***official back in the day vikings thread***

[weimy froob]

i've been watching some old time vikings clips for a couple of months now--but there's no place here to retweet them. until now. i'm starting with this one. facenda's voice. snow. met stadium. but a game the purple lost. i have no clear memory of it right now--but i'm sure i watched it. mlhouse do you remember? or anyone else?

[weimy froob]

definitely remember this game. a saturday afternoon in soggy frisco. one of the greatest viking playoff victories in the history of the franchise.

[weimy froob]

this game was just a little before my time. it's going to take a few posts-but i think some of you will enjoy.

[weimy froob]

[weimy froob]

you'll be able to figure it out. this is how it has to be retweeted.

[weimy froob]

i think i just figured it out.

[weimy froob]

[weimy froob]

[mlhouse]

definitely remember this game. a saturday afternoon in soggy frisco. one of the greatest viking playoff victories in the history of the franchise.

This video gives the whole story. Anthony Carter had one of the greatest single game performance in Vikings history and his two game, including the previous playoff game vs. the Saints IS THE BEST 2 game stretch ever. He single handedly dominated two playoff games.

[hategreenticemase]

definitely remember this game. a saturday afternoon in soggy frisco. one of the greatest viking playoff victories in the history of the franchise.

This video gives the whole story. Anthony Carter had one of the greatest single game performance in Vikings history and his two game, including the previous playoff game vs. the Saints IS THE BEST 2 game stretch ever. He single handedly dominated two playoff games.

Indeed. He was incredible. What's more is if that squeaky voiced bitch didn't drop the ball at the goal line and we took that momentum to win in OT we win the SB.

If I had the power to make someone vanish from earth, Nelson would have been gone that day.

[mlhouse]

Indeed. He was incredible. What's more is if that squeaky voiced bitch didn't drop the ball at the goal line and we took that momentum to win in OT we win the SB.

If I had the power to make someone vanish from earth, Nelson would have been gone that day.

And, I will repeat that one of the factors in the play was Anthony Carter running the wrong route. He needed to clear out the area where Nelson was running his route. He didn't.

The other fact is, if Nelson catches the ball and we kick the extra point, the game is tied.

Still should have caught it.

[weimy froob]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

it still hurts a little to rehash that game. i was all in on a WS and SB championship combo that year. i felt certain it was going to happen after they beat the 49ers.

[hategreenticemase]

Indeed. He was incredible. What's more is if that squeaky voiced bitch didn't drop the ball at the goal line and we took that momentum to win in OT we win the SB.

If I had the power to make someone vanish from earth, Nelson would have been gone that day.

And, I will repeat that one of the factors in the play was Anthony Carter running the wrong route. He needed to clear out the area where Nelson was running his route. He didn't.

The other fact is, if Nelson catches the ball and we kick the extra point, the game is tied.

Still should have caught it.

Thus the reason for stating "take that momentum to win in OT". Catch the fucking ball. Worst decision in franchise history drafting that fucker.

[Sarge]

Great days. Sundays couldn't come fast enough.

[mlhouse]

Thus the reason for stating "take that momentum to win in OT". Catch the fucking ball. Worst decision in franchise history drafting that fucker.

Nelson was far from the worst draft decision they have made.

[Beef Supreme]

Thus the reason for stating "take that momentum to win in OT". Catch the fucking ball. Worst decision in franchise history drafting that fucker.

Nelson was far from the worst draft decision they have made.

The argument is half that Nelson was bad. The other half is that they should have taken Marcus Allen (probably the most underrated and forgotten HOF running back ever). I was too young, but I know some older folks who all said they wanted Allen.

But we had Nelson. Which led indirectly to us trading for Hershel Walker.


If we have Marcus Allen we probably don't trade for Herschel Walker. And then a lot is different.


I'm not sure it's the worst move ever, but I get the argument.

[mlhouse]

The argument is half that Nelson was bad. The other half is that they should have taken Marcus Allen (probably the most underrated and forgotten HOF running back ever). I was too young, but I know some older folks who all said they wanted Allen.

But we had Nelson. Which led indirectly to us trading for Hershel Walker.


If we have Marcus Allen we probably don't trade for Herschel Walker. And then a lot is different.


I'm not sure it's the worst move ever, but I get the argument.

I get the argument, but as I have pointed out to others, Marcus Allen wasn't even the next running back selected in the draft, Gerald Riggs was. So this concept that Marcus Allen was some no-brainer pick that only idiots would make is not supported by the evidence. Marcus Allen was the 10th player picked and the 3rd running back selected in the 1982 NFL Draft.

That does not mean that with hindsight we should not have selected Marcus Allen. But Darrin Nelson was seen as the more versatile back who ran for 1000 yards as a senior and caught 67 passes for 846 yards as a senior (he had 3 1,000 yard seasons at Stanford) and that is the type of running back the Vikings wanted in 1982.

Second, I think there is a lot of overrating of Marcus Allen. In 16 seasons Allen only rushed for 1,000 or more yards in 3 seasons, 1983-1985. He was only an all-pro running back twice. After his 380 carry - 1,759 yard season in 1985 he was never the same running back again even though his career lasted another 12 more seasons. In his next 7 seasons with the Raiders he was a shell of a player with 3 of those seasons being under 301 rushing yards.

Third, One of those seasons in which he rushed for under 300 yards was 1989, a year in which Allen carried the ball 69 times for 293 yards. Why is that important? That was the season the Vikings made the Herschel Walker trade.

Fourth, Marcus Allen was one of the most overrated football players in the NFL. In 1986 and 1987 he was selected to the Pro-Bowl and in 1986 was UPI All Conference 2nd Team despite just rushing for a few yards over 750 in those seasons with crappy 3.6 and 3.8 yards/carry. In 1986 he was 18th in the NFL in rushing yards (Darrin Nelson was 16th) and 32nd in Yards/carry (Darrin Nelson was 14th) and was selected to the Pro Bowl. The next time he made the Pro-Bowl was his first year in Kansas City were he was 15th in the NFL in rushing and 28th in the NFL in yard/carry.

So, while I get the hindsight the fact is, Marcus Allen was a mediocre/average back at best over the majority of his career, would not have made a difference in trading/not trading for Hershel Walker, got to 12,000 yards rushing because he played 16 seasons in the NFL and had a mini-career revival when he played in Kansas City the last 5 years of his career.

He did have 4 great seasons to start his career and was an Oakland Raider. That carried him to the Hall of Fame.

[hategreenticemase]

Thus the reason for stating "take that momentum to win in OT". Catch the fucking ball. Worst decision in franchise history drafting that fucker.

Nelson was far from the worst draft decision they have made.

The argument is half that Nelson was bad. The other half is that they should have taken Marcus Allen (probably the most underrated and forgotten HOF running back ever). I was too young, but I know some older folks who all said they wanted Allen.

But we had Nelson. Which led indirectly to us trading for Hershel Walker.


If we have Marcus Allen we probably don't trade for Herschel Walker. And then a lot is different.


I'm not sure it's the worst move ever, but I get the argument.

Exactly this. The unbelievable and can't make it up irony is the whole point of drafting Nelson was Burnsie throwing to backs a ton and basically the west coast offense placed a premium on that, and Marcus Allen retired as leading pass catching rb in history.

Further irony, the absolute entire reason that led to first drafting DJ Dozier and 2nd the embarrassing Herschel trade was we were beyond awful in short yardage/goalline situations. I will never forget a game at the Rams where game ended after we failed 4 times from the 1. That was the genesis of it all. It became a battle cry in that mid to late 80s time frame that we were 1 rb away from being a potential SB winner. So what was the irony you may ask? Marcus Allen retired the most tds in history.

It's the worst decision in Viking history, period. A strong case can be made we win 1 or maybe 2 SB with him. He was unbelievably perfect for our offense. And no matter what, if he was drafted we don't know what "Herschel trade" means today.

[hategreenticemase]

The argument is half that Nelson was bad. The other half is that they should have taken Marcus Allen (probably the most underrated and forgotten HOF running back ever). I was too young, but I know some older folks who all said they wanted Allen.

But we had Nelson. Which led indirectly to us trading for Hershel Walker.


If we have Marcus Allen we probably don't trade for Herschel Walker. And then a lot is different.


I'm not sure it's the worst move ever, but I get the argument.

I get the argument, but as I have pointed out to others, Marcus Allen wasn't even the next running back selected in the draft, Gerald Riggs was. So this concept that Marcus Allen was some no-brainer pick that only idiots would make is not supported by the evidence. Marcus Allen was the 10th player picked and the 3rd running back selected in the 1982 NFL Draft.

That does not mean that with hindsight we should not have selected Marcus Allen. But Darrin Nelson was seen as the more versatile back who ran for 1000 yards as a senior and caught 67 passes for 846 yards as a senior (he had 3 1,000 yard seasons at Stanford) and that is the type of running back the Vikings wanted in 1982.

Second, I think there is a lot of overrating of Marcus Allen. In 16 seasons Allen only rushed for 1,000 or more yards in 3 seasons, 1983-1985. He was only an all-pro running back twice. After his 380 carry - 1,759 yard season in 1985 he was never the same running back again even though his career lasted another 12 more seasons. In his next 7 seasons with the Raiders he was a shell of a player with 3 of those seasons being under 301 rushing yards.

Third, One of those seasons in which he rushed for under 300 yards was 1989, a year in which Allen carried the ball 69 times for 293 yards. Why is that important? That was the season the Vikings made the Herschel Walker trade.

Fourth, Marcus Allen was one of the most overrated football players in the NFL. In 1986 and 1987 he was selected to the Pro-Bowl and in 1986 was UPI All Conference 2nd Team despite just rushing for a few yards over 750 in those seasons with crappy 3.6 and 3.8 yards/carry. In 1986 he was 18th in the NFL in rushing yards (Darrin Nelson was 16th) and 32nd in Yards/carry (Darrin Nelson was 14th) and was selected to the Pro Bowl. The next time he made the Pro-Bowl was his first year in Kansas City were he was 15th in the NFL in rushing and 28th in the NFL in yard/carry.

So, while I get the hindsight the fact is, Marcus Allen was a mediocre/average back at best over the majority of his career, would not have made a difference in trading/not trading for Hershel Walker, got to 12,000 yards rushing because he played 16 seasons in the NFL and had a mini-career revival when he played in Kansas City the last 5 years of his career.

He did have 4 great seasons to start his career and was an Oakland Raider. That carried him to the Hall of Fame.

First of all, the Vikings wanted a pass catcher and is the sole reason they drafted Nelson. Marcus Allen retired as the all time leading pass catcher as a rb. Riggs was never a fit. Obviously Allen didn't catch much as USC but it was incredibly obvious what a remarkable athlete be was.

Secondly, man, what a shocking post from you. Typically you know history pretty well. It's stunning you are so far off on this one. Using stats that are 100% explainable as the basis for your absurd point that Marcus Allen was "overrated". Wow.

Marcus Allen had a precipitous drop in production partially because he had a major knee injury one year and mostly because he was the victim of one of the strangest, most bizarre and preposterous situations in NFL history.

What Al Davis did to Marcus Allen over his last 4 or 5 years with Oakland was shameful. Absolutely shameful. Al Davis basically blackballed his own player and forced the Raiders to not use him. How the F do you not remember that? Go watch the NFL life or Sports Century on Allen, it was absolutely fascinating and straight up bizarre the vindictive agenda Davis had. Check out article below and note especially the remarks from Terry Robiskie (and watch NFL episode on Allen, it's very good).

Why the hell do you think he goes to KC and is again a catalyst for their success early 90s when the guy was in his mid 30s? Davis tried to ruin his career and forced him to be a back up the last 3 years in Oakland and he then goes to KC and leads the AFC in TD.

NFL MVP. SB MVP. Fn HOF player who retired all time rb receptions leader and td scorer - "overrated". Sorry, man, but this was a Rooboobretard level post. Good Lord.

[hategreenticemase]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raide ... allen-feud


ALAMEDA -- From the moment Marcus Allen returned to the Raiders in September to light the Al Davis memorial flame, I wondered if this more recent vintage of Raider fan realized just how big of a deal it was at the time.A

After all, the Allen-Davis feud of the late 1980's and early 1990s was the dominant storyline as the team called Los Angeles home. The rookie of the year, Super Bowl MVP and NFL MVP had been chained to the bench and reduced to a blocking fullback in Davis' doghouse. The eventual comeback player of the year, with Kansas City in 1993, was reduced to playing bit roles behind the likes of Bo Jackson, Greg Bell, Roger Craig and Eric Dickerson in his last seasons with the Raiders.

And while tonight's NFL Network documentary "Marcus Allen: A Football Life" covers the entirety of his football playing career, from Lincoln High School in San Diego to winning the Heisman Trophy in 1981 at USC to being the Raiders' first-round draft choice in 1982, to his finishing up in Kansas City, what is most intriguing to Raiders fans is the part that delves into the feud.

Former assistant Terry Robiskie spoke of inserting Allen into a 1989 game the Raiders trailed the Cardinals by five points and at the four-yard line late. Robiskie knew playing Allen was against Davis' wishes.

"Not to get yelled at and screamed at and fussed at, I took my headset off," Robiskie said with a laugh.

"I got a little slap on the face, saying, 'Hey, we wasn't supposed to do that. I thought we wasn't going to put him him.' But good thing we did; we won the game…those guys' battles was bigger than us."

TRENDING

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[REWIND: Marcus Allen to light Al Davis flame]

Allen remembered the aftermath.

"Going back to the locker room...Al gave me a dirty look, which was the strangest thing in the world because you figure you want to win the game, regardless of who does it," Allen said. "But it was just another awkward situation. The animosity was pretty thick around there."

Allen also spoke of the Raiders continually bringing in those other players to take time from him.

"I don't think there's been any great running back in the league that has ever had to share the position with that many great running backs," Allen said.

"There was a time that I came into camp fourth string. I'm in the Hall of Fame, by the way, but I came into camp fourth string, I just want you to know that."

Said Robiskie: "How did he end up falling from one to fourth (on the depth chart)? Now that came from the top."

The documentary, on the heels of last week's ESPN 30-for-30 production on Bo Jackson, is clean and seamless. Allen, though, never addresses exactly why he and Davis were at loggerheads.

"(Al) felt at some point that Marcus was getting bigger than the Raiders and he had a hard time with that because it was always about the Raiders," former Raiders executive Ron Wolf said. "Whatever the split was, that caused that."

Of course, the most scandalous theory out there, and given renewed life by Murray Olderman's new book, "Just Win, Baby, The Al Davis Story," is that Davis disapproved of Allen's relationship with O.J. Simpson and his inner circle.

"I never quite understood what made things go bad," Allen said. "To me the whole thing was a waste of great talent and energy. If you don't like me, let me go. And I never understood that. Let me go play football someplace else. Now, if you love power, I can understand why you keep me there.

"I think of what could have been, the perfect marriage in Los Angeles with the Raiders. It just didn't turn out to be. And it was, it was a shame."

Others interviewed in the documentary include Allen's parents, Harold and Gwendolyn, The Psycho Schottenheimer, Ronnie Lott, John Robinson, Howie Long, Al Michaels, Jim Plunkett and Matt Millen.

"I spent 25 seasons with the Raiders," Wolf said. "Of all the players that ever came through during the time that I was there, somebody has to be No. 1. Marcus Allen was No. 1. He's the best player during my time with the Raiders that I've ever seen."

The story, like the documentary, played out with Allen finishing with the Chiefs. In fact, it was with the Chiefs that Allen went 9-1 against the Raiders and became the first player in NFL history with 10,000 rushing yards and 5,000 receiving yards.

"I never thought about getting back (at Davis and the Raiders)," Allen claimed. "Never. Never once, You've got to understand, I loved the guys that I played with and I was always conflicted in that regard.

"I don't hate the Raiders. I don't hate the helmet. I don't hate the colors. I don't hate anybody. I didn't even hate Al. We had a disagreement and life is too short to dwell on it, and you move on."

[weimy froob]

a chance for a gale sayers sighting with the purple as the backdrop. moony winston and wally hilgenberg in the film. who's 25?

Spoiler:

edit: i just looked it up. if you can pull this one out without google you are a minnesota vikings superfan from back in the day.

[hategreenticemase]

a chance for a gale sayers sighting with the purple as the backdrop. moony winston and wally hilgenberg in the film. who's 25?

Spoiler:

edit: i just looked it up. if you can pull this one out without google you are a minnesota vikings superfan from back in the day.

I looked up old rosters and see no 25. Odd deal. Maybe a mid season replacement or something .

[Angry Waters]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raide ... allen-feud


ALAMEDA -- From the moment Marcus Allen returned to the Raiders in September to light the Al Davis memorial flame, I wondered if this more recent vintage of Raider fan realized just how big of a deal it was at the time.A

After all, the Allen-Davis feud of the late 1980's and early 1990s was the dominant storyline as the team called Los Angeles home. The rookie of the year, Super Bowl MVP and NFL MVP had been chained to the bench and reduced to a blocking fullback in Davis' doghouse. The eventual comeback player of the year, with Kansas City in 1993, was reduced to playing bit roles behind the likes of Bo Jackson, Greg Bell, Roger Craig and Eric Dickerson in his last seasons with the Raiders.

And while tonight's NFL Network documentary "Marcus Allen: A Football Life" covers the entirety of his football playing career, from Lincoln High School in San Diego to winning the Heisman Trophy in 1981 at USC to being the Raiders' first-round draft choice in 1982, to his finishing up in Kansas City, what is most intriguing to Raiders fans is the part that delves into the feud.

Former assistant Terry Robiskie spoke of inserting Allen into a 1989 game the Raiders trailed the Cardinals by five points and at the four-yard line late. Robiskie knew playing Allen was against Davis' wishes.

"Not to get yelled at and screamed at and fussed at, I took my headset off," Robiskie said with a laugh.

"I got a little slap on the face, saying, 'Hey, we wasn't supposed to do that. I thought we wasn't going to put him him.' But good thing we did; we won the game…those guys' battles was bigger than us."

TRENDING

Barnwell proposes 'bombshell' trade with Wilson, Carr, Waller
MAR 10, 2021

2021 NFL free agency guide: Raiders' cap space, top free agents
MAR 10, 2021

Gruden's 2019 comments don't reflect well on 2021 Raiders
MAR 9, 2021
[REWIND: Marcus Allen to light Al Davis flame]

Allen remembered the aftermath.

"Going back to the locker room...Al gave me a dirty look, which was the strangest thing in the world because you figure you want to win the game, regardless of who does it," Allen said. "But it was just another awkward situation. The animosity was pretty thick around there."

Allen also spoke of the Raiders continually bringing in those other players to take time from him.

"I don't think there's been any great running back in the league that has ever had to share the position with that many great running backs," Allen said.

"There was a time that I came into camp fourth string. I'm in the Hall of Fame, by the way, but I came into camp fourth string, I just want you to know that."

Said Robiskie: "How did he end up falling from one to fourth (on the depth chart)? Now that came from the top."

The documentary, on the heels of last week's ESPN 30-for-30 production on Bo Jackson, is clean and seamless. Allen, though, never addresses exactly why he and Davis were at loggerheads.

"(Al) felt at some point that Marcus was getting bigger than the Raiders and he had a hard time with that because it was always about the Raiders," former Raiders executive Ron Wolf said. "Whatever the split was, that caused that."

Of course, the most scandalous theory out there, and given renewed life by Murray Olderman's new book, "Just Win, Baby, The Al Davis Story," is that Davis disapproved of Allen's relationship with O.J. Simpson and his inner circle.

"I never quite understood what made things go bad," Allen said. "To me the whole thing was a waste of great talent and energy. If you don't like me, let me go. And I never understood that. Let me go play football someplace else. Now, if you love power, I can understand why you keep me there.

"I think of what could have been, the perfect marriage in Los Angeles with the Raiders. It just didn't turn out to be. And it was, it was a shame."

Others interviewed in the documentary include Allen's parents, Harold and Gwendolyn, The Psycho Schottenheimer, Ronnie Lott, John Robinson, Howie Long, Al Michaels, Jim Plunkett and Matt Millen.

"I spent 25 seasons with the Raiders," Wolf said. "Of all the players that ever came through during the time that I was there, somebody has to be No. 1. Marcus Allen was No. 1. He's the best player during my time with the Raiders that I've ever seen."

The story, like the documentary, played out with Allen finishing with the Chiefs. In fact, it was with the Chiefs that Allen went 9-1 against the Raiders and became the first player in NFL history with 10,000 rushing yards and 5,000 receiving yards.

"I never thought about getting back (at Davis and the Raiders)," Allen claimed. "Never. Never once, You've got to understand, I loved the guys that I played with and I was always conflicted in that regard.

"I don't hate the Raiders. I don't hate the helmet. I don't hate the colors. I don't hate anybody. I didn't even hate Al. We had a disagreement and life is too short to dwell on it, and you move on."

Yeah--I'd agree that 'anecdotal clearly buries the empirical' in this case. Keep in mind, too, of the Bo Jackson effect in LA. As a little kid, I still remember being pissed we didn't draft Marcus Allen--probably because I had never previously heard of Darrin Nelson. I was fucking 9 years old, so pardon the 'ignorance'.

Without getting too far into this, I'm surprised the Raiders didn't try to trade M. Allen at his presumed peak value--especially after Bo was coming to town.

[hategreenticemase]

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raide ... allen-feud


ALAMEDA -- From the moment Marcus Allen returned to the Raiders in September to light the Al Davis memorial flame, I wondered if this more recent vintage of Raider fan realized just how big of a deal it was at the time.A

After all, the Allen-Davis feud of the late 1980's and early 1990s was the dominant storyline as the team called Los Angeles home. The rookie of the year, Super Bowl MVP and NFL MVP had been chained to the bench and reduced to a blocking fullback in Davis' doghouse. The eventual comeback player of the year, with Kansas City in 1993, was reduced to playing bit roles behind the likes of Bo Jackson, Greg Bell, Roger Craig and Eric Dickerson in his last seasons with the Raiders.

And while tonight's NFL Network documentary "Marcus Allen: A Football Life" covers the entirety of his football playing career, from Lincoln High School in San Diego to winning the Heisman Trophy in 1981 at USC to being the Raiders' first-round draft choice in 1982, to his finishing up in Kansas City, what is most intriguing to Raiders fans is the part that delves into the feud.

Former assistant Terry Robiskie spoke of inserting Allen into a 1989 game the Raiders trailed the Cardinals by five points and at the four-yard line late. Robiskie knew playing Allen was against Davis' wishes.

"Not to get yelled at and screamed at and fussed at, I took my headset off," Robiskie said with a laugh.

"I got a little slap on the face, saying, 'Hey, we wasn't supposed to do that. I thought we wasn't going to put him him.' But good thing we did; we won the game…those guys' battles was bigger than us."

TRENDING

Barnwell proposes 'bombshell' trade with Wilson, Carr, Waller
MAR 10, 2021

2021 NFL free agency guide: Raiders' cap space, top free agents
MAR 10, 2021

Gruden's 2019 comments don't reflect well on 2021 Raiders
MAR 9, 2021
[REWIND: Marcus Allen to light Al Davis flame]

Allen remembered the aftermath.

"Going back to the locker room...Al gave me a dirty look, which was the strangest thing in the world because you figure you want to win the game, regardless of who does it," Allen said. "But it was just another awkward situation. The animosity was pretty thick around there."

Allen also spoke of the Raiders continually bringing in those other players to take time from him.

"I don't think there's been any great running back in the league that has ever had to share the position with that many great running backs," Allen said.

"There was a time that I came into camp fourth string. I'm in the Hall of Fame, by the way, but I came into camp fourth string, I just want you to know that."

Said Robiskie: "How did he end up falling from one to fourth (on the depth chart)? Now that came from the top."

The documentary, on the heels of last week's ESPN 30-for-30 production on Bo Jackson, is clean and seamless. Allen, though, never addresses exactly why he and Davis were at loggerheads.

"(Al) felt at some point that Marcus was getting bigger than the Raiders and he had a hard time with that because it was always about the Raiders," former Raiders executive Ron Wolf said. "Whatever the split was, that caused that."

Of course, the most scandalous theory out there, and given renewed life by Murray Olderman's new book, "Just Win, Baby, The Al Davis Story," is that Davis disapproved of Allen's relationship with O.J. Simpson and his inner circle.

"I never quite understood what made things go bad," Allen said. "To me the whole thing was a waste of great talent and energy. If you don't like me, let me go. And I never understood that. Let me go play football someplace else. Now, if you love power, I can understand why you keep me there.

"I think of what could have been, the perfect marriage in Los Angeles with the Raiders. It just didn't turn out to be. And it was, it was a shame."

Others interviewed in the documentary include Allen's parents, Harold and Gwendolyn, The Psycho Schottenheimer, Ronnie Lott, John Robinson, Howie Long, Al Michaels, Jim Plunkett and Matt Millen.

"I spent 25 seasons with the Raiders," Wolf said. "Of all the players that ever came through during the time that I was there, somebody has to be No. 1. Marcus Allen was No. 1. He's the best player during my time with the Raiders that I've ever seen."

The story, like the documentary, played out with Allen finishing with the Chiefs. In fact, it was with the Chiefs that Allen went 9-1 against the Raiders and became the first player in NFL history with 10,000 rushing yards and 5,000 receiving yards.

"I never thought about getting back (at Davis and the Raiders)," Allen claimed. "Never. Never once, You've got to understand, I loved the guys that I played with and I was always conflicted in that regard.

"I don't hate the Raiders. I don't hate the helmet. I don't hate the colors. I don't hate anybody. I didn't even hate Al. We had a disagreement and life is too short to dwell on it, and you move on."

Yeah--I'd agree that 'anecdotal clearly buries the empirical' in this case. Keep in mind, too, of the Bo Jackson effect in LA. As a little kid, I still remember being pissed we didn't draft Marcus Allen--probably because I had never previously heard of Darrin Nelson. I was fucking 9 years old, so pardon the 'ignorance'.

Without getting too far into this, I'm surprised the Raiders didn't try to trade M. Allen at his presumed peak value--especially after Bo was coming to town.

Well I was 12 and a major college football fan. I knew more than many adults about college football. I was devastated when we could have had him and instead drafted this disco loving bitch instead.

Marcus Allen was the fullback when Charles White won the Heisman. So when Bo was getting the HB opportunities he asked to play fullback so they were both on the field. Was why his ypc dropped some as well.

As for not trading him, that was 100% he was trying to ruin his career. Thats how bad it was. Ridiculous stuff. I actually like a lot of things about Al Davis and many are not aware of unbelievable gestures he did for former players but he was a scumbag to Allen.

[weimy froob]

a chance for a gale sayers sighting with the purple as the backdrop. moony winston and wally hilgenberg in the film. who's 25?

Spoiler:

edit: i just looked it up. if you can pull this one out without google you are a minnesota vikings superfan from back in the day.

I looked up old rosters and see no 25. Odd deal. Maybe a mid season replacement or something .

i found it. played one year for the team and i bet he was just that. look under something like who wore number 25 in minnesota vikings history. i used something like that to find out who he was. never heard of him before--can't vouch.

[mlhouse]

The argument is half that Nelson was bad. The other half is that they should have taken Marcus Allen (probably the most underrated and forgotten HOF running back ever). I was too young, but I know some older folks who all said they wanted Allen.

But we had Nelson. Which led indirectly to us trading for Hershel Walker.


If we have Marcus Allen we probably don't trade for Herschel Walker. And then a lot is different.


I'm not sure it's the worst move ever, but I get the argument.

I get the argument, but as I have pointed out to others, Marcus Allen wasn't even the next running back selected in the draft, Gerald Riggs was. So this concept that Marcus Allen was some no-brainer pick that only idiots would make is not supported by the evidence. Marcus Allen was the 10th player picked and the 3rd running back selected in the 1982 NFL Draft.

That does not mean that with hindsight we should not have selected Marcus Allen. But Darrin Nelson was seen as the more versatile back who ran for 1000 yards as a senior and caught 67 passes for 846 yards as a senior (he had 3 1,000 yard seasons at Stanford) and that is the type of running back the Vikings wanted in 1982.

Second, I think there is a lot of overrating of Marcus Allen. In 16 seasons Allen only rushed for 1,000 or more yards in 3 seasons, 1983-1985. He was only an all-pro running back twice. After his 380 carry - 1,759 yard season in 1985 he was never the same running back again even though his career lasted another 12 more seasons. In his next 7 seasons with the Raiders he was a shell of a player with 3 of those seasons being under 301 rushing yards.

Third, One of those seasons in which he rushed for under 300 yards was 1989, a year in which Allen carried the ball 69 times for 293 yards. Why is that important? That was the season the Vikings made the Herschel Walker trade.

Fourth, Marcus Allen was one of the most overrated football players in the NFL. In 1986 and 1987 he was selected to the Pro-Bowl and in 1986 was UPI All Conference 2nd Team despite just rushing for a few yards over 750 in those seasons with crappy 3.6 and 3.8 yards/carry. In 1986 he was 18th in the NFL in rushing yards (Darrin Nelson was 16th) and 32nd in Yards/carry (Darrin Nelson was 14th) and was selected to the Pro Bowl. The next time he made the Pro-Bowl was his first year in Kansas City were he was 15th in the NFL in rushing and 28th in the NFL in yard/carry.

So, while I get the hindsight the fact is, Marcus Allen was a mediocre/average back at best over the majority of his career, would not have made a difference in trading/not trading for Hershel Walker, got to 12,000 yards rushing because he played 16 seasons in the NFL and had a mini-career revival when he played in Kansas City the last 5 years of his career.

He did have 4 great seasons to start his career and was an Oakland Raider. That carried him to the Hall of Fame.

First of all, the Vikings wanted a pass catcher and is the sole reason they drafted Nelson. Marcus Allen retired as the all time leading pass catcher as a rb. Riggs was never a fit. Obviously Allen didn't catch much as USC but it was incredibly obvious what a remarkable athlete be was.

Secondly, man, what a shocking post from you. Typically you know history pretty well. It's stunning you are so far off on this one. Using stats that are 100% explainable as the basis for your absurd point that Marcus Allen was "overrated". Wow.

Marcus Allen had a precipitous drop in production partially because he had a major knee injury one year and mostly because he was the victim of one of the strangest, most bizarre and preposterous situations in NFL history.

What Al Davis did to Marcus Allen over his last 4 or 5 years with Oakland was shameful. Absolutely shameful. Al Davis basically blackballed his own player and forced the Raiders to not use him. How the F do you not remember that? Go watch the NFL life or Sports Century on Allen, it was absolutely fascinating and straight up bizarre the vindictive agenda Davis had. Check out article below and note especially the remarks from Terry Robiskie (and watch NFL episode on Allen, it's very good).

Why the hell do you think he goes to KC and is again a catalyst for their success early 90s when the guy was in his mid 30s? Davis tried to ruin his career and forced him to be a back up the last 3 years in Oakland and he then goes to KC and leads the AFC in TD.

NFL MVP. SB MVP. Fn HOF player who retired all time rb receptions leader and td scorer - "overrated". Sorry, man, but this was a Rooboobretard level post. Good Lord.

Marcus Allen was significantly overrated. He only had four good seasons in the NFL. His other 12 he was a mediocre/average at best running back. After 1985 and his 1,759 yard season he never had another thousand yard season in his career. He never had a 900 yard season. He never had a season in which he had more than 100 attempts and greater than 4.0 yards/carry until the last couple seasons in Kansas City. Whatever "records" he has it is because of his longevity, not because of his great seasons.

He is overrated. He had the great start to his career. He had the Super Bowl hero performance. He was an Oakland Raider. Overrated.

[hategreenticemase]

I get the argument, but as I have pointed out to others, Marcus Allen wasn't even the next running back selected in the draft, Gerald Riggs was. So this concept that Marcus Allen was some no-brainer pick that only idiots would make is not supported by the evidence. Marcus Allen was the 10th player picked and the 3rd running back selected in the 1982 NFL Draft.

That does not mean that with hindsight we should not have selected Marcus Allen. But Darrin Nelson was seen as the more versatile back who ran for 1000 yards as a senior and caught 67 passes for 846 yards as a senior (he had 3 1,000 yard seasons at Stanford) and that is the type of running back the Vikings wanted in 1982.

Second, I think there is a lot of overrating of Marcus Allen. In 16 seasons Allen only rushed for 1,000 or more yards in 3 seasons, 1983-1985. He was only an all-pro running back twice. After his 380 carry - 1,759 yard season in 1985 he was never the same running back again even though his career lasted another 12 more seasons. In his next 7 seasons with the Raiders he was a shell of a player with 3 of those seasons being under 301 rushing yards.

Third, One of those seasons in which he rushed for under 300 yards was 1989, a year in which Allen carried the ball 69 times for 293 yards. Why is that important? That was the season the Vikings made the Herschel Walker trade.

Fourth, Marcus Allen was one of the most overrated football players in the NFL. In 1986 and 1987 he was selected to the Pro-Bowl and in 1986 was UPI All Conference 2nd Team despite just rushing for a few yards over 750 in those seasons with crappy 3.6 and 3.8 yards/carry. In 1986 he was 18th in the NFL in rushing yards (Darrin Nelson was 16th) and 32nd in Yards/carry (Darrin Nelson was 14th) and was selected to the Pro Bowl. The next time he made the Pro-Bowl was his first year in Kansas City were he was 15th in the NFL in rushing and 28th in the NFL in yard/carry.

So, while I get the hindsight the fact is, Marcus Allen was a mediocre/average back at best over the majority of his career, would not have made a difference in trading/not trading for Hershel Walker, got to 12,000 yards rushing because he played 16 seasons in the NFL and had a mini-career revival when he played in Kansas City the last 5 years of his career.

He did have 4 great seasons to start his career and was an Oakland Raider. That carried him to the Hall of Fame.

First of all, the Vikings wanted a pass catcher and is the sole reason they drafted Nelson. Marcus Allen retired as the all time leading pass catcher as a rb. Riggs was never a fit. Obviously Allen didn't catch much as USC but it was incredibly obvious what a remarkable athlete be was.

Secondly, man, what a shocking post from you. Typically you know history pretty well. It's stunning you are so far off on this one. Using stats that are 100% explainable as the basis for your absurd point that Marcus Allen was "overrated". Wow.

Marcus Allen had a precipitous drop in production partially because he had a major knee injury one year and mostly because he was the victim of one of the strangest, most bizarre and preposterous situations in NFL history.

What Al Davis did to Marcus Allen over his last 4 or 5 years with Oakland was shameful. Absolutely shameful. Al Davis basically blackballed his own player and forced the Raiders to not use him. How the F do you not remember that? Go watch the NFL life or Sports Century on Allen, it was absolutely fascinating and straight up bizarre the vindictive agenda Davis had. Check out article below and note especially the remarks from Terry Robiskie (and watch NFL episode on Allen, it's very good).

Why the hell do you think he goes to KC and is again a catalyst for their success early 90s when the guy was in his mid 30s? Davis tried to ruin his career and forced him to be a back up the last 3 years in Oakland and he then goes to KC and leads the AFC in TD.

NFL MVP. SB MVP. Fn HOF player who retired all time rb receptions leader and td scorer - "overrated". Sorry, man, but this was a Rooboobretard level post. Good Lord.

Marcus Allen was significantly overrated. He only had four good seasons in the NFL. His other 12 he was a mediocre/average at best running back. After 1985 and his 1,759 yard season he never had another thousand yard season in his career. He never had a 900 yard season. He never had a season in which he had more than 100 attempts and greater than 4.0 yards/carry until the last couple seasons in Kansas City. Whatever "records" he has it is because of his longevity, not because of his great seasons.

He is overrated. He had the great start to his career. He had the Super Bowl hero performance. He was an Oakland Raider. Overrated.

This is what I love about you, these occasional off the reservation rants where your irrational take is destroyed with facts and you simply double down by stomping your feet and coming back with "he is overrated because I said so"!

His last 4 years as a Raider here are his carries: 69, 179, 63 and 67. That's in spite of those years his ypc were 4.2, 3.8, 4.6 and 4.5.
A God damn NFL mvp, enters the season as a 4th string hb one year. That's the kind of shit Davis mandated he actually entered training camp listed as 4th string hb.

So his last 4 years with Oakland he is barely used. The 3 years prior a good portion of that the NFL mvp halfback was relegated to blocking for Bo Jackson and play fullback. This was utterly can't make it up shit that completely baffled the league and with social media today would be almost impossible to even pull off much less attempt.

That's how egregious this vendetta was by Davis. He barely even veiled it and he basically ruined half his damn career. Overrated, are you fucking kidding me?

[mlhouse]

First of all, the Vikings wanted a pass catcher and is the sole reason they drafted Nelson. Marcus Allen retired as the all time leading pass catcher as a rb. Riggs was never a fit. Obviously Allen didn't catch much as USC but it was incredibly obvious what a remarkable athlete be was.

Secondly, man, what a shocking post from you. Typically you know history pretty well. It's stunning you are so far off on this one. Using stats that are 100% explainable as the basis for your absurd point that Marcus Allen was "overrated". Wow.

Marcus Allen had a precipitous drop in production partially because he had a major knee injury one year and mostly because he was the victim of one of the strangest, most bizarre and preposterous situations in NFL history.

What Al Davis did to Marcus Allen over his last 4 or 5 years with Oakland was shameful. Absolutely shameful. Al Davis basically blackballed his own player and forced the Raiders to not use him. How the F do you not remember that? Go watch the NFL life or Sports Century on Allen, it was absolutely fascinating and straight up bizarre the vindictive agenda Davis had. Check out article below and note especially the remarks from Terry Robiskie (and watch NFL episode on Allen, it's very good).

Why the hell do you think he goes to KC and is again a catalyst for their success early 90s when the guy was in his mid 30s? Davis tried to ruin his career and forced him to be a back up the last 3 years in Oakland and he then goes to KC and leads the AFC in TD.

NFL MVP. SB MVP. Fn HOF player who retired all time rb receptions leader and td scorer - "overrated". Sorry, man, but this was a Rooboobretard level post. Good Lord.

Marcus Allen was significantly overrated. He only had four good seasons in the NFL. His other 12 he was a mediocre/average at best running back. After 1985 and his 1,759 yard season he never had another thousand yard season in his career. He never had a 900 yard season. He never had a season in which he had more than 100 attempts and greater than 4.0 yards/carry until the last couple seasons in Kansas City. Whatever "records" he has it is because of his longevity, not because of his great seasons.

He is overrated. He had the great start to his career. He had the Super Bowl hero performance. He was an Oakland Raider. Overrated.

This is what I love about you, these occasional off the reservation rants where your irrational take is destroyed with facts and you simply double down by stomping your feet and coming back with "he is overrated because I said so"!

His last 4 years as a Raider here are his carries: 69, 179, 63 and 67. That's in spite of those years his ypc were 4.2, 3.8, 4.6 and 4.5.
A God damn NFL mvp, enters the season as a 4th string hb one year. That's the kind of shit Davis mandated he actually entered training camp listed as 4th string hb.

So his last 4 years with Oakland he is barely used. The 3 years prior a good portion of that the NFL mvp halfback was relegated to blocking for Bo Jackson and play fullback. This was utterly can't make it up shit that completely baffled the league and with social media today would be almost impossible to even pull off much less attempt.

That's how egregious this vendetta was by Davis. He barely even veiled it and he basically ruined half his damn career. Overrated, are you fucking kidding me?

he is overrated. That does not mean he wasn't good. But he had 4 good years. Then he wasn't any good. After his MVP season in 1985, he followed that up with a 208 - 759 3.6 season in 1986. In 1987 200 - 754 3.8 yards per carry. In 1988 223-831 3.7 y/c. Mediocre. Then four more mediocre/injury seasons with the Raiders and a few mediocre years with the Chiefs.

[Beef Supreme]

A little before my time. What was the ax Al Davis had to grind against Allen all about?

[hategreenticemase]

Marcus Allen was significantly overrated. He only had four good seasons in the NFL. His other 12 he was a mediocre/average at best running back. After 1985 and his 1,759 yard season he never had another thousand yard season in his career. He never had a 900 yard season. He never had a season in which he had more than 100 attempts and greater than 4.0 yards/carry until the last couple seasons in Kansas City. Whatever "records" he has it is because of his longevity, not because of his great seasons.

He is overrated. He had the great start to his career. He had the Super Bowl hero performance. He was an Oakland Raider. Overrated.

This is what I love about you, these occasional off the reservation rants where your irrational take is destroyed with facts and you simply double down by stomping your feet and coming back with "he is overrated because I said so"!

His last 4 years as a Raider here are his carries: 69, 179, 63 and 67. That's in spite of those years his ypc were 4.2, 3.8, 4.6 and 4.5.
A God damn NFL mvp, enters the season as a 4th string hb one year. That's the kind of shit Davis mandated he actually entered training camp listed as 4th string hb.

So his last 4 years with Oakland he is barely used. The 3 years prior a good portion of that the NFL mvp halfback was relegated to blocking for Bo Jackson and play fullback. This was utterly can't make it up shit that completely baffled the league and with social media today would be almost impossible to even pull off much less attempt.

That's how egregious this vendetta was by Davis. He barely even veiled it and he basically ruined half his damn career. Overrated, are you fucking kidding me?

he is overrated. That does not mean he wasn't good. But he had 4 good years. Then he wasn't any good. After his MVP season in 1985, he followed that up with a 208 - 759 3.6 season in 1986. In 1987 200 - 754 3.8 yards per carry. In 1988 223-831 3.7 y/c. Mediocre. Then four more mediocre/injury seasons with the Raiders and a few mediocre years with the Chiefs.

Dude, I love what you bring to the table on a daily basis but man you are a nutbar sometimes.