available and all that. So I can't say the picks were bad, but I'll be disappointed if it breaks that way and we don't upgrade other positions of greater urgency. You can make the argument that if fully healthy, the RB spot was the worst position group on the team. That or DL. But you addressed DL already.

You are playing the semantic game. He has a much stronger arm and much better mechanics than Penix. He can make all of the throws with ease. But, accuracy, touch and timing are still to be fully developed. McCarthy just turned 21 years of age and is a true junior at Michigan. Penix played four years at Indiana wihtout the same Big Ten success followed by 2 years at Washington.

Going back to Rice, this is a 4th round pick. I get you can't see the prospects available from the data, but clearly there isn't a player at pick 112 of the 2024 draft that will address "glaring needs as starters" and viewing it as a "luxury" pick is a mistatement. It is a type of receiver that we do not have. If we had three speed receivers with size on the roster it might be different. But we do not have a true deep threat and we lack size at wide receiver: Powell, Nailor, and Addison are tiny guys in the NFL. KJ is solid guy, but under 6 feet. Jefferson at 6-1 is the only WR we have over 6 feet tall.

SOme of the other needs of the team are going to have to be filled by returning players like Hicks or other veteran free agents. Running back would be one position to look at in free agency with a veteran player. I would not be surprised when it all shook out if they Vikings made a run at a guy like Saquon Barkley.

For all his arm strength and mechanical superiority, he's far less accurate. Maybe it's mental. I don't know. Yes. Penix played at Indiana without the same success as McCarthy had at Michigan. The reason should be self-evident. Indiana... Michigan...

I know. I get the argument about Rice. I don't disagree. But he'll barely play unless someone gets hurt. That's why he's a luxury. He wouldn't cut into JJ or Addisons playing time and they're not sitting Hockenson. That makes him a luxury even if he does bring something else to the table. Again, if there's really nothing else there close in talent, I'm on board, but I bet there would be. Maybe not. Whatever. I'm not going to argue too much about a fake simulation based on algorithms that will be re-written countless times with new data before the draft.

Yeah, McCarthy only completed 73.2% of his passes. AS I said, I have the QBs ranked: Daniels Williams Maye Penix McCarthy

Before I started my "analysis" of the 2024 draft I did not think Penix and McCarthy (Daniels for that matter) were top 15 guys. But in this draft they are and they are for good reason.

[Sarge]

Saw a stat that the Vikes were dead last in interior D-Line pass rush win rate at around 8%.

[Oriole81]

If they know they're going QB in Rd1, which I think they should by the time the free agency window opens, then they should sign a big time free agent DL to balance out passing on one in RD1.

We can afford to re-sign Hunter as well as sign another top end guy next to him.

[Oriole81]

Saw a stat that the Vikes were dead last in interior D-Line pass rush win rate at around 8%.

It would stand to reason considering the extreme lack of investment in it.

[weimy froob]

Saw a stat that the Vikes were dead last in interior D-Line pass rush win rate at around 8%.

i can believe it. everybody can talk about the QB--but the defensive play the last two weeks makes me think that the talk of how improved it is over last year is a little overblown. looked pretty much like last year's defense to me sunday night and in the game against the loins. two division rivals on their home field.

[WayneVikes]

We not only need studs up front on this D line overall, but we also need them for Ivan Pace if we're gonna roll with him as one of our backers going forward. He's gonna need some dawgs in front to help him play his game, because he's always gonna be super small for his position. We need to keep him as clean as possible in there so he can fly around and make plays for us. Without dawgs up front, he's easy to wash up when he's contacted. So adding stud talent in the trenches is critical in my opinion

[mlhouse]

Saw a stat that the Vikes were dead last in interior D-Line pass rush win rate at around 8%.

It would stand to reason considering the extreme lack of investment in it.

I think the claim that we have not invested in interior defensive line is a bit of a mistatement.

Michael Pierce 3 years $27 million

Dalvin Tomlinson 2 years $21 million

Harrison Phillips 3 years $19.5 million

For three consecutive years we have spent money on a free agent defensive tackle. Maybe it isn't "sexy" money, but the investment has been made. And maybe most of it was wasted away.

The defense has improved from 31st in the NFL to 16th in yards.

Interior defensive line is not a strong spot in the 2024 draft. Maason Smith, the DT I took in the 2nd in this mock draft simulation, is a guy who could be one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL if he can reach his upside.

[Oriole81]

Saw a stat that the Vikes were dead last in interior D-Line pass rush win rate at around 8%.

It would stand to reason considering the extreme lack of investment in it.

I think the claim that we have not invested in interior defensive line is a bit of a mistatement.

Michael Pierce 3 years $27 million

Dalvin Tomlinson 2 years $21 million

Harrison Phillips 3 years $19.5 million

For three consecutive years we have spent money on a free agent defensive tackle. Maybe it isn't "sexy" money, but the investment has been made. And maybe most of it was wasted away.

The defense has improved from 31st in the NFL to 16th in yards.

Interior defensive line is not a strong spot in the 2024 draft. Maason Smith, the DT I took in the 2nd in this mock draft simulation, is a guy who could be one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL if he can reach his upside.

1) Pierce and Tomlinson only had one year of overlap, so they essentially ended up being a wash.
2) I like Phillips, but they're also playing him out of position I would contend.
3) They haven't placed an emphasis on DL development in the draft. We've had a need for it for years and Kwesi hasn't even drafted one higher than RD5 since he took over.
3) I think you have to lump Edge in as well in this category, which they've shown similar priority. And I don't count Davenport in this. They knew he was extremely high risk, so if they signed him and then chose to not draft accordingly, then that is a big mistake. They don't get a pass because he got hurt.

Now with that in mind, the fact that they were even able to get to #16 is a real testament to Flores and his ability to do more with less.
So use that to your advantage & give him some real resources and let him do his magic long term.
Maybe he can make Dallas Turner or Jared Verse into a superstar, or get the most out of a Day 2 guy like Smith in your example, or Leonard Taylor.

[Oriole81]

It would stand to reason considering the extreme lack of investment in it.

I think the claim that we have not invested in interior defensive line is a bit of a mistatement.

Michael Pierce 3 years $27 million

Dalvin Tomlinson 2 years $21 million

Harrison Phillips 3 years $19.5 million

For three consecutive years we have spent money on a free agent defensive tackle. Maybe it isn't "sexy" money, but the investment has been made. And maybe most of it was wasted away.

The defense has improved from 31st in the NFL to 16th in yards.

Interior defensive line is not a strong spot in the 2024 draft. Maason Smith, the DT I took in the 2nd in this mock draft simulation, is a guy who could be one of the best interior pass rushers in the NFL if he can reach his upside.

1) Pierce and Tomlinson only had one year of overlap, so they essentially ended up being a wash.
2) I like Phillips, but they're also playing him out of position I would contend.
3) They haven't placed an emphasis on DL development in the draft. We've had a need for it for years and Kwesi hasn't even drafted one higher than RD5 since he took over.
3) I think you have to lump Edge in as well in this category, which they've shown similar priority. And I don't count Davenport in this. They knew he was extremely high risk, so if they signed him and then chose to not draft accordingly, then that is a big mistake. They don't get a pass because he got hurt.

Now with that in mind, the fact that they were even able to get to #16 is a real testament to Flores and his ability to do more with less.
So use that to your advantage & give him some real resources and let him do his magic long term.
Maybe he can make Dallas Turner or Jared Verse into a superstar, or get the most out of a Day 2 guy like Smith in your example, or Leonard Taylor.

I'll also add that, it's my opinion at least, that you need to be SUPER deep on the DL/Edge to be considered a true championship contender.
I think you need to go 4 deep on pass rushers, and have strong depth on the interior in order to make it through a season.

If you can accomplish that by routinely maximizing guys like Danielle, Everson, Robison, Edwards, Linval, Tom Johnson then great, and you'll have a huge advantage from an asset allocation standpoint.
But if you can't, then be self aware and use bigger assets.

So my interpretation of the phrase" not investing in" may have a higher standard than some others.

[mlhouse]

3) They haven't placed an emphasis on DL development in the draft. We've had a need for it for years and Kwesi hasn't even drafted one higher than RD5 since he took over.
3) I think you have to lump Edge in as well in this category, which they've shown similar priority. And I don't count Davenport in this. They knew he was extremely high risk, so if they signed him and then chose to not draft accordingly, then that is a big mistake. They don't get a pass because he got hurt.

Not sure about 2. THey have used many picks on DL development. 4th rounders on DJ WOnnum and James Lynch in 2020. 2021 3rd round on Patrick and 4th round on Janarius Robinson. And the Kwesi regime has used 5th rounders on -Roy in 2023 and Otemowo in 2022. The previous defensive regime preferred to build from the back end and that influenced who they picked at the top of the draft vs. middle.

But Davenport is just another significant investment on the defensive front. AS was Hunter himself and Everson in the olden days. Also, don't forget SHledon Richardson, and previous to that Linval Joseph. The core of the defensive line Hunter - Joseph - Griffen was the starters (aliong with Brian Robinson) from 2016 - 2019. Mike ZImmer could not rebuild the defensive line after that period even with all of the free agent money they spent plus Hunter's first extension, 5 years $72 million, which started in 2019.

When you have significant money invested in players at certain positions, you are not going to necessarily draft those positions high.

[Oriole81]

3) They haven't placed an emphasis on DL development in the draft. We've had a need for it for years and Kwesi hasn't even drafted one higher than RD5 since he took over.
3) I think you have to lump Edge in as well in this category, which they've shown similar priority. And I don't count Davenport in this. They knew he was extremely high risk, so if they signed him and then chose to not draft accordingly, then that is a big mistake. They don't get a pass because he got hurt.

Not sure about 2. THey have used many picks on DL development. 4th rounders on DJ WOnnum and James Lynch in 2020. 2021 3rd round on Patrick and 4th round on Janarius Robinson. And the Kwesi regime has used 5th rounders on -Roy in 2023 and Otemowo in 2022. The previous defensive regime preferred to build from the back end and that influenced who they picked at the top of the draft vs. middle.

But Davenport is just another significant investment on the defensive front. AS was Hunter himself and Everson in the olden days. Also, don't forget SHledon Richardson, and previous to that Linval Joseph. The core of the defensive line Hunter - Joseph - Griffen was the starters (aliong with Brian Robinson) from 2016 - 2019. Mike ZImmer could not rebuild the defensive line after that period even with all of the free agent money they spent plus Hunter's first extension, 5 years $72 million, which started in 2019.

When you have significant money invested in players at certain positions, you are not going to necessarily draft those positions high.

"Building from the back end" only works as long as it works. For whatever reason it stopped working with Johnson, Holmes, Lynch, Wonnum, Robinson, etc and that is why Spielman and Zimmer lost their job.
That's why I specifically said that when we were able to do that, we had a huge advantage from an asset allocation standpoint.

So we've had to start in such a hole coming out of the previous regime, and yet is still seems like this new regime is doing the same thing.
3 of their top 4 picks were at non-premium positions (S, G, off ball LB), and even this year's top pick they took a WR luxury pick when they already had JJ and Hock and there was good WR depth later in the draft.
For comparison sake, Brian Bresee is already looking like a stud for NO, with 3 sacks in the last 3 games. I like Addison, but the case could be made that Bresee or other similarly drafted defensive players (Myles Murphy had 4 tackles and a sack against us) were similary valued.

Now ultimately I don't care how you get there, as long as you get there.
But I do believe there are certain premium positions which you routinely need to be investing in, and I don't have a lot of sympathy for complaining about not being there when all you're throwing at the wall are mid round development guys and high risk projects like Davenport.

[mlhouse]

3) They haven't placed an emphasis on DL development in the draft. We've had a need for it for years and Kwesi hasn't even drafted one higher than RD5 since he took over.
3) I think you have to lump Edge in as well in this category, which they've shown similar priority. And I don't count Davenport in this. They knew he was extremely high risk, so if they signed him and then chose to not draft accordingly, then that is a big mistake. They don't get a pass because he got hurt.

Not sure about 2. THey have used many picks on DL development. 4th rounders on DJ WOnnum and James Lynch in 2020. 2021 3rd round on Patrick and 4th round on Janarius Robinson. And the Kwesi regime has used 5th rounders on -Roy in 2023 and Otemowo in 2022. The previous defensive regime preferred to build from the back end and that influenced who they picked at the top of the draft vs. middle.

But Davenport is just another significant investment on the defensive front. AS was Hunter himself and Everson in the olden days. Also, don't forget SHledon Richardson, and previous to that Linval Joseph. The core of the defensive line Hunter - Joseph - Griffen was the starters (aliong with Brian Robinson) from 2016 - 2019. Mike ZImmer could not rebuild the defensive line after that period even with all of the free agent money they spent plus Hunter's first extension, 5 years $72 million, which started in 2019.

When you have significant money invested in players at certain positions, you are not going to necessarily draft those positions high.

"Building from the back end" only works as long as it works. For whatever reason it stopped working with Johnson, Holmes, Lynch, Wonnum, Robinson, etc and that is why Spielman and Zimmer lost their job.
That's why I specifically said that when we were able to do that, we had a huge advantage from an asset allocation standpoint.

So we've had to start in such a hole coming out of the previous regime, and yet is still seems like this new regime is doing the same thing.
3 of their top 4 picks were at non-premium positions (S, G, off ball LB), and even this year's top pick they took a WR luxury pick when they already had JJ and Hock and there was good WR depth later in the draft.
For comparison sake, Brian Bresee is already looking like a stud for NO, with 3 sacks in the last 3 games. I like Addison, but the case could be made that Bresee or other similarly drafted defensive players (Myles Murphy had 4 tackles and a sack against us) were similary valued.

Now ultimately I don't care how you get there, as long as you get there.
But I do believe there are certain premium positions which you routinely need to be investing in, and I don't have a lot of sympathy for complaining about not being there when all you're throwing at the wall are mid round development guys and high risk projects like Davenport.

Like I said, the building on the back end was the previous coaching staff's process because that is what Mike Zimmer did "DB Whisperereererererer".

I am not sure what the current management's strategy is to tell you the truth. The 2022 draft was nothing but a disaster with 4 picks in the top 66 and only one average at best starter in that group and 3 players that look like total bust. It was absolutely the worst you can do with the draft assets they started with. Sometimes you can bail your draft out that is bad at the top with a couple of good picks in the end, but there are no Josh Mettelus or KJ Osborns at the back of the 2022 draft (maybe Ty Chandler???).

I like the 2023 draft a bit better with Addison at the top. At least he produced and you really need to add TJ Hockenson to the draft value. I like Blackmon. I like Roy and wonder why he did not get more snaps. Jay Ward was a guy I loved in the draft, one of those guys i saw watching other players who just made plays (although I thought 4th round was a bit early because of his size). I think Hall can be a backup QB in the NFL which is a potentially valuable player. But the 2023 draft was no fucking grand slam either.

I presented my first twelfth overall mock draft simulation. i picked qb at the top and when you do that, it puts you behind the curve in filling other needs. And one thing in looking at a potential player pick in the draft at a certain position one question I ask in these imaginary draft war rooms is "will that player be better than another player we have already have at the position". In the 5th round is there a guy that will be a better player than Jackie Roy (that is my nickname for him when i am not close enough for him to run me down and beat the shit out of me). Or even James Lynch. Or even Jonathan Bullard. The answer is often no so you look to a similarly valued player at a another position.

[mlhouse]

3) They haven't placed an emphasis on DL development in the draft. We've had a need for it for years and Kwesi hasn't even drafted one higher than RD5 since he took over.
3) I think you have to lump Edge in as well in this category, which they've shown similar priority. And I don't count Davenport in this. They knew he was extremely high risk, so if they signed him and then chose to not draft accordingly, then that is a big mistake. They don't get a pass because he got hurt.

Not sure about 2. THey have used many picks on DL development. 4th rounders on DJ WOnnum and James Lynch in 2020. 2021 3rd round on Patrick and 4th round on Janarius Robinson. And the Kwesi regime has used 5th rounders on -Roy in 2023 and Otemowo in 2022. The previous defensive regime preferred to build from the back end and that influenced who they picked at the top of the draft vs. middle.

But Davenport is just another significant investment on the defensive front. AS was Hunter himself and Everson in the olden days. Also, don't forget SHledon Richardson, and previous to that Linval Joseph. The core of the defensive line Hunter - Joseph - Griffen was the starters (aliong with Brian Robinson) from 2016 - 2019. Mike ZImmer could not rebuild the defensive line after that period even with all of the free agent money they spent plus Hunter's first extension, 5 years $72 million, which started in 2019.

When you have significant money invested in players at certain positions, you are not going to necessarily draft those positions high.

"Building from the back end" only works as long as it works. For whatever reason it stopped working with Johnson, Holmes, Lynch, Wonnum, Robinson, etc and that is why Spielman and Zimmer lost their job.
That's why I specifically said that when we were able to do that, we had a huge advantage from an asset allocation standpoint.

So we've had to start in such a hole coming out of the previous regime, and yet is still seems like this new regime is doing the same thing.
3 of their top 4 picks were at non-premium positions (S, G, off ball LB), and even this year's top pick they took a WR luxury pick when they already had JJ and Hock and there was good WR depth later in the draft.
For comparison sake, Brian Bresee is already looking like a stud for NO, with 3 sacks in the last 3 games. I like Addison, but the case could be made that Bresee or other similarly drafted defensive players (Myles Murphy had 4 tackles and a sack against us) were similary valued.

Now ultimately I don't care how you get there, as long as you get there.
But I do believe there are certain premium positions which you routinely need to be investing in, and I don't have a lot of sympathy for complaining about not being there when all you're throwing at the wall are mid round development guys and high risk projects like Davenport.

Last thing: to evaluate a decision like a draft pick, one way of looking at it is did the player we draft add more incremental value than another.

I am certain that Jordan Addison added more value, and will continue to add more value, to our offense than Brian Bresee would have added to our defense. Think about when you do a fantasy football draft. QBs produce more points than other positions in most scoring systems. But, QBs are also much lower valued in fantasy football because it is the incremental points that matter.

[Oriole81]

Not sure about 2. THey have used many picks on DL development. 4th rounders on DJ WOnnum and James Lynch in 2020. 2021 3rd round on Patrick and 4th round on Janarius Robinson. And the Kwesi regime has used 5th rounders on -Roy in 2023 and Otemowo in 2022. The previous defensive regime preferred to build from the back end and that influenced who they picked at the top of the draft vs. middle.

But Davenport is just another significant investment on the defensive front. AS was Hunter himself and Everson in the olden days. Also, don't forget SHledon Richardson, and previous to that Linval Joseph. The core of the defensive line Hunter - Joseph - Griffen was the starters (aliong with Brian Robinson) from 2016 - 2019. Mike ZImmer could not rebuild the defensive line after that period even with all of the free agent money they spent plus Hunter's first extension, 5 years $72 million, which started in 2019.

When you have significant money invested in players at certain positions, you are not going to necessarily draft those positions high.

"Building from the back end" only works as long as it works. For whatever reason it stopped working with Johnson, Holmes, Lynch, Wonnum, Robinson, etc and that is why Spielman and Zimmer lost their job.
That's why I specifically said that when we were able to do that, we had a huge advantage from an asset allocation standpoint.

So we've had to start in such a hole coming out of the previous regime, and yet is still seems like this new regime is doing the same thing.
3 of their top 4 picks were at non-premium positions (S, G, off ball LB), and even this year's top pick they took a WR luxury pick when they already had JJ and Hock and there was good WR depth later in the draft.
For comparison sake, Brian Bresee is already looking like a stud for NO, with 3 sacks in the last 3 games. I like Addison, but the case could be made that Bresee or other similarly drafted defensive players (Myles Murphy had 4 tackles and a sack against us) were similary valued.

Now ultimately I don't care how you get there, as long as you get there.
But I do believe there are certain premium positions which you routinely need to be investing in, and I don't have a lot of sympathy for complaining about not being there when all you're throwing at the wall are mid round development guys and high risk projects like Davenport.

Like I said, the building on the back end was the previous coaching staff's process because that is what Mike Zimmer did "DB Whisperereererererer".

I am not sure what the current management's strategy is to tell you the truth. The 2022 draft was nothing but a disaster with 4 picks in the top 66 and only one average at best starter in that group and 3 players that look like total bust. It was absolutely the worst you can do with the draft assets they started with. Sometimes you can bail your draft out that is bad at the top with a couple of good picks in the end, but there are no Josh Mettelus or KJ Osborns at the back of the 2022 draft (maybe Ty Chandler???).

I like the 2023 draft a bit better with Addison at the top. At least he produced and you really need to add TJ Hockenson to the draft value. I like Blackmon. I like Roy and wonder why he did not get more snaps. Jay Ward was a guy I loved in the draft, one of those guys i saw watching other players who just made plays (although I thought 4th round was a bit early because of his size). I think Hall can be a backup QB in the NFL which is a potentially valuable player. But the 2023 draft was no fucking grand slam either.

I presented my first twelfth overall mock draft simulation. i picked qb at the top and when you do that, it puts you behind the curve in filling other needs. And one thing in looking at a potential player pick in the draft at a certain position one question I ask in these imaginary draft war rooms is "will that player be better than another player we have already have at the position". In the 5th round is there a guy that will be a better player than Jackie Roy (that is my nickname for him when i am not close enough for him to run me down and beat the shit out of me). Or even James Lynch. Or even Jonathan Bullard. The answer is often no so you look to a similarly valued player at a another position.

The previous coaching scheme's philosophy is relevant only in that it contributed to why the new regime has had to start in such a hole.
They're not responsible for it, however the prudent thing would have been to at least be relatively proactive in attacking it, and it seems like we're both on the same page in regards to questioning their reasoning for not.

Regarding the 2023 draft, I too like it more and hopefully that does bode well for the future, but specifically in regards to this conversation about DL depth, here's the counter...

*Addison is great, but like I said above, could there be something to be said for taking Bresee instead as more of a need?
With JJ, Hock, Cousins and KOC already in place, and the fact that the WR lot is already deep (I know a week or so back you and I were on this subject with guys like Dell, Wilson, Nacua, Hutchinson) could the team as a whole be better off going elsewhere?
If not, then what is the expectation for the offense? Do they need to be Top 3 in order to justify the investment?

* I like Blackmon and CB is a premium position.

*I like Roy, but also in the past I've liked guys like Crichton, Jones, Robinson and they didn't work out. If they can't develop Roy though, then it really doesn't matter how much you liked him as a developmental prospect.
Addison/Roy could work out just as good as Bresee/Fill in the black Day 3 WR and I'm willing to let it play out, but from an optics standpoint it is fair to question until the result is seen.

I think your mock overall was fine as well.
That's why I also said pairing it with a big free agent DL/Edge signing prior to the draft, would make it even better.

[Oriole81]

Not sure about 2. THey have used many picks on DL development. 4th rounders on DJ WOnnum and James Lynch in 2020. 2021 3rd round on Patrick and 4th round on Janarius Robinson. And the Kwesi regime has used 5th rounders on -Roy in 2023 and Otemowo in 2022. The previous defensive regime preferred to build from the back end and that influenced who they picked at the top of the draft vs. middle.

But Davenport is just another significant investment on the defensive front. AS was Hunter himself and Everson in the olden days. Also, don't forget SHledon Richardson, and previous to that Linval Joseph. The core of the defensive line Hunter - Joseph - Griffen was the starters (aliong with Brian Robinson) from 2016 - 2019. Mike ZImmer could not rebuild the defensive line after that period even with all of the free agent money they spent plus Hunter's first extension, 5 years $72 million, which started in 2019.

When you have significant money invested in players at certain positions, you are not going to necessarily draft those positions high.

"Building from the back end" only works as long as it works. For whatever reason it stopped working with Johnson, Holmes, Lynch, Wonnum, Robinson, etc and that is why Spielman and Zimmer lost their job.
That's why I specifically said that when we were able to do that, we had a huge advantage from an asset allocation standpoint.

So we've had to start in such a hole coming out of the previous regime, and yet is still seems like this new regime is doing the same thing.
3 of their top 4 picks were at non-premium positions (S, G, off ball LB), and even this year's top pick they took a WR luxury pick when they already had JJ and Hock and there was good WR depth later in the draft.
For comparison sake, Brian Bresee is already looking like a stud for NO, with 3 sacks in the last 3 games. I like Addison, but the case could be made that Bresee or other similarly drafted defensive players (Myles Murphy had 4 tackles and a sack against us) were similary valued.

Now ultimately I don't care how you get there, as long as you get there.
But I do believe there are certain premium positions which you routinely need to be investing in, and I don't have a lot of sympathy for complaining about not being there when all you're throwing at the wall are mid round development guys and high risk projects like Davenport.

Last thing: to evaluate a decision like a draft pick, one way of looking at it is did the player we draft add more incremental value than another.

I am certain that Jordan Addison added more value, and will continue to add more value, to our offense than Brian Bresee would have added to our defense. Think about when you do a fantasy football draft. QBs produce more points than other positions in most scoring systems. But, QBs are also much lower valued in fantasy football because it is the incremental points that matter.

But then what's the expectation?
With that much firepower, we should be a Top 3 offense that blows the door off of other teams, and the defense only has to be good enough to hold off.

That wasn't the case though even before the injuries started happening.

I have no problem ever from a philosophy standpoint, as long as it gets you to the right place.
But if you're going to invest so much in one side of the ball, then that side needs to be your identity.

[HeHateMe]

These are stupid and premature, but I did one too:



1 Jayden Daniels QB LSU - Unlikely he'll actually be there at 12, but if he is swing for the fence.


2 T'Vondre Sweat DT Texas - This guy might be a 2-down guy in the NFL, but he's the massive space-eater inside that we need.


4James Williams S Miami (FL) - We part ways with Harry and a new safety means Matellus can continue to play that 3rd safety hybrid role


4Jordan Burch EDGE Oregon - He's listed as an EDGE, but at 290lbs, I think he's a 3-4 DE. Our DL gets a massive upgrade. Going Philips/Sweat/Burch is suddenly pretty good and can hopefully occupy blockers so Flores' blitzes can get home next year.


5Omar Speights LB LSU - BPA on defense as the defensive front continues its overhaul. I see a little of Kendricks in him. Not a lot, but a little. Enough to warrant a 5th round pick.


6J. Michael Sturdivant WR UCLA - Value pick here. I like his size (6-3, 200) and he's very shifty for a guy with his frame. If he had more top-end speed, he'd go a lot higher. I see him as a big slot chain-mover. Think TJ Houshmanzadeh. He'll be tough to cover underneath with JJ and Addison taking going downfield.


6Ray Davis RB Kentucky - Jack of all trades, but master of none. Should give us an upgrade and will probably be a solid player. Placeholder for a year until the stars align for us to take a really talented back. It didn't work out this year.


7Jack Sawyer EDGE Ohio State - This was stupid. No way he falls to the seventh. If I had seen that earlier, I would have take him a couple rounds higher. This is why these draft machines are dumb, but also fun.




My misses: I always like to add a little OL depth and I didn't get a corner. The value just wasn't there for me on this simulation and I didn't do trades.

Solid draft in terms of filling some holes... I think they need to go free agency for corner anyway.. we have plenty of young guys we can throw back there.. let's go get another vet who can step in right away.

I think you could flip that safety pick to a guard and you'd probably be fine for the draft then. If Metellus and Bynum are back, they'll likely still want a safety but I'd probably prefer the veteran route too like for CB.

[Hornets]

A thank you to those of you who do the research and post interesting and informative mock drafts and other newsworthy NFL items!

[Oriole81]

Saw a stat that the Vikes were dead last in interior D-Line pass rush win rate at around 8%.

i can believe it. everybody can talk about the QB--but the defensive play the last two weeks makes me think that the talk of how improved it is over last year is a little overblown. looked pretty much like last year's defense to me sunday night and in the game against the loins. two division rivals on their home field.

Wouldn't surprise me if they just burned out.
They've been carrying the team most of the season, and using maximum effort/scheme to mask talent deficiencies, and that can only go so far before guys just start bottoming out.

A valiant effort indeed though.