Sergeant Rubetube wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:51 pm
I guess this is what trending on NBA Tik Tok. Young NBA fans are tired of all the old heads talking about how the NBA sucks.
Article on Yahoo today about it and some funny as clips and content in here.
Your average player today is much more skilled than the average player back then. There aren’t a lot of Greg Ostertags and Frank Brikowskis in today’s game.
But because of all the time spent refining these other parts of the game (and the change in rules), nobody plays any defense anymore.
The influx of euros is a factor too. Those guys are usually very skilled, but aside from Gobert and Giannis, none of them play defense. The league has catered to that style of play to expand the brand globally. Good for the league, but none of them could have held up the way the game was played and called in the 90s. Luka would be a sideshow.
It’s a stylistic preference. Yes, you can find embarrassing clips of 90s ball. Good for you, kid. I find clips of guys shooting uncontested 3s because you can’t guard on the perimeter all game or throwing themselves into defenders to get free throws worse.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
Agreed. When we and our opponents start a recent game 6-34 from deep, you can't help but barf over how the game has degenerated. I'd actually be in favor of a hard cap on three attempts. Force the players to reutilize other parts of the game.
From last night - Boston vs Pho 70 threes - Chi vs LAC 70 threes - Dal vs Det 75 threes - Nets vs Cha 86 threes. I'm curious as to what the game would look like if you allowed each team just 6 threes per quarter - which would be 24 per team or a total of 48 per game. I don't know. 48 threes doesn't seem like a small number, but it would lop 25 to 30 some threes out of every game. I would be SO for that. Emphasize the entire game, not just one aspect.
Last edited by somuchyummy on Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:57 pm
Agreed. When we and our opponents start a recent game 6-34 from deep, you can't help but barf over how the game has degenerated. I'd actually be in favor of a hard cap on three attempts. Force the players to reutilize other parts of the game.
I always said 5 3 point attempts per quarter and if you don’t use them all in a quarter they can carry over. So 20 attempts a game which is more than plenty.
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:57 pm
Agreed. When we and our opponents start a recent game 6-34 from deep, you can't help but barf over how the game has degenerated. I'd actually be in favor of a hard cap on three attempts. Force the players to reutilize other parts of the game.
I'd like to see that as well.
It'd be akin to a homerun in slow pitch soft ball is an out after so many.
They could extend the line another 6', +/-, or after so many 3's (say 12 for an arbitrary number) they just count as 2 points.
The only thing about limiting the number of 3's, I could see teams still just bombing 3s to start a game so they can make sure to hit their quota.
There is good and bad if you want to try and compare the 90's game to today, hard to do because the defense didn't have the deck stacked against it in that time and the offense also wasn't allow the level of traveling and carrying et al. that is today. The official banning of handchecking changed the game if it were to come down to one thing, bigs became more skilled and guards became better shooters just simply from the lack of pressure they were under. HS and college ran more zone after the change and players extended range to shoot over it. In short with no more guys draped all over you, pushing tugging and no whistle, rules that were so beneficial to the defense good defenders became poor defenders after the change the game was bound to evolve into something different, perimeter oriented and guard dominated. The 90's are effectively a time capsule to a different game where guards couldn't move and have the freedom they have now. That said analytically the game has evolved as well and it is no secret you only need to shoot 33% from three opposed to 50% everywhere else, threes and layups is the right shot selection to amass the most possible points though wasn't really as feasible in the 90's or more of a wash because 33% was around league average and low volume. I would like to bring back some perimeter defense back to the game to balance things out, but honestly not to the point of the 80's and 90's where there is no perimeter game and it is basically a FT contest between who hits more of their 30 FTs which people kind of forget about that time...snooze.
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:57 pm
Agreed. When we and our opponents start a recent game 6-34 from deep, you can't help but barf over how the game has degenerated. I'd actually be in favor of a hard cap on three attempts. Force the players to reutilize other parts of the game.
From last night - Boston vs Pho 70 threes - Chi vs LAC 70 threes - Dal vs Det 75 threes - Nets vs Cha 86 threes. I'm curious as to what the game would look like if you allowed each team just 6 threes per quarter - which would be 24 per team or a total of 48 per game. I don't know. 48 threes doesn't seem like a small number, but it would lop 25 to 30 some threes out of every game. I would be SO for that. Emphasize the entire game, not just one aspect.
Like beer league softball?
4 dingers cap. After that it’s an out!
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
Also funny since random non fans have been complaining that there is no D, every move is a travel etc… since the mid 90s and I assume earlier (before I knew what was going on). In college in the early 2000s people would say “I only like college bball, nba sucks they don’t try” or whatever. Like watching dusty rychart was the epitome of elite ball lol.
Now a days it’s not that they don’t play D (though of course there are plenty of possessions of pure lapses and laziness) but they just can’t. Either due to the ridiculousness of 6’8-7’ guys being able to handle like a guard and hit running threes and fadeaways or that there is a whistle every time some teams drive. Half the league is Tom gugliotta size with guard shooting/skills. One half assed pick and a step back/one dribble and it’s a 38% chance at 3 pts.
I don't understand why this account is so popular. My brother sent me another clip from this guy yelling about Magic Johnson being trash because he missed a bunch of shots. WTF? Does this guy think the legends made every basket? i don't get it.
i'm not sure why everything must be pushed to its extreme. Of course we don't want 61-49 games. but 75 to 85 threes per night is the average? that's like watching a tennis match between two guys with massive serves who either get all aces or net serves. let's try to nudge the game back to a place where the full breadth of it can be appreciated.
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:55 pm
i'm not sure why everything must be pushed to its extreme. Of course we don't want 61-49 games. but 75 to 85 threes per night is the average? that's like watching a tennis match between two guys with massive serves who either get all aces or net serves. let's try to nudge the game back to a place where the full breadth of it can be appreciated.
100%
And this is what made the 90s great. There was a true contrast of styles. You had fast-paced flying teams like George Karl’s Sonics. You had the precision, efficiency (for its time), and toughness of Jerry Sloan’s Jazz. You had the Packers running Reggie Miller off 16 screens all over the court every play. You had teams with dominant bigs like the Magic, Rockets, Knicks, and Spurs. On the downside you had Mike Fretello’s Cavs taking the air out of the ball to ground all this excellence. And of course, you had Michael Jordan and the Bulls with the triangle offense ripping out hearts on a daily basis. It was diverse and interesting.
The NBA today is bland and homogenous by comparison. That’s part of the reason this Timberwolves squad is so interesting. The Towns/Gobert twin-towers look is something of an anachronism. It’s different from what other teams do. I hope it’s successful and will lead to the re-diversification of the league. It’s one reason why I don’t want to trade Towns for more conventional parts, unless we have to.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
when i did that bit of looking last night to see just really how god awful skewed it's gotten with the number of heaved threes (and i intended to use the word "heaved" with all its connotations), I couldn't believe it. Firmly in the camp now where I think the league (among other things) needs to institute a cap of how many threes each team can shoot per game. After they've used up their cap, they can keep shooting them - but they'll only be worth two points. 24 per team (6 per quarter) seems like plenty. no more than 48 in all - unless it goes to OT. OTs are five minutes long - you'd get 3 more. This 70 to 80 shit is not only madness, it's fucking boring - and sucks the life out of the rest of the game.
And it's possible to change the rules when something happens that impacts the game negatively. Why do you think they established the 3 second painted area? So some 7-2 guy couldn't just park under the rim. That started to happen, so they changed the rules - so the game wouldn't get ruined.
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:58 pm
when i did that bit of looking last night to see just really how god awful skewed it's gotten with the number of heaved threes (and i intended to use the word "heaved" with all its connotations), I couldn't believe it. Firmly in the camp now where I think the league (among other things) needs to institute a cap of how many threes each team can shoot per game. After they've used up their cap, they can keep shooting them - but they'll only be worth two points. 24 per team (6 per quarter) seems like plenty. no more than 48 in all - unless it goes to OT. OTs are five minutes long - you'd get 3 more. This 70 to 80 shit is not only madness, it's fucking boring - and sucks the life out of the rest of the game.
And it's possible to change the rules when something happens that impacts the game negatively. Why do you think they established the 3 second painted area? So some 7-2 guy couldn't just park under the rim. That started to happen, so they changed the rules - so the game wouldn't get ruined.
Capping it seems convoluted. Sometimes a shot is worth 3 and sometimes it’s worth 2? Same shot? I don’t like it.
Just let teams play defense again. That’s all you’ve got to do.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
but then you are leaving it in the hands of awfully arbitrary nba refs to make the right calls. I like a cap. hard rule - hard to fuck up. also, i'm not suggesting that they get 6 the first quarter -and the scorer/refs have to stop play to figure it out - rinse and repeat for the next three quarters. No. if a team wanted to burn all 24 of their threes in the first quarter, they could do that. once the 24 limit is hit - the official scorer informs the ref - the ref informs the teams - OK, from now on all of Team A's FGs are worth 2 points. Easy.
Last edited by somuchyummy on Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:58 pm
when i did that bit of looking last night to see just really how god awful skewed it's gotten with the number of heaved threes (and i intended to use the word "heaved" with all its connotations), I couldn't believe it. Firmly in the camp now where I think the league (among other things) needs to institute a cap of how many threes each team can shoot per game. After they've used up their cap, they can keep shooting them - but they'll only be worth two points. 24 per team (6 per quarter) seems like plenty. no more than 48 in all - unless it goes to OT. OTs are five minutes long - you'd get 3 more. This 70 to 80 shit is not only madness, it's fucking boring - and sucks the life out of the rest of the game.
And it's possible to change the rules when something happens that impacts the game negatively. Why do you think they established the 3 second painted area? So some 7-2 guy couldn't just park under the rim. That started to happen, so they changed the rules - so the game wouldn't get ruined.
The NBA is an absolute shit product right now but as popular as ever. The kids love seeing these NBA Jam scores.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
An idea I’ve had is to make all shooting fouls 2 fts. No more 3fts for fouling a 3pt shooter. Just 2. Like it used to be
I admit, 3fts for being fouled on a 3pt shot seems logical, but this would discourage shooters from trying to draw fouls on defenders by doing unnatural shooting things like flailing legs out etc and also reduce the penalty for aggressive D on the perimeter.
But wait… there’s more! Also, I mean all shooting fouls are 2fts. Even on a continuation make. This means attacking the rim can now pay off more than a 3pt shot. You can get 4pt plays. Sure, you could get a 5pt play by hitting a 3 and getting fouled, but that’s really rare.
This makes getting to the goal more valuable. Basketball is the only sport that you aren’t really incentivized to get close to the goal. In football you want to get into the end zone. If you settle for a long score, you get less. In hockey, all goals count the same, but you want to attack the net. Most goals are last touched pretty close to the net. Only basketball doesn’t require attacking the goal to score most efficiently. That’s fucked up and that’s a big reason the game isn’t as aesthetically pleasing to me as it used to be.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
somuchyummy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:58 pm
when i did that bit of looking last night to see just really how god awful skewed it's gotten with the number of heaved threes (and i intended to use the word "heaved" with all its connotations), I couldn't believe it. Firmly in the camp now where I think the league (among other things) needs to institute a cap of how many threes each team can shoot per game. After they've used up their cap, they can keep shooting them - but they'll only be worth two points. 24 per team (6 per quarter) seems like plenty. no more than 48 in all - unless it goes to OT. OTs are five minutes long - you'd get 3 more. This 70 to 80 shit is not only madness, it's fucking boring - and sucks the life out of the rest of the game.
And it's possible to change the rules when something happens that impacts the game negatively. Why do you think they established the 3 second painted area? So some 7-2 guy couldn't just park under the rim. That started to happen, so they changed the rules - so the game wouldn't get ruined.
The NBA is an absolute shit product right now but as popular as ever. The kids love seeing these NBA Jam scores.
I understand this probably won't happen because the NBA has gone all in on being entertainment. Catch a T-shirt shot from a cannon!!! But we're talking from a basketball lover's sense of what the game should be. What could be done to save the game from the league. Not so little Billy can get a stuffed Crunch doll and a lollypop in the shape of Adam Silver's bald head.
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:24 pm
An idea I’ve had is to make all shooting fouls 2 fts. No more 3fts for fouling a 3pt shooter. Just 2. Like it used to be
I admit, 3fts for being fouled on a 3pt shot seems logical, but this would discourage shooters from trying to draw fouls on defenders by doing unnatural shooting things like flailing legs out etc and also reduce the penalty for aggressive D on the perimeter.
But wait… there’s more! Also, I mean all shooting fouls are 2fts. Even on a continuation make. This means attacking the rim can now pay off more than a 3pt shot. You can get 4pt plays. Sure, you could get a 5pt play by hitting a 3 and getting fouled, but that’s really rare.
This makes getting to the goal more valuable. Basketball is the only sport that you aren’t really incentivized to get close to the goal. In football you want to get into the end zone. If you settle for a long score, you get less. In hockey, all goals count the same, but you want to attack the net. Most goals are last touched pretty close to the net. Only basketball doesn’t require attacking the goal to score most efficiently. That’s fucked up and that’s a big reason the game isn’t as aesthetically pleasing to me as it used to be.
I think the free throw concept is an intriguing idea...but allowing teams to play fucking defense is where any changes should start.
It makes sense that an entire generation of pussies wouldn't like to watch grown men play basketball where there's no question about why it's called a contact sport.
Don't let these pussies see what it was like in the 80s. They couldn't handle it.
Are we? Because I get tagged with Neverending videos of young kids watching 80s and 90s basketball and talking about how much they like it.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
The first Timberwolf. Teen wolf was his documentary but he was actually that kid from Russia that was raised by the Direwolves, he also played in the late 80’s, maybe 90. He used to howl like a werewolf every-time he shot. Under rated carnivore.
