Wolves 3-19 when out rebounded

[Beef Supreme]

Outshot again. Lost again.

and outrebounded again by 12.

Right. But what comes first, the shot or the rebound?



If we hit more shots, we wouldn’t get outrebounded so badly.

If we forced them to miss more shots, we’d get more rebounds.

[somuchyummy]

Outshot again. Lost again.

and outrebounded again by 12.

Right. But what comes first, the shot or the rebound?



If we hit more shots, we wouldn’t get outrebounded so badly.

If we forced them to miss more shots, we’d get more rebounds.

but it certainly doesn't help when two of our top three (per 36) rebounders, who also happen to be #1 and #2 on the team in FG% - vonleh and bell - get zero minutes in the game. we've cranked up over 90 three point shots in the last two games - shots that our team doesn't make - at a 29% clip. if we played vonleh and bell at all, and cut back our threes, our FG percentage AND rebounding numbers would rise. that's their game.

[Beef Supreme]

and outrebounded again by 12.

Right. But what comes first, the shot or the rebound?



If we hit more shots, we wouldn’t get outrebounded so badly.

If we forced them to miss more shots, we’d get more rebounds.

but it certainly doesn't help when two of our top three (per 36) rebounders, who also happen to be #1 and #2 on the team in FG% - vonleh and bell - get zero minutes in the game. we've cranked up over 90 three point shots in the last two games - shots that our team doesn't make - at a 29% clip. if we played vonleh and bell at all, and cut back our threes, our FG percentage AND rebounding numbers would rise. that's their game.

I don’t know. Maybe. I don’t think it would matter much. Vonleh and Bell are marginal talents. So are most of the guys we are playing. So it would probably be a wash.

We’d make a few more shots, but I’m not sure our eFG% would love all that much.


Clearly, they want to run a 3pt-shooting system. So run the system. Install it. And gradually turn the roster over with players that can make it work (better shooters). Doing something else in the meantime to chase a few more pointless wins would be silly, IMHO.

[somuchyummy]

IMHO losing breeds more losing. i'd chase the meaningless wins. who are we tanking for? it isn't that kind of draft. right now we're chasing meaningless losses. if we're turning over the roster, then why are we installing a system using players who won't be here once it's installed? like i said, losing breeds losing - and i think some of our main guys - KAT and wigs, in particular - are just used to it by now. a combined 9 years of losing for those two - with just one year between them when we won. what do they expect when they step on the court?

[Beef Supreme]

IMHO losing breeds more losing. i'd chase the meaningless wins. who are we tanking for? it isn't that kind of draft. right now we're chasing meaningless losses. if we're turning over the roster, then why are we installing a system using players who won't be here once it's installed? like i said, losing breeds losing - and i think some of our main guys - KAT and wigs, in particular - are just used to it by now. a combined 9 years of losing for those two - with just one year between them when we won. what do they expect when they step on the court?

How many more wins do you think we get with Vonleh and Bell? Do they get us to 40?

I mean, in terms of “losing breeding losing,” is 53 losses any different from 48 losses?

I don’t understand your question about installing players. Who are we supposed to use? We have who he have and it will take time to get the guys we need. Play who we have. Even if it’s a guy who won’t be here long. If that guy is successful, we can say “we need a guy like X.”

I really don’t think Vonleh and Bell change much of anything. They aren’t that good. They may lead us to a couple more wins. But they might not. It might be the same. Regardless, we aren’t getting to the playoffs with them playing major minutes, so if they’re not the vision... why play them? It seems like a desperate attempt to grasp at straws. “If we only played Vonleh and Bell more,” said no winning team ever.

[somuchyummy]

here are a couple thoughts about what you've said.

i do think some extra wins matter - especially if it gets you into the playoffs. we have a playoff team in the west this year, but have chosen to not play up to our potential for reasons of development, system, whatever. i do think this wears on the players - especially someone like KAT - who sees his playoff appearances as extremely paltry considering his standing in the league and what he's accomplished individually so far. i think it leads to dissatisfaction and looking for a way out. if people want to keep KAT on the team, then i think playoff games matter.

does playing vonleh and bell get you a winning team? i think if they are used right, then yeah? basketball is such a game of matchups - yet we don't play that angle so much. the other night jerami grant absolutely went off on us in the first half - and we did nothing rosterwise to counter it. if we could have shut him down sooner, i think it's a closer game, likely winnable. could vonleh have helped? yes, i think so. he outweighs grant by about 50 pounds - plant him on the low block and feed him. he's our best percentage shooter and works pretty well underneath like that. it's something that would have either made grant have to work like hell to defend - or the nuggets would have countered our move by putting plumlee in the game. either way, we've impacted grant's effectiveness. anyway, things like that. seems like some lesser opponent is always having a career night against us - or a really good game in grant's case - and we sort of just sit there and watch them do it. that's when using your bench smartly can get you more wins.

finally, you say getting a few more wins is meaningless - but getting a few more losses this year is meaningless as well. who exactly would we be tanking for? it's not that kind of draft. even the first three picks get shuffled around because there's nothing clear about it at this point. complete crapshoot this year. i'd rather work on winning a few more games than losing a few more so we can select unknown quantity X.

[Thrillkill]

Outshot again. Lost again.

and outrebounded again by 12.

Right. But what comes first, the shot or the rebound?



If we hit more shots, we wouldn’t get outrebounded so badly.

If we forced them to miss more shots, we’d get more rebounds.

What is your fucking obsession with claiming shooting matters more so rebounding doesn't. Defense either I suppose. Have you ever hear of these things called possessions? It's where you have the ball and can shoot. You know, that thing you think is 98% of basketball? How do you get an extra possession with a shot? How? You can get one with a rebound. You can save one with a defensive rebound. You can get one with a steal.

You seem to think they are playing horse out there. And now we are 3-20? Just a coincidence though. In the last 13 years you know how many games we have won when outrebounded by 10? In 13 years? 14. Coincidence I guess.

[thinktank]

Thrillkill reminds me of any Tim and Eric skit. The way the tone is always over the top.

Despite thrillkill’s rantings, rebounding and field goal efficiency are indeed related.

Nevertheless, I would argue our specific rebounding issue is opponent offensive rebounds. We’re in the bottom 1/3 of the league there, however you look at it.

[Thrillkill]

Thrillkill reminds me of any Tim and Eric skit. The way the tone is always over the top.

Despite thrillkill’s rantings, rebounding and field goal efficiency are indeed related.

Nevertheless, I would argue our specific rebounding issue is opponent offensive rebounds. We’re in the bottom 1/3 of the league there, however you look at it.

Oh, they are related in that you can't get a rebound unless there's a miss. Thanks for that half wit.

"related" everyone. Care to elaborate? Oh, you did that next and correctly. Just had to be a **** first though. Shocker.