Kessler vs Gobert season stats

[somuchyummy]

and i said that. but Kessler is often talked about here as being superior to Rudy - and he's got a long, long way to go before he legitimately enters that discussion. Contractwise, absolutely! Agewise, absolutely! but careerwise, Kessler is yet but a flyspeck on Rudy's resume.

[witljon]

and i said that. but Kessler is often talked about here as being superior to Rudy - and he's got a long, long way to go before he legitimately enters that discussion. Contractwise, absolutely! Agewise, absolutely! but careerwise, Kessler is yet but a flyspeck on Rudy's resume.

Kessler named to the NBA all-rookie first team.

[somuchyummy]

and i said that. but Kessler is often talked about here as being superior to Rudy - and he's got a long, long way to go before he legitimately enters that discussion. Contractwise, absolutely! Agewise, absolutely! but careerwise, Kessler is yet but a flyspeck on Rudy's resume.

Kessler named to the NBA all-rookie first team.

and that's great. let's have another conversation in five years. maybe he'll be the fucking bomb - or maybe he'll be a "whatever happened to..."

his excellence doesn't surprise me - i was lobbying hard for drafting him prior to the draft. but... couple of things to keep in mind. this was coming off a horrible naz showing in last year's playoffs where he frankly stunk and was nearly unplayable. how do we feel about Naz now? if we had kept Kessler - but Naz came back in as good as he did - where would Walker get minutes? what would be the assessment about Kessler right now if he'd have been third on our C depth chart behind KAT and Naz? it's all about opportunity - and WK got it big time in Utah and made the most of it. If we'd have kept him and not done the Rudy trade, my guess is that his season stats would have been: 38 games played, 6 mpg, 1.7 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 0.4 bpg. AND we would have seen nothing of Garza's growth - and probably would have chucked him and put someone else on that two way. it's all about opportunity - and there's no way in hell Walker Kessler is first team all-NBA rookie team if he was a TWolf. finally - Froobs would have been pissed as hell that we "wasted" our first rounder on a big C when we already had KAT and Naz on the team. What was mgmt thinking??? we could have drafted Wendell Moore Jr instead, who averaged 14/5/3 this year for the Spurs!!!

[flexbuffchest]

and i said that. but Kessler is often talked about here as being superior to Rudy - and he's got a long, long way to go before he legitimately enters that discussion. Contractwise, absolutely! Agewise, absolutely! but careerwise, Kessler is yet but a flyspeck on Rudy's resume.

The issue is that rookie Kessler was already like 85% of what Rudy gave the Wolves this year. It isn't about how good/bad or whatever your opinion of Gobert is but rather that a rookie was almost as good as him (kudos to Kessler and not a dig at Rudy).

Much rather have Kessler and all those picks back.

[witljon]

Much rather have Kessler and all those picks back.

Me too, but at the time of the trade, I was for it.

[T_J]

and i said that. but Kessler is often talked about here as being superior to Rudy - and he's got a long, long way to go before he legitimately enters that discussion. Contractwise, absolutely! Agewise, absolutely! but careerwise, Kessler is yet but a flyspeck on Rudy's resume.

The issue is that rookie Kessler was already like 85% of what Rudy gave the Wolves this year. It isn't about how good/bad or whatever your opinion of Gobert is but rather that a rookie was almost as good as him (kudos to Kessler and not a dig at Rudy).

Much rather have Kessler and all those picks back.

I think straight up they had the same year.

[somuchyummy]

the point i'm making is that if we have no idea how good or bad Wendell Moore Jr. is after one year - with KAT and Naz on the team, Walker Kessler would still be an unknown entity as well. i think a lot of players can show more than they're allowed to - Cam Thomas is a great example. WK was a late first that most had pegged as a limited career backup C - but he landed in Utah because of the trade and, after scattered PT in the first 20 games, he assumed a starting role on one of the few teams in the league that would give him major minutes. perfect landing spot for him - tons of PT - and his stats reflect that.

[Mnwild1128]

and i said that. but Kessler is often talked about here as being superior to Rudy - and he's got a long, long way to go before he legitimately enters that discussion. Contractwise, absolutely! Agewise, absolutely! but careerwise, Kessler is yet but a flyspeck on Rudy's resume.

Kessler named to the NBA all-rookie first team.

and that's great. let's have another conversation in five years. maybe he'll be the fucking bomb - or maybe he'll be a "whatever happened to..."

his excellence doesn't surprise me - i was lobbying hard for drafting him prior to the draft. but... couple of things to keep in mind. this was coming off a horrible naz showing in last year's playoffs where he frankly stunk and was nearly unplayable. how do we feel about Naz now? if we had kept Kessler - but Naz came back in as good as he did - where would Walker get minutes? what would be the assessment about Kessler right now if he'd have been third on our C depth chart behind KAT and Naz? it's all about opportunity - and WK got it big time in Utah and made the most of it. If we'd have kept him and not done the Rudy trade, my guess is that his season stats would have been: 38 games played, 6 mpg, 1.7 ppg, 1.3 rpg, 0.4 bpg. AND we would have seen nothing of Garza's growth - and probably would have chucked him and put someone else on that two way. it's all about opportunity - and there's no way in hell Walker Kessler is first team all-NBA rookie team if he was a TWolf. finally - Froobs would have been pissed as hell that we "wasted" our first rounder on a big C when we already had KAT and Naz on the team. What was mgmt thinking??? we could have drafted Wendell Moore Jr instead, who averaged 14/5/3 this year for the Spurs!!!

The wendell moore fantasy thing doesnt work since we traded pick 19 for two first rounders and took Kessler and Moore. No coulda, woulda, shoulda in regards to Moore in an alternate reality since we already had him regardless. Unless you meant staying at pick 19 and taking Branham of the Spurs instead.

[UnFadeable21]

one of the things that has made Gobert so valuable over the course of his career is simply that he's always been available. really great history in terms of injuries. he missed 37 games his rookie season - but i don't even think those were injuries, i think he simply was a rookie who was inactive or a DNCP a lot. so if you take those 37 missed games out of his history, he's played in 681 games and missed just 74 due to illness or injury. think of that - Chet Holmgren has now already missed more NBA games due to injury than Rudy Gobert. and that's often been a problem with bigs - Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie, etc. and if you peruse today's ranks of bigs, you see it fairly often as well.

Embiid - 394 games played/ 316 missed (or 45% of all the games he could have played in)
AD - 660 played/ 224 missed (25%)
KAT - who was always great till lately - 511/117 (19%)
Ayton - 303/ 79 (21%)
Turner - 493/ 135 (22%)
Porzingis - 402/ 226 (36%)
R Williams - 209/ 173 (45%)
Nurk - 463/ 247 (35%)
M Robinson - 289/ 93 (24%)

24% doesn't seem like much, but it does mean Mitchell Robinson hasn't been able to play in one of every four games in his career. Porzingis and Nurk 1 in 3. Rudy Gobert, otoh, has missed less than 10% of the games he could have played in. freaking iron man, relatively - and that counts for a lot. my point being - if we are comparing Gobert to Kessler, you have to take the long term picture into account as well. maybe Walker will avoid problems, as Rudy has - or maybe he'll be another one of those bigs who winds up missing 30% of the games he could have played in.

between back, feet and knees - the NBA can be a rough road for big men.

Yup one thing I respect about Rudy is that he is very in shape and can run the floor and play heavy minutes. I don’t think you have to worry about Pek foot injuries with him

[witljon]

one of the things that has made Gobert so valuable over the course of his career is simply that he's always been available. really great history in terms of injuries. he missed 37 games his rookie season - but i don't even think those were injuries, i think he simply was a rookie who was inactive or a DNCP a lot. so if you take those 37 missed games out of his history, he's played in 681 games and missed just 74 due to illness or injury. think of that - Chet Holmgren has now already missed more NBA games due to injury than Rudy Gobert. and that's often been a problem with bigs - Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Greg Oden, Sam Bowie, etc. and if you peruse today's ranks of bigs, you see it fairly often as well.

Embiid - 394 games played/ 316 missed (or 45% of all the games he could have played in)
AD - 660 played/ 224 missed (25%)
KAT - who was always great till lately - 511/117 (19%)
Ayton - 303/ 79 (21%)
Turner - 493/ 135 (22%)
Porzingis - 402/ 226 (36%)
R Williams - 209/ 173 (45%)
Nurk - 463/ 247 (35%)
M Robinson - 289/ 93 (24%)

24% doesn't seem like much, but it does mean Mitchell Robinson hasn't been able to play in one of every four games in his career. Porzingis and Nurk 1 in 3. Rudy Gobert, otoh, has missed less than 10% of the games he could have played in. freaking iron man, relatively - and that counts for a lot. my point being - if we are comparing Gobert to Kessler, you have to take the long term picture into account as well. maybe Walker will avoid problems, as Rudy has - or maybe he'll be another one of those bigs who winds up missing 30% of the games he could have played in.

between back, feet and knees - the NBA can be a rough road for big men.

Yup one thing I respect about Rudy is that he is very in shape and can run the floor and play heavy minutes. I don’t think you have to worry about Pek foot injuries with him

And he plays hurt. Gobert played the end of the season
with a bad back.

[Subarudrivingsnowflake]

Rudy has a better resume, but what’s a resume worth after the year he just had? You’re only as good as your current performance. Kessler can do let’s say…..90% of what Gobert does in all around basketball skill which bears out because they’re stats are almost identical. (Except Kessler blocked more shots.

[somuchyummy]

Rudy has a better resume, but what’s a resume worth after the year he just had? You’re only as good as your current performance. Kessler can do let’s say…..90% of what Gobert does in all around basketball skill which bears out because they’re stats are almost identical. (Except Kessler blocked more shots.

this i understand, of course. i'm just saying that there's a lot that can happen in the next few years that diminishes WK's performance - and four years from now, the assessment of his impact might be different than it is now.

[Subarudrivingsnowflake]

Rudy has a better resume, but what’s a resume worth after the year he just had? You’re only as good as your current performance. Kessler can do let’s say…..90% of what Gobert does in all around basketball skill which bears out because they’re stats are almost identical. (Except Kessler blocked more shots.

this i understand, of course. i'm just saying that there's a lot that can happen in the next few years that diminishes WK's performance - and four years from now, the assessment of his impact might be different than it is now.

Simple math in terms of age would say different. Gobert isn’t peaking in terms ability and it only gets worse year over year for him. Kessler on the other hand, will improve through experience and he’s already at/exceeding Gobert as a rookie.

[BBG]

It's only 3 games, but Walker Kessler looks like just a guy out there. He is nowhere near impacting games as he did last year.

[somuchyummy]

It's only 3 games, but Walker Kessler looks like just a guy out there. He is nowhere near impacting games as he did last year.

it's only a few games, but yeah - for a guy who was supposed to have a year under his belt and be able to hit the ground running this year, he hasn't looked good.

last year - 9.2 ppg/ 8.4 rpg/ 2.3 bpg on 72%/33%/52%
this year - 5.7 ppg/ 5.7 rpg/ 0.7 bpg on 64%/25%/0 (hasn't been to the line in 3 games)

AND perhaps the oddest thing is that he's getting almost exactly that same PT as last year. Court time the same, the numbers way down.

[T_J]

It's only 3 games, but Walker Kessler looks like just a guy out there. He is nowhere near impacting games as he did last year.

it's only a few games, but yeah - for a guy who was supposed to have a year under his belt and be able to hit the ground running this year, he hasn't looked good.

last year - 9.2 ppg/ 8.4 rpg/ 2.3 bpg on 72%/33%/52%
this year - 5.7 ppg/ 5.7 rpg/ 0.7 bpg on 64%/25%/0 (hasn't been to the line in 3 games)

AND perhaps the oddest thing is that he's getting almost exactly that same PT as last year. Court time the same, the numbers way down.

The Conley effect.

[irishman89]

Might be the Kris Dunn/Sexton effect. Jazz are atrocious.

[T_J]

Might be the Kris Dunn/Sexton effect. Jazz are atrocious.

That seems more likely.

[BBG]

that look when you fleece the jazz

[somuchyummy]

Might be the Kris Dunn/Sexton effect. Jazz are atrocious.

That seems more likely.

i'll put in a kind word here for Kris Dunn. I think he's come a long way towards figuring out how to play in the league. No All Star, but not a negative either. Came into Utah for the final 22 games - averaged about 26 minutes per night at PG - and came away with a 13.2/ 4.5/ 5.6 line on 54%/47%/77% shooting. And he's always been a very tough defender - certainly miles beyond both Clarkson and Sexton in that area. What's more Kessler upped his season averages during that stint with Dunn - averaging 12.4/10.8 with 3.3 bpg during their time together. If a team uses him to his strengths, Dunn can be alright.

[T_J]

Might be the Kris Dunn/Sexton effect. Jazz are atrocious.

That seems more likely.

i'll put in a kind word here for Kris Dunn. I think he's come a long way towards figuring out how to play in the league. No All Star, but not a negative either. Came into Utah for the final 22 games - averaged about 26 minutes per night at PG - and came away with a 13.2/ 4.5/ 5.6 line on 54%/47%/77% shooting. And he's always been a very tough defender - certainly miles beyond both Clarkson and Sexton in that area. What's more Kessler upped his season averages during that stint with Dunn - averaging 12.4/10.8 with 3.3 bpg during their time together. If a team uses him to his strengths, Dunn can be alright.

That’s fair. It’s easy to rip a guy for not living up to his draft spot, but he’s still in the league getting minutes so he should get credit for that.

[Mnwild1128]

I know for a fact the Clipppers went small in their game as to why Kessler did not do well in that one with the lack of minutes

Games against the Suns and Kings they were blown out, so again, can't look at those games due to lack of minutes in them.

[Jimi_Thing]

One thing Rudy doesn’t get enough credit for is his incredible conditioning. He plays high minutes for a C and rarely ever is found late to get up and down the floor.

[BBG]

Another dud for Walker. 4 points and 4 boards. Oh, boy! Those are Loren Woods type numbers.

Yet, Wolves Twitter is convinced that this was some lopsided trade. At the end of this season, that narrative will be forgotten

[SO_MONEY]

Another dud for Walker. 4 points and 4 boards. Oh, boy! Those are Loren Woods type numbers.

Yet, Wolves Twitter is convinced that this was some lopsided trade. At the end of this season, that narrative will be forgotten

Totally, because Kessler is why people are upset about the trade.

[Hornets]

I guess if Rudy can average 10-12 pts and 10-12 rebounds a game that's about his overall ceiling going forward. No way he can be traded for value so if it's KAT or Rudy going the obvious choice is KAT.

[Mnwild1128]

Another dud for Walker. 4 points and 4 boards. Oh, boy! Those are Loren Woods type numbers.

Yet, Wolves Twitter is convinced that this was some lopsided trade. At the end of this season, that narrative will be forgotten

Blowout and Grizzlies went small ball. Which has now happened 3 times against the Jazz.

[BBG]

Another dud for Walker. 4 points and 4 boards. Oh, boy! Those are Loren Woods type numbers.

Yet, Wolves Twitter is convinced that this was some lopsided trade. At the end of this season, that narrative will be forgotten

Blowout and Grizzlies went small ball. Which has now happened 3 times against the Jazz.

We know it's a small sample size but it's all we have. This is the Kessler/Rudy szn Stat thread. Apparently Walker is the king of blocks tonight

[DonaldDouchebag]

Another dud for Walker. 4 points and 4 boards. Oh, boy! Those are Loren Woods type numbers.

Yet, Wolves Twitter is convinced that this was some lopsided trade. At the end of this season, that narrative will be forgotten

Yeah, it's only Wolves twitter.

[Catalyst]

I guess I will never get used to the constant rehashing of players that we don't have any more. I get it in the short term view, but thinking they would have blossomed the same, were they still here, I don't get. Some people need to find their niche. I don't know if Kessler would have been great here, but I do know Naz found his place in the most unlikely of situations and was smart enough to stay and is surprising the league. Count yer blessings.