KATs value

[Jimi_Thing]

i mentioned an idea the other day - KAT to Houston for Steven Adams, Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith. Adams would be a nice one year backup to Rudy (contract expires after one). Brooks could be bench behind Jaden. And the hopeful prize of it all would be the continued development of PF Jabari Smith. The rub - outside of the fact that most people fucking hate Dillon Brooks - is that Brooks is also on a long deal. Three more years after this one at about $20M per season. Houston would look pretty good too - Sengun, KAT, Amen Thompson, Jalen Green and FVV - with Tari Eason, Cam Whitmore, Je'Sean Tate and a top 8 pick off the bench.

I like this hypothetical. Fair enough value and possibly a great move if Jabari continues to improve. The Wolves have a squad that would allow him to thrive.

[somuchyummy]

It's not the worst track for a team without draft picks.

Ant, Smith, Jaden, Naz, NAW, Lenny, Minott, Moore and this year's two picks would all be 25 and under. Brooks, Monte, JMac and Garza are all 26-29, and Mike, Rudy and Adams would be the elder statesmen.

[SO_MONEY]

you obviously don't see Jabari Smith in the same light that I do. He had a rough start to his rookie season - came back with a strong performance after the All-Star break - and this year has seen great growth in nearly every offensive statistical category. On top of that, he's an excellent defender - which paired with Rudy and Jaden, would be a tough out for any team we face. Great size for a PF - 6-11 220 - which means we wouldn't be ditching our twin towers idea. His shooting last year was not good - 49%/31%/79% - this year he's upped it to 52%/36%/82% - which is more than respectable for 2nd year PF who shoots 5 threes per game. As for him being a rookie bust, he finished the season as the first rookie in NBA history with 1000+ pts, 500+ rebs, 50+ blks and 100+ three pointers - plus the most NBA double doubles as a teenager (more than Garnett, AD and Carmelo). Not exactly a bust in my book. Maybe we could get a first thrown in - but your joke about 4 is just that, a joke.

The rotation:

Rudy/Adams
Smith/Naz
Jaden/Brooks
Ant/NAW
Mike/Monte

Smith is nowhere near enough value, it is wishful thinking that he develops into an all-star. Adams is fairly neutral value and Brooks is negative. A massive difference in value here, we get bench players and a guy who might be good down the line while giving up a sure thing. A young guy with potential is only part of value in a trade for all-star level player especially if you tack on negative value on the other end of the equation in Adams and Brooks. For all we know Miller could be as good as Smith. You would need to add quite a bit more. I don't think any of this is unreasonable, the question is how many picks the difference is and/or other value added.

[somuchyummy]

you obviously don't see Jabari Smith in the same light that I do. He had a rough start to his rookie season - came back with a strong performance after the All-Star break - and this year has seen great growth in nearly every offensive statistical category. On top of that, he's an excellent defender - which paired with Rudy and Jaden, would be a tough out for any team we face. Great size for a PF - 6-11 220 - which means we wouldn't be ditching our twin towers idea. His shooting last year was not good - 49%/31%/79% - this year he's upped it to 52%/36%/82% - which is more than respectable for 2nd year PF who shoots 5 threes per game. As for him being a rookie bust, he finished the season as the first rookie in NBA history with 1000+ pts, 500+ rebs, 50+ blks and 100+ three pointers - plus the most NBA double doubles as a teenager (more than Garnett, AD and Carmelo). Not exactly a bust in my book. Maybe we could get a first thrown in - but your joke about 4 is just that, a joke.

The rotation:

Rudy/Adams
Smith/Naz
Jaden/Brooks
Ant/NAW
Mike/Monte

Smith is nowhere near enough value, it is wishful thinking that he develops into an all-star. Adams is fairly neutral value and Brooks is negative. A massive difference in value here, we get bench players and a guy who might be good down the line while giving up a sure thing. A young guy with potential is only part of value in a trade for all-star level player especially if you tack on negative value on the other end of the equation in Adams and Brooks. For all we know Miller could be as good as Smith. You would need to add quite a bit more. I don't think any of this is unreasonable, the question is how many picks the difference is and/or other value added.

We'll just have to disagree. And i'm not proposing trading KAT like it has to happen. This is only an example of a deal I think could work- and something of decent value. And, yeah, his tendency toward injury is concerning.

But I think there's a LOT to like in Smith. He'd already be a better defender than KAT - even with KAT's improvements. He'd give us a core of main young guys who could grow together - and his offense is looking a lot better - and there's reason to expect it to continue in that direction with a view towards getting 18-22 PPG out of him in a few years.

Adams would only be on the books for a year - then that money opens up - which is one of the appeals of breaking up KAT's money. In the meantime, he'd be a very solid backup to Rudy - and with both of them older - there'd be some missed games between them. He'd be gone after his deal expires in one year - and then we'd go with a bigs group of Rudy - Naz - Smith - and Miller (who by then, we'd be wanting to see something from).

And I don't understand your assessment of Dillon Brooks at all. I personally REALLY don't like him and his schtick. But he's a very good defender - especially a dog on the perimeter - and in the meantime this year, is averaging 13 ppg on some of the best shooting of his career - 49%/38%/83%. More than a decent backup to Jaden - plus a nice priced contract to add in on a trade if it's needed. That doesn't seem like "negative value" at all. Final note on Brooks: Houston just beat SAS again, and Vic W credits their aggressive D, and particularly Brooks - who often was matched onto him. Vic scored 13.

[A$$MAN]

There are many different options...and these are just examples to show them without deep diving into salary matching, player availability, etc.

Towns for D Murray, D Hunter, pick (two good players with smaller salaries and a pick)

Old trade idea Towns for Quickly, Fournier, Barrett, Toppin, picks (one promising player, one overpaid young player, an expiring, and smaller assets)

Towns to OKC for MULTIPLE first round picks and say Giddey (one expiring young player, and 4-5 firsts with OKC absorbing salary)

Many different ways to go if they choose that route.

Odds are good that we end up in the second apron though, right? And I believe the new salaries become effective once the moratorium kicks in at the beginning of July.

Assuming both of those are true, the window to even make these kinds of deals would be extremely small to start with and continue getting smaller the further we advance into the playoffs.

Once you pass that point though, again assuming we're a second apron team, you can't aggregate salaries to shed his.

Giddy is damaged goods.

Those weren't legit trade ideas...just different concepts for Towns trade ideas. That particular scenario was sending towns to a team with capspace and a shit ton of picks. I didn't spend any time looking into teams with capspace and picks so just used OKC and Giddey since there situation is obvious.

[aztimberwolves]

Or we could just, get this… keep him????

[somuchyummy]

Or we could just, get this… keep him????

These are just what ifs. I'm not suggesting we do a trade. Just trying to show what return value might be - and what some of the benefits would be. But I'm okay keeping KAT. Just don't keep getting injured.

[aztimberwolves]

Or we could just, get this… keep him????

These are just what ifs. I'm not suggesting we do a trade. Just trying to show what return value might be - and what some of the benefits would be. But I'm okay keeping KAT. Just don't keep getting injured.

Fair enough. But i haven’t seen one trade yet that i would take for Towns .

[HeHateMe]

Or we could just, get this… keep him????

These are just what ifs. I'm not suggesting we do a trade. Just trying to show what return value might be - and what some of the benefits would be. But I'm okay keeping KAT. Just don't keep getting injured.

Fair enough. But i haven’t seen one trade yet that i would take for Towns .

And that's ok too! I am not sure what to do either... yes you could keep him but I really don't like the idea of Naz walking without getting anything back in 15-16 months. And I'd prefer at this point to keep Naz and Jaden with Ant versus ship those two out and try to build around KAT/Gobert/Ant and minimum players. If they could have gotten Quickley a summer ago for him.... that was as prize! Now I'm monitoring other young pgs... Cason Wallace (no, I don't like trading KAT to OKC) is someone I really like and is behind a superstar.

[PanicWolf]

The future of this team is Ant, Jaden, Naz and friends.

[Jimi_Thing]

Is there any concern amongst my fellow Rubes of injecting KAT right back into the starting lineup when he comes back...even (for example) if a smaller starting lineup that instead includes NAW is killing it?

[PanicWolf]

Statistically, he is a positive player and should help the team.

KATs history, should probably be done for the season.

I do want to see the KAT redemption story so I’m pretty torn.

[aztimberwolves]

The future of this team is Ant, Jaden, Naz and friends.

The future of this team stops with Ant. Both Naz and especially McDaniels has tons left to prove if he can be a cornerstone player. I really feel Mac Daniels has regressed this year.

[HeHateMe]

The future of this team is Ant, Jaden, Naz and friends.

The future of this team stops with Ant. Both Naz and especially McDaniels has tons left to prove if he can be a cornerstone player. I really feel Mac Daniels has regressed this year.

He hasn't taken a step forward... but defensively he's still fantastic.

Let's get simple people... you have to eventually pick Naz or KAT. Probably by summer 2025 at the latest.

[HeHateMe]

Is there any concern amongst my fellow Rubes of injecting KAT right back into the starting lineup when he comes back...even (for example) if a smaller starting lineup that instead includes NAW is killing it?

Nope... they need the offense for sure. Love to see NAW continue to do well but there's always that pressure of expectations when you start thinking he consistently do it every night...

[Mplsfonz]

Is there any concern amongst my fellow Rubes of injecting KAT right back into the starting lineup when he comes back...even (for example) if a smaller starting lineup that instead includes NAW is killing it?

Nope... they need the offense for sure. Love to see NAW continue to do well but there's always that pressure of expectations when you start thinking he consistently do it every night...

So true. That's why I think Jaden is struggling. Personally, Finch should stop making him shoot those corner threes and play to his strengths going to the basket.

[PanicWolf]

Impossible for Rudy Jaden and Slomo to be on the court at the same time if Jaden isn’t considered an offensive threat.

[Day1_A1]

Is there any concern amongst my fellow Rubes of injecting KAT right back into the starting lineup when he comes back...even (for example) if a smaller starting lineup that instead includes NAW is killing it?

Nope... they need the offense for sure. Love to see NAW continue to do well but there's always that pressure of expectations when you start thinking he consistently do it every night...

So true. That's why I think Jaden is struggling. Personally, Finch should stop making him shoot those corner threes and play to his strengths going to the basket.

He actually needs to stick to corner threes. He’s shooting over 40 percent from corner threes this year, which is well above his career average. Meanwhile he’s shooting 24 percent from all other non-corner threes.

His ball handling and lack of strength are glaring weaknesses. I really thought he would make a big jump this year….

[somuchyummy]

i think there's a lot to it in his mindset - and he's got some growing up to do. you can see the contrast between him and NAW. NAW just keeps it at an even keel emotionally, even when he's playing with intensity. Jaden has more a tendency to mope, to get angry, etc - when things get tense. NAW should introduce Jaden to his therapist.

[salamander]

i mentioned an idea the other day - KAT to Houston for Steven Adams, Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith. Adams would be a nice one year backup to Rudy (contract expires after one). Brooks could be bench behind Jaden. And the hopeful prize of it all would be the continued development of PF Jabari Smith. The rub - outside of the fact that most people fucking hate Dillon Brooks - is that Brooks is also on a long deal. Three more years after this one at about $20M per season. Houston would look pretty good too - Sengun, KAT, Amen Thompson, Jalen Green and FVV - with Tari Eason, Cam Whitmore, Je'Sean Tate and a top 8 pick off the bench.

I like this hypothetical. Fair enough value and possibly a great move if Jabari continues to improve. The Wolves have a squad that would allow him to thrive.

I thought trading KAT was idiotic?

[Jimi_Thing]

i mentioned an idea the other day - KAT to Houston for Steven Adams, Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith. Adams would be a nice one year backup to Rudy (contract expires after one). Brooks could be bench behind Jaden. And the hopeful prize of it all would be the continued development of PF Jabari Smith. The rub - outside of the fact that most people fucking hate Dillon Brooks - is that Brooks is also on a long deal. Three more years after this one at about $20M per season. Houston would look pretty good too - Sengun, KAT, Amen Thompson, Jalen Green and FVV - with Tari Eason, Cam Whitmore, Je'Sean Tate and a top 8 pick off the bench.

I like this hypothetical. Fair enough value and possibly a great move if Jabari continues to improve. The Wolves have a squad that would allow him to thrive.

I thought trading KAT was idiotic?

Shoo fly.

[salamander]

I like this hypothetical. Fair enough value and possibly a great move if Jabari continues to improve. The Wolves have a squad that would allow him to thrive.

I thought trading KAT was idiotic?

Shoo fly.

I know I know, addressing you lashing out at me over something and then agreeing with my take weeks later is what big boys do.

[aztimberwolves]

you obviously don't see Jabari Smith in the same light that I do. He had a rough start to his rookie season - came back with a strong performance after the All-Star break - and this year has seen great growth in nearly every offensive statistical category. On top of that, he's an excellent defender - which paired with Rudy and Jaden, would be a tough out for any team we face. Great size for a PF - 6-11 220 - which means we wouldn't be ditching our twin towers idea. His shooting last year was not good - 49%/31%/79% - this year he's upped it to 52%/36%/82% - which is more than respectable for 2nd year PF who shoots 5 threes per game. As for him being a rookie bust, he finished the season as the first rookie in NBA history with 1000+ pts, 500+ rebs, 50+ blks and 100+ three pointers - plus the most NBA double doubles as a teenager (more than Garnett, AD and Carmelo). Not exactly a bust in my book. Maybe we could get a first thrown in - but your joke about 4 is just that, a joke.

The rotation:

Rudy/Adams
Smith/Naz
Jaden/Brooks
Ant/NAW
Mike/Monte

Smith is nowhere near enough value, it is wishful thinking that he develops into an all-star. Adams is fairly neutral value and Brooks is negative. A massive difference in value here, we get bench players and a guy who might be good down the line while giving up a sure thing. A young guy with potential is only part of value in a trade for all-star level player especially if you tack on negative value on the other end of the equation in Adams and Brooks. For all we know Miller could be as good as Smith. You would need to add quite a bit more. I don't think any of this is unreasonable, the question is how many picks the difference is and/or other value added.

We'll just have to disagree. And i'm not proposing trading KAT like it has to happen. This is only an example of a deal I think could work- and something of decent value. And, yeah, his tendency toward injury is concerning.

But I think there's a LOT to like in Smith. He'd already be a better defender than KAT - even with KAT's improvements. He'd give us a core of main young guys who could grow together - and his offense is looking a lot better - and there's reason to expect it to continue in that direction with a view towards getting 18-22 PPG out of him in a few years.

Adams would only be on the books for a year - then that money opens up - which is one of the appeals of breaking up KAT's money. In the meantime, he'd be a very solid backup to Rudy - and with both of them older - there'd be some missed games between them. He'd be gone after his deal expires in one year - and then we'd go with a bigs group of Rudy - Naz - Smith - and Miller (who by then, we'd be wanting to see something from).

And I don't understand your assessment of Dillon Brooks at all. I personally REALLY don't like him and his schtick. But he's a very good defender - especially a dog on the perimeter - and in the meantime this year, is averaging 13 ppg on some of the best shooting of his career - 49%/38%/83%. More than a decent backup to Jaden - plus a nice priced contract to add in on a trade if it's needed. That doesn't seem like "negative value" at all. Final note on Brooks: Houston just beat SAS again, and Vic W credits their aggressive D, and particularly Brooks - who often was matched onto him. Vic scored 13.

Yeah sorry this package is gross too. Stil no good deals proposed that would make me pull the trigger.

[Mplsfonz]

i think there's a lot to it in his mindset - and he's got some growing up to do. you can see the contrast between him and NAW. NAW just keeps it at an even keel emotionally, even when he's playing with intensity. Jaden has more a tendency to mope, to get angry, etc - when things get tense. NAW should introduce Jaden to his therapist.

I think Jaden is as "even keel" as they come. Even when he dunks on people, he doesn't flex, he just goes back to work. Flatliner.

[Mplsfonz]

Smith is nowhere near enough value, it is wishful thinking that he develops into an all-star. Adams is fairly neutral value and Brooks is negative. A massive difference in value here, we get bench players and a guy who might be good down the line while giving up a sure thing. A young guy with potential is only part of value in a trade for all-star level player especially if you tack on negative value on the other end of the equation in Adams and Brooks. For all we know Miller could be as good as Smith. You would need to add quite a bit more. I don't think any of this is unreasonable, the question is how many picks the difference is and/or other value added.

We'll just have to disagree. And i'm not proposing trading KAT like it has to happen. This is only an example of a deal I think could work- and something of decent value. And, yeah, his tendency toward injury is concerning.

But I think there's a LOT to like in Smith. He'd already be a better defender than KAT - even with KAT's improvements. He'd give us a core of main young guys who could grow together - and his offense is looking a lot better - and there's reason to expect it to continue in that direction with a view towards getting 18-22 PPG out of him in a few years.

Adams would only be on the books for a year - then that money opens up - which is one of the appeals of breaking up KAT's money. In the meantime, he'd be a very solid backup to Rudy - and with both of them older - there'd be some missed games between them. He'd be gone after his deal expires in one year - and then we'd go with a bigs group of Rudy - Naz - Smith - and Miller (who by then, we'd be wanting to see something from).

And I don't understand your assessment of Dillon Brooks at all. I personally REALLY don't like him and his schtick. But he's a very good defender - especially a dog on the perimeter - and in the meantime this year, is averaging 13 ppg on some of the best shooting of his career - 49%/38%/83%. More than a decent backup to Jaden - plus a nice priced contract to add in on a trade if it's needed. That doesn't seem like "negative value" at all. Final note on Brooks: Houston just beat SAS again, and Vic W credits their aggressive D, and particularly Brooks - who often was matched onto him. Vic scored 13.

Yeah sorry this package is gross too. Stil no good deals proposed that would make me pull the trigger.

Brooks is a cancer. Easy pass.

A broken KAT gets more than that.

[RubeTube]

Let it play out the rest of the year.

If this team crap em down the stretch and in the playoffs, it probably shows it isn’t good enough.

Look for a pile of draft picks back for Carl to atone for the Gobert trade and slowly rebuild this thing while you compete.

[somuchyummy]

i think there's a lot to it in his mindset - and he's got some growing up to do. you can see the contrast between him and NAW. NAW just keeps it at an even keel emotionally, even when he's playing with intensity. Jaden has more a tendency to mope, to get angry, etc - when things get tense. NAW should introduce Jaden to his therapist.

I think Jaden is as "even keel" as they come. Even when he dunks on people, he doesn't flex, he just goes back to work. Flatliner.

This is why he restrains himself from doing stuff like, idk, punching walls? Or constantly fouling when he knows we need to keep him on the court? The face is a mask. He has a lot of growing up to do.

[somuchyummy]

We'll just have to disagree. And i'm not proposing trading KAT like it has to happen. This is only an example of a deal I think could work- and something of decent value. And, yeah, his tendency toward injury is concerning.

But I think there's a LOT to like in Smith. He'd already be a better defender than KAT - even with KAT's improvements. He'd give us a core of main young guys who could grow together - and his offense is looking a lot better - and there's reason to expect it to continue in that direction with a view towards getting 18-22 PPG out of him in a few years.

Adams would only be on the books for a year - then that money opens up - which is one of the appeals of breaking up KAT's money. In the meantime, he'd be a very solid backup to Rudy - and with both of them older - there'd be some missed games between them. He'd be gone after his deal expires in one year - and then we'd go with a bigs group of Rudy - Naz - Smith - and Miller (who by then, we'd be wanting to see something from).

And I don't understand your assessment of Dillon Brooks at all. I personally REALLY don't like him and his schtick. But he's a very good defender - especially a dog on the perimeter - and in the meantime this year, is averaging 13 ppg on some of the best shooting of his career - 49%/38%/83%. More than a decent backup to Jaden - plus a nice priced contract to add in on a trade if it's needed. That doesn't seem like "negative value" at all. Final note on Brooks: Houston just beat SAS again, and Vic W credits their aggressive D, and particularly Brooks - who often was matched onto him. Vic scored 13.

Yeah sorry this package is gross too. Stil no good deals proposed that would make me pull the trigger.

Brooks is a cancer. Easy pass.

A broken KAT gets more than that.

well, let's hope KAT doesn't continue to get more broken. because then we might have a $50M guy who spends a good deal of the season rehabbing his next injury.

I personally hate Brooks. Big blowhard. But he's a pretty good, very good, defender who averages double figures on decent shooting. And if his departure from the Grizzlies is because he was a locker room cancer, i'd like to investigate that angle more. Memphis brass might not always make the best decisions in terms of populating that squad with adults - considering that besides Brooks, they've also rid themselves in the past couple years of Tyus Jones, Steven Adams and Xavier Tillman - all extremely solid citizens. Plus i think people are sleeping on Smith. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player quite soon.

Again - I'm okay with Karl back on the team next year. These are just fliers about what I think would be fair value. You disagree, I get that. But we better not see Karl sitting in the whirlpool next season for a large chunk because that shit is starting to look real familiar.

[Mplsfonz]

i think there's a lot to it in his mindset - and he's got some growing up to do. you can see the contrast between him and NAW. NAW just keeps it at an even keel emotionally, even when he's playing with intensity. Jaden has more a tendency to mope, to get angry, etc - when things get tense. NAW should introduce Jaden to his therapist.

I think Jaden is as "even keel" as they come. Even when he dunks on people, he doesn't flex, he just goes back to work. Flatliner.

This is why he restrains himself from doing stuff like, idk, punching walls? Or constantly fouling when he knows we need to keep him on the court? The face is a mask. He has a lot of growing up to do.

I didn't say he doesn't get emotional, like punching walls out of frustration. Almost every player does something stupid like knuckle pushups (Love) and punching teammates, (KG) But to say he mopes and is not even keel is just a matter of opinion. Show me a clip where he screams in jubilation, or mopes when he fouls. I think he is just not as advanced as Ant.
Keep in mind he's only 23. Ant had to grow up fast after his losses. Jaden grew up differently. Sometimes it takes a little more time to develop in the NBA. Like I said, matter of OP.

[Mplsfonz]

Yeah sorry this package is gross too. Stil no good deals proposed that would make me pull the trigger.

Brooks is a cancer. Easy pass.

A broken KAT gets more than that.

well, let's hope KAT doesn't continue to get more broken. because then we might have a $50M guy who spends a good deal of the season rehabbing his next injury.

I personally hate Brooks. Big blowhard. But he's a pretty good, very good, defender who averages double figures on decent shooting. And if his departure from the Grizzlies is because he was a locker room cancer, i'd like to investigate that angle more. Memphis brass might not always make the best decisions in terms of populating that squad with adults - considering that besides Brooks, they've also rid themselves in the past couple years of Tyus Jones, Steven Adams and Xavier Tillman - all extremely solid citizens. Plus i think people are sleeping on Smith. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player quite soon.

Again - I'm okay with Karl back on the team next year. These are just fliers about what I think would be fair value. You disagree, I get that. But we better not see Karl sitting in the whirlpool next season for a large chunk because that shit is starting to look real familiar.

I agree. But a locker room cancer is more devastating than KAT's injuries. He was a dick in Memphis. IMHO
Smith is nice, but not KAT worthy. I think we could get more. I wouldn't be upset with the trade, but think we could get better chemistry without Brooks. I felt the same with Morris.