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***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Until this moron stops hucking up threes constantly, this bandwagon needs to have its tires slashed.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
He's terrible.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Think tank showing his rookie nba mind.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Is this bandwagon driving Graham to the bench, playing only in emergencies?
Let's get Tropical
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
The wheels fell off the wagon after a couple promising games.
If Layman was healthy would we see Graham? I'd hope not.
If Layman was healthy would we see Graham? I'd hope not.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Any seats available?
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Buy low. Very low.
Last edited by thinktank on Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Rubes think he's a great defender because the shills constantly make excuses for why he's on the floor. Have to suck up to the idiot.NotRasho wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:21 pm People only think his defense is good because they compare it to his offense, but its a shit sandwich either way. He fouls a lot and they tend to be shooting, including a bunch of dumb fouls on 3s. He doesnt actually stop anybody, hes never been a problem for an offensive player to deal with.
I have no idea how he is getting minutes on this team let alone starting. Just cut him, we have plenty of better options.
He's a solid defender and solid rebounder that's it. Name me one team in history where that gets you a starting spot and four 3 attempts a game at 20%. There's one. The one run by an idiot at his computer that apparently can't count to 20%.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
His 2K20 rating is a 71. Jeff Teague is an 80. That should provide some perspective.
"Dude, my IQ and education level is a 1,000 times more than yours. I whip everyone's ass here and they cannot hold a candle to me." mlhouse
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Jeff Teague's real life rating is like a 62.
"Come up off your smooth talk player, this raspy. You stuck on Morse code player, this ASCII."
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
It’s not his fault he’s starting. He wouldn’t be starting for any other Team in the NBA and he shouldn’t be starting here, but it’s what Rosas and Ryan want.NotRasho wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:31 pm Would Graham even be in the NBA if it wasnt for the wolves?
Hes a 4th year player with per 36 averages of 9.4/4.8/1.8 on .383/.331/.737 shooting.
He has a career TS% of .498, negative VORP, negative BPM, PER of 7.7...
And those are his CAREER numbers, this year hes even worse than that!
My god, why would somebody start a bandwagon for such a worthless D-league bum? Cut him asap.
Moving Covington to the 3 and KBD to the 4 changes nothing in practice on the current offense and may make them better defensively, but I believe for sure better on Offense.
We’ve seen enough to know what is shit.....this is shit. Fix it!!!
GO WOLVES!!
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
This bandwagon is careening toward the ditch at a rapid pace!
I would love for Graham to turn it around. I have no doubt he was awesome in training camp, because he was by all accounts. But we're almost a quarter of the way through the season. We are far past due for some better results at this point.
I would love for Graham to turn it around. I have no doubt he was awesome in training camp, because he was by all accounts. But we're almost a quarter of the way through the season. We are far past due for some better results at this point.
"Come up off your smooth talk player, this raspy. You stuck on Morse code player, this ASCII."
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
First couple games were nice, was hoping we stumbled on something. I like to be hopeful. 6 days later apparently it was evident that it was short lived.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
In 3 of the 4 games before I posted that he went 4/9, 4/7, and 6/11, and seemed to be playing passable defense. I'd hoped it was a sign of things to come. Ended up being the exception, not the rule.NotRasho wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:32 pmPost was on Nov 11, we were already 10 games into the regular season plus preseason games.
His first game he was 4-13, second 4-8, and then he went 3-16 his next 3 games. So after 5 games he was shooting 11-37 for 31 points, with about 3 rebounds and an assist a game.
Where were the couple of nice games you refer to?
How about the previous 3 years of being a piece of trash? That didnt factor in?
I love watching you get into it with the likes of Sergeant Rubetube and thrillkill...you always run from me.
Run from you? What's there to run from. You want to scream, shout, and attack on a message board about the Timberwolves. I typically ignore you and thrill when you go spaz mode. Want to talk basketball, sure. You're mostly a good basketball. Want to act like a message board bad ass and flip out? Nah, I'll pass. What's there to gain from it?
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Alright, feel free to ask a question that you want my take on that I haven't covered and you feel you're owed an explanation on. I'll do my best. Heads up, I'm about to get in my vehicle and go scout a game, so my reply might come later tonight.NotRasho wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:52 pmYou make bullshit statements and talk down to people then when pressed you refuse to answer as if the questions arent valid. YOU RUN.j2j wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:41 pm In 3 of the 4 games before I posted that he went 4/9, 4/7, and 6/11, and seemed to be playing passable defense. I'd hoped it was a sign of things to come. Ended up being the exception, not the rule.
Run from you? What's there to run from. You want to scream, shout, and attack on a message board about the Timberwolves. I typically ignore you and thrill when you go spaz mode. Want to talk basketball, sure. You're mostly a good basketball. Want to act like a message board bad ass and flip out? Nah, I'll pass. What's there to gain from it?
If you notice my questions come first, calling you out only comes after you earn it with your evasion.
You have made many claims about "how the timberwolves want to play" but when asked to extrapolate intricacies you flee. You make claims about what personnel we have on the floor and why we need them on the floor, when pressed to explain you flee.
I pay attention, this isnt exclusive to wolves chat, its simply your style. It convinces some people that you know what you are talking about, you just have to make sure you avoid people like me who can actually call you out.
Not exclusive to WolvesChat, where else have you noticed my style? I'll take the paying attention as a compliment. Didn't know my posts were so important to you. Thanks.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
I haven't posted in PoliSpaz in months, but no, I don't recall. I recall ForCaleb freaking out if I posted from a source he didn't like, or he spazzed out even more if I used a source he did like. Sometimes sharing tweets or articles is just because it's interesting. Not sure what that has to do with the Wolves though.NotRasho wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:04 pmHey, if you actually directly answered questions and held a basketball conversation I would rescind my claims of cowardice and running. I will believe it when I see it.j2j wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:56 pm
Alright, feel free to ask a question that you want my take on that I haven't covered and you feel you're owed an explanation on. I'll do my best. Heads up, I'm about to get in my vehicle and go scout a game, so my reply might come later tonight.
Not exclusive to WolvesChat, where else have you noticed my style? I'll take the paying attention as a compliment. Didn't know my posts were so important to you. Thanks.
Dont you remember me calling you twitterbot for your "contributions" to polichat? You know, where you just present other peoples thoughts and opinions but bring nothing yourself? Then when asked to extrapolate on the bullshit propaganda you post you would simply claim its somebody elses opinion?
I pay attention to everything, silly, you arent special. Im pretty strong with pattern recognition.
But none of your post there seems like a question in which you feel you're owed an explanation of my basketball take on. I'm giving you a chance here. Ask away, I have no problem talking basketball. You'll notice when I stop responding to you and thrill it's when you go full spaz mode. Like WolvesChat is some battleground and you must go to war. Act like an adult and we can chat. Thats how it's always been. Deal? There's absolutely no value in screeching on a message board.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
NotRasho wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:31 pmDont worry, I havent posted there in over a year =(j2j wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:16 pm I haven't posted in PoliSpaz in months, but no, I don't recall. I recall ForCaleb freaking out if I posted from a source he didn't like, or he spazzed out even more if I used a source he did like. Sometimes sharing tweets or articles is just because it's interesting. Not sure what that has to do with the Wolves though.
But none of your post there seems like a question in which you feel you're owed an explanation of my basketball take on. I'm giving you a chance here. Ask away, I have no problem talking basketball. You'll notice when I stop responding to you and thrill it's when you go full spaz mode. Like WolvesChat is some battleground and you must go to war. Act like an adult and we can chat. Thats how it's always been. Deal? There's absolutely no value in screeching on a message board.
I disagree with your assessment. I believe I have asked you questions sans any screeching only to have it avoided. This acting as if I just went off the rails being the reason for your avoidance is bullshit, and I didnt react to you negatively in any way until you pulled that. I remember asking you about golden state and Houston, Mcgee/Capella etc, and all you responded with was a strawman about my beliefs rather than any attempt at an answer. Then you went into run and hide mode.
Now maybe run and hide mode to you is seen as "avoid screeching mode", but thats something that could be cleared up and we could find out which came first.
That was your quote, in the middle of one of your rants. And I stated they're not running this offense, nor even the same offense as each other. So it was a flawed argument to begin with, but let's break it down.asking how GS and Hou manage to run this offense
GSW(One of, if not the, best ball movement and passing offenses in the league(history?).
Your premise was that Golden State functioned with McGee. I responded with he played like 9mins a game. Warriors best lineups were the Death Lineup(Green, Barnes, Iggy, Klay, and Curry) and Hampton 5(replace Barnes with Durant). Obviously having 2 or 3 of the greatest shooters of all time is a major reason for their run, but my argument is and always has been that it's not just about shooting. There are posters here obsessed with how many 3s we shoot and think that's the only part worth analyzing. If so, why couldn't Mark Jackson get it done when he was the coach? Because he tried to force Curry to be a traditional PG, played iso, and pounded the ball. To me that's not "modern basketball". Modern is 5 guys on the floor that are as complete as possible; they can handle, pass, shoot, move without the ball, and defend multiple positions thus switch. Golden State ran very little pick and roll, more pop when they did, and I believe they were actually one of the better postup teams in the league, but those postups weren't for traditional drop step or bullyball from a post, but in actuality to pass out to moving shooters. Their movement was great. Lot of read and react type concepts... "If this then that" type of thing. The ball didn't stick, very little dribbling, team basketball.
Houston
Very ISO heavy, obviously because of Harden. They dribble the most, or towards the top, with much less passing. Lot of their shots ended in assists, at least for non-Harden players because he pounded the ball until he had something or created something for someone else. Some of this I feel like I typed in that last exchange, but the bulk of their offense is:
- Harden in a 5-Out with 4 shooters
- Harden with 4 shooters and a screener to roll(Capela)
- Harden with 4 shooters and a big in the dunker spot
Along with a lot of screens for Harden from whoever is being guarded by the weakest defender to force the switch so Harden can iso.
Either way, all of it has been predicated on Harden doing all the work with the basketball in his hands. I've heard they're a little different with Westbrook this year, but I havent watched them yet, so not sure.
So you have one team where a lot of guys touching the ball in a possession and another team where 1 guy does most of the work.
Wolves
Our best player is a 7footer who can shoot the shit out of it, but he's not a Harden so we're not going to run a ton of iso for him. We also don't have the shooters to run through screens like Golden State.
When I watch the Wolves I see a lot of DHO, pistol, BYU, weave, and some high PnP. I believe the argument was why can't a nonshooter like Vonleh or Bell play the 4. And again, my argument has always been it's not just about shooting, but the other things that make a complete player; handle, passing, slashing, cutting, driving, and switching on defense. The idea behind the Wolves offense has been to use the above mentioned actions to create gaps or lanes to cut or drive. Wolves want to get to the rim as well as shoot 3s. I don't see Vonleh, Bell, or Gorgui as guys who can cut, penetrate, or handle the basketball as well as other options. Seems the team agrees with that. Which I know some here hate that.
What you call "run and hide" is me finding no value in conversing with people who want to Screech, attack, throw out homophobic insults, or treat this place like it's some kind of battleground. Hell, there are people that flat out whine and cry that other people post simply because they have a different opinion, as of the place would be better if the other person didn't exist. Just silly. Multiple times when we've had this conversation you've made statements similar to, "go ahead and post so I can tear it apart and expose you"... Why should I bother when you're coming at it from that standpoint? Waste of my time. If you want to have honest conversations, I respond to those.
So go ahead.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Couple things I missed that came to mind while driving.
Houston built strictly on analytics, which I see as different than "modern" in a way. Modern I see as positionless, off ball movement, more passing. Houston's focus is 3s and layups obviously. Golden State's focus is more just ball and player movement to get whatever open shots.
Houston built strictly on analytics, which I see as different than "modern" in a way. Modern I see as positionless, off ball movement, more passing. Houston's focus is 3s and layups obviously. Golden State's focus is more just ball and player movement to get whatever open shots.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Dave Benz said something that floored me last game. He said any offense you get from Graham is a bonus. Thinking like this is not only stupid, it is antithetical to the game of basketball. You need to hold your own on both sides of the floor. Graham is not a 3 and D guy. Whatever he was last season, he is not this season. Graham is the guy who ensures KAT is doubled in the post and someone is always watching for him at the top of the key. Graham is the guy who always ensures the lane is congested for Wiggins. Graham is no Roco on defense, but he is above average. Graham should be second unit and should stick to drive and kick on offense. Okogie is more consistent on both sides of the ball and should be starting.
Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
11 for 52 from 3, 42 for 125 from the field. He is 18 of 22 from the ft line which tells you he doesn’t draw a lot of shooting fouls. 6.3 pts, 3.9 rebounds, and 1.2 assists per game. If that isn’t enough to get you benched, please tell me what is?
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
You can argue all you want but it won’t change the reality that you’re still wrong on both counts. Of course it went over your head that this thread was intended to be a joke, and Bell sucks donkey dong—that’s why he can’t get his ass off the bench.NotRasho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:18 pmFirst, there is no statistical measure which says Graham is a better NBA player than Bell, and its not even close. Bell has been a plus player on championship teams, graham has been a negative bum player on bad east teams.
The notion of a Graham bandwagon IS hilarious, thats why I wasnt surprised in any way to see you were the idiot who started it. Do you really think anybody believes you made this as a joke? You were feeling good about him and made the thread, why deny it and say it was a joke?
Pathetic as always.
Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Jordan bell needs to get healthy before he tries to get into games. He came to camp with a shoulder injury and hasn’t been quite right since. From the small sample size I say Gorgui and Vonleh are both better, but I allow for the possibility that when Bell is healed he can contribute.NotRasho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:44 pmFeel free to click on the bbref link in the reply to j2j to see the comparison of Bell/trashveon.
He cant get off the bench because they are trying to run some idiotic scheme rather than win games.
Im not worried, Bell will get his time and Graham will find his way to the end of the bench. By the end of the year I will be back here laughing at you AGAIN, saying "Rasho is ALWAYS right".
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
I’ll be sure to add your post to this list!:
“Wolves should’ve traded Wiggins to the Bulls instead of LaVine.” —Always Wrong Rasho
“Klay Thompson needs to shoot less threes.” —Always Wrong Rasho
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Embiid STILL only plays 60 to 65 games a year, max. His output is declining already. I don’t regret any trepidation I had about drafting Embiid due to his injury history. Feel free to bump any post I made.
Meanwhile, you wanted to keep LaVine over Wiggins.
You don’t understand a joke thread. You’re angry Bell sucks. And nobody cares about what you think or wants to talk to you.
Meanwhile, you wanted to keep LaVine over Wiggins.
You don’t understand a joke thread. You’re angry Bell sucks. And nobody cares about what you think or wants to talk to you.
Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
I will say it again, Bell does not seem 100% yet. When he is given minutes he doesn’t look right in shot or box out. He will get opportunities with injuries and back to backs, but he needs to get healthy first. KBD has emerged as a solid backup PF and Layman will need minutes when he gets back. Vonleh and Bell will be competing for a spot in the rotation moving forward. To say Bell is good or bad is premature and speculative. We need to see how he can contribute to the offensive and defensive schemes when he is healthy.NotRasho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:09 pmI agree he needs to get fully healthy and will take some time to get into the flow once he starts getting time. Gorgui and Vonleh are different, Gorgui is a traditional 5 and Vonleh is a modern 5, whereas Bell is a modern 4 who can guard the perimeter, guard the post, contain PnR, and can switch 3-4-5.Winforlose2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:47 pm Jordan bell needs to get healthy before he tries to get into games. He came to camp with a shoulder injury and hasn’t been quite right since. From the small sample size I say Gorgui and Vonleh are both better, but I allow for the possibility that when Bell is healed he can contribute.
You dont want Gorgui or Vonleh having to guard 3's on the wing after a switch, you dont sweat it at all if Bell does it. Hes also the best lob target, rim runner, and finisher off the baseline we have. Oh hes also the best shot blocker on the team with a 5.4 career blk%, 50% better than the next closest guys Dieng (3.6) and Towns (3.7). He also has a 14.5% career assist rate, compare that to Graham (7), Covington (8.1), Wiggins (10.2), Layman (5.8%), Okogie (7.7), Towns (13.5), Dieng (9.3).
Playing trashveon and giving minutes to people like kelan martin rather than getting Bell adjusted is criminally stupid.
Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
Please help me out. I have never seen him play before this season (when he had been less than 100% healthy.) I just looked up his career stats and he has 0 (literally 0) made 3s on 9’attempts in his career. His field goal percentage is decent, but he is averaging around 4 points per game. Free throws at 65%, rebounds at 3.2 and 1.4 ast. I know he has been minute restricted, but I am just not seeing anything to justify your faith. Were his G league stats out of this world? I am not saying he isn’t good, I am saying I literally no nothing about him except what I have heard, seen this season, and seen on paper.NotRasho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:32 pmMaybe hes not fully healthy but hes not on the injury llist, find him minutes. I know he will get an opportunity eventually, I just hate this wasted time in doing what I think will be obvious in retrospect. I agree layman and kbd should get minutes, mostly at the 3. Covington is a 3, wiggins/okogie/culver are 2s. Layman is a pure 3 imo, and kbd is more of a tweener but could pass as our stopgap stretch 4 off the bench. I think you start bell since he wont soak up shots (except dunks) from towns and wiggins while bringing better rim protection and rebounding. I still play kbd and layman, I like them both as role players. Vonleh has been better than I expected, but like I said before I see him as a center who can't guard 3s on the perimeter and is a potential defensive liability at the 4. He also doesn't have the upside of bell, Vonleh been around a long time now. We have 2 years of well above average overall play, with clear strengths that carried over from college to the NBA that we really could use to judge him on. You don't play him off the bench with a bunch of guys who can't create anything, hes a leech like capela, he will just live off the scraps of wiggins and towns gravity well complimenting them and not taking the ball out of their hands. I've been the #1 bell fan since Oregon, wanted to draft him and us making that horseshit butler trade and then the bulls trading their 2nd to gs made that night extra shitty. I was pumped when we signed him and have a lot of faith in him as a potential piece going forward. I just want him to get a chance.Winforlose2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:27 pmI will say it again, Bell does not seem 100% yet. When he is given minutes he doesn’t look right in shot or box out. He will get opportunities with injuries and back to backs, but he needs to get healthy first. KBD has emerged as a solid backup PF and Layman will need minutes when he gets back. Vonleh and Bell will be competing for a spot in the rotation moving forward. To say Bell is good or bad is premature and speculative. We need to see how he can contribute to the offensive and defensive schemes when he is healthy.NotRasho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:09 pm
I agree he needs to get fully healthy and will take some time to get into the flow once he starts getting time. Gorgui and Vonleh are different, Gorgui is a traditional 5 and Vonleh is a modern 5, whereas Bell is a modern 4 who can guard the perimeter, guard the post, contain PnR, and can switch 3-4-5.
You dont want Gorgui or Vonleh having to guard 3's on the wing after a switch, you dont sweat it at all if Bell does it. Hes also the best lob target, rim runner, and finisher off the baseline we have. Oh hes also the best shot blocker on the team with a 5.4 career blk%, 50% better than the next closest guys Dieng (3.6) and Towns (3.7). He also has a 14.5% career assist rate, compare that to Graham (7), Covington (8.1), Wiggins (10.2), Layman (5.8%), Okogie (7.7), Towns (13.5), Dieng (9.3).
Playing trashveon and giving minutes to people like kelan martin rather than getting Bell adjusted is criminally stupid.
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Re: ***Official Treveon Graham Bandwagon Thread***
This is the end
My only friend, the end
My only friend, the end