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KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
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Dude
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Dude »

silverjoel wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:25 pm

Can people imagine if Cousins' numbers and Keenum's number were flipped? People would be ripping the talent on the team even more then they already are.
Why do you assume that? Does it make yourself feel better to tell yourself stories?
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

silverjoel wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:25 pm The 2018 Vikings had 20 turnovers, 17 by Cousins and 3 by others (Cook and Thielen). Of those 17 by Cousins, the opposing team scored 55 points. Of those 3 by other, opposing teams scored 7 points.

The 2017 Vikings had 14 turnovers, 8 by Keenum and 6 by others. Of those 8 by Keenum, opposing teams scored 30 points. Of those 6 by others, opponents scored 25 points.

Can people imagine if Cousins' numbers and Keenum's number were flipped? People would be ripping the talent on the team even more then they already are.
I can imagine. They'd be saying to themselves "Cousins was responsible for 8 more TD's than Keenum, so that extra 1.5 ppg that turnovers led to, yeah, not exactly holding the weight that Silverdrool says it does".
Dude
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Dude »

cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:19 pm Probably because that is just another one of your names here. Except that bit has some credibility left unlike these two you use.
:lol:

Yes. I have several usernames. Everyone here is my creation. It's impossible that anyone could disagree with you, so it must be just one person trying to fuck with you.

Logical.
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Dude wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:38 pm
cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:19 pm Probably because that is just another one of your names here. Except that bit has some credibility left unlike these two you use.
:lol:

Yes. I have several usernames. Everyone here is my creation. It's impossible that anyone could disagree with you, so it must be just one person trying to fuck with you.

Logical.
He can't understand it unless it has one variable.
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Dude wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:38 pm
cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 2:19 pm Probably because that is just another one of your names here. Except that bit has some credibility left unlike these two you use.
:lol:

Yes. I have several usernames. Everyone here is my creation. It's impossible that anyone could disagree with you, so it must be just one person trying to fuck with you.

Logical.
Or syllable.
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cunningham
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by cunningham »

So Dude wrote:
With Keenum:
The Vikings finished #1 overall in ypg defensively in 2017. (regressed in 2018)
The Vikings finished #7 overall in ypg rushing in 2017. (regressed in 2018)
The Vikings finished #11 overall in ypg passing in 2017. (improved in 2018)

Which resulted in a 13-3 record.

The Broncos finished #11 overall in ypg defensively in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Broncos finished #12 overall in ypg rushing in 2018 (flat from 2017)
The Broncos finished #19 overall in ypg passing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)

Which resulted in a 6-10 record.
Then I wrote:
With Cousins:
The Redskins finished #21 overall in ypg defensively in 2017. (improved in 2018)
The Redskins finished #28 overall in ypg rushing in 2017. (improved in 2018 - moved up to #17)
The Redskins finished #12 overall in ypg passing in 2017. (regressed in 2018) Lest we forget their starting quarterback got injured though...

Which resulted in a 7-9 record.

The Vikings finished #4 overall in ypg defensively in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Vikings finished #30 overall in ypg rushing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Vikings finished #13 overall in ypg passing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)

Which resulted in a 8-7-1 record.
Not sure of the point Dude was trying to make going across teams and such, but this shows that Cousins leaving Washington made them better and him coming to MN made them worse.

Can someone not named Joe or Dude explain what I am missing here?

If you pass better and complete first downs you control the clock. That allows you to run more. If you are losing most of the game because you are not getting first downs it makes you pass more and run less. The records for Cousins stayed the same middle of the road, but Denver improved by one game from the previous year.

Dude, you have been boxed by myself and Silver. Time to admit you are wrong and move on.

Otherwise give me some stat to prove anything you say. This stat you gave only makes Cousins look worse.
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:06 pm So Dude wrote:
With Keenum:
The Vikings finished #1 overall in ypg defensively in 2017. (regressed in 2018)
The Vikings finished #7 overall in ypg rushing in 2017. (regressed in 2018)
The Vikings finished #11 overall in ypg passing in 2017. (improved in 2018)

Which resulted in a 13-3 record.

The Broncos finished #11 overall in ypg defensively in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Broncos finished #12 overall in ypg rushing in 2018 (flat from 2017)
The Broncos finished #19 overall in ypg passing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)

Which resulted in a 6-10 record.
Then I wrote:
With Cousins:
The Redskins finished #21 overall in ypg defensively in 2017. (improved in 2018)
The Redskins finished #28 overall in ypg rushing in 2017. (improved in 2018 - moved up to #17)
The Redskins finished #12 overall in ypg passing in 2017. (regressed in 2018) Lest we forget their starting quarterback got injured though...

Which resulted in a 7-9 record.

The Vikings finished #4 overall in ypg defensively in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Vikings finished #30 overall in ypg rushing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Vikings finished #13 overall in ypg passing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)

Which resulted in a 8-7-1 record.
Not sure of the point Dude was trying to make going across teams and such, but this shows that Cousins leaving Washington made them better and him coming to MN made them worse.

Can someone not named Joe or Dude explain what I am missing here?

If you pass better and complete first downs you control the clock. That allows you to run more. If you are losing most of the game because you are not getting first downs it makes you pass more and run less. The records for Cousins stayed the same middle of the road, but Denver improved by one game from the previous year.

Dude, you have been boxed by myself and Silver. Time to admit you are wrong and move on.

Otherwise give me some stat to prove anything you say. This stat you gave only makes Cousins look worse.
:lol:
Dude
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Dude »

cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 3:06 pm So Dude wrote:
With Keenum:
The Vikings finished #1 overall in ypg defensively in 2017. (regressed in 2018)
The Vikings finished #7 overall in ypg rushing in 2017. (regressed in 2018)
The Vikings finished #11 overall in ypg passing in 2017. (improved in 2018)

Which resulted in a 13-3 record.

The Broncos finished #11 overall in ypg defensively in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Broncos finished #12 overall in ypg rushing in 2018 (flat from 2017)
The Broncos finished #19 overall in ypg passing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)

Which resulted in a 6-10 record.
Then I wrote:
With Cousins:
The Redskins finished #21 overall in ypg defensively in 2017. (improved in 2018)
The Redskins finished #28 overall in ypg rushing in 2017. (improved in 2018 - moved up to #17)
The Redskins finished #12 overall in ypg passing in 2017. (regressed in 2018) Lest we forget their starting quarterback got injured though...

Which resulted in a 7-9 record.

The Vikings finished #4 overall in ypg defensively in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Vikings finished #30 overall in ypg rushing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)
The Vikings finished #13 overall in ypg passing in 2018 (regressed from 2017)

Which resulted in a 8-7-1 record.
Not sure of the point Dude was trying to make going across teams and such, but this shows that Cousins leaving Washington made them better and him coming to MN made them worse.

Can someone not named Joe or Dude explain what I am missing here?

If you pass better and complete first downs you control the clock. That allows you to run more. If you are losing most of the game because you are not getting first downs it makes you pass more and run less. The records for Cousins stayed the same middle of the road, but Denver improved by one game from the previous year.

Dude, you have been boxed by myself and Silver. Time to admit you are wrong and move on.

Otherwise give me some stat to prove anything you say. This stat you gave only makes Cousins look worse.
I really don't know how to help you. I'm trying to convey that football is a team sport. You're arguing what color a dog's bark smells like.
silverjoel
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by silverjoel »

Let's look at 1st half rushing (2018 & 2017).

231 rushes for 883 yards for 3.82 YPC

169 rushes for 762 yards for 4.51 YPC

One has more yards and one has a much higher (relative to rushing) YPC. So, which one is better?
RubeTube
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by RubeTube »

KDC! KDC! KDC!

Get em Kirk!!
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Dude
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Dude »

silverjoel wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:06 pm Let's look at 1st half rushing (2018 & 2017).

231 rushes for 883 yards for 3.82 YPC

169 rushes for 762 yards for 4.51 YPC

One has more yards and one has a much higher (relative to rushing) YPC. So, which one is better?
The one where they ran the ball more often.

Here's another one:

3rd down and less than 4 yards to go, which one is better?

15 carries for 56 yards, 3.7 yard average and 12 first downs

17 carries for 33 yards, 1.9 yard average and 10 first downs.
silverjoel
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by silverjoel »

Dude wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm
silverjoel wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:06 pm Let's look at 1st half rushing (2018 & 2017).

231 rushes for 883 yards for 3.82 YPC

169 rushes for 762 yards for 4.51 YPC

One has more yards and one has a much higher (relative to rushing) YPC. So, which one is better?
The one where they ran the ball more often.

Here's another one:

3rd down and less than 4 yards to go, which one is better?

15 carries for 56 yards, 3.7 yard average and 12 first downs

17 carries for 33 yards, 1.9 yard average and 10 first downs.
The one with better numbers across the board. Just like Bridgewater in 2015 on 3rd and 7+, correct?
Dude
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Dude »

silverjoel wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:54 pm
Dude wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm
silverjoel wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 4:06 pm Let's look at 1st half rushing (2018 & 2017).

231 rushes for 883 yards for 3.82 YPC

169 rushes for 762 yards for 4.51 YPC

One has more yards and one has a much higher (relative to rushing) YPC. So, which one is better?
The one where they ran the ball more often.

Here's another one:

3rd down and less than 4 yards to go, which one is better?

15 carries for 56 yards, 3.7 yard average and 12 first downs

17 carries for 33 yards, 1.9 yard average and 10 first downs.
The one with better numbers across the board. Just like Bridgewater in 2015 on 3rd and 7+, correct?
Absolutely.
RubeTube
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by RubeTube »

I see Cunningham is now stinking up the kickers thread. I'm not going to ruin it even more so I will comment here.

Cunningham said "Cousins wasn't bad in the red zone"

Image

Lol.

14/9
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X

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Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Red Zone Stats (Inside the 20):

Cousins 2018 = 48/72, 67%, 302 yards, 20 TD's

Keenum 2017 = 33/53, 62%, 233 yards, 17 TD's

Teddy 2015 = 20/48, 42%, 140 yards, 9 TD's

:lol:
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Teddy sure was clutch though!
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Ash Ketchum »

Trading statistical jabs back and forth doesn’t change the fact that Cousins is a solid NFL starter with the potential to be better than that with better protection and playcalling.

Note, I said, he has the potential to. He definitely needs to prove himself in 2019.

Even given all of his flaws, to argue Teddy Bridgewater or Case Keenum are better QBs than Cousins is delusional.
Joe Bag 'O Donuts
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Only the St. Louis Rams threw for fewer yards, touchdowns, and first downs than the Vikings did in 2015.

Teddy sure contributed to that lower 3 and out percentage with a lot of 1st downs!

#clutch
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cunningham
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by cunningham »

You guys are funny :lol:

Contorting my words to fit your narrative. Rube, I said he was good in the red zone. We agree. I said Cousins had the best stats of anyone since Favre as well.

From what I have seen of Cousins I don’t think he is the best quarterback since Favre though. His best season was 9-7 and then getting quickly beat in the playoffs by the same Packer team that a Teddy Bridgewater led Vikings team beat the week before to win the North.

I will call him the best quarterback since Favre when he does more on the field win-wise than any quarterback has done since Favre.

Stats are great for Fantasy Football, but I’d rather win the NFC Championship game. Favre also won a Super Bowl in his career and did a hell of a lot more than Cousins has ever done. Keenum went 13-3 and you give him no credit. Even though Rube said Cousins was a fantasy football stats champ.

You may have bought into the Cousins hype, but I need to see him win more games before I admit he is the best since Favre.
PurpleHaze
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by PurpleHaze »

Joe Bag 'O Donuts wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 11:12 pm Only the St. Louis Rams threw for fewer yards, touchdowns, and first downs than the Vikings did in 2015.

Teddy sure contributed to that lower 3 and out percentage with a lot of 1st downs!

#clutch
If anyone argues that Bridgewater is better than Cousins, their delusional.

But everyone forgets that 2015 was Bridgewater's first full season as a starter and his #1 WR was a rookie Diggs(720 yards and 4 TDs). He was young and had promise, especially in the 4th quarter when the score was within 7 points (72% completion, 9.8 yard average, 118.8 rating and 0 Ints). Also TJ Clemmings and Matt Kalil were the tackles and Fusco & Mike Harris were the guards, arguably worse than 2018.

It was literally PHENOMENAL how incredible Bridgewater's ability to escape pressure was, I mean he literally looked like a veteran handling pressure. It really was incredible.

It was also totally obvious how horrible Norv's offense fit Bridgewater. Bridgewater in Norv's offense made as mush sense as a Lamar Jackson type offense ran by Philip Rivers. It was a recipe for disaster from the start. How did Cam Newton and Carolina do with Norv's offense? Answer: abysmal. Norv's rushing offense in 2018 was successful running the ball, #4 in the league, so at least he has been consistent at one thing.

When context is applied it's obvious Bridgewater had to overcome a lot of obstacles(Fucking horrible OC, even worse Oline and below average WR's at the time) he had a better season than he should have for his first full season.

Cousins is here now and even after a disappointing first season it still is very encouraging going into the 2019 season. Improved Running game, play calling and offensive line, it looks like it potentially could be dangerous and even more dangerous if the defense steps it up a couple notches like they did in 2017.
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Should have been WAY more booing from the home crowd imo. You have to drown out the cheers from Oscar.

Oscar on the Vikes:
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cunningham
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by cunningham »

PurpleHaze wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 6:43 am
Joe Bag 'O Donuts wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 11:12 pm Only the St. Louis Rams threw for fewer yards, touchdowns, and first downs than the Vikings did in 2015.

Teddy sure contributed to that lower 3 and out percentage with a lot of 1st downs!

#clutch
If anyone argues that Bridgewater is better than Cousins, their delusional.

But everyone forgets that 2015 was Bridgewater's first full season as a starter and his #1 WR was a rookie Diggs(720 yards and 4 TDs). He was young and had promise, especially in the 4th quarter when the score was within 7 points (72% completion, 9.8 yard average, 118.8 rating and 0 Ints). Also TJ Clemmings and Matt Kalil were the tackles and Fusco & Mike Harris were the guards, arguably worse than 2018.

It was literally PHENOMENAL how incredible Bridgewater's ability to escape pressure was, I mean he literally looked like a veteran handling pressure. It really was incredible.

It was also totally obvious how horrible Norv's offense fit Bridgewater. Bridgewater in Norv's offense made as mush sense as a Lamar Jackson type offense ran by Philip Rivers. It was a recipe for disaster from the start. How did Cam Newton and Carolina do with Norv's offense? Answer: abysmal. Norv's rushing offense in 2018 was successful running the ball, #4 in the league, so at least he has been consistent at one thing.

When context is applied it's obvious Bridgewater had to overcome a lot of obstacles(Fucking horrible OC, even worse Oline and below average WR's at the time) he had a better season than he should have for his first full season.

Cousins is here now and even after a disappointing first season it still is very encouraging going into the 2019 season. Improved Running game, play calling and offensive line, it looks like it potentially could be dangerous and even more dangerous if the defense steps it up a couple notches like they did in 2017.
Agreed.

I said that statistically that Cousins is the best since Favre, but winning games and using other metrics that I would judge a quarterback on are less strong. If I compare apples to apples I would much rather have Cousins than Bridgewater as my quarterback next season.

I want to see Cousins accomplish more than lofty stats though. Right now I don't think he is better than Keenum though.

Winning games is all that matters to me. If a guy throws for 1 TD and wins the game 7-3 all season long and wins the Super Bowl I would gladly take that over 4000 yards, 30 TDs, and an 8-7-1 record.
Hector
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Hector »

cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:08 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 12:45 pm
cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 12:17 pm

I'm not. Teddy was the quarterback of this team when they won the North and made the playoffs. He led a final drive in that playoff game to set up a game winning field goal. His supporting cast you ignore. Tell me, besides AP, who led that offense as his supporting cast?

I'm not speculating that Teddy might have developed into a better quarterback than Cousins. Never said that. You are just making stuff up at this point along with your two paragraphs of garbage intro.

The "multiple" people are you and Sergeant Rubetube.. Who we have shown now that Sergeant Rubetube believed exactly what I do about Cousins.

Again though, just so you can get it into your head, I am not saying that Teddy would have developed into anything. I never have. I'm saying he won games and got first downs. When he was playing. I have stuck to only when he has played and not ever once talked about what could have been with him.

I have said it is impossible to compare the two because you have a rookie 22 year old kid that I am trying to compare to a 30 year old veteran quarterback. There is no comparison. YES, COUSINS AT 31 YEARS OLD HAS BETTER STATS THAN TEDDY EVER DID.

And they both have one playoff appearance. So not much to show for either. I'm not going to speculate on what might have been if Teddy hadn't blown his knee because that is the reality we live in. I'm not going to say that Cousins is the best quarterback we have had since Favre until he does better than Keenum did. To pretend that Keenum had nothing to do with that 13-3 record is much dumber than anything I could say, hell, that is dumber than what Sergeant Rubetube said.

The award for best stats and no playoff wins is in the women's bathroom under the Top Gun runner up plaque.
Lol, you keep saying Teddy “only had one year starting” at QB for the Vikings, which I guess is partly true because his first season he only started 12 and a half games after coming in for Ponder, but THAT was his Age 22 season.

And it’s laughable to say we can’t compare Teddy at 23 and Cousins at 30. Yes, we fucking can.

The argument is “is Cousins the best QB we’ve had since Favre?”

You don’t get to put a hypothetically developed and older Bridgewater into that argument.
Ok, I don't think that Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre so far. I think Keenum was better. If you want to get extremely literal about it.

Also, first downs are more important to me than yards thrown. Time of possession is important. It goes back to me believing that a lot of those stats from Cousins comes because we are trailing or it is coming too little and too late.

So if the base argument is if Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre I would say, no, he is not the best quarterback we have had since Favre. Keenum was better. Teddy might have been better someday, but we'll never know. In his single season starting he won more games than Cousins ever has.

I keep wondering what is your measurement for ""BEST QUARTERBACK SINCE FAVRE?"

What is our criteria is probably why this is going on over 15 pages and two threads.

What makes Favre the ideal?

Was it stats? Wins? Playoff victories? Yards thrown?


What is the criteria so I can compare?
Favre by the age of 30 had 82 wins-43 losses, 14 playoff games and a Superbowl

Kirk is 34-37-2 because he didn't have all those superstar casts that Favre did. After a while you have to question how much effort you want to put into this because Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again.
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cunningham
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by cunningham »

Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am
cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:08 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Lol, you keep saying Teddy “only had one year starting” at QB for the Vikings, which I guess is partly true because his first season he only started 12 and a half games after coming in for Ponder, but THAT was his Age 22 season.

And it’s laughable to say we can’t compare Teddy at 23 and Cousins at 30. Yes, we fucking can.

The argument is “is Cousins the best QB we’ve had since Favre?”

You don’t get to put a hypothetically developed and older Bridgewater into that argument.
Ok, I don't think that Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre so far. I think Keenum was better. If you want to get extremely literal about it.

Also, first downs are more important to me than yards thrown. Time of possession is important. It goes back to me believing that a lot of those stats from Cousins comes because we are trailing or it is coming too little and too late.

So if the base argument is if Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre I would say, no, he is not the best quarterback we have had since Favre. Keenum was better. Teddy might have been better someday, but we'll never know. In his single season starting he won more games than Cousins ever has.

I keep wondering what is your measurement for ""BEST QUARTERBACK SINCE FAVRE?"

What is our criteria is probably why this is going on over 15 pages and two threads.

What makes Favre the ideal?

Was it stats? Wins? Playoff victories? Yards thrown?


What is the criteria so I can compare?
Favre by the age of 30 had 82 wins-43 losses, 14 playoff games and a Superbowl

Kirk is 34-37-2 because he didn't have all those superstar casts that Favre did. After a while you have to question how much effort you want to put into this because Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again.
I don't get what you mean that "Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again?" The stats, yards, or wins? He has been very consistent now across two teams in the win column. Very consistent in his record against teams with a winning record.

I feel like he will continue to play like he has. Also, he had a damn good supporting cast in Washington. He had Shanahan, Gruden, and McVay as his coaches. That is like the dream team.

Cousins had Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson and still went 8-7-1 while racking up tons of yards. 2nd most yards thrown, but again as I am saying, at a certain point you have to look beyond yards and ask if he is doing what he needs to win games?

As Sergeant Rubetube said, Cousins is a fantasy stat guy. I want to see him win games! If he can win games I will be the first to admit I was wrong and that he is an elite quarterback. If we win a playoff game I would re-sign him and call him our franchise quarterback.

How can you overlook that we were 13-3 and then were 8-7-1 from a guy who has sat at that same win total throughout his entire career? It feels like this is Cousins MO.
Hector
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Hector »

cunningham wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 am
Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am
cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:08 pm

Ok, I don't think that Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre so far. I think Keenum was better. If you want to get extremely literal about it.

Also, first downs are more important to me than yards thrown. Time of possession is important. It goes back to me believing that a lot of those stats from Cousins comes because we are trailing or it is coming too little and too late.

So if the base argument is if Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre I would say, no, he is not the best quarterback we have had since Favre. Keenum was better. Teddy might have been better someday, but we'll never know. In his single season starting he won more games than Cousins ever has.

I keep wondering what is your measurement for ""BEST QUARTERBACK SINCE FAVRE?"

What is our criteria is probably why this is going on over 15 pages and two threads.

What makes Favre the ideal?

Was it stats? Wins? Playoff victories? Yards thrown?


What is the criteria so I can compare?
Favre by the age of 30 had 82 wins-43 losses, 14 playoff games and a Superbowl

Kirk is 34-37-2 because he didn't have all those superstar casts that Favre did. After a while you have to question how much effort you want to put into this because Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again.
I don't get what you mean that "Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again?" The stats, yards, or wins? He has been very consistent now across two teams in the win column. Very consistent in his record against teams with a winning record.

I feel like he will continue to play like he has. Also, he had a damn good supporting cast in Washington. He had Shanahan, Gruden, and McVay as his coaches. That is like the dream team.

Cousins had Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson and still went 8-7-1 while racking up tons of yards. 2nd most yards thrown, but again as I am saying, at a certain point you have to look beyond yards and ask if he is doing what he needs to win games?

As Sergeant Rubetube said, Cousins is a fantasy stat guy. I want to see him win games! If he can win games I will be the first to admit I was wrong and that he is an elite quarterback. If we win a playoff game I would re-sign him and call him our franchise quarterback.

How can you overlook that we were 13-3 and then were 8-7-1 from a guy who has sat at that same win total throughout his entire career? It feels like this is Cousins MO.
(sarcam) We both know he's going to fade when the spotlight is on and he'll have virtually the same season next year...he's not a Phillip Rivers type who can gut out a win let alone a Favre type (who propelled his team for seasons on end), but yet you're having these pages long arguments over him.
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by RubeTube »

Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am
cunningham wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 1:08 pm
Ash Ketchum wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Lol, you keep saying Teddy “only had one year starting” at QB for the Vikings, which I guess is partly true because his first season he only started 12 and a half games after coming in for Ponder, but THAT was his Age 22 season.

And it’s laughable to say we can’t compare Teddy at 23 and Cousins at 30. Yes, we fucking can.

The argument is “is Cousins the best QB we’ve had since Favre?”

You don’t get to put a hypothetically developed and older Bridgewater into that argument.
Ok, I don't think that Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre so far. I think Keenum was better. If you want to get extremely literal about it.

Also, first downs are more important to me than yards thrown. Time of possession is important. It goes back to me believing that a lot of those stats from Cousins comes because we are trailing or it is coming too little and too late.

So if the base argument is if Cousins is the best quarterback since Favre I would say, no, he is not the best quarterback we have had since Favre. Keenum was better. Teddy might have been better someday, but we'll never know. In his single season starting he won more games than Cousins ever has.

I keep wondering what is your measurement for ""BEST QUARTERBACK SINCE FAVRE?"

What is our criteria is probably why this is going on over 15 pages and two threads.

What makes Favre the ideal?

Was it stats? Wins? Playoff victories? Yards thrown?


What is the criteria so I can compare?
Favre by the age of 30 had 82 wins-43 losses, 14 playoff games and a Superbowl

Kirk is 34-37-2 because he didn't have all those superstar casts that Favre did. After a while you have to question how much effort you want to put into this because Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again.
The 1996 and 1997 Packers teams were as good or better than any Vikings team I have ever watched play.

There was your SB and 5 Playoff wins right there.

Favre was obviously the better QB. He's a all time top 5 imo.

Cousins is a top 10 right now. That's not too shabby.
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 10:27 am
cunningham wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 am
Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am

Favre by the age of 30 had 82 wins-43 losses, 14 playoff games and a Superbowl

Kirk is 34-37-2 because he didn't have all those superstar casts that Favre did. After a while you have to question how much effort you want to put into this because Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again.
I don't get what you mean that "Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again?" The stats, yards, or wins? He has been very consistent now across two teams in the win column. Very consistent in his record against teams with a winning record.

I feel like he will continue to play like he has. Also, he had a damn good supporting cast in Washington. He had Shanahan, Gruden, and McVay as his coaches. That is like the dream team.

Cousins had Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson and still went 8-7-1 while racking up tons of yards. 2nd most yards thrown, but again as I am saying, at a certain point you have to look beyond yards and ask if he is doing what he needs to win games?

As Sergeant Rubetube said, Cousins is a fantasy stat guy. I want to see him win games! If he can win games I will be the first to admit I was wrong and that he is an elite quarterback. If we win a playoff game I would re-sign him and call him our franchise quarterback.

How can you overlook that we were 13-3 and then were 8-7-1 from a guy who has sat at that same win total throughout his entire career? It feels like this is Cousins MO.
(sarcam) We both know he's going to fade when the spotlight is on and he'll have virtually the same season next year...he's not a Phillip Rivers type who can gut out a win let alone a Favre type (who propelled his team for seasons on end), but yet you're having these pages long arguments over him.
It's pretty simple dear Hector. Because that's not the argument. Dumbingham and Silverdrool are convinced that Teddy is a better QB than Kirk, and they keep falling over themselves to prove that.

While the rest of us acknowledge that there is work to do and much to prove for Kirk, those two dummies can't even bring themselves to admit he's the best we've had around here in a decade.

And apparently a QB should have zero stats and production in order to be good in their minds. Because production doesn't have any effect on the outcome of a game.

They can't imagine that when Teddy didn't do anything, the rest of the team was a bigger factor in winning. It only has to do with the QB, and some nebulous mental thought process, and maybe using the force that happens.
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by cunningham »

Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 10:27 am
cunningham wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 am
Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am

Favre by the age of 30 had 82 wins-43 losses, 14 playoff games and a Superbowl

Kirk is 34-37-2 because he didn't have all those superstar casts that Favre did. After a while you have to question how much effort you want to put into this because Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again.
I don't get what you mean that "Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again?" The stats, yards, or wins? He has been very consistent now across two teams in the win column. Very consistent in his record against teams with a winning record.

I feel like he will continue to play like he has. Also, he had a damn good supporting cast in Washington. He had Shanahan, Gruden, and McVay as his coaches. That is like the dream team.

Cousins had Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson and still went 8-7-1 while racking up tons of yards. 2nd most yards thrown, but again as I am saying, at a certain point you have to look beyond yards and ask if he is doing what he needs to win games?

As Sergeant Rubetube said, Cousins is a fantasy stat guy. I want to see him win games! If he can win games I will be the first to admit I was wrong and that he is an elite quarterback. If we win a playoff game I would re-sign him and call him our franchise quarterback.

How can you overlook that we were 13-3 and then were 8-7-1 from a guy who has sat at that same win total throughout his entire career? It feels like this is Cousins MO.
(sarcam) We both know he's going to fade when the spotlight is on and he'll have virtually the same season next year...he's not a Phillip Rivers type who can gut out a win let alone a Favre type (who propelled his team for seasons on end), but yet you're having these pages long arguments over him.
Sometimes I argue with these bits/trolls/whatevers just to see if someone can give me some reason to not think next season will be a repeat of last season. I really like Zimmer and felt he took a big step backward last season. I don't want to lose him over this Cousins deal. I'd prefer that RS finally got the ax because he refuses to draft a quarterback. He drafted Ponder, he brought in Freeman, and he fully guaranteed Cousins $84 million for 3 years. He traded a first for Bradford... (Ever read that article that said the Bradford trade was the reason the Eagles won the Super Bowl? (https://www.businessinsider.com/eagels- ... ade-2018-1) We are a joke. We should be on the other end of stories like this, but with RS we are on the losing end.

I bought into all the hype about Cousins last offseason. Then I watched this past season and by the end I was questioning my loyalty to this entire team. In 40+ years of watching them I have never felt this way. That Chicago game was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I remember the push out when we were bumped from the playoffs in Arizona like 20 years ago. That was a close game. Then we have the times where just atrocious quarterbacks like Ponder or TJack got us to the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. AP fumbling at inopportune moments. The games were close though.

By the end of the Chicago game our team was facing scrubs and had no answer on their home turf. Just falling more and more behind to a Chicago team I thought was grossly overrated. Their heart was gone. Then Cousins is arguing with Theilen and showing him that iPad. After the game he gave the exact same cliche' he did when he lost in the playoffs years before.

This team has hidden him all offseason and is in damage control. Next offseason we will lose a lot of good players because we overpaid for Cousins.

He just is not worth the money we gave him. He isn't worth losing what we will have to give up. I hope I am wrong, but I've been right about this stuff too often in my life. Frustrating that we have to strengthen the rest of the team to mask Cousins' deficiencies, but we have little money to do it.

Then you take into account that Cousins wanted this big payday and felt he was not being treated right. He asked for this and when the kitchen heated up he ran around whining about how the fire got started. Grab some buckets and get to work!
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by cunningham »

Joe Bag 'O Donuts wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 10:55 am
Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 10:27 am
cunningham wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 am

I don't get what you mean that "Kirk will be sure to deliver this type of season again?" The stats, yards, or wins? He has been very consistent now across two teams in the win column. Very consistent in his record against teams with a winning record.

I feel like he will continue to play like he has. Also, he had a damn good supporting cast in Washington. He had Shanahan, Gruden, and McVay as his coaches. That is like the dream team.

Cousins had Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson and still went 8-7-1 while racking up tons of yards. 2nd most yards thrown, but again as I am saying, at a certain point you have to look beyond yards and ask if he is doing what he needs to win games?

As Sergeant Rubetube said, Cousins is a fantasy stat guy. I want to see him win games! If he can win games I will be the first to admit I was wrong and that he is an elite quarterback. If we win a playoff game I would re-sign him and call him our franchise quarterback.

How can you overlook that we were 13-3 and then were 8-7-1 from a guy who has sat at that same win total throughout his entire career? It feels like this is Cousins MO.
(sarcam) We both know he's going to fade when the spotlight is on and he'll have virtually the same season next year...he's not a Phillip Rivers type who can gut out a win let alone a Favre type (who propelled his team for seasons on end), but yet you're having these pages long arguments over him.
It's pretty simple dear Hector. Because that's not the argument. Dumbingham and Silverdrool are convinced that Teddy is a better QB than Kirk, and they keep falling over themselves to prove that.

While the rest of us acknowledge that there is work to do and much to prove for Kirk, those two dummies can't even bring themselves to admit he's the best we've had around here in a decade.

And apparently a QB should have zero stats and production in order to be good in their minds. Because production doesn't have any effect on the outcome of a game.

They can't imagine that when Teddy didn't do anything, the rest of the team was a bigger factor in winning. It only has to do with the QB, and some nebulous mental thought process, and maybe using the force that happens.
You are such a victim for a troll. I never said and do not believe that Teddy "IS" a better quarterback than Cousins. That ship sailed when Teddy blew his knee.

Keenum was a better quarterback than Cousins from what I have seen. I guess I like to see us win more than I like to watch a futile comeback late in the game that racks up a ton of yards. Let's see Cousins beat some teams with winning records before we say he is better than a quarterback who led this team to a 13-3 record and the NFC Championship game.
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by Joe Bag 'O Donuts »

cunningham wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 11:34 am
Joe Bag 'O Donuts wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 10:55 am
Hector wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 10:27 am

(sarcam) We both know he's going to fade when the spotlight is on and he'll have virtually the same season next year...he's not a Phillip Rivers type who can gut out a win let alone a Favre type (who propelled his team for seasons on end), but yet you're having these pages long arguments over him.
It's pretty simple dear Hector. Because that's not the argument. Dumbingham and Silverdrool are convinced that Teddy is a better QB than Kirk, and they keep falling over themselves to prove that.

While the rest of us acknowledge that there is work to do and much to prove for Kirk, those two dummies can't even bring themselves to admit he's the best we've had around here in a decade.

And apparently a QB should have zero stats and production in order to be good in their minds. Because production doesn't have any effect on the outcome of a game.

They can't imagine that when Teddy didn't do anything, the rest of the team was a bigger factor in winning. It only has to do with the QB, and some nebulous mental thought process, and maybe using the force that happens.
You are such a victim for a troll. I never said and do not believe that Teddy "IS" a better quarterback than Cousins. That ship sailed when Teddy blew his knee.

Keenum was a better quarterback than Cousins from what I have seen. I guess I like to see us win more than I like to watch a futile comeback late in the game that racks up a ton of yards. Let's see Cousins beat some teams with winning records before we say he is better than a quarterback who led this team to a 13-3 record and the NFC Championship game.
How bout this, you want a response from me in the future, you have to provide something new. The same winning teams, iPad, etc etc copy paste bullshit will be ignored. M'kay? Oh, and Keenum is not better than Cousins. You're welcome. :D
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Re: KDC: Most pressured QB in 2018

Post by silverjoel »

Joe Bag 'O Donuts wrote: Wed May 15, 2019 9:24 pm Red Zone Stats (Inside the 20):

Cousins 2018 = 48/72, 67%, 302 yards, 20 TD's

Keenum 2017 = 33/53, 62%, 233 yards, 17 TD's

Teddy 2015 = 20/48, 42%, 140 yards, 9 TD's

:lol:
Hey, Cousins is only 5 short of Blake Bortles' 25 red zone TD throws in 2015. He does have Bortles' 18 TD throws in 2016 and 2017 beat by 2. So, he's got that going for him.
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