Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

A place to discuss the MN Vikings
User avatar
RubeTube
***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
Posts: 30296
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:10 pm

Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by RubeTube » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:41 am

Kirk Cousins? Naw.

The last FIVE years of 1st round draft picks consist of....

Treadwell
Bradford
Hughes
Dingleberry

Rick finally hit on something in Jefferson.

Gladney looks like another Rick/Zim special that will take 3 years to become mediocre.


Ish!


"Top 12 GM" :lol:

Go look up Ted Thompson's 13 years in GB. Playoff wins, division titles, wins.

Why the hell would GB ever move on?!?

Meanwhile Rick has been here a decade. Never seen the playoffs in back to back years, has two playoff wins and two division titles with a .500 record. :lol:
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X

RIP George Floyd

User avatar
RubeTube
***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
Posts: 30296
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by RubeTube » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:53 am

The second picks of these years are as follows...

Mack Alexander
Pat Elflein
O'Neill (The only good player we got that Mlhouse couldn't fathom we drafted) lulz
Smith

That's two turds, a decent player and a guy that our coaches can't figure out how to use so we are still throwing 8 yard passes to the plodding Rudolph.

But Rick stay winning in the draft!

I really enjoyed giving up a early 2nd round pick for a late 3rd rounder this coming draft too.

Spending draft picks on a K to cut him after week #2 of his rookie year and trading picks for a K/P that didn't make it through the preseason.

FLUSH THIS FUCKING SHIT!!!
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X

RIP George Floyd

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:51 am

1. Wilf's
2. Zimmer
3. RS
4. Cousins (mostly contract related but also performance)
5. Fan base (which goes back to Wilf's)

User avatar
Oscar
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:05 pm
Location: Garbage Can

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Oscar » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:59 am

Rick Spielman is turning the corner on building a Super Bowl roster!

#Moist

:lol: :lol: :lol:
When Your Window Of Opportunity Is Making The Playoffs Every Other Year, Your Window Is Fucking Broken.

Fire Spielman!

Fire Zimmer!

Still can’t start a thread on this forum! Bozo’s hate the truth!

User avatar
Dr. Linux
Posts: 4183
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:28 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Dr. Linux » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:24 am

Can't say I've been too big a fan of his. We have hit on some pretty sweet players too. Ultimately you should be getting more out of the draft. Rick is like a blind squirrel?
--
Got Grainy?

User avatar
Night Train
***Official Gibby Award Winner - October 2018***
Posts: 19658
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: Corner of 14th and Oak

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Night Train » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:48 am

Because in 1961 the NFL expanded and gave Minnesota a team. It's been here ever since.
I am Nobody.

Minnesota - Mired in Mediocrity

User avatar
laX
Posts: 7588
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:49 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by laX » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:29 am

i think it's because the fans are awful and they deserve this.
))<>((

mlhouse
Posts: 14284
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by mlhouse » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:48 pm

And yet, with all of this disaster, the Vikings have had the 12th best record in the NFL over the past decade and have built their team almost exclusively via the draft or UDFA they originally signed.

The biggest problem the Vikings have had over the past is that they have had significant injuries at the quarterback position, with Bridgewater's injury having the most impact as that cost us not only the first round pick we used to draft Teddy, but another to find a replacement.

THe fact is, the most significant similarities about the teams that have had better records over the past decade is that they have had top level quarterback play and those quarterbacks did not get injured (and if they did, they returned from their injury). Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees. If the Vikings would have got that level of consistent, uninjured quarterback play then they would rank even higher.

Has Rick Spielman made mistakes? Certainly. All GMs do. But he has also developed a contending team, from top to bottom, using all levels of personnel options.

Saying otherwise is nothing but a complete crock.

An aside note: I did not give the Vikings a very good draft grade on the Brian O'Neil pick that is for sure. Unlike you, I actually watched O'Neil play before he was drafted and his results were very mixed at best. He also was terrible in the Senior Bowl practices and game. But, if you read what I wrote about the pick, I did note that I hated the way Pitt's offensive line was coached and believed O'Neil could improve with professional coaching. I also noted that this was a reach pick that Spielman was forced to make because of the run of oLine in the early 2nd round made the pickings at the position rather limited.

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:56 pm

12th best :naners:

PackIsBack
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:51 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by PackIsBack » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:25 pm

JPM wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:56 pm
12th best :naners:
Hey, that's top 38% of the NFL. ELITE!

hategreenticemase
Posts: 8409
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by hategreenticemase » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:52 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:48 pm
And yet, with all of this disaster, the Vikings have had the 12th best record in the NFL over the past decade and have built their team almost exclusively via the draft or UDFA they originally signed.

The biggest problem the Vikings have had over the past is that they have had significant injuries at the quarterback position, with Bridgewater's injury having the most impact as that cost us not only the first round pick we used to draft Teddy, but another to find a replacement.

THe fact is, the most significant similarities about the teams that have had better records over the past decade is that they have had top level quarterback play and those quarterbacks did not get injured (and if they did, they returned from their injury). Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees. If the Vikings would have got that level of consistent, uninjured quarterback play then they would rank even higher.

Has Rick Spielman made mistakes? Certainly. All GMs do. But he has also developed a contending team, from top to bottom, using all levels of personnel options.

Saying otherwise is nothing but a complete crock.

An aside note: I did not give the Vikings a very good draft grade on the Brian O'Neil pick that is for sure. Unlike you, I actually watched O'Neil play before he was drafted and his results were very mixed at best. He also was terrible in the Senior Bowl practices and game. But, if you read what I wrote about the pick, I did note that I hated the way Pitt's offensive line was coached and believed O'Neil could improve with professional coaching. I also noted that this was a reach pick that Spielman was forced to make because of the run of oLine in the early 2nd round made the pickings at the position rather limited.


I love you keep touting this record, which of course, is skewed by a 13-3 season, and never address the obvious absolutely no brainer reasons why the guy should have been fired years ago such as his qb bungling and the atrocity that is allowing a team to have one unit ruin its season for 6 straight years.

Are you and Ash cousins of the guy? :lol:

User avatar
Ash Ketchum
Posts: 7207
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Ash Ketchum » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:59 pm

I’m not dead set against replacing Spielman, but it would matter to me who the replacement is.

Are you bringing in Kevin Colbert’s right hand man from Pittsburgh? Sure, sign me up.

I’m just not willing to blindly go with “ANYONE is better than Rick” like some of you are. That line of thinking lacks any sort of logic because, despite the knee-jerk experts pointing to the mistakes Rick has made, the fact remains that the Vikings could DEFINITELY do worse than Rick.

hategreenticemase
Posts: 8409
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by hategreenticemase » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:19 pm

Ash Ketchum wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:59 pm
I’m not dead set against replacing Spielman, but it would matter to me who the replacement is.

Are you bringing in Kevin Colbert’s right hand man from Pittsburgh? Sure, sign me up.

I’m just not willing to blindly go with “ANYONE is better than Rick” like some of you are. That line of thinking lacks any sort of logic because, despite the knee-jerk experts pointing to the mistakes Rick has made, the fact remains that the Vikings could DEFINITELY do worse than Rick.
Of course the next guy could be worse. You own a business and an employee steals 20 bucks a week from you, do you not fire because next guy could steal $100? Does he deserve to be fired or not? I share your cobcern about the next guy,, but the rest is spinning away from the topic.

mlhouse
Posts: 14284
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by mlhouse » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:19 pm

hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:52 pm
mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:48 pm
And yet, with all of this disaster, the Vikings have had the 12th best record in the NFL over the past decade and have built their team almost exclusively via the draft or UDFA they originally signed.

The biggest problem the Vikings have had over the past is that they have had significant injuries at the quarterback position, with Bridgewater's injury having the most impact as that cost us not only the first round pick we used to draft Teddy, but another to find a replacement.

THe fact is, the most significant similarities about the teams that have had better records over the past decade is that they have had top level quarterback play and those quarterbacks did not get injured (and if they did, they returned from their injury). Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees. If the Vikings would have got that level of consistent, uninjured quarterback play then they would rank even higher.

Has Rick Spielman made mistakes? Certainly. All GMs do. But he has also developed a contending team, from top to bottom, using all levels of personnel options.

Saying otherwise is nothing but a complete crock.

An aside note: I did not give the Vikings a very good draft grade on the Brian O'Neil pick that is for sure. Unlike you, I actually watched O'Neil play before he was drafted and his results were very mixed at best. He also was terrible in the Senior Bowl practices and game. But, if you read what I wrote about the pick, I did note that I hated the way Pitt's offensive line was coached and believed O'Neil could improve with professional coaching. I also noted that this was a reach pick that Spielman was forced to make because of the run of oLine in the early 2nd round made the pickings at the position rather limited.


I love you keep touting this record, which of course, is skewed by a 13-3 season, and never address the obvious absolutely no brainer reasons why the guy should have been fired years ago such as his qb bungling and the atrocity that is allowing a team to have one unit ruin its season for 6 straight years.

Are you and Ash cousins of the guy? :lol:
And how did he "bungle" the QB situation? IF Teddy doesn't blow out his knee to the point of death he would have been our QB for quite some time.

Then, coming off an 11-5 season and having an elite defense do you go into the season with a backup QB (Shaun Hill for christ sakes) or do you make a QB move. I make the QB move. THen even that QB is injured and you ahve to go with another backup QB in Case Keenum who put in one of the top all time backup QB performances in NFL history. You can use hindsight to state the Cousins signing, but in 2018 he had a tremendous year statistically but instead upon building on the Cousins-Diggs-Thielen dynamic, Zimmer pulled back the reigns and went conservative (and we had a playoff season at 10-6).

The key to winning is having a high end QB. There are just a few of those in the league. And if your above average QB is hurt, it causes huge problems.

Listen, I am all for criticizing Spielman for things he deserves criticism for. I certainly have done so and usually I am right (for example in the 2019 draft wouldn't you rather of done my plan of trading back and taking Jawaan Taylor or Cody Ford and then select Eric McCoy, the two best offensive linemen from that draft rather than staying at 18 and drafting Bradbury and then Irv Smith? Unlike most of the draft criticism of Spielman, I said this at the time not well after when I can cherrypick the available players).

But it is undeniable that Spielman built a team taht was a solid contender. But in the NFL it is very hard to maintain that unless you ahve the HOF level QB and some good injury luck.

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:24 pm

Contenders don't get blown out in playoff games.

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:26 pm

Pretenders do.

Oriole81
Posts: 5302
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Oriole81 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:33 pm

JPM wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:26 pm
Pretenders do.
I agree, though I would say that's more an indictment on Zimmer vs Spielman
2020 All Time NBA Draft

A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis

hategreenticemase
Posts: 8409
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by hategreenticemase » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:46 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:19 pm
hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:52 pm
mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:48 pm
And yet, with all of this disaster, the Vikings have had the 12th best record in the NFL over the past decade and have built their team almost exclusively via the draft or UDFA they originally signed.

The biggest problem the Vikings have had over the past is that they have had significant injuries at the quarterback position, with Bridgewater's injury having the most impact as that cost us not only the first round pick we used to draft Teddy, but another to find a replacement.

THe fact is, the most significant similarities about the teams that have had better records over the past decade is that they have had top level quarterback play and those quarterbacks did not get injured (and if they did, they returned from their injury). Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees. If the Vikings would have got that level of consistent, uninjured quarterback play then they would rank even higher.

Has Rick Spielman made mistakes? Certainly. All GMs do. But he has also developed a contending team, from top to bottom, using all levels of personnel options.

Saying otherwise is nothing but a complete crock.

An aside note: I did not give the Vikings a very good draft grade on the Brian O'Neil pick that is for sure. Unlike you, I actually watched O'Neil play before he was drafted and his results were very mixed at best. He also was terrible in the Senior Bowl practices and game. But, if you read what I wrote about the pick, I did note that I hated the way Pitt's offensive line was coached and believed O'Neil could improve with professional coaching. I also noted that this was a reach pick that Spielman was forced to make because of the run of oLine in the early 2nd round made the pickings at the position rather limited.


I love you keep touting this record, which of course, is skewed by a 13-3 season, and never address the obvious absolutely no brainer reasons why the guy should have been fired years ago such as his qb bungling and the atrocity that is allowing a team to have one unit ruin its season for 6 straight years.

Are you and Ash cousins of the guy? :lol:
And how did he "bungle" the QB situation? IF Teddy doesn't blow out his knee to the point of death he would have been our QB for quite some time.

Then, coming off an 11-5 season and having an elite defense do you go into the season with a backup QB (Shaun Hill for christ sakes) or do you make a QB move. I make the QB move. THen even that QB is injured and you ahve to go with another backup QB in Case Keenum who put in one of the top all time backup QB performances in NFL history. You can use hindsight to state the Cousins signing, but in 2018 he had a tremendous year statistically but instead upon building on the Cousins-Diggs-Thielen dynamic, Zimmer pulled back the reigns and went conservative (and we had a playoff season at 10-6).

The key to winning is having a high end QB. There are just a few of those in the league. And if your above average QB is hurt, it causes huge problems.

Listen, I am all for criticizing Spielman for things he deserves criticism for. I certainly have done so and usually I am right (for example in the 2019 draft wouldn't you rather of done my plan of trading back and taking Jawaan Taylor or Cody Ford and then select Eric McCoy, the two best offensive linemen from that draft rather than staying at 18 and drafting Bradbury and then Irv Smith? Unlike most of the draft criticism of Spielman, I said this at the time not well after when I can cherrypick the available players).

But it is undeniable that Spielman built a team taht was a solid contender. But in the NFL it is very hard to maintain that unless you ahve the HOF level QB and some good injury luck.
How did he bungled it? Are you fn serious? :lol:

Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years. Teddie was some bad luck, but do we think Teddie is an upper echelon qb? I don't, and injury had nothing to do with that. Then, pre injury we couldn't even honestly evaluate him because the trash ol your boy put in front of him.

You bring up Shaun Hill, how about that as another example? For F sakes half the time our back up qb wasn't even on the roster til mid Aug. Go look over some of the garbage we have had for backups with no plan at all.

Trading for Bradford. Signing the most ol dependant good qb of all time and then not bothering to you know, give him a quality ol?

You keep laughingly referencing the "12th best record" nonsense. I already proved that is more due to Zim than RS. For God sakes all one has to do is look at the qbs Zim has won with, including Case fn Keenum.

Can I stop now, I'm a little winded. :lol:

mlhouse
Posts: 14284
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by mlhouse » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:54 pm

hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:46 pm


How did he bungled it? Are you fn serious? :lol:

Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years. Teddie was some bad luck, but do we think Teddie is an upper echelon qb? I don't, and injury had nothing to do with that. Then, pre injury we couldn't even honestly evaluate him because the trash ol your boy put in front of him.

You bring up Shaun Hill, how about that as another example? For F sakes half the time our back up qb wasn't even on the roster til mid Aug. Go look over some of the garbage we have had for backups with no plan at all.

Trading for Bradford. Signing the most ol dependant good qb of all time and then not bothering to you know, give him a quality ol?

You keep laughingly referencing the "12th best record" nonsense. I already proved that is more due to Zim than RS. For God sakes all one has to do is look at the qbs Zim has won with, including Case fn Keenum.

Can I stop now, I'm a little winded. :lol:
Claim: "Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years."

While this isn't any defense of the Christian Ponder draft pick, a pick I disliked at the time (I would have traded down and preferred Andy Dalton >>> Christian Ponder) claiming this set the franchise back multiple fucking years is a complete falsehood.

In Ponder's rookie season the team was 3-13, but Donovan McNabb was the starter for the first 6 games of the season and the team went 1-5. In the middle sections of the season when Ponder became the rookie starter Adrian Peterson was having nagging injuries and missed several games.

In Ponder's 2nd season the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Of course, this team was built on Adrian Peterson running the ball but Ponder played well at times, including the last game of the season vs. the Packers. WHo knows what woudl have happened if he would have started the encore game in the playoffs against the Packers instead of Joe Webb.

Ponder's 3rd season he only started 9 games due to injury. Peterson only rushed for 1,266 yards (in 14 games) versus 2,097 the year before. But what really killed the team in Leslie Frazier's last season as a head coach was the defense. The offense was in the middle of the pack in points scored (with Ponder and Cassell as QBs), 8th in rushing and even 23rd in passing yards, but our defense was 32nd in points given up. 31st in pass defense. The defense gave up 30 or more points in 8 games.

So, claiming that Ponder set the team back multiple years is completey wrong.

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:00 pm

He also claims Chilly set the back years too so there is that.

hategreenticemase
Posts: 8409
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by hategreenticemase » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:54 pm
hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:46 pm


How did he bungled it? Are you fn serious? :lol:

Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years. Teddie was some bad luck, but do we think Teddie is an upper echelon qb? I don't, and injury had nothing to do with that. Then, pre injury we couldn't even honestly evaluate him because the trash ol your boy put in front of him.

You bring up Shaun Hill, how about that as another example? For F sakes half the time our back up qb wasn't even on the roster til mid Aug. Go look over some of the garbage we have had for backups with no plan at all.

Trading for Bradford. Signing the most ol dependant good qb of all time and then not bothering to you know, give him a quality ol?

You keep laughingly referencing the "12th best record" nonsense. I already proved that is more due to Zim than RS. For God sakes all one has to do is look at the qbs Zim has won with, including Case fn Keenum.

Can I stop now, I'm a little winded. :lol:
Claim: "Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years."

While this isn't any defense of the Christian Ponder draft pick, a pick I disliked at the time (I would have traded down and preferred Andy Dalton >>> Christian Ponder) claiming this set the franchise back multiple fucking years is a complete falsehood.

In Ponder's rookie season the team was 3-13, but Donovan McNabb was the starter for the first 6 games of the season and the team went 1-5. In the middle sections of the season when Ponder became the rookie starter Adrian Peterson was having nagging injuries and missed several games.

In Ponder's 2nd season the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Of course, this team was built on Adrian Peterson running the ball but Ponder played well at times, including the last game of the season vs. the Packers. WHo knows what woudl have happened if he would have started the encore game in the playoffs against the Packers instead of Joe Webb.

Ponder's 3rd season he only started 9 games due to injury. Peterson only rushed for 1,266 yards (in 14 games) versus 2,097 the year before. But what really killed the team in Leslie Frazier's last season as a head coach was the defense. The offense was in the middle of the pack in points scored (with Ponder and Cassell as QBs), 8th in rushing and even 23rd in passing yards, but our defense was 32nd in points given up. 31st in pass defense. The defense gave up 30 or more points in 8 games.

So, claiming that Ponder set the team back multiple years is completey wrong.
Good Lord. The lengths you will go to to defend a silly take is absurd.

He was a terrible fucking qb, period. In spite of that, somehow, we won 10 games. What do we do with an avg qb? Wasted year. 3 seasons wasted on a bad qb, and a high draft choice gone. Now, we have to spend another 1st rounder in year 4 on a qb.

How you can possibly defend that drafting Ponder wasted several years ia beyond me.

User avatar
Beef Supreme
Posts: 31553
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:49 pm
Location: House of Representin'

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Beef Supreme » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:34 pm

Okay. I did it. I looked up Ted Thompson’s 13 years in GB.

Here’s his 1st round picks:

Aaron Rodgers - this is really the only one that matters.
AJ Hawk
Justin Harrell
BJ Raji
Clay Mathews III
Brian Bulaga
Derrick Sherrod
Nick Perry
Datone Jones
Ha-Ha Clinton Dix
Damarious Randall
Kenny Clarke
Jaire Alexander
Rashan Gary
Darnell Savage Jr.
Jordan Love


Rodgers, Mathews, Bulaga. The rest are just guys. Alexander is pretty good too. Raji had a moment or two, but nobody remembers.
“Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force...Against stupidity we are defenseless." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:00 pm

hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm
mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:54 pm
hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:46 pm


How did he bungled it? Are you fn serious? :lol:

Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years. Teddie was some bad luck, but do we think Teddie is an upper echelon qb? I don't, and injury had nothing to do with that. Then, pre injury we couldn't even honestly evaluate him because the trash ol your boy put in front of him.

You bring up Shaun Hill, how about that as another example? For F sakes half the time our back up qb wasn't even on the roster til mid Aug. Go look over some of the garbage we have had for backups with no plan at all.

Trading for Bradford. Signing the most ol dependant good qb of all time and then not bothering to you know, give him a quality ol?

You keep laughingly referencing the "12th best record" nonsense. I already proved that is more due to Zim than RS. For God sakes all one has to do is look at the qbs Zim has won with, including Case fn Keenum.

Can I stop now, I'm a little winded. :lol:
Claim: "Ponder set the franchise back multiple fn years."

While this isn't any defense of the Christian Ponder draft pick, a pick I disliked at the time (I would have traded down and preferred Andy Dalton >>> Christian Ponder) claiming this set the franchise back multiple fucking years is a complete falsehood.

In Ponder's rookie season the team was 3-13, but Donovan McNabb was the starter for the first 6 games of the season and the team went 1-5. In the middle sections of the season when Ponder became the rookie starter Adrian Peterson was having nagging injuries and missed several games.

In Ponder's 2nd season the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs. Of course, this team was built on Adrian Peterson running the ball but Ponder played well at times, including the last game of the season vs. the Packers. WHo knows what woudl have happened if he would have started the encore game in the playoffs against the Packers instead of Joe Webb.

Ponder's 3rd season he only started 9 games due to injury. Peterson only rushed for 1,266 yards (in 14 games) versus 2,097 the year before. But what really killed the team in Leslie Frazier's last season as a head coach was the defense. The offense was in the middle of the pack in points scored (with Ponder and Cassell as QBs), 8th in rushing and even 23rd in passing yards, but our defense was 32nd in points given up. 31st in pass defense. The defense gave up 30 or more points in 8 games.

So, claiming that Ponder set the team back multiple years is completey wrong.
Good Lord. The lengths you will go to to defend a silly take is absurd.

He was a terrible fucking qb, period. In spite of that, somehow, we won 10 games. What do we do with an avg qb? Wasted year. 3 seasons wasted on a bad qb, and a high draft choice gone. Now, we have to spend another 1st rounder in year 4 on a qb.

How you can possibly defend that drafting Ponder wasted several years ia beyond me.
he's actually spot F'n on.

mlhouse
Posts: 14284
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by mlhouse » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:49 pm

hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm

Good Lord. The lengths you will go to to defend a silly take is absurd.

He was a terrible fucking qb, period. In spite of that, somehow, we won 10 games. What do we do with an avg qb? Wasted year. 3 seasons wasted on a bad qb, and a high draft choice gone. Now, we have to spend another 1st rounder in year 4 on a qb.

How you can possibly defend that drafting Ponder wasted several years ia beyond me.
YOu are the expert of silly takes for sure. But, you did not say that Ponder was a terrible fucking quarterback, period or otherwise. YOU SAID HE SET THE FRANCHISE BACK FOR FUCKING YEARS. He didn't.

The Vikings made the playoffs in his first full year of starting (and he showed enough in that season and his rookie year that made the decision to move forward reasonable). And there was a bad season in 2013, but that was because the defense was at the bottom of the league. They hired Zimmer who fixed the defense, drafted Teddy, and the team was righted to at least a level of playoff caliber teams. That is undeniable.

Lastly, I am not defending him drafting Ponder. I don't know how many times I can say I hated the fucking pick. I thought Andy Dalton was a much superior quarterback prospect. I thought Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet were at least equal prospect. I trade down at least once to later in the first. If they had such a hard on for Ponder and he was selected ahead of them, big deal. Andy Dalton plus the value you got for trading down is much more valuable. (Go find the KFAN archives and you will read this take from that draft night).

I believe that this is the draft that converted Rick Spielman into a "value based" drafter. After the 2011 draft he became much more active in trading up and down in the draft. IN fact, in the 2012 and 2014 draft he acquired a 2012 4th, 5th, and 7th for trading down from 3 to 4 and a 2014 5th from Cleveland just by moving down one spot in the first with Cleveland. Of course, nothing infuriates the Spielman bashers more than getting extra assets for nothing!

hategreenticemase
Posts: 8409
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:34 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by hategreenticemase » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:14 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:49 pm
hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm

Good Lord. The lengths you will go to to defend a silly take is absurd.

He was a terrible fucking qb, period. In spite of that, somehow, we won 10 games. What do we do with an avg qb? Wasted year. 3 seasons wasted on a bad qb, and a high draft choice gone. Now, we have to spend another 1st rounder in year 4 on a qb.

How you can possibly defend that drafting Ponder wasted several years ia beyond me.
YOu are the expert of silly takes for sure. But, you did not say that Ponder was a terrible fucking quarterback, period or otherwise. YOU SAID HE SET THE FRANCHISE BACK FOR FUCKING YEARS. He didn't.

The Vikings made the playoffs in his first full year of starting (and he showed enough in that season and his rookie year that made the decision to move forward reasonable). And there was a bad season in 2013, but that was because the defense was at the bottom of the league. They hired Zimmer who fixed the defense, drafted Teddy, and the team was righted to at least a level of playoff caliber teams. That is undeniable.

Lastly, I am not defending him drafting Ponder. I don't know how many times I can say I hated the fucking pick. I thought Andy Dalton was a much superior quarterback prospect. I thought Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet were at least equal prospect. I trade down at least once to later in the first. If they had such a hard on for Ponder and he was selected ahead of them, big deal. Andy Dalton plus the value you got for trading down is much more valuable. (Go find the KFAN archives and you will read this take from that draft night).

I believe that this is the draft that converted Rick Spielman into a "value based" drafter. After the 2011 draft he became much more active in trading up and down in the draft. IN fact, in the 2012 and 2014 draft he acquired a 2012 4th, 5th, and 7th for trading down from 3 to 4 and a 2014 5th from Cleveland just by moving down one spot in the first with Cleveland. Of course, nothing infuriates the Spielman bashers more than getting extra assets for nothing!
Dude, you are a treat. With a terrible qb they were 10-6 and made the playoffs. Thats a lost year, you know, because WTF would they have done with quality qb play???? How come you didn't answer that question? Or that we wasted 3 years on a bad qb, but somehow that doesn't set the franchise back? Are you out of your freaking mind? :lol:

Which of these facts would you like to dispute?

1. Zimmer got the team to be a top 5 defense consistently
2. Zimmer has either made the playoffs or been close to playoffs every year after his first.
3. Zimmer has had either poor qb play or very average qb play in all but one of those years.

But you can't see how RS has bungled the qb position. Yeah, ok. 😀

User avatar
RubeTube
***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
Posts: 30296
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by RubeTube » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:27 pm

Beef Supreme wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:34 pm
Okay. I did it. I looked up Ted Thompson’s 13 years in GB.

Here’s his 1st round picks:

Aaron Rodgers - this is really the only one that matters.
AJ Hawk
Justin Harrell
BJ Raji
Clay Mathews III
Brian Bulaga
Derrick Sherrod
Nick Perry
Datone Jones
Ha-Ha Clinton Dix
Damarious Randall
Kenny Clarke
Jaire Alexander
Rashan Gary
Darnell Savage Jr.
Jordan Love


Rodgers, Mathews, Bulaga. The rest are just guys. Alexander is pretty good too. Raji had a moment or two, but nobody remembers.
That's the point, you can look at the names but they got results.

Really fun looking at draft names and never winning. :naners:
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X

RIP George Floyd

JPM
Formerly Clarkgriswald
Posts: 2817
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by JPM » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:35 pm

hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:14 pm
mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:49 pm
hategreenticemase wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm

Good Lord. The lengths you will go to to defend a silly take is absurd.

He was a terrible fucking qb, period. In spite of that, somehow, we won 10 games. What do we do with an avg qb? Wasted year. 3 seasons wasted on a bad qb, and a high draft choice gone. Now, we have to spend another 1st rounder in year 4 on a qb.

How you can possibly defend that drafting Ponder wasted several years ia beyond me.
YOu are the expert of silly takes for sure. But, you did not say that Ponder was a terrible fucking quarterback, period or otherwise. YOU SAID HE SET THE FRANCHISE BACK FOR FUCKING YEARS. He didn't.

The Vikings made the playoffs in his first full year of starting (and he showed enough in that season and his rookie year that made the decision to move forward reasonable). And there was a bad season in 2013, but that was because the defense was at the bottom of the league. They hired Zimmer who fixed the defense, drafted Teddy, and the team was righted to at least a level of playoff caliber teams. That is undeniable.

Lastly, I am not defending him drafting Ponder. I don't know how many times I can say I hated the fucking pick. I thought Andy Dalton was a much superior quarterback prospect. I thought Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Mallet were at least equal prospect. I trade down at least once to later in the first. If they had such a hard on for Ponder and he was selected ahead of them, big deal. Andy Dalton plus the value you got for trading down is much more valuable. (Go find the KFAN archives and you will read this take from that draft night).

I believe that this is the draft that converted Rick Spielman into a "value based" drafter. After the 2011 draft he became much more active in trading up and down in the draft. IN fact, in the 2012 and 2014 draft he acquired a 2012 4th, 5th, and 7th for trading down from 3 to 4 and a 2014 5th from Cleveland just by moving down one spot in the first with Cleveland. Of course, nothing infuriates the Spielman bashers more than getting extra assets for nothing!
Dude, you are a treat. With a terrible qb they were 10-6 and made the playoffs. Thats a lost year, you know, because WTF would they have done with quality qb play???? How come you didn't answer that question? Or that we wasted 3 years on a bad qb, but somehow that doesn't set the franchise back? Are you out of your freaking mind? :lol:

Which of these facts would you like to dispute?

1. Zimmer got the team to be a top 5 defense consistently
2. Zimmer has either made the playoffs or been close to playoffs every year after his first.
3. Zimmer has had either poor qb play or very average qb play in all but one of those years.

But you can't see how RS has bungled the qb position. Yeah, ok. 😀
:lol:

PackIsBack
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:51 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by PackIsBack » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:26 pm

Beef Supreme wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:34 pm
Okay. I did it. I looked up Ted Thompson’s 13 years in GB.

Here’s his 1st round picks:

Aaron Rodgers - this is really the only one that matters.
AJ Hawk
Justin Harrell
BJ Raji
Clay Mathews III
Brian Bulaga
Derrick Sherrod
Nick Perry
Datone Jones
Ha-Ha Clinton Dix
Damarious Randall
Kenny Clarke
Jaire Alexander
Rashan Gary
Darnell Savage Jr.
Jordan Love


Rodgers, Mathews, Bulaga. The rest are just guys. Alexander is pretty good too. Raji had a moment or two, but nobody remembers.
You need to stop after Kenny Clark if you are talking about Ted Thompson.

And Kenny Clark is just a guy? Good God, man. Alexander is "pretty good"?

User avatar
Face The Facts
Posts: 1807
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by Face The Facts » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:31 pm

mlhouse wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:48 pm
And yet, with all of this disaster, the Vikings have had the 12th best record in the NFL over the past decade and have built their team almost exclusively via the draft or UDFA they originally signed.

The biggest problem the Vikings have had over the past is that they have had significant injuries at the quarterback position, with Bridgewater's injury having the most impact as that cost us not only the first round pick we used to draft Teddy, but another to find a replacement.

THe fact is, the most significant similarities about the teams that have had better records over the past decade is that they have had top level quarterback play and those quarterbacks did not get injured (and if they did, they returned from their injury). Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees. If the Vikings would have got that level of consistent, uninjured quarterback play then they would rank even higher.

Has Rick Spielman made mistakes? Certainly. All GMs do. But he has also developed a contending team, from top to bottom, using all levels of personnel options.

Saying otherwise is nothing but a complete crock.

An aside note: I did not give the Vikings a very good draft grade on the Brian O'Neil pick that is for sure. Unlike you, I actually watched O'Neil play before he was drafted and his results were very mixed at best. He also was terrible in the Senior Bowl practices and game. But, if you read what I wrote about the pick, I did note that I hated the way Pitt's offensive line was coached and believed O'Neil could improve with professional coaching. I also noted that this was a reach pick that Spielman was forced to make because of the run of oLine in the early 2nd round made the pickings at the position rather limited.
Being a top 12 team (oh boy!) probably says more about the coaching than the talent.
Zimmer has coached these guys well above their talent level. Makes a lot of these guys look better than they really are.

User avatar
RubeTube
***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
Posts: 30296
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Wonder why this team is in the state it's in?

Post by RubeTube » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:44 pm

Lol

The "Top 12 GM record" really makes me giggle.

You can't argue since Spielman took over, the Vikings haven't done much.

They also had the worse era in my lifetime (Ponder era) and are looking really bad right now.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X

RIP George Floyd

Post Reply