KATs value

[Bullazin]

Guess we’re gonna find out his worth

[somuchyummy]

Too soon perhaps - but KAT's increased propensity for injury has been one of the red flags for those of us thinking about a trade. This was a great bounce back season for him in that regard - he'd missed only two games. But now, likely, it will also be the final 20 regular season games and into the playoffs. This has officially become a thing when discussing his value.

he missed 5 regular season games in his first four years. He'll now miss 134 regular seasons games in his last 5.

[weimy froob]

Too soon perhaps - but KAT's increased propensity for injury has been one of the red flags for those of us thinking about a trade. This was a great bounce back season for him in that regard - he'd missed only two games. But now, likely, it will also be the final 20 regular season games and into the playoffs. This has officially become a thing when discussing his value.

yep. value went down--but you can sell hope on a trade. teams have a tendency to look at the glass half full when they're making changes to the roster.

[HeHateMe]

Too soon perhaps - but KAT's increased propensity for injury has been one of the red flags for those of us thinking about a trade. This was a great bounce back season for him in that regard - he'd missed only two games. But now, likely, it will also be the final 20 regular season games and into the playoffs. This has officially become a thing when discussing his value.

yep. value went down--but you can sell hope on a trade. teams have a tendency to look at the glass half full when they're making changes to the roster.

He's an all-star this year, plenty of teams would take him for sure.

[SO_MONEY]

Too soon perhaps - but KAT's increased propensity for injury has been one of the red flags for those of us thinking about a trade. This was a great bounce back season for him in that regard - he'd missed only two games. But now, likely, it will also be the final 20 regular season games and into the playoffs. This has officially become a thing when discussing his value.

yep. value went down--but you can sell hope on a trade. teams have a tendency to look at the glass half full when they're making changes to the roster.

He's an all-star this year, plenty of teams would take him for sure.

Honestly, this probably hurts his trade value less than another poor playoff performance which has been his history. He had a good year. Now, as much as it sucks we get to see what the team looks like without him, where we are and if strengthening other parts of the team makes sense should we trade him.

[somuchyummy]

I'm not so sure. He's 28, starting a 5 yr/$158M deal next year, and he's showing a tendency to get injured. Of course it matters - and should be of concern to us even if he stays in Minnesota. 134 games out in the last 5 years is more than one and a half full seasons - nothing to sneeze at. And he's 28. If he even approaches Gordon Hayward territory, it won't be good in any case - keeping him or trading him.

[SO_MONEY]

I'm not so sure. He's 28, starting a 5 yr/$158M deal next year, and he's showing a tendency to get injured. Of course it matters - and should be of concern to us even if he stays in Minnesota. 134 games out in the last 5 years is more than one and a half full seasons - nothing to sneeze at. And he's 28. If he even approaches Gordon Hayward territory, it won't be good in any case - keeping him or trading him.

I personally am more concerned with the playoff stuff than the injury stuff. If we were talking repeated injuries of the same sort I would feel differently. There is nothing pointing to a breakdown of something, more to one-offs. Both hurt his value, but I don't think it is the same.

[Bullazin]

Is there a big we could get to split minutes with Naz? We are too good to not go all in this year.

[RubeTube]

I'm not so sure. He's 28, starting a 5 yr/$158M deal next year, and he's showing a tendency to get injured. Of course it matters - and should be of concern to us even if he stays in Minnesota. 134 games out in the last 5 years is more than one and a half full seasons - nothing to sneeze at. And he's 28. If he even approaches Gordon Hayward territory, it won't be good in any case - keeping him or trading him.

His trade value is higher than it was last offseason.

He was part of a winning team and playing well. His injury isn’t considered threatening to his career. Plus we don’t have to worry about him laying his playoff pile.

I hope Naz blows up.

Towns is no longer my main target anymore. McDaniels is the one I want moved now.

[Moses Scurry]

No KAT, this offense goes from good enough to embarrassment. His efficiency allows others to get theirs.

[HeHateMe]

No KAT, this offense goes from good enough to embarrassment. His efficiency allows others to get theirs.

Commit to Naz as the starting 4 next year.. move KAT for shooting wings and potentially a clear cut starting pg. Also if Naz moves to the starting 4 spot, you need another backup big behind.

[somuchyummy]

No KAT, this offense goes from good enough to embarrassment. His efficiency allows others to get theirs.

Commit to Naz as the starting 4 next year.. move KAT for shooting wings and potentially a clear cut starting pg. Also if Naz moves to the starting 4 spot, you need another backup big behind.

hehe hehe.... you said big behind.

As for that big behind, easy. Zach Edey, Ulrich Chomche, Daron Holmes II, Adem Bona, Ke'lel Ware, Zvonimir Ivisic, Ariel Hukporti or Johnni Broome at 36. That's where a lot of them generally hang out.

[HeHateMe]

Commit to Naz as the starting 4 next year.. move KAT for shooting wings and potentially a clear cut starting pg. Also if Naz moves to the starting 4 spot, you need another backup big behind.

hehe hehe.... you said big behind.

As for that big behind, easy. Zach Edey, Ulrich Chomche, Daron Holmes II, Adem Bona, Ke'lel Ware, Zvonimir Ivisic, Ariel Hukporti or Johnni Broome at 36. That's where a lot of them generally hang out.

Edey would be fun to watch... but I did say the same thing about Kofi Cockburn.

[somuchyummy]

Very different players.

[SO_MONEY]

Commit to Naz as the starting 4 next year.. move KAT for shooting wings and potentially a clear cut starting pg. Also if Naz moves to the starting 4 spot, you need another backup big behind.

hehe hehe.... you said big behind.

As for that big behind, easy. Zach Edey, Ulrich Chomche, Daron Holmes II, Adem Bona, Ke'lel Ware, Zvonimir Ivisic, Ariel Hukporti or Johnni Broome at 36. That's where a lot of them generally hang out.

And you one upped it by using Michael Jackson's pronouns twice!

[somuchyummy]

Commit to Naz as the starting 4 next year.. move KAT for shooting wings and potentially a clear cut starting pg. Also if Naz moves to the starting 4 spot, you need another backup big behind.

hehe hehe.... you said big behind.

As for that big behind, easy. Zach Edey, Ulrich Chomche, Daron Holmes II, Adem Bona, Ke'lel Ware, Zvonimir Ivisic, Ariel Hukporti or Johnni Broome at 36. That's where a lot of them generally hang out.

And you one upped it by using Michael Jackson's pronouns twice!

I was trying to assume the persona of either Beavis or Butthead, I forget which.

[Mplsfonz]

I have a question about a KAT trade.
Not that I really want to trade him, but seems like we won't really have a choice with the cap hit of $50 million.
So if we do trade him won't we have to take back about the same $50 million in assets?

How do we stay out of the Lux tax by trading him?
Anyone? Mlhouse?

[A$$MAN]

I think the thought process behind a Towns trade would be breaking up one large salary into 2-3 smaller salaries to help fill out the roster. Instead of being locked in to one salary for 4-5 years, perhaps you take back an expiring or two plus assets.

[HeHateMe]

I have a question about a KAT trade.
Not that I really want to trade him, but seems like we won't really have a choice with the cap hit of $50 million.
So if we do trade him won't we have to take back about the same $50 million in assets?

How do we stay out of the Lux tax by trading him?
Anyone? Mlhouse?

Take back less in the trade, send him to a team that's under the cap and can absorb all or some of his contract. Take back contracts that aren't fully guaranteed then waive it. Plenty of options.

[HeHateMe]

I think the thought process behind a Towns trade would be breaking up one large salary into 2-3 smaller salaries to help fill out the roster. Instead of being locked in to one salary for 4-5 years, perhaps you take back an expiring or two plus assets.

This would likely be the case, yes.

[Mplsfonz]

I have a question about a KAT trade.
Not that I really want to trade him, but seems like we won't really have a choice with the cap hit of $50 million.
So if we do trade him won't we have to take back about the same $50 million in assets?

How do we stay out of the Lux tax by trading him?
Anyone? Mlhouse?

Take back less in the trade, send him to a team that's under the cap and can absorb all or some of his contract. Take back contracts that aren't fully guaranteed then waive it. Plenty of options.

So, if I'm reading you right, we just get rid of him for expiring contracts? Get nothing of value back?
How much of the lux tax would they pay to keep him. Or am I reading you wrong? Seems like lose lose to me.

[A$$MAN]

There are many different options...and these are just examples to show them without deep diving into salary matching, player availability, etc.

Towns for D Murray, D Hunter, pick (two good players with smaller salaries and a pick)

Old trade idea Towns for Quickly, Fournier, Barrett, Toppin, picks (one promising player, one overpaid young player, an expiring, and smaller assets)

Towns to OKC for MULTIPLE first round picks and say Giddey (one expiring young player, and 4-5 firsts with OKC absorbing salary)

Many different ways to go if they choose that route.

[HeHateMe]

I have a question about a KAT trade.
Not that I really want to trade him, but seems like we won't really have a choice with the cap hit of $50 million.
So if we do trade him won't we have to take back about the same $50 million in assets?

How do we stay out of the Lux tax by trading him?
Anyone? Mlhouse?

Take back less in the trade, send him to a team that's under the cap and can absorb all or some of his contract. Take back contracts that aren't fully guaranteed then waive it. Plenty of options.

So, if I'm reading you right, we just get rid of him for expiring contracts? Get nothing of value back?
How much of the lux tax would they pay to keep him. Or am I reading you wrong? Seems like lose lose to me.

I am just laying out of options.. the likelihood either way is this team will be in the luxury tax next year... with or without KAT because I don't see a scenario where they move him and get nothing back in return in terms of salary... like some team is 50+ mil under the cap and just sents you a giant trade exception plus picks..

The scenario I laid out last summer would have been great... Quickley, Barrett and Toppin plus 2-3 firsts for KAT. That would have split his salary up into three guys then allowing you to move on if you need to in order to create more cap flexibility.

Here's another scenario...

Wolves trade KAT to the Warriors for CP3, Looney, Kuminga and Moody plus a first (or something)... this is just an example.

The Wolves waive CP3 because none of his money is guaranteed.

The Wolves now have Looney, Kuminga and Moody all on the books.


That's about 160 mil now for 12 guys below.. add in a couple draft picks to get to 14..


Gobert 43,827,586
Ant 35,500,000
Jaden 22,586,207
Naz 13,986,432
Conley $9,975,962
Looney $8,000,000
Jonathan Kuminga $7,636,307
Moses Moody $5,803,269
NAW 4,312,500
Moore Jr $2,537,04 (option)
Minott 2,019,699 (option)
Miller 1,891,857

With KAT, Gobert, Ant, Jaden, Naz, Conley, NAW, Moore Jr, Minott and Miller they're at about $186 million for next year.. will go higher of course with Ant likely making all nba and other guys they have to sign to get up to 14 players.

Second apron is: 189,486,000

[Mplsfonz]

Take back less in the trade, send him to a team that's under the cap and can absorb all or some of his contract. Take back contracts that aren't fully guaranteed then waive it. Plenty of options.

So, if I'm reading you right, we just get rid of him for expiring contracts? Get nothing of value back?
How much of the lux tax would they pay to keep him. Or am I reading you wrong? Seems like lose lose to me.

I am just laying out of options.. the likelihood either way is this team will be in the luxury tax next year... with or without KAT because I don't see a scenario where they move him and get nothing back in return in terms of salary... like some team is 50+ mil under the cap and just sents you a giant trade exception plus picks..

The scenario I laid out last summer would have been great... Quickley, Barrett and Toppin plus 2-3 firsts for KAT. That would have split his salary up into three guys then allowing you to move on if you need to in order to create more cap flexibility.

Here's another scenario...

Wolves trade KAT to the Warriors for CP3, Looney, Kuminga and Moody plus a first (or something)... this is just an example.

The Wolves waive CP3 because none of his money is guaranteed.

The Wolves now have Looney, Kuminga and Moody all on the books.


That's about 160 mil now for 12 guys below.. add in a couple draft picks to get to 14..


Gobert 43,827,586
Ant 35,500,000
Jaden 22,586,207
Naz 13,986,432
Conley $9,975,962
Looney $8,000,000
Jonathan Kuminga $7,636,307
Moses Moody $5,803,269
NAW 4,312,500
Moore Jr $2,537,04 (option)
Minott 2,019,699 (option)
Miller 1,891,857

With KAT, Gobert, Ant, Jaden, Naz, Conley, NAW, Moore Jr, Minott and Miller they're at about $186 million for next year.. will go higher of course with Ant likely making all nba and other guys they have to sign to get up to 14 players.

Second apron is: 189,486,000

I gottcha. The bolded I would have done yesterday.

[SHAFA]

There are many different options...and these are just examples to show them without deep diving into salary matching, player availability, etc.

Towns for D Murray, D Hunter, pick (two good players with smaller salaries and a pick)

Old trade idea Towns for Quickly, Fournier, Barrett, Toppin, picks (one promising player, one overpaid young player, an expiring, and smaller assets)

Towns to OKC for MULTIPLE first round picks and say Giddey (one expiring young player, and 4-5 firsts with OKC absorbing salary)

Many different ways to go if they choose that route.

Odds are good that we end up in the second apron though, right? And I believe the new salaries become effective once the moratorium kicks in at the beginning of July.

Assuming both of those are true, the window to even make these kinds of deals would be extremely small to start with and continue getting smaller the further we advance into the playoffs.

Once you pass that point though, again assuming we're a second apron team, you can't aggregate salaries to shed his.

[HeHateMe]

So, if I'm reading you right, we just get rid of him for expiring contracts? Get nothing of value back?
How much of the lux tax would they pay to keep him. Or am I reading you wrong? Seems like lose lose to me.

I am just laying out of options.. the likelihood either way is this team will be in the luxury tax next year... with or without KAT because I don't see a scenario where they move him and get nothing back in return in terms of salary... like some team is 50+ mil under the cap and just sents you a giant trade exception plus picks..

The scenario I laid out last summer would have been great... Quickley, Barrett and Toppin plus 2-3 firsts for KAT. That would have split his salary up into three guys then allowing you to move on if you need to in order to create more cap flexibility.

Here's another scenario...

Wolves trade KAT to the Warriors for CP3, Looney, Kuminga and Moody plus a first (or something)... this is just an example.

The Wolves waive CP3 because none of his money is guaranteed.

The Wolves now have Looney, Kuminga and Moody all on the books.


That's about 160 mil now for 12 guys below.. add in a couple draft picks to get to 14..


Gobert 43,827,586
Ant 35,500,000
Jaden 22,586,207
Naz 13,986,432
Conley $9,975,962
Looney $8,000,000
Jonathan Kuminga $7,636,307
Moses Moody $5,803,269
NAW 4,312,500
Moore Jr $2,537,04 (option)
Minott 2,019,699 (option)
Miller 1,891,857

With KAT, Gobert, Ant, Jaden, Naz, Conley, NAW, Moore Jr, Minott and Miller they're at about $186 million for next year.. will go higher of course with Ant likely making all nba and other guys they have to sign to get up to 14 players.

Second apron is: 189,486,000

I gottcha. The bolded I would have done yesterday.

Quickley has been incredible since joining Toronto. He would have been fantastic here.

[Mplsfonz]

There are many different options...and these are just examples to show them without deep diving into salary matching, player availability, etc.

Towns for D Murray, D Hunter, pick (two good players with smaller salaries and a pick)

Old trade idea Towns for Quickly, Fournier, Barrett, Toppin, picks (one promising player, one overpaid young player, an expiring, and smaller assets)

Towns to OKC for MULTIPLE first round picks and say Giddey (one expiring young player, and 4-5 firsts with OKC absorbing salary)

Many different ways to go if they choose that route.

Odds are good that we end up in the second apron though, right? And I believe the new salaries become effective once the moratorium kicks in at the beginning of July.

Assuming both of those are true, the window to even make these kinds of deals would be extremely small to start with and continue getting smaller the further we advance into the playoffs.

Once you pass that point though, again assuming we're a second apron team, you can't aggregate salaries to shed his.

Giddy is damaged goods.

[somuchyummy]

i mentioned an idea the other day - KAT to Houston for Steven Adams, Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith. Adams would be a nice one year backup to Rudy (contract expires after one). Brooks could be bench behind Jaden. And the hopeful prize of it all would be the continued development of PF Jabari Smith. The rub - outside of the fact that most people fucking hate Dillon Brooks - is that Brooks is also on a long deal. Three more years after this one at about $20M per season. Houston would look pretty good too - Sengun, KAT, Amen Thompson, Jalen Green and FVV - with Tari Eason, Cam Whitmore, Je'Sean Tate and a top 8 pick off the bench.

[SO_MONEY]

i mentioned an idea the other day - KAT to Houston for Steven Adams, Dillon Brooks and Jabari Smith. Adams would be a nice one year backup to Rudy (contract expires after one). Brooks could be bench behind Jaden. And the hopeful prize of it all would be the continued development of PF Jabari Smith. The rub - outside of the fact that most people fucking hate Dillon Brooks - is that Brooks is also on a long deal. Three more years after this one at about $20M per season. Houston would look pretty good too - Sengun, KAT, Amen Thompson, Jalen Green and FVV - with Tari Eason, Cam Whitmore, Je'Sean Tate and a top 8 pick off the bench.

Assuming we get like 4 picks? Maybe not? If not, not even close to value.

[somuchyummy]

you obviously don't see Jabari Smith in the same light that I do. He had a rough start to his rookie season - came back with a strong performance after the All-Star break - and this year has seen great growth in nearly every offensive statistical category. On top of that, he's an excellent defender - which paired with Rudy and Jaden, would be a tough out for any team we face. Great size for a PF - 6-11 220 - which means we wouldn't be ditching our twin towers idea. His shooting last year was not good - 49%/31%/79% - this year he's upped it to 52%/36%/82% - which is more than respectable for 2nd year PF who shoots 5 threes per game. As for him being a rookie bust, he finished the season as the first rookie in NBA history with 1000+ pts, 500+ rebs, 50+ blks and 100+ three pointers - plus the most NBA double doubles as a teenager (more than Garnett, AD and Carmelo). Not exactly a bust in my book. Maybe we could get a first thrown in - but your joke about 4 is just that, a joke.

The rotation:

Rudy/Adams
Smith/Naz
Jaden/Brooks
Ant/NAW
Mike/Monte