KATs value

[DonaldDouchebag]

The future of this team is Ant, Jaden, Naz and friends.

I want NAW long-term, too.

I'm a huge NAW guy.

[shuttlesworth]

NAW is going to get a $20 million+/year offer-sheet in 2025. Naz probably will too. If the Wolves want to retain either of those guys long term (and I think they should retain both), they'll likely need to trade either Towns or McDaniels.

[Dan33185]

NAW is going to get a $20 million+/year offer-sheet in 2025. Naz probably will too. If the Wolves want to retain either of those guys long term (and I think they should retain both), they'll likely need to trade either Towns or McDaniels.

I wouldn't be opposed to both.

[Beef Supreme]

NAW is going to get a $20 million+/year offer-sheet in 2025. Naz probably will too. If the Wolves want to retain either of those guys long term (and I think they should retain both), they'll likely need to trade either Towns or McDaniels.

If McDaniels doesn’t pull his head out of his ass, he might have negative value considering that contract.


A long time between now and when this decision is to be made for him to figure it out, but it’s disappointing right now.

[HeHateMe]

NAW is going to get a $20 million+/year offer-sheet in 2025. Naz probably will too. If the Wolves want to retain either of those guys long term (and I think they should retain both), they'll likely need to trade either Towns or McDaniels.

This number seems a bit high on NAW. I see him definitely as a midlevel guy and maybe a little higher.

Naz they need to look at extending (if possible) this summer.

[focker]

You've got to keep Naz.

[Beef Supreme]

You've got to keep Naz.

If it’s all and only about money, then we’re fucked anyway. If this team is a title contender but new ownership won’t pay to keep it together, then there’s not much point in being a fan.


Look at title teams. They’re almost always way over the cap and into the lux.


In the last 20 years, 11 of the championship teams come from the top-5 payroll teams in the league. 17 of the 20 come from the top half. The other three were the San Antonio Spurs.



If we don’t pay, we get to be a fun feeder team for the real players at best.

[focker]

You've got to keep Naz.

If it’s all and only about money, then we’re fucked anyway. If this team is a title contender but new ownership won’t pay to keep it together, then there’s not much point in being a fan.


Look at title teams. They’re almost always way over the cap and into the lux.


In the last 20 years, 11 of the championship teams come from the top-5 payroll teams in the league. 17 of the 20 come from the top half. The other three were the San Antonio Spurs.



If we don’t pay, we get to be a fun feeder team for the real players at best.

Agreed. Hopefully the new owners realize what we have here and keep this group together for as long as possible. Maybe even add someone else to the mix.

[Beef Supreme]

You've got to keep Naz.

If it’s all and only about money, then we’re fucked anyway. If this team is a title contender but new ownership won’t pay to keep it together, then there’s not much point in being a fan.


Look at title teams. They’re almost always way over the cap and into the lux.


In the last 20 years, 11 of the championship teams come from the top-5 payroll teams in the league. 17 of the 20 come from the top half. The other three were the San Antonio Spurs.



If we don’t pay, we get to be a fun feeder team for the real players at best.

Agreed. Hopefully the new owners realize what we have here and keep this group together for as long as possible. Maybe even add someone else to the mix.

And when the team naturally crumbles eventually, then get cheap and stock picks for a year or three if you have to for the next run.

Big market teams like LA and Boston can afford to pay to compete every year. Small market teams have to go in cycles. I can accept that. But I cannot accept artificially shortening a cycle because you don’t want to pay for it. If that happens, we have shitty owners and might as well give up until ownership changes.

[HeHateMe]

You've got to keep Naz.

If it’s all and only about money, then we’re fucked anyway. If this team is a title contender but new ownership won’t pay to keep it together, then there’s not much point in being a fan.


Look at title teams. They’re almost always way over the cap and into the lux.


In the last 20 years, 11 of the championship teams come from the top-5 payroll teams in the league. 17 of the 20 come from the top half. The other three were the San Antonio Spurs.



If we don’t pay, we get to be a fun feeder team for the real players at best.

This is uncharted territory though for the new "aprons" in the luxury tax. I am 100% fine if the Wolves do not want to be a second apron team.. I wish the league would just move to a hard cap but I'm sure the players would never agree. Some of these max salaries are getting absolutely insane. 70-80 mil in the future for a star player?

If the Wolves want to retain Naz, they have to likely move a big salary out. It seems like KAT is the most obvious one, especially to bring back a combo of guards/wings/picks.

[Beef Supreme]

You've got to keep Naz.

If it’s all and only about money, then we’re fucked anyway. If this team is a title contender but new ownership won’t pay to keep it together, then there’s not much point in being a fan.


Look at title teams. They’re almost always way over the cap and into the lux.


In the last 20 years, 11 of the championship teams come from the top-5 payroll teams in the league. 17 of the 20 come from the top half. The other three were the San Antonio Spurs.



If we don’t pay, we get to be a fun feeder team for the real players at best.

This is uncharted territory though for the new "aprons" in the luxury tax. I am 100% fine if the Wolves do not want to be a second apron team.. I wish the league would just move to a hard cap but I'm sure the players would never agree. Some of these max salaries are getting absolutely insane. 70-80 mil in the future for a star player?

If the Wolves want to retain Naz, they have to likely move a big salary out. It seems like KAT is the most obvious one, especially to bring back a combo of guards/wings/picks.

You’re 100% cool if these mega rich dudes who print money don’t want to pay to keep a title contending team together?


I’m not. Fuck that.

[Lightning]

You’re 100% cool if these mega rich dudes who print money don’t want to pay to keep a title contending team together?


I’m not. Fuck that.

[HeHateMe]

If it’s all and only about money, then we’re fucked anyway. If this team is a title contender but new ownership won’t pay to keep it together, then there’s not much point in being a fan.


Look at title teams. They’re almost always way over the cap and into the lux.


In the last 20 years, 11 of the championship teams come from the top-5 payroll teams in the league. 17 of the 20 come from the top half. The other three were the San Antonio Spurs.



If we don’t pay, we get to be a fun feeder team for the real players at best.

This is uncharted territory though for the new "aprons" in the luxury tax. I am 100% fine if the Wolves do not want to be a second apron team.. I wish the league would just move to a hard cap but I'm sure the players would never agree. Some of these max salaries are getting absolutely insane. 70-80 mil in the future for a star player?

If the Wolves want to retain Naz, they have to likely move a big salary out. It seems like KAT is the most obvious one, especially to bring back a combo of guards/wings/picks.

You’re 100% cool if these mega rich dudes who print money don’t want to pay to keep a title contending team together?


I’m not. Fuck that.

I'm actually thinking/talking more about the league rules, not the money the owners spend or don't spend. Again, I'd rather just see a hard cap like the NFL has but this is clearly the league trying to get to one.

[Beef Supreme]

This is uncharted territory though for the new "aprons" in the luxury tax. I am 100% fine if the Wolves do not want to be a second apron team.. I wish the league would just move to a hard cap but I'm sure the players would never agree. Some of these max salaries are getting absolutely insane. 70-80 mil in the future for a star player?

If the Wolves want to retain Naz, they have to likely move a big salary out. It seems like KAT is the most obvious one, especially to bring back a combo of guards/wings/picks.

You’re 100% cool if these mega rich dudes who print money don’t want to pay to keep a title contending team together?


I’m not. Fuck that.

I'm actually thinking/talking more about the league rules, not the money the owners spend or don't spend. Again, I'd rather just see a hard cap like the NFL has but this is clearly the league trying to get to one.

Who cares? The premise is that we already have a team that can compete for the title. Who cares if we lose the MLE or whatever?

[HeHateMe]

You’re 100% cool if these mega rich dudes who print money don’t want to pay to keep a title contending team together?


I’m not. Fuck that.

I'm actually thinking/talking more about the league rules, not the money the owners spend or don't spend. Again, I'd rather just see a hard cap like the NFL has but this is clearly the league trying to get to one.

Who cares? The premise is that we already have a team that can compete for the title. Who cares if we lose the MLE or whatever?

I hope to win a title too. Who cares? I guess I do. Just a reminder...

What are the penalties for the first apron?

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

What are the penalties for the second apron?
All of the penalties for the first apron apply to the second apron as well, which is triggered when a team's salary exceeds $182.5 million. For the 2023-24 season, one additional penalty is added when crossing the second apron:

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

[Beef Supreme]

I'm actually thinking/talking more about the league rules, not the money the owners spend or don't spend. Again, I'd rather just see a hard cap like the NFL has but this is clearly the league trying to get to one.

Who cares? The premise is that we already have a team that can compete for the title. Who cares if we lose the MLE or whatever?

I hope to win a title too. Who cares? I guess I do. Just a reminder...

What are the penalties for the first apron?

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

What are the penalties for the second apron?
All of the penalties for the first apron apply to the second apron as well, which is triggered when a team's salary exceeds $182.5 million. For the 2023-24 season, one additional penalty is added when crossing the second apron:

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

All worthwhile reasons to avoid that if your team isn’t good.


But again, the premise is that the team is a championship contender. That is the goal. That is what you try to build. Who cares if you don’t have those options if you already have a contender? You want those options to build a contender. Break up a contender so you can get those options back to… maybe build a contender again?

Makes no sense.

[HeHateMe]

All worthwhile reasons to avoid that if your team isn’t good.


But again, the premise is that the team is a championship contender. That is the goal. That is what you try to build. Who cares if you don’t have those options if you already have a contender? You want those options to build a contender. Break up a contender so you can get those options back to… maybe build a contender again?

Makes no sense.

Fair point on the item if your team isn't good enough. I don't see this organization acting in the future like the Warriors and paying 100-200 mil a year in luxury penalties in addition to accepting the second apron restrictions. We will see!

Trade KAT, extend Naz!

[A$$MAN]

Who cares? The premise is that we already have a team that can compete for the title. Who cares if we lose the MLE or whatever?

I hope to win a title too. Who cares? I guess I do. Just a reminder...

What are the penalties for the first apron?

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

What are the penalties for the second apron?
All of the penalties for the first apron apply to the second apron as well, which is triggered when a team's salary exceeds $182.5 million. For the 2023-24 season, one additional penalty is added when crossing the second apron:

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

All worthwhile reasons to avoid that if your team isn’t good.


But again, the premise is that the team is a championship contender. That is the goal. That is what you try to build. Who cares if you don’t have those options if you already have a contender? You want those options to build a contender. Break up a contender so you can get those options back to… maybe build a contender again?

Makes no sense.

Absolutely. If your team is a contender, you keep them together and don't break it up over money. I never understood those owners wanting a professional sports team that pinched pennies and sucked year after year? What the fuck is that all about?

However, regarding the Wolves, how long are we serious contenders with the current squad? I think we probably have this year and next, then decisions will need to be made based on gobert and Conley getting older and probably less productive. I can't imagine extending gobert's contract when his current one is up, especially if we haven't won a championship. It will be interesting how leadership decides to move forward.

[Beef Supreme]

All worthwhile reasons to avoid that if your team isn’t good.


But again, the premise is that the team is a championship contender. That is the goal. That is what you try to build. Who cares if you don’t have those options if you already have a contender? You want those options to build a contender. Break up a contender so you can get those options back to… maybe build a contender again?

Makes no sense.

Fair point on the item if your team isn't good enough. I don't see this organization acting in the future like the Warriors and paying 100-200 mil a year in luxury penalties in addition to accepting the second apron restrictions. We will see!

Trade KAT, extend Naz!

That says it all.


You don’t see this organization pursuing greatness.



Fuck that.

[Beef Supreme]

I hope to win a title too. Who cares? I guess I do. Just a reminder...

What are the penalties for the first apron?

Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron

What are the penalties for the second apron?
All of the penalties for the first apron apply to the second apron as well, which is triggered when a team's salary exceeds $182.5 million. For the 2023-24 season, one additional penalty is added when crossing the second apron:

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

All worthwhile reasons to avoid that if your team isn’t good.


But again, the premise is that the team is a championship contender. That is the goal. That is what you try to build. Who cares if you don’t have those options if you already have a contender? You want those options to build a contender. Break up a contender so you can get those options back to… maybe build a contender again?

Makes no sense.

Absolutely. If your team is a contender, you keep them together and don't break it up over money. I never understood those owners wanting a professional sports team that pinched pennies and sucked year after year? What the fuck is that all about?

However, regarding the Wolves, how long are we serious contenders with the current squad? I think we probably have this year and next, then decisions will need to be made based on gobert and Conley getting older and probably less productive. I can't imagine extending gobert's contract when his current one is up, especially if we haven't won a championship. It will be interesting how leadership decides to move forward.

I don’t know how long we’re contenders. That’s not the premise. If there are real basketball reasons to make moves, make them. Not against that. But the premise of this discussion is about breaking up an active contender over money.


And if they do that, they can go fuck themselves. If they do that, this franchise will never amount to anything until they are gone.

[HeHateMe]

All worthwhile reasons to avoid that if your team isn’t good.


But again, the premise is that the team is a championship contender. That is the goal. That is what you try to build. Who cares if you don’t have those options if you already have a contender? You want those options to build a contender. Break up a contender so you can get those options back to… maybe build a contender again?

Makes no sense.

Fair point on the item if your team isn't good enough. I don't see this organization acting in the future like the Warriors and paying 100-200 mil a year in luxury penalties in addition to accepting the second apron restrictions. We will see!

Trade KAT, extend Naz!

That says it all.


You don’t see this organization pursuing greatness.



Fuck that.

How many owners do pay that much in luxury tax each year? No clue... my argument in this kat value thread though is I want Naz longterm... and I doubt this organization is going to pay him starter money to have him continue to back up KAT and Rudy.

[Beef Supreme]

Fair point on the item if your team isn't good enough. I don't see this organization acting in the future like the Warriors and paying 100-200 mil a year in luxury penalties in addition to accepting the second apron restrictions. We will see!

Trade KAT, extend Naz!

That says it all.


You don’t see this organization pursuing greatness.



Fuck that.

How many owners do pay that much in luxury tax each year? No clue... my argument in this kat value thread though is I want Naz longterm... and I doubt this organization is going to pay him starter money to have him continue to back up KAT and Rudy.

I don’t know.

How many owners break up contending teams over salary? I would guess not many.


You value Naz long-term and don’t want to lose him if it comes down to him or Towns. That’s a defendable position to take. Totally fine. And totally different from rejecting ownership that is too cheap to keep a title contending team together.

That’s inexcusable.

That’s Pohlad-level bullshit.

[HeHateMe]

I don’t know.

How many owners break up contending teams over salary? I would guess not many.


You value Naz long-term and don’t want to lose him if it comes down to him or Towns. That’s a defendable position to take. Totally fine. And totally different from rejecting ownership that is too cheap to keep a title contending team together.

That’s inexcusable.

That’s Pohlad-level bullshit.

Pohlad's are really really cheap... if they were the wolves owners I am not sure they'd spend up to the cap!

[Beef Supreme]

I don’t know.

How many owners break up contending teams over salary? I would guess not many.


You value Naz long-term and don’t want to lose him if it comes down to him or Towns. That’s a defendable position to take. Totally fine. And totally different from rejecting ownership that is too cheap to keep a title contending team together.

That’s inexcusable.

That’s Pohlad-level bullshit.

Pohlad's are really really cheap... if they were the wolves owners I am not sure they'd spend up to the cap!

Right. Exaggeration on my part, but you get the picture.

[kindman]

Kats value to us is much lower than to a team in need!

[somuchyummy]

We are 8-3 without KAT this year.

[salamander]

[populousample]

Not sure when/if KAT comes back but it would be nice to see him contribute to a deep playoff run. Would help his value.

[HeHateMe]

Not sure when/if KAT comes back but it would be nice to see him contribute to a deep playoff run. Would help his value.

I think his value will remain high.. he had a good season (when healthy). He can help a team that wants more talent... Wolves pivot to Naz and break up KAT's big contract to build around Ant, Naz and Jaden.

[weimy froob]

Not sure when/if KAT comes back but it would be nice to see him contribute to a deep playoff run. Would help his value.

I think his value will remain high.. he had a good season (when healthy). He can help a team that wants more talent... Wolves pivot to Naz and break up KAT's big contract to build around Ant, Naz and Jaden.

yep. they can sell hope. pretty sure they're going to pivot from him. too many injuries. they don't have to get "full value" for him. with the younger core you can start planning for a run with rudy and conley and then a potential run after them. rudy might have a lot of tread left on the tire too.