Kessler vs Gobert season stats

[Subarudrivingsnowflake]

Gobert 30.7 min -13.4 pts- 11.6 rebounds - 65.9% fg- 1.4 blocks

Kessler 23.0 min- 9.2 points- 8.4 rebounds- 72.4% fg 2.3 blocks

Yikes

[Subarudrivingsnowflake]

We traded an identical rookie player on a rookie contract for 4 picks plus players + an older version of kessler who costs 30 million more dollars per year.

I love it!!

[Beef Supreme]

We traded an identical rookie player on a rookie contract for 4 picks plus players + an older version of kessler who costs 30 million more dollars per year.

I love it!!

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

[Abe Froman]

Rudy: 1 TKO
Kessler: 0 TKO

[weimy froob]

bad trade but it didn't sink the franchise. you can look back or look forward. you have a double/double player who does things on the defensive end of the floor that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. work with that to make the team better next year. that's what the GM and coach have to do. let's see what happens.

[flexbuffchest]

bad trade but it didn't sink the franchise. you can look back or look forward. you have a double/double player who does things on the defensive end of the floor that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. work with that to make the team better next year. that's what the GM and coach have to do. let's see what happens.

So does Kessler. People underrate him big-time.

[weimy froob]

bad trade but it didn't sink the franchise. you can look back or look forward. you have a double/double player who does things on the defensive end of the floor that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. work with that to make the team better next year. that's what the GM and coach have to do. let's see what happens.

So does Kessler. People underrate him big-time.

the only time i saw him was when they played the wolves. again that's looking back though. spilled milk.

[shoteh]

I'm torn between
"if we had a full healthy team this year, playoffs and standings would be totally different"
and
"Kat sucks, Rudy sucks, they can't play together"

This also applies to the kessler/rudy thing as well. I'm pretty sure 95% of us did not like the Rudy deal especially with the added picks.

[weimy froob]

I'm torn between
"if we had a full healthy team this year, playoffs and standings would be totally different"
and
"Kat sucks, Rudy sucks, they can't play together"

This also applies to the kessler/rudy thing as well. I'm pretty sure 95% of us did not like the Rudy deal especially with the added picks.

i thought finch made a good point that we didn't get to see if he was spot-on in his presser the other night. he said he thought his team finally found an identity before Naz went down with his broken wrist. if you remember it was the GS game right before that. maybe he was right about that.

[UnFadeable21]

Rudy is number 2 in the NBA with Defensive plus minus on the floor at 7.72 only behind Bam who leads the league at 8.17

Walker Kessler is at 4.46 and 14th.

We gave up too much but I’ll worry when Walker Kessler is a DPOY. Rudy was solid as much as most of you hate to admit it.

[Beef Supreme]

Our defensive rating was better last year without Gobert than it was this year with him.


Our offensive rating was also worse.


Our record and playoff seeding were also worse.


We were also more thoroughly outplayed in the playoffs this year than last.



Why did we get worse?

[jffl_commish]

Our defensive rating was better last year without Gobert than it was this year with him.


Our offensive rating was also worse.


Our record and playoff seeding were also worse.


We were also more thoroughly outplayed in the playoffs this year than last.



Why did we get worse?

Rebounding was also worse. All things Rudy was supposed to fix, or at least support, and he did not.

[UnFadeable21]

Our defensive rating was better last year without Gobert than it was this year with him.


Our offensive rating was also worse.


Our record and playoff seeding were also worse.


We were also more thoroughly outplayed in the playoffs this year than last.



Why did we get worse?

Denver is way better than the Grizz. That’s veteran team with the reigning 2 time MVP and has 3 super max contract players on it.

Wolves didn’t have Jaden or Naz for the whole series Vs Denver.

Even if we have Kyle for game 5, we win. It would still be a 4-2
Series lost. Same as last season.

[Abe Froman]

I'm torn between
"if we had a full healthy team this year, playoffs and standings would be totally different"
and
"Kat sucks, Rudy sucks, they can't play together"

This also applies to the kessler/rudy thing as well. I'm pretty sure 95% of us did not like the Rudy deal especially with the added picks.

We are never gonna have a fully healthy team going into the playoffs tho. Teams are extremely lucky if they do.

[Beef Supreme]

Our defensive rating was better last year without Gobert than it was this year with him.


Our offensive rating was also worse.


Our record and playoff seeding were also worse.


We were also more thoroughly outplayed in the playoffs this year than last.



Why did we get worse?

Rebounding was also worse. All things Rudy was supposed to fix, or at least support, and he did not.

I know he gets a ton of rebounds, but he's terrible at contested rebounds and rebound out of his area. He's tall with long arms, so he does vacuum up a lot of boards in his area, but he doesn't win many battles for them.

[Billy Ray]

Our defensive rating was better last year without Gobert than it was this year with him.


Our offensive rating was also worse.


Our record and playoff seeding were also worse.


We were also more thoroughly outplayed in the playoffs this year than last.



Why did we get worse?

Rebounding was also worse. All things Rudy was supposed to fix, or at least support, and he did not.

I know he gets a ton of rebounds, but he's terrible at contested rebounds and rebound out of his area. He's tall with long arms, so he does vacuum up a lot of boards in his area, but he doesn't win many battles for them.

He should have had at least 4 more rebounds a game this year. He gave up so many to smaller, stronger guys who out worked him. Worst hands in the league.

[Beef Supreme]

Rebounding was also worse. All things Rudy was supposed to fix, or at least support, and he did not.

I know he gets a ton of rebounds, but he's terrible at contested rebounds and rebound out of his area. He's tall with long arms, so he does vacuum up a lot of boards in his area, but he doesn't win many battles for them.

He should have had at least 4 more rebounds a game this year. He gave up so many to smaller, stronger guys who out worked him. Worst hands in the league.

There's a huge difference between a rebound nobody fights for in the 2nd quarter and a crucial rebound late in the 4th where everyone is in the paint pushing and grabbing to get it.

[Billy Ray]

I know he gets a ton of rebounds, but he's terrible at contested rebounds and rebound out of his area. He's tall with long arms, so he does vacuum up a lot of boards in his area, but he doesn't win many battles for them.

He should have had at least 4 more rebounds a game this year. He gave up so many to smaller, stronger guys who out worked him. Worst hands in the league.

There's a huge difference between a rebound nobody fights for in the 2nd quarter and a crucial rebound late in the 4th where everyone is in the paint pushing and grabbing to get it.

Is there somewhere that shows stats for contested rebounds? Also would like to find out what our 3 point defense was like with Rudy and Karl on the floor together.

[Beef Supreme]

He should have had at least 4 more rebounds a game this year. He gave up so many to smaller, stronger guys who out worked him. Worst hands in the league.

There's a huge difference between a rebound nobody fights for in the 2nd quarter and a crucial rebound late in the 4th where everyone is in the paint pushing and grabbing to get it.

Is there somewhere that shows stats for contested rebounds? Also would like to find out what our 3 point defense was like with Rudy and Karl on the floor together.

I would love to see such a stat as well. It would be somewhat subjective, but interesting nonetheless.

[salamander]

Gobert 30.7 min -13.4 pts- 11.6 rebounds - 65.9% fg- 1.4 blocks

Kessler 23.0 min- 9.2 points- 8.4 rebounds- 72.4% fg 2.3 blocks

Yikes

I really liked Kessler as a prospect and was pretty excited we drafted him.

[T_J]

I think we all plainly saw that Gobert is either in decline or we just don’t know how to play a style of defense to fit his strengths. Either one is horrible.

The knock on him was you can play him off the court in the playoffs, but you’ll be a guaranteed 5 seed or better with 50 wins. That’s what they wanted when they traded for him. A guaranteed 50 wins for 3-4 years while he’s under contract. The west was way down this year and they barely even got to the playoffs into any high leverage moments to see if he’s even useful.

The whole thing is a complete organizational failure of the greatest possible magnitude. They moved all in cover for the deficiencies of their super max starting center. That’s so misguided and asinine. It stings even more since they accidentally drafted exactly the kind of player they wanted to play next to Karl at zero cost, but clearly had no idea how good he could be so they can’t tip their cap at the good pick either.

[flexbuffchest]

There's a huge difference between a rebound nobody fights for in the 2nd quarter and a crucial rebound late in the 4th where everyone is in the paint pushing and grabbing to get it.

Is there somewhere that shows stats for contested rebounds? Also would like to find out what our 3 point defense was like with Rudy and Karl on the floor together.

I would love to see such a stat as well. It would be somewhat subjective, but interesting nonetheless.

You can find that on nba.com. It doesn't specifically say what they count as a contested rebound but

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebou ... EB_CONTEST

As for the opposing 3P%

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nb ... 97,1626157
With Gobert + KAT: 35.61%
Gobert but no KAT: 35.85%
KAT but no Gobert: 40.80% (holy fuck )
Neither: 37.54%

[salamander]

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nb ... 97,1626157
With Gobert + KAT: 35.61%
Gobert but no KAT: 35.85%
KAT but no Gobert: 40.80% (holy fuck )
Neither: 37.54%

Sigh....

[YBBR]

Again, I still think you're playing 2 centers together. The best net rating of the Towns and Gobert lineups is Gobert on the bench and Towns on the floor. That says it all to me in terms of what happens to the offense when Gobert is on the floor. He plugs it up. Which is okay, if he brings that much and even more value defensively. But the numbers Flex posted don't seem to bear that out.

[Hornets]

It's sad that some folks will always try and justify the trade and refuse to acknowledge it was a historically bad one that will hamper the Pups for years to come. Their is no shame in admitting it was an abject failure.

[DonaldDouchebag]

I'm torn between
"if we had a full healthy team this year, playoffs and standings would be totally different"
and
"Kat sucks, Rudy sucks, they can't play together"

This also applies to the kessler/rudy thing as well. I'm pretty sure 95% of us did not like the Rudy deal especially with the added picks.

I kinda liked the idea of it for a minute but, then again, I don't know shit about basketball.

[DonaldDouchebag]

I think we all plainly saw that Gobert is either in decline or we just don’t know how to play a style of defense to fit his strengths. Either one is horrible.

The knock on him was you can play him off the court in the playoffs, but you’ll be a guaranteed 5 seed or better with 50 wins. That’s what they wanted when they traded for him. A guaranteed 50 wins for 3-4 years while he’s under contract. The west was way down this year and they barely even got to the playoffs into any high leverage moments to see if he’s even useful.

The whole thing is a complete organizational failure of the greatest possible magnitude. They moved all in cover for the deficiencies of their super max starting center. That’s so misguided and asinine. It stings even more since they accidentally drafted exactly the kind of player they wanted to play next to Karl at zero cost, but clearly had no idea how good he could be so they can’t tip their cap at the good pick either.

You said it. We got handed a swimming pool full of shit and we get to watch this team sip from it through 2029.

[somuchyummy]

rudy is in the final laps of his career - and we're seeing his play fade. still gets a lot of rebounds - still a dub/dub guy, but certainly not the defensive force he once was. however. let's not get too carried away with kessler. he's looked very good so far - but the other thing to remember about bigs his size is that they often limp their way thru their careers with injury after injury. rudy didn't. pretty much an iron man. 65 missed games due to injury vs. 681 games he played in. we don't benefit from that exactly, it's in the past - but Walker Kessler has a looooooong way to go to equal Gobert's impact. he's one foot fracture away from being an overpaid bench guy. might not happen - then again, it sure does happen to a lot of them. bottom line - if we'd have kept him and not done the trade, there is zero guarantee that he'd be giving us 10 straight years of high end patrolling of the paint. that seems to factor in on opinions about him and what we lost thru the trade. we traded a young Gobert! not true, yet.

[somuchyummy]

one of the things that has made Gobert so valuable over the course of his career is simply that he's always been available. really great history in terms of injuries. he missed 37 games his rookie season - but i don't even think those were injuries, i think he simply was a rookie who was inactive or a DNCP a lot. so if you take those 37 missed games out of his history, he's played in 681 games and missed just 74 due to illness or injury. think of that - Chet Holmgren has now already missed more NBA games due to injury than Rudy Gobert. and that's often been a problem with bigs - Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie, etc. and if you peruse today's ranks of bigs, you see it fairly often as well.

Embiid - 394 games played/ 316 missed (or 45% of all the games he could have played in)
AD - 660 played/ 224 missed (25%)
KAT - who was always great till lately - 511/117 (19%)
Ayton - 303/ 79 (21%)
Turner - 493/ 135 (22%)
Porzingis - 402/ 226 (36%)
R Williams - 209/ 173 (45%)
Nurk - 463/ 247 (35%)
M Robinson - 289/ 93 (24%)

24% doesn't seem like much, but it does mean Mitchell Robinson hasn't been able to play in one of every four games in his career. Porzingis and Nurk 1 in 3. Rudy Gobert, otoh, has missed less than 10% of the games he could have played in. freaking iron man, relatively - and that counts for a lot. my point being - if we are comparing Gobert to Kessler, you have to take the long term picture into account as well. maybe Walker will avoid problems, as Rudy has - or maybe he'll be another one of those bigs who winds up missing 30% of the games he could have played in.

between back, feet and knees - the NBA can be a rough road for big men.

[Mnwild1128]

As i always like to preach....


You're an iron man until you are not. (Ex: Towns)
You're injury prone until you're not. (Ex: Beal)

Trying to predict injuries is a waste of time. Unless someone has a chronic problem like a knee. Getting scopes/cleanups or surgeries every single offseason is an idicator for things to come at some point. But other random injuries that vary where on the body, i just ignore.