Monday Night Wars

[Cobey]

How deep are you planning on going cmd?

I'm curious if you plan on tracking this through the "Invasion" or just stop when Vince buys them out.

I didn't see this until just now.

I'm not fully decided on how far I'm going to go. Originally my plan was to go to the end of WCW. However, there are a lot storylines thru the early 2000's that I didn't follow closely, but tuned in occasionally, due to other commitments. I do think I'd like to get in to the late 2000's, though.

The WCW is just trash at this stage (September 1999). Storylines are weak (Sting turned heel, after suddenly being best friends with Hogan; this Sid Vicious shit is dumb leading up to his match with Goldberg at Halloween Havoc; Page and the Jersey Triad; West Texas Rednecks). The separation between the two companies is even bigger when you look at the overall mic skills (I think those are pretty important) of the companies as a whole. Tony Shiavone is no JR, and while I think Heenan is freaking great, he's no Lawler. You can see that WCW isn't even getting pop from the crowds, in comparison to WWE. The venues are smaller. Hell, even the ring is smaller. At the peak of the 83 week run, you could see that the WWE production wasn't as good, and venues felt similar, on the broadcast. Now, WWE is playing to bigger crowds in bigger venues. WCW feels more forced in their "acting", where WWE feels a lot more natural.

I was never a huge Jericho fan, but holy shit was that pop amazing when he finally showed up on Raw. You could even see it in Rock's face.

There's good stuff that was done post WM17. Hollywood heel Rock, the clusterfuck that was the Invasion angle, Brock Lesnars sudden rise, John Cena's early years, Evolution, Edge's rise into a main event status heel, Eddie Guerrero's rise into a main event heel, Bradshaw's turn into JBL...You take the good with the bad, like every wrestling era though. It gets pretty unwatchable after Benoit dies though...they transitioned into a more corporate friendly product after that one and it stayed kinda bland until around WM30

[Hummdrum]

Professional wrestler, “Dr. X” operates an RCA TK-60 Television Camera at the WTCN-TV studio.
Wikipedia says Dr. X (Dick Beyer) was with the AWA from 1966 to 1972. I don't think Ch. 11 had color cameras till 1968 or so. The camera in the photo is a b/w.

[cmd24]

I'm in to October 1999. Gorilla Monsoon just passed away. Heenan didn't have a big eulogy, or anything, but you could see he was struggling while talking about him.

[jffl_commish]

Every now and then some old highlights will pop up. What massive names & personalities they had way back when. Those were truly the days.

[cmd24]

Halloween Havoc 99...Hogan lays down for Sting. This whole angle was shitty, and the lay down thing was just odd. Lot of talk of writer's room/locker room politics, but no clear answer as to what happened.

Vince Russo really helped drive WCW down the toilet.

[Cobey]

Halloween Havoc 99...Hogan lays down for Sting. This whole angle was shitty, and the lay down thing was just odd. Lot of talk of writer's room/locker room politics, but no clear answer as to what happened.

Vince Russo really helped drive WCW down the toilet.

The Vince Russo thing is weird. When he was a behind the scenes guy at WWF, they were doing good shit. Like even 96-97ish, even though they weren't doing the numbers rating-wise, some of the best, most memorable storylines were taking place. Hart v Michaels, Stone Cold's rise, Brian Pillman pulling a gun on TV. I don't know if he didn't have enough creative freedom in WCW or had too much creative freedom in WCW. Either one is certainly plausible.

[cmd24]

Halloween Havoc 99...Hogan lays down for Sting. This whole angle was shitty, and the lay down thing was just odd. Lot of talk of writer's room/locker room politics, but no clear answer as to what happened.

Vince Russo really helped drive WCW down the toilet.

The Vince Russo thing is weird. When he was a behind the scenes guy at WWF, they were doing good shit. Like even 96-97ish, even though they weren't doing the numbers rating-wise, some of the best, most memorable storylines were taking place. Hart v Michaels, Stone Cold's rise, Brian Pillman pulling a gun on TV. I don't know if he didn't have enough creative freedom in WCW or had too much creative freedom in WCW. Either one is certainly plausible.

There seems to be a lot of mixed emotions about Russo, in the wrestling world, from what I've gathered on various podcasts that I've heard. More seen to not think real highly of him. But you're right, he was very much at the heart of WWE's rise back to the top. It's long been said that WCW had shitty ownership at this point in time, but I think you could easily make the argument that they didn't do a thing to help develop young talent. At least not in the way WWE did.

[Cobey]

Halloween Havoc 99...Hogan lays down for Sting. This whole angle was shitty, and the lay down thing was just odd. Lot of talk of writer's room/locker room politics, but no clear answer as to what happened.

Vince Russo really helped drive WCW down the toilet.

The Vince Russo thing is weird. When he was a behind the scenes guy at WWF, they were doing good shit. Like even 96-97ish, even though they weren't doing the numbers rating-wise, some of the best, most memorable storylines were taking place. Hart v Michaels, Stone Cold's rise, Brian Pillman pulling a gun on TV. I don't know if he didn't have enough creative freedom in WCW or had too much creative freedom in WCW. Either one is certainly plausible.

There seems to be a lot of mixed emotions about Russo, in the wrestling world, from what I've gathered on various podcasts that I've heard. More seen to not think real highly of him. But you're right, he was very much at the heart of WWE's rise back to the top. It's long been said that WCW had shitty ownership at this point in time, but I think you could easily make the argument that they didn't do a thing to help develop young talent. At least not in the way WWE did.

In a way. The Time Warner/AOL merger did them no favors either though. The big corporate umbrellas wanted instant returns rather than a long term investment.

[cmd24]

Kurt Angle has arrived! I forgot just how good this guy was as a heel.

[j2j]

I've been watching all the NXTs since the beginning. Currently in mid-2016 with Finn Balor as champ. Finn has been my favorite for a couple years now.

Despite being a HUGE wrestling fan as a kid, I didnt watch wrestling from like 2004-2018. I'd tune in once and awhile, knew who the big nes were, but was barely a casual. So I missed most of Cena, Edge, and Orton has main event stars.

I think I'm going to go back to the beginning and start over. Maybe from the first Monday Night Raw in 1993. I'll fast forward through the shit, and just have it on in the background while I pretend to work. It'll take me years, but what else am I going to do with my life?

[cmd24]

Stephanie and Test are getting married! I've always thought that Steph was hot, but man you could tell she was raw onscreen early on. Seems like she got better over time, if memory serves.

Also, Jarrett has arrived in the WCW, and Russo is starting to have a presence. I've never liked Jarrett.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

Kurt Angle has arrived! I forgot just how good this guy was as a heel.

Kurt Angle and Mick Foley are the most underrated wrestlers/personalities of the last 25 years of professional wrestling. Both just outstanding and never get in the conversation about all time greats. I mean I wouldn’t have them ahead of Austin, Rock, Hogan, Flair, and a few others like Taker and Shawn Michaels, but damn they’re in my top 10.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

I've been watching all the NXTs since the beginning. Currently in mid-2016 with Finn Balor as champ. Finn has been my favorite for a couple years now.

Despite being a HUGE wrestling fan as a kid, I didnt watch wrestling from like 2004-2018. I'd tune in once and awhile, knew who the big nes were, but was barely a casual. So I missed most of Cena, Edge, and Orton has main event stars.

I think I'm going to go back to the beginning and start over. Maybe from the first Monday Night Raw in 1993. I'll fast forward through the shit, and just have it on in the background while I pretend to work. It'll take me years, but what else am I going to do with my life?

It would definitely be interesting to start with the “New Generation” era. Underrated from a pure wrestling standpoint, but mostly awful creative and booking.

[j2j]

I've been watching all the NXTs since the beginning. Currently in mid-2016 with Finn Balor as champ. Finn has been my favorite for a couple years now.

Despite being a HUGE wrestling fan as a kid, I didnt watch wrestling from like 2004-2018. I'd tune in once and awhile, knew who the big nes were, but was barely a casual. So I missed most of Cena, Edge, and Orton has main event stars.

I think I'm going to go back to the beginning and start over. Maybe from the first Monday Night Raw in 1993. I'll fast forward through the shit, and just have it on in the background while I pretend to work. It'll take me years, but what else am I going to do with my life?

It would definitely be interesting to start with the “New Generation” era. Underrated from a pure wrestling standpoint, but mostly awful creative and booking.

The part that sucks is the debut of the Undertaker and Ric Flair were prior to Raw, but digging through Superstars is brutal. Same with the break up of the Hart Foundation/Rockers and the rise of Bret and Shawn.

[cmd24]

I wasn't much of a Jericho fan back then, but I'm really digging his work, now that I go back and watch. He's such a good heel, but gets the reaction of a face.

Also, this David Flair being crazy angle is really terrible.

[Cobey]

I wasn't much of a Jericho fan back then, but I'm really digging his work, now that I go back and watch. He's such a good heel, but gets the reaction of a face.

Also, this David Flair being crazy angle is really terrible.

Jericho is probably my favorite character of all time. His work after the Attitude era really came a long way.

[cmd24]

I wasn't much of a Jericho fan back then, but I'm really digging his work, now that I go back and watch. He's such a good heel, but gets the reaction of a face.

Also, this David Flair being crazy angle is really terrible.

Jericho is probably my favorite character of all time. His work after the Attitude era really came a long way.

I under appreciated what Jericho was doing. I love his podcast, too. He has/had such a grasp on the business, too. The guy knows what it takes to be successful, that's for sure.

[Cobey]

I wasn't much of a Jericho fan back then, but I'm really digging his work, now that I go back and watch. He's such a good heel, but gets the reaction of a face.

Also, this David Flair being crazy angle is really terrible.

Jericho is probably my favorite character of all time. His work after the Attitude era really came a long way.

I under appreciated what Jericho was doing. I love his podcast, too. He has/had such a grasp on the business, too. The guy knows what it takes to be successful, that's for sure.

The dude could put on a great match with anybody too. If you're ever in the mood for a masterclass in "work rate" professional wrestling, check out Jericho v HBK at WrestleMania 19.

[cmd24]

WCW trying to capitalize on the boy band craze. And in the process, they're using three borderline performers that can't even come close to making it look real. Sad, really.

[cmd24]

Triple H v. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000 is a freaking classic. So many awesome bumps in that match.

I read an interview somewhere that Triple H said his family was legit worried about him after that match because he was bleeding so much, and both guys needed quite a bit of help backstage afterwards.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

Triple H v. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000 is a freaking classic. So many awesome bumps in that match.

I read an interview somewhere that Triple H said his family was legit worried about him after that match because he was bleeding so much, and both guys needed quite a bit of help backstage afterwards.

A rare classic wrestling match during the Attitude Era. Fantastic match. Triple H has mentioned that was the match where he gained the fans respect from a toughness standpoint. You couldn’t think of him as soft after watching that. And as much as I despise some of his behind the scenes political bs and not putting guys over, Triple H could be a great performer.

[cmd24]

The Radicalz have arrived in the WWE. Starting to see the rise of the Hardy Boyz, too. This era may be one of the greatest for tag team action, when you consider the Hardy's, Edge and Christian, and the Dudleys, and they matches they all put together.

Also, Teri is revealing more and more underboob.

[cmd24]

TLC 1 is on my TV right now...WM from 2000.

[cmd24]

Coming up on King of The Ring 2000. Trish Stratus and Lita are starting to heat up their feud, as Lita recently hooked up with the Hardy Boyz. Jesus, did those two gals take some major bumps. No wonder they're so highly regarded in the industry.

WCW Bash at The Beach is coming up in a few shows, as well. This is the match where Jarrett laid down for Hogan, and Hogan called Russo out on his bullshit. The storylines are really hard to watch right now, in the WCW. Cross between batshit crazy and making no sense. Also, Scott Steiner is a lot better as a badass face, than as a heel or a "nice" face. He's running with Nash right now, and he's been fun to watch.

[cmd24]

Bash at the Beach, 2000. Jarrett just laid down for Hogan, and Russo going off on Hogan right now.

Such an interesting storyline behind this, and I don't know if we'll ever know the truth. There's a ton of stories out there about this.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

Bash at the Beach, 2000. Jarrett just laid down for Hogan, and Russo going off on Hogan right now.

Such an interesting storyline behind this, and I don't know if we'll ever know the truth. There's a ton of stories out there about this.

Eric Bischoff swears up and down that it wasn’t a work. That Hogan actually went to court over it. Who knows.

[cmd24]

Bash at the Beach, 2000. Jarrett just laid down for Hogan, and Russo going off on Hogan right now.

Such an interesting storyline behind this, and I don't know if we'll ever know the truth. There's a ton of stories out there about this.

Eric Bischoff swears up and down that it wasn’t a work. That Hogan actually went to court over it. Who knows.

The last story I read on it was that it was basically scripted up to the point that Russo came out later and started trashing on Hogan. I think that's when the court case came about. Sounded like he went after Russo for libel or slander, or something to that effect.

[cmd24]

Getting back on track after the move to Peacock. I'm at November of 2000. WCW has gotten pretty shitty. WWE has now introduced the wrestler that will eventually become R-Truth. They've got him in a rap gimmick with Road Dogg. Kinda dumb, to be honest. Some good story lines going on in WWE, though, with Austin being back, Rikishi heal turn, Angle being the champ, etc.

[RubeTube]

Getting back on track after the move to Peacock. I'm at November of 2000. WCW has gotten pretty shitty. WWE has now introduced the wrestler that will eventually become R-Truth. They've got him in a rap gimmick with Road Dogg. Kinda dumb, to be honest. Some good story lines going on in WWE, though, with Austin being back, Rikishi heal turn, Angle being the champ, etc.

This is around the time I completely quit watching. I think around fall of 1999 was around the end for me.

[Tommy_Hawk]

I watched the '97 Royal Rumble match last week on YouTube and holy shit there was some nostalgia and star power in that ring. A young Stone Cold wins it, but holy shit there were dudes in that match. Would recommend.