cunningham wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:25 am
hategreenticemase wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm
mlhouse wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:54 pm
Claim: "Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years."
While this isn't any defense of the Christian Ponder draft pick, a pick I disliked at the time (I would have traded down and preferred Andy Dalton >>> Christian Ponder) claiming this set the franchise back multiple fucking years is a complete falsehood.
In Ponder's rookie season the team was 3-13, but Donovan McNabb was the starter for the first 6 games of the season and the team went 1-5. In the middle sections of the season when Ponder became the rookie starter Adrian Peterson was having nagging injuries and missed several games.
In Ponder's 2nd season the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Of course, this team was built on Adrian Peterson running the ball but Ponder played well at times, including the last game of the season vs. the Packers. WHo knows what woudl have happened if he would have started the encore game in the playoffs against the Packers instead of Joe Webb.
Ponder's 3rd season he only started 9 games due to injury. Peterson only rushed for 1,266 yards (in 14 games) versus 2,097 the year before. But what really killed the team in Leslie Frazier's last season as a head coach was the defense. The offense was in the middle of the pack in points scored (with Ponder and Cassell as QBs), 8th in rushing and even 23rd in passing yards, but our defense was 32nd in points given up. 31st in pass defense. The defense gave up 30 or more points in 8 games.
So, claiming that Ponder set the team back multiple years is completey wrong.
Good Lord. The lengths you will go to to defend a silly take is absurd.
He was a terrible fucking qb, period. In spite of that, somehow, we won 10 games. What do we do with an avg qb? Wasted year. 3 seasons wasted on a bad qb, and a high draft choice gone. Now, we have to spend another 1st rounder in year 4 on a qb.
How you can possibly defend that drafting Ponder wasted several years ia beyond me.
I don’t usually ever want to condone or agree with a troll, but in this case Hate is right. He has nailed this entire thread. Mlhouse and Ash need to seriously let go of their love of Rick Spielman and stop acting like your takes are correct or that you are experts. Your attachment to RS is making any take you make reek of homerism. Ash’s response for quarterbacks and general manager is the same ever year,
“If you want a quarterback tell me who you would draft... now let me write four paragraphs about a guy we won’t take in the draft and somehow connect this all to RS being a genius.”
MLhouse is pretty respected here by Hate, but in this thread Hate has been right. The entire time during Bradford and Cousins, Hate has been consistent. He has written a million threads analyzing our offensive line woes. He has given solutions, and while slamming posters, he has been right. Sadly more right than Rube or Ash.
Mlhouse, don’t let him own you. Ponder sucked. Redeem yourself by giving this thread your take on how you would have handled the quarterback position. You love to defend bad takes by RS as they were “obvious” solutions at the time. You then make excuses for why the moves failed, but Hate owned you because he has been consistent on the offensive line issue all along.
Again, the actual facts speak for themselves. Having the 12th best record over a decade isn't the worst thing in the world and the fact is, the teams with the top quarterbacks were in the top 5-6 positions.
But, the real problem with your statement is "I don't love to defend Rick Spielman's bad takes". Go back to the KFAN archives, if you can, and see that on draft day I preferred Andy Dalton over Christian Ponder. I would have traded down in the first round. I get they were afraid someone would "snipe" Ponder, but then you jsut draft Dalton or Kaepernick. While I think it is defensible to prefer Ponder to Dalton, or Kaepernick for that matter, there is no way that Ponder was more valuable than Dalton PLUS the significant draft value we would have got from trading down.
There is one way to become a decade top 5 team that is a true Super Bowl contender with few exceptions: draft a HOF level quarterback who never gets hurt. Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Drew Brees. Russell Wilson. Aaron Rodgers. Ben Roethlisberger. Eli Manning.
In the past 10 years here are the Super Bowl matchups:
Drew Brees v. Peyton Manning (1)
Aaron Rodgers v. Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning(1) v. Tom Brady (1)
Kaepernick v. Joe Flacco (WHAT???)
Russell Wilson (1) v. Peyton Manning (2)
Russell WIlson(2) v. Tom Brady (2)
Cam Netwon v. Peyton Manning (3)
Matt Ryan v. Tom Brady (3)
Nick Foles v. Tom Brady (4)
Jared Goff v. Tom Brady (5)
Garrafolo v. Mahomes
I think in the last Super Bowl represents the beginning of the changing of the guard in the NFL but in the decade prior to that, the AFC was represented by Tom Brady or Peyton Manning 8 out of 10 years. The 2019 AFC Championship represented breaking a streak of 8 consecutive years the Patriots made the conference championship game.
Dominant quarterbacks dominate the wins.