Drake Maye or J.J. McCarthy?

[D_H]

What impressed you most about JJ MCCARTHY this year?

The national championship game where is was obvious the head coach was hiding him?

The game where he only was allowed to pass 8 times

The game when he threw 3 picks against D2 Bowling Green and admitted after words they did things to confuse him?

To answer your first question I would say 3rd down conversion rate. Better than all the QB's in the past two drafts by quite a bit.

And of course winning the chip.

Chop Robinson was eating up Michigan's pass blocking so they decided to run the ball the entire 2nd half. Sounds like some Harbaugh would do if he could.

He was totally in over his skies in that game and you know it and Washington's D is crap.

[-VikingsTw-]

What impressed you most about JJ MCCARTHY this year?

The national championship game where is was obvious the head coach was hiding him?

The game where he only was allowed to pass 8 times

The game when he threw 3 picks against D2 Bowling Green and admitted after words they did things to confuse him?

Maybe but Harbaugh is old school, if he can run the football he will run the football. Was there any reason to go air coryell offense?

They absolutely dominated in the trenches there was reason to ask him to pass for 250 or 300 yards. I'd have to look at the stats he was probably asked to do more vs Alabama and Ohio State.

I looked at his flim again and he was even less impressive the second time.

Like they said on the herd today - he was considered a second round talent going into the national championship game, played bad it was clear they were hiding him and SUDDENLY he moves up lately? It's all hype from his camp NOT NFL people.

I don't believe the Vikings are foolish enough to risk their jods reaching for Chad Henne 2.0

Nah, he's really impressive in meetings and has tremendous leadership qualities, competitiveness and work ethic. It's not rocket science. Teams like that stuff because most all the great ones had those qualities.

However I do agree to an extent that his overall tape dos not show a finished product or guy that's ready IMO.

It's all about the projection and where this kids gonna be when he's 24 or 25. That's what your paying for.

[-VikingsTw-]

What impressed you most about JJ MCCARTHY this year?

The national championship game where is was obvious the head coach was hiding him?

The game where he only was allowed to pass 8 times

The game when he threw 3 picks against D2 Bowling Green and admitted after words they did things to confuse him?

To answer your first question I would say 3rd down conversion rate. Better than all the QB's in the past two drafts by quite a bit.

And of course winning the chip.

Chop Robinson was eating up Michigan's pass blocking so they decided to run the ball the entire 2nd half. Sounds like some Harbaugh would do if he could.

He was totally in over his skies in that game and you know it and Washington's D is crap.

I'll take a look at it.

[-VikingsTw-]

He was totally in over his skies in that game and you know it and Washington's D is crap.

How bad could this be man, his stat line is 7 for 8

[D_H]

Maybe but Harbaugh is old school, if he can run the football he will run the football. Was there any reason to go air coryell offense?

They absolutely dominated in the trenches there was reason to ask him to pass for 250 or 300 yards. I'd have to look at the stats he was probably asked to do more vs Alabama and Ohio State.

I looked at his flim again and he was even less impressive the second time.

Like they said on the herd today - he was considered a second round talent going into the national championship game, played bad it was clear they were hiding him and SUDDENLY he moves up lately? It's all hype from his camp NOT NFL people.

I don't believe the Vikings are foolish enough to risk their jods reaching for Chad Henne 2.0

Nah, he's really impressive in meetings and has tremendous leadership qualities, competitiveness and work ethic. It's not rocket science. Teams like that stuff because most all the great ones had those qualities.

However I do agree to an extent that his overall tape dos not show a finished product or guy that's ready IMO.

It's all about the projection and where this kids gonna be when he's 24 or 25. That's what your paying for.

Ponder was impressive at meetings. Lol it means NOTHING.

Come on man you know ball better than that buddy you have always been a knowledgeable fan. I mean Mlhouse compared him to Josh Allen that's how nuts this has become! Lol

Go pull up the Bowling Green tape it is horrific to say the least.

[William Munny]

I looked at his flim again and he was even less impressive the second time.

Like they said on the herd today - he was considered a second round talent going into the national championship game, played bad it was clear they were hiding him and SUDDENLY he moves up lately? It's all hype from his camp NOT NFL people.

I don't believe the Vikings are foolish enough to risk their jods reaching for Chad Henne 2.0

Nah, he's really impressive in meetings and has tremendous leadership qualities, competitiveness and work ethic. It's not rocket science. Teams like that stuff because most all the great ones had those qualities.

However I do agree to an extent that his overall tape dos not show a finished product or guy that's ready IMO.

It's all about the projection and where this kids gonna be when he's 24 or 25. That's what your paying for.

Ponder was impressive at meetings. Lol it means NOTHING.

Come on man you know ball better than that buddy you have always been a knowledgeable fan. I mean Mlhouse compared him to Josh Allen that's how nuts this has become! Lol

Go pull up the Bowling Green tape it is horrific to say the least.

[-VikingsTw-]

I looked at his flim again and he was even less impressive the second time.

Like they said on the herd today - he was considered a second round talent going into the national championship game, played bad it was clear they were hiding him and SUDDENLY he moves up lately? It's all hype from his camp NOT NFL people.

I don't believe the Vikings are foolish enough to risk their jods reaching for Chad Henne 2.0

Nah, he's really impressive in meetings and has tremendous leadership qualities, competitiveness and work ethic. It's not rocket science. Teams like that stuff because most all the great ones had those qualities.

However I do agree to an extent that his overall tape dos not show a finished product or guy that's ready IMO.

It's all about the projection and where this kids gonna be when he's 24 or 25. That's what your paying for.

Ponder was impressive at meetings. Lol it means NOTHING.

Come on man you know ball better than that buddy you have always been a knowledgeable fan. I mean Mlhouse compared him to Josh Allen that's how nuts this has become! Lol

Go pull up the Bowling Green tape it is horrific to say the least.

Well he's not the only one, he's been compared to Josh Allen by others in comparison to competitiveness.

I find it hard to comp him so I don't even bother with it.

I watched the Penn State game, he might had one or two drop backs where he actually had a pocket. They were all over his ass, they couldn't handle the pass rush.

He made some real nice throws getting the ball out and under pressure/evading. A few nice runs, one really clutch run. I get why they did what they did with the game plan to finish that game. It was a battle and Harbaugh did what he had to do.

JJ had one semi close call throwing a wild ball that could have been an INT but in the end wasn't that close to an INT.

Had the TE down the seem in the 2nd half and didn't put the ball in a very good place but still drew a PI. Again want more in terms of ball placement. I've stated that with him.

Took one really bad sack thinking he could outrun a defender. I've seen this quite a bit with him and noted it in the past. He'll have to learn that he's athletic enough to really hurt a defense but not athletic enough to outrun defenders all the time when he's getting chased down outside the pocket. Gonna have to be a sweet spot there with how he utilizes his athleticism.

Never felt he was in over his head, that's my take on the game.

[-VikingsTw-]

I looked at his flim again and he was even less impressive the second time.

Like they said on the herd today - he was considered a second round talent going into the national championship game, played bad it was clear they were hiding him and SUDDENLY he moves up lately? It's all hype from his camp NOT NFL people.

I don't believe the Vikings are foolish enough to risk their jods reaching for Chad Henne 2.0

Nah, he's really impressive in meetings and has tremendous leadership qualities, competitiveness and work ethic. It's not rocket science. Teams like that stuff because most all the great ones had those qualities.

However I do agree to an extent that his overall tape dos not show a finished product or guy that's ready IMO.

It's all about the projection and where this kids gonna be when he's 24 or 25. That's what your paying for.

Ponder was impressive at meetings. Lol it means NOTHING.

Come on man you know ball better than that buddy you have always been a knowledgeable fan. I mean Mlhouse compared him to Josh Allen that's how nuts this has become! Lol

Go pull up the Bowling Green tape it is horrific to say the least.

It's not just the meetings its actually getting to be around him up close and personal. Everything that goes with that. His stock has risen and he'll go way higher than anticipated.

Minn, Denver, NY, LV... someone will take him in the first. But you never know, at this point it would be a shocker if he made it out the top 15.

[somuchyummy]

Fun OMG mock by Bucky Brooks out today has us holding steady at 11 and 23 - and Drake Maye falls all the way to us with that first pick. We then go Cooper DeJean at 23 - although Jerzhan Newton is still there to pick as well. Dreams can happen, right?

[Beef Supreme]

Nah, he's really impressive in meetings and has tremendous leadership qualities, competitiveness and work ethic. It's not rocket science. Teams like that stuff because most all the great ones had those qualities.

However I do agree to an extent that his overall tape dos not show a finished product or guy that's ready IMO.

It's all about the projection and where this kids gonna be when he's 24 or 25. That's what your paying for.

Ponder was impressive at meetings. Lol it means NOTHING.

Come on man you know ball better than that buddy you have always been a knowledgeable fan. I mean Mlhouse compared him to Josh Allen that's how nuts this has become! Lol

Go pull up the Bowling Green tape it is horrific to say the least.

It's not just the meetings its actually getting to be around him up close and personal. Everything that goes with that. His stock has risen and he'll go way higher than anticipated.

Minn, Denver, NY, LV... someone will take him in the first. But you never know, at this point it would be a shocker if he made it out the top 15.

Again, we never know. Last year at the end of the year, Will Levis was thought of as a 2nd round pick. The "process" got him all hyped up to the top of the draft on mocks and twitter was ablaze with speculation as to where he would go. He ended up back in the 2nd round.

That's not to say that history will necessarily repeat itself. Levis is not McCarthy. But it is to say that teams have their own evaluations of these guys and that evaluation often differs from that of the Froobs and the Twitterverse. Meaning, we're all sure that McCarthy will go in the top-5 now, but we don't know. We all could be wrong. He could go in the middle of the first round. He could fall all the way down to the 2nd round. Or he could go 2 overall and Maye could slide. None of us know.

Now, in this particular case, I don't know if the hype around Levis was as connected to evaluators of repute like McCarthy is this year. It may have been more fluff stuff and there's more meat this year with JJ. That could be. But the point remains: We don't know.



When in doubt, I tend to revert back to what I thought at the end of the actual season. And Maye was #2 with a bullet IMHO at that time. JJ was a wildcard. I didn't have him squarely in round 2 or anything, but I thought there was enough uncertainty about him to at least scare teams off in the top-10. And all we've seen since then are workouts in shorts.

Anyway, I will continue to speculate because it's fun. I hope others do too because the more in the conversation, the better. But just about everyone was dead wrong about Levis last year. So, remember that as we move on this year.

[Beef Supreme]

Fun OMG mock by Bucky Brooks out today has us holding steady at 11 and 23 - and Drake Maye falls all the way to us with that first pick. We then go Cooper DeJean at 23 - although Jerzhan Newton is still there to pick as well. Dreams can happen, right?

I'm not sure which I find more insane: Maye falling to 11 or us taking DeJean over Newton at 23 if both are there.


If we somehow actually had a Maye/Newton draft I would accuse the NFL of rigging things FOR us for a change...

[-VikingsTw-]

Again, we never know. Last year at the end of the year, Will Levis was thought of as a 2nd round pick. The "process" got him all hyped up to the top of the draft on mocks and twitter was ablaze with speculation as to where he would go. He ended up back in the 2nd round.

That's not to say that history will necessarily repeat itself. Levis is not McCarthy. But it is to say that teams have their own evaluations of these guys and that evaluation often differs from that of the Froobs and the Twitterverse. Meaning, we're all sure that McCarthy will go in the top-5 now, but we don't know. We all could be wrong. He could go in the middle of the first round. He could fall all the way down to the 2nd round. Or he could go 2 overall and Maye could slide. None of us know.

Now, in this particular case, I don't know if the hype around Levis was as connected to evaluators of repute like McCarthy is this year. It may have been more fluff stuff and there's more meat this year with JJ. That could be. But the point remains: We don't know.



When in doubt, I tend to revert back to what I thought at the end of the actual season. And Maye was #2 with a bullet IMHO at that time. JJ was a wildcard. I didn't have him squarely in round 2 or anything, but I thought there was enough uncertainty about him to at least scare teams off in the top-10. And all we've seen since then are workouts in shorts.

Anyway, I will continue to speculate because it's fun. I hope others do too because the more in the conversation, the better. But just about everyone was dead wrong about Levis last year. So, remember that as we move on this year.

I hear you on that, especially about the part where you revert back to what it was at the end of the season.

Too much pre draft hype can skew what the tape really is. I do think JJ's stock is rising because they are meeting the kid and seeing him in person.

The same thing is happening to my eval of him. I do really like him but there is a lot left to be desired with his overall tape and I wasn't nearly as high on before I got to know who he is and what I think he can become.

And it is fun to speculate and especially when it won't stop snowing outside.

[mlhouse]

Fun OMG mock by Bucky Brooks out today has us holding steady at 11 and 23 - and Drake Maye falls all the way to us with that first pick. We then go Cooper DeJean at 23 - although Jerzhan Newton is still there to pick as well. Dreams can happen, right?

I never have understood why Bucky Brooks still does draft analysis.

Lets say the NFL draft has the order that Brooks has. Do you think the Denver Broncos sit at 12? The Oakland Raiders at 13? Hell the Saints and Seahawks at 14 and 16 would be seriously looking at picks 8 - 10 to move up to take a QB like Maye. I also don't think Maye gets past the Jets at #10.

There is too much QB need in the top 16 picks to make this scenario plausible.

[weimy froob]

Ponder was impressive at meetings. Lol it means NOTHING.

Come on man you know ball better than that buddy you have always been a knowledgeable fan. I mean Mlhouse compared him to Josh Allen that's how nuts this has become! Lol

Go pull up the Bowling Green tape it is horrific to say the least.

It's not just the meetings its actually getting to be around him up close and personal. Everything that goes with that. His stock has risen and he'll go way higher than anticipated.

Minn, Denver, NY, LV... someone will take him in the first. But you never know, at this point it would be a shocker if he made it out the top 15.

Again, we never know. Last year at the end of the year, Will Levis was thought of as a 2nd round pick. The "process" got him all hyped up to the top of the draft on mocks and twitter was ablaze with speculation as to where he would go. He ended up back in the 2nd round.

That's not to say that history will necessarily repeat itself. Levis is not McCarthy. But it is to say that teams have their own evaluations of these guys and that evaluation often differs from that of the Froobs and the Twitterverse. Meaning, we're all sure that McCarthy will go in the top-5 now, but we don't know. We all could be wrong. He could go in the middle of the first round. He could fall all the way down to the 2nd round. Or he could go 2 overall and Maye could slide. None of us know.

Now, in this particular case, I don't know if the hype around Levis was as connected to evaluators of repute like McCarthy is this year. It may have been more fluff stuff and there's more meat this year with JJ. That could be. But the point remains: We don't know.



When in doubt, I tend to revert back to what I thought at the end of the actual season. And Maye was #2 with a bullet IMHO at that time. JJ was a wildcard. I didn't have him squarely in round 2 or anything, but I thought there was enough uncertainty about him to at least scare teams off in the top-10. And all we've seen since then are workouts in shorts.

Anyway, I will continue to speculate because it's fun. I hope others do too because the more in the conversation, the better. But just about everyone was dead wrong about Levis last year. So, remember that as we move on this year.

i don't remember any will levis steam as it got closer to draft day here. i know that i jumped on the AR bandwagon and was hoping that he'd slip and they could move up to get him around 11. that was even a prediction by one of the beat writers. he didn't get past four.

[mlhouse]

It's not just the meetings its actually getting to be around him up close and personal. Everything that goes with that. His stock has risen and he'll go way higher than anticipated.

Minn, Denver, NY, LV... someone will take him in the first. But you never know, at this point it would be a shocker if he made it out the top 15.

Again, we never know. Last year at the end of the year, Will Levis was thought of as a 2nd round pick. The "process" got him all hyped up to the top of the draft on mocks and twitter was ablaze with speculation as to where he would go. He ended up back in the 2nd round.

That's not to say that history will necessarily repeat itself. Levis is not McCarthy. But it is to say that teams have their own evaluations of these guys and that evaluation often differs from that of the Froobs and the Twitterverse. Meaning, we're all sure that McCarthy will go in the top-5 now, but we don't know. We all could be wrong. He could go in the middle of the first round. He could fall all the way down to the 2nd round. Or he could go 2 overall and Maye could slide. None of us know.

Now, in this particular case, I don't know if the hype around Levis was as connected to evaluators of repute like McCarthy is this year. It may have been more fluff stuff and there's more meat this year with JJ. That could be. But the point remains: We don't know.



When in doubt, I tend to revert back to what I thought at the end of the actual season. And Maye was #2 with a bullet IMHO at that time. JJ was a wildcard. I didn't have him squarely in round 2 or anything, but I thought there was enough uncertainty about him to at least scare teams off in the top-10. And all we've seen since then are workouts in shorts.

Anyway, I will continue to speculate because it's fun. I hope others do too because the more in the conversation, the better. But just about everyone was dead wrong about Levis last year. So, remember that as we move on this year.

i don't remember any will levis steam as it got closer to draft day here. i know that i jumped on the AR bandwagon and was hoping that he'd slip and they could move up to get him around 11. that was even a prediction by one of the beat writers. he didn't get past four.

I'm still not on the AR bandwagon. I see lots of things that coaches/scouts love, especially his arm action. But are the Florida Gator coaches so bad that a franchise NFL QB can only compete 54.8% of his passes against college competition and NCAA football rules? He is fast and big, but he aint elusive and I don't want my quarterback running like a fullback in the NFL and taking hits.

[Mandatory]

JJ McCarthy is the one QB in the draft I don't want and the least of those reasons is the broccoli top haircut. Fucking hell.

[William Munny]

Bucky Brooks, Jeremiah Daniels, etc.....have to put out many different mocks with many different scenarios as part of their jobs. I watched one with Brooks and Daniels together today in which they only drafted offensive players with no trades in the first round. Ironically enough, Vikings got JJ at #11.

[Butch Bradford]

JJ McCarthy is the one QB in the draft I don't want and the least of those reasons is the broccoli top haircut. Fucking hell.

[Butch Bradford]

[Butch Bradford]

[William Munny]

[somuchyummy]

Fun OMG mock by Bucky Brooks out today has us holding steady at 11 and 23 - and Drake Maye falls all the way to us with that first pick. We then go Cooper DeJean at 23 - although Jerzhan Newton is still there to pick as well. Dreams can happen, right?

I never have understood why Bucky Brooks still does draft analysis.

Lets say the NFL draft has the order that Brooks has. Do you think the Denver Broncos sit at 12? The Oakland Raiders at 13? Hell the Saints and Seahawks at 14 and 16 would be seriously looking at picks 8 - 10 to move up to take a QB like Maye. I also don't think Maye gets past the Jets at #10.

There is too much QB need in the top 16 picks to make this scenario plausible.

Well, true. But that doesn't preclude the Vikings from moving up to 8-10 as well - costing us far less draft capital in the process than moving up to 4 or 5.

[mlhouse]

Fun OMG mock by Bucky Brooks out today has us holding steady at 11 and 23 - and Drake Maye falls all the way to us with that first pick. We then go Cooper DeJean at 23 - although Jerzhan Newton is still there to pick as well. Dreams can happen, right?

I never have understood why Bucky Brooks still does draft analysis.

Lets say the NFL draft has the order that Brooks has. Do you think the Denver Broncos sit at 12? The Oakland Raiders at 13? Hell the Saints and Seahawks at 14 and 16 would be seriously looking at picks 8 - 10 to move up to take a QB like Maye. I also don't think Maye gets past the Jets at #10.

There is too much QB need in the top 16 picks to make this scenario plausible.

Well, true. But that doesn't preclude the Vikings from moving up to 8-10 as well - costing us far less draft capital in the process than moving up to 4 or 5.

IT certainly doesn't, which is my point. And, if Denver or Oakland or New Orleans or Seattle can jump to 8, where is the optimal point to draft one of the top 4 quarterbacks? And, both the New York teams and the Titans are QB wild cards in the top ten of the draft. Maybe the Jets as an example, would not trade up to select one of these guys, but then if a QB they like falls to them at 10 maybe that is a draft bonus they did not expect and they can select Aaron Rodgers replacement.

When you make a trade up you are paying draft capital (and other assets) for two things.

First, you are paying for the higher level prospect. The value of a player a position N of the draft is going to be less than the value of a player in position N-1 e.g. the value of a player at position N=2 is less than the value of player at position N=1. Duh....

Second, you are paying an insurance cost in moving up to lock in a player that you want. Thats why teams will pay a cost to move up one spot in the draft from time to time.

And, you are usually paying both costs simultaneously.

If you want it guaranteed to select a top 4 QB in this draft you need to move into the top 5. And even that might not be a certainty.

[D_H]

Fun OMG mock by Bucky Brooks out today has us holding steady at 11 and 23 - and Drake Maye falls all the way to us with that first pick. We then go Cooper DeJean at 23 - although Jerzhan Newton is still there to pick as well. Dreams can happen, right?

I never have understood why Bucky Brooks still does draft analysis.

Lets say the NFL draft has the order that Brooks has. Do you think the Denver Broncos sit at 12? The Oakland Raiders at 13? Hell the Saints and Seahawks at 14 and 16 would be seriously looking at picks 8 - 10 to move up to take a QB like Maye. I also don't think Maye gets past the Jets at #10.

There is too much QB need in the top 16 picks to make this scenario plausible.

Mlhouse first claims he knows more about playing quarterback in the NFL than Kurt Warner! (who coincidentally did not have JJ McCarthy in his top five quarterbacks. Lol) now he knows more about NFL football than Bucky Brooks. Lololololo you can’t make it up kids it is simply astonishing.

[witljon]

I still don’t see the Patriots trading out of their spot.

[Butch Bradford]

I still don’t see the Patriots trading out of their spot.

Unless the price is right, of course.

In addition to our two first round draft picks this year, will Kwesi give up our 2025 first round pick and possibly a little more (e.g., third round pick) to move up to third overall? Only time will tell, Davey,

Kwesi and KOC need to know that QB #3 (presumably Maye) is worth the draft capital to move up, or do you do a deal with the Cardinals for QB #4 (presumably McCarthy) giving up a little less draft capital instead?

What would you do?

[mnbob70]

Kwesi and KOC need to know that QB #3 (presumably Maye) is worth the draft capital to move up, or do you do a deal with the Cardinals for QB #4 (presumably McCarthy) giving up a little less draft capital instead?

What would you do?

You only move up for the guy you've targeted all along. I don't believe the Vikings have two guys on their board that they covet that much.

[Butch Bradford]

Kwesi and KOC need to know that QB #3 (presumably Maye) is worth the draft capital to move up, or do you do a deal with the Cardinals for QB #4 (presumably McCarthy) giving up a little less draft capital instead?

What would you do?

You only move up for the guy you've targeted all along. I don't believe the Vikings have two guys on their board that they covet that much.

Based on what you know about KOC's offense, which QB prospect or prospects do you believe are the best fit for the Vikings?

[Tuck ya in]

April will be loooooong. There's so much agent meddling, smoke screens, crazy mocks, and b.s. out there before the draft. It seems as though there's likely only 2 realistic QB options for the Vikings this year, Maye or McCarthy. Maybe the least likely is to grab Nix later on.

I just hope whomever they get is their guy all along, with no settling so to speak. I'm just a fan who types on the internet, they are professional scouts(a part from Kwesi, hehe). I would try to get to 3 for Maye personally, but would be ok with JJ in the end to. I am a little hesitant to give up big draft capital, specifically when Kwesi has already blown some major picks in his tenure and we have areas of depletion because of that, but maybe the picks we theoretically will trade he would of screwed up on anyways, lol. So there is a positive in that scenario.

[mnbob70]

Kwesi and KOC need to know that QB #3 (presumably Maye) is worth the draft capital to move up, or do you do a deal with the Cardinals for QB #4 (presumably McCarthy) giving up a little less draft capital instead?

What would you do?

You only move up for the guy you've targeted all along. I don't believe the Vikings have two guys on their board that they covet that much.

Based on what you know about KOC's offense, which QB prospect or prospects do you believe are the best fit for the Vikings?

I don't want to pretend that I have the knowledge to answer your question, but based on public comments from KOC he has stated that he's looking for a QB who plays on schedule and can perform in a timing based offense.