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LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

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memyworld
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LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by memyworld »

Now that LeBron officially passed Jordan as fourth on the NBA All-Time Scoring list, he's only 1,332 points behind Kobe Bryant for third place. I thought it would be fun to look at how they statistically stack up against one another to provide context for their achievements, because, as you'll see, Jordan posted better numbers in fewer games and less minutes:

Per Game
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Per 100 Possessions
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by Moses Scurry »

Jordan played College, took two years off and lowered his averages by playing for the Wizards.

1. Jordan
2. James
3. Kobe (last of the great chuckers!)

James is every bit the equal of Jordan but I think he cared more about his brand, Jordan wanted to win each game thus he gets the nod. James goes to LA and tries to say the right things but he's just so fake and contrived. He also likes to throw blame around (see Cleveland and Kevin Love and now LA.)
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by Decker23 »

I've watched the entirety of each one's career. Per the eye test - Jordan was the best, IMO.

Wiggins is a close 2nd.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by HeHateMe »

LeBron
Jordan
Kobe
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by RubeTube »

Jordan
Kobe
Lebron

Jordan and Kobe are two of my all time faves. On a "Pure talent" level, Lebron trumps them all but he doesn't have that killer instinct, clutch gene like Jordan and Kobe.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by j2j »

Moses Scurry wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:36 pm Jordan played College, took two years off and lowered his averages by playing for the Wizards.

1. Jordan
2. James
3. Kobe (last of the great chuckers!)

James is every bit the equal of Jordan but I think he cared more about his brand, Jordan wanted to win each game thus he gets the nod. James goes to LA and tries to say the right things but he's just so fake and contrived. He also likes to throw blame around (see Cleveland and Kevin Love and now LA.)
This.

Plus he's gotten a couple coaches fired because of his fragile ego.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by KevinBaconIsNotMyHero »

1. Jordan
2. Lebron




3. Kobe
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by Da Gas Man »

As a Bulls fan, I am a little biased but here it is:

Jordan
LeBron
Kobe

Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing. He could not take a day off. In everything he does, he needs to win. Not want - needs.

If he was playing cards with your grandmother, he would NEED to win. It is to the point of a psychosis which sure worked out well for we bulls fan.

Jordan wanted to win game 17 of the regular season as much as he wanted every other game including playoffs.

I like to think of it this way - when LeBron and Co came back from 3-1, everyone said that LeBron found another gear and that also elevated his team (it helped that Green went out too). While that is great that LeBron found another gear and won, it demonstrates that he wasn't using it when he went down 3-1. Jordan never did that. Jordan played his hardest every single moment. He was incapable of doing otherwise. LeBron has gotten better in this area (he was really bad in this area when he was younger) but he is not on Jordan's level.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by RubeTube »

Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by memyworld »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 pm Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
I did a little search to guide my answer to find players from 1995-96 to 2018-19 in their 3rd to 12th season who had at least 2 All-Star selections.

Once I had that list, I crossed off Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron and players who haven't won a championship. I added in players who won a championship in that window who didn't make the top 20 in either of the lists below who were also one of the best two or three players on their teams.

After all of that, I think it comes down to the following three players (in order):

1. Steph Curry
2. Kevin Durant
3. Shaquille O'Neal

---

My Top Five
Steph Curry
Kevin Durant
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
David Robinson

Respect To
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon
Klay Thompson

We'll See How It Goes
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Karl-Anthony Towns
Anthony Davis
James Harden

---

Win Shares per 48 Minutes

01. M. Jordan
02. Chris Paul
03. L. James
04. David Robinson
05. Karl Malone
06. Kevin Durant
07. James Harden
08. Stephen Curry
09. Kawhi Leonard
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Dirk Nowitzki
12. Anthony Davis
13. Tim Duncan
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Karl-Anthony Towns
16. Yao Ming
17. Giannis Antetokounmpo
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Chauncey Billups
20. Kobe Bryant

Box Plus/Minus

01. L. James
02. Chris Paul
03. James Harden
04. Stephen Curry
05. Russell Westbrook
06. Karl Malone
07. M. Jordan
08. David Robinson
09. Kevin Garnett
10. Kawhi Leonard
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. Giannis Antetokounmpo
13. Dwyane Wade
14. Tim Duncan
15. Kevin Durant
16. Manu Ginobili
17. Karl-Anthony Towns
18. Scottie Pippen
19. Tracy McGrady
20. Anthony Davis

Championship Player, Top Two/Three on Team

Hakeem Olajuwon
Clyde Drexler
Ben Wallace
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by RubeTube »

memyworld wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:26 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 pm Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
I did a little search to guide my answer to find players from 1995-96 to 2018-19 in their 3rd to 12th season who had at least 2 All-Star selections.

Once I had that list, I crossed off Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron and players who haven't won a championship. I added in players who won a championship in that window who didn't make the top 20 in either of the lists below who were also one of the best two or three players on their teams.

After all of that, I think it comes down to the following three players (in order):

1. Steph Curry
2. Kevin Durant
3. Shaquille O'Neal

---

My Top Five
Steph Curry
Kevin Durant
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
David Robinson

Respect To
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon
Klay Thompson

We'll See How It Goes
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Karl-Anthony Towns
Anthony Davis
James Harden

---

Win Shares per 48 Minutes

01. M. Jordan
02. Chris Paul
03. L. James
04. David Robinson
05. Karl Malone
06. Kevin Durant
07. James Harden
08. Stephen Curry
09. Kawhi Leonard
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Dirk Nowitzki
12. Anthony Davis
13. Tim Duncan
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Karl-Anthony Towns
16. Yao Ming
17. Giannis Antetokounmpo
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Chauncey Billups
20. Kobe Bryant

Box Plus/Minus

01. L. James
02. Chris Paul
03. James Harden
04. Stephen Curry
05. Russell Westbrook
06. Karl Malone
07. M. Jordan
08. David Robinson
09. Kevin Garnett
10. Kawhi Leonard
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. Giannis Antetokounmpo
13. Dwyane Wade
14. Tim Duncan
15. Kevin Durant
16. Manu Ginobili
17. Karl-Anthony Towns
18. Scottie Pippen
19. Tracy McGrady
20. Anthony Davis

Championship Player, Top Two/Three on Team

Hakeem Olajuwon
Clyde Drexler
Ben Wallace
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Nice. Very interesting.

For me it is Shaq.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by memyworld »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:59 pm
memyworld wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:26 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 pm Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
I did a little search to guide my answer to find players from 1995-96 to 2018-19 in their 3rd to 12th season who had at least 2 All-Star selections.

Once I had that list, I crossed off Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron and players who haven't won a championship. I added in players who won a championship in that window who didn't make the top 20 in either of the lists below who were also one of the best two or three players on their teams.

After all of that, I think it comes down to the following three players (in order):

1. Steph Curry
2. Kevin Durant
3. Shaquille O'Neal

---

My Top Five
Steph Curry
Kevin Durant
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
David Robinson

Respect To
Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Garnett
Hakeem Olajuwon
Klay Thompson

We'll See How It Goes
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Karl-Anthony Towns
Anthony Davis
James Harden

---

Win Shares per 48 Minutes

01. M. Jordan
02. Chris Paul
03. L. James
04. David Robinson
05. Karl Malone
06. Kevin Durant
07. James Harden
08. Stephen Curry
09. Kawhi Leonard
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Dirk Nowitzki
12. Anthony Davis
13. Tim Duncan
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Karl-Anthony Towns
16. Yao Ming
17. Giannis Antetokounmpo
18. Kevin Garnett
19. Chauncey Billups
20. Kobe Bryant

Box Plus/Minus

01. L. James
02. Chris Paul
03. James Harden
04. Stephen Curry
05. Russell Westbrook
06. Karl Malone
07. M. Jordan
08. David Robinson
09. Kevin Garnett
10. Kawhi Leonard
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. Giannis Antetokounmpo
13. Dwyane Wade
14. Tim Duncan
15. Kevin Durant
16. Manu Ginobili
17. Karl-Anthony Towns
18. Scottie Pippen
19. Tracy McGrady
20. Anthony Davis

Championship Player, Top Two/Three on Team

Hakeem Olajuwon
Clyde Drexler
Ben Wallace
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Klay Thompson
Kyrie Irving
Nice. Very interesting.

For me it is Shaq.
My argument for Curry is that Shaq and Durant have a championship co-star on the lists above. Steph won a championship without a player as good as Kobe and Durant (or himself).
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by KevinBaconIsNotMyHero »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 pm Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
Duncan. Most underrated player maybe in league history. Best player on 4 title teams. Second best player on another.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by RubeTube »

KevinBaconIsNotMyHero wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:03 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 pm Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
Duncan. Most underrated player maybe in league history. Best player on 4 title teams. Second best player on another.
Still going Shaq imo. Duncan is my #2 though.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by zeitgeist »

Not really sure why Kobe's name is being brought up here, he's a top 11-15 player all-time. Garnett, Duncan, and Shaq were all better during his time period but big men seem to get notoriously underrated because they aren't as flashy or something.

LeBron is the GOAT, Bill Russell is 2nd and Jordan is 3rd.

LeBron has more longevity, he is a far better passer and not far behind as a scorer, Jordan is more consistent against the best defenses as a scorer. LeBron is a better defender. LeBron's 2016 is better than any of Jordan's finals performances. Jordan won in a watered down expansion era, while LeBron is playing against one of the most stacked leagues in the past 30 years or so and the Warriors are a lot better than any team Jordan faced in the finals.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by zeitgeist »

KevinBaconIsNotMyHero wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:03 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:19 pm Let's make this interesting. Say you can't choose Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. You also can't go into the 80's and early 90's with Magic and Bird.

Who's the next #1? Let's say from 95 on.

I have my guy. Would like to here your guy's take.
Duncan. Most underrated player maybe in league history. Best player on 4 title teams. Second best player on another.
It's either Duncan or Garnett, no question about it. Yes, our front office royally screwed up.
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by T_J »

Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:39 am As a Bulls fan, I am a little biased but here it is:

Jordan
LeBron
Kobe

Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing. He could not take a day off. In everything he does, he needs to win. Not want - needs.

If he was playing cards with your grandmother, he would NEED to win. It is to the point of a psychosis which sure worked out well for we bulls fan.

Jordan wanted to win game 17 of the regular season as much as he wanted every other game including playoffs.

I like to think of it this way - when LeBron and Co came back from 3-1, everyone said that LeBron found another gear and that also elevated his team (it helped that Green went out too). While that is great that LeBron found another gear and won, it demonstrates that he wasn't using it when he went down 3-1. Jordan never did that. Jordan played his hardest every single moment. He was incapable of doing otherwise. LeBron has gotten better in this area (he was really bad in this area when he was younger) but he is not on Jordan's level.
This is a silly point imo. Golden State also looked unbeatable the first half of that series, which had more to do with the 3-1 than Lebron not finding a higher gear. A better example is the Miami/Dallas Finals where he clearly wasn't up to the moment.

You know what, I'm going to edit this again. So Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing, but he lost in the playoffs many times. This point gets brought up all the time like he was invincible his whole career. Actually it ties into my post below about Finals record.
Last edited by T_J on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by T_J »

I'm surprised there hasn't been mention of Finals records yet. I always like that debate like a Finals loss is somehow worse than losing in round 2.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by Da Gas Man »

T_J wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:35 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:39 am As a Bulls fan, I am a little biased but here it is:

Jordan
LeBron
Kobe

Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing. He could not take a day off. In everything he does, he needs to win. Not want - needs.

If he was playing cards with your grandmother, he would NEED to win. It is to the point of a psychosis which sure worked out well for we bulls fan.

Jordan wanted to win game 17 of the regular season as much as he wanted every other game including playoffs.

I like to think of it this way - when LeBron and Co came back from 3-1, everyone said that LeBron found another gear and that also elevated his team (it helped that Green went out too). While that is great that LeBron found another gear and won, it demonstrates that he wasn't using it when he went down 3-1. Jordan never did that. Jordan played his hardest every single moment. He was incapable of doing otherwise. LeBron has gotten better in this area (he was really bad in this area when he was younger) but he is not on Jordan's level.
This is a silly point imo. Golden State also looked unbeatable the first half of that series, which had more to do with the 3-1 than Lebron not finding a higher gear. A better example is the Miami/Dallas Finals where he clearly wasn't up to the moment.

You know what, I'm going to edit this again. So Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing, but he lost in the playoffs many times. This point gets brought up all the time like he was invincible his whole career. Actually it ties into my post below about Finals record.
You misunderstood my point. Of course Jordan lost games. But he never took a day off. He never was okay living to fight another day. Ever. LeBron did and does.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by T_J »

Da Gas Man wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:55 pm
T_J wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:35 am
Da Gas Man wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:39 am As a Bulls fan, I am a little biased but here it is:

Jordan
LeBron
Kobe

Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing. He could not take a day off. In everything he does, he needs to win. Not want - needs.

If he was playing cards with your grandmother, he would NEED to win. It is to the point of a psychosis which sure worked out well for we bulls fan.

Jordan wanted to win game 17 of the regular season as much as he wanted every other game including playoffs.

I like to think of it this way - when LeBron and Co came back from 3-1, everyone said that LeBron found another gear and that also elevated his team (it helped that Green went out too). While that is great that LeBron found another gear and won, it demonstrates that he wasn't using it when he went down 3-1. Jordan never did that. Jordan played his hardest every single moment. He was incapable of doing otherwise. LeBron has gotten better in this area (he was really bad in this area when he was younger) but he is not on Jordan's level.
This is a silly point imo. Golden State also looked unbeatable the first half of that series, which had more to do with the 3-1 than Lebron not finding a higher gear. A better example is the Miami/Dallas Finals where he clearly wasn't up to the moment.

You know what, I'm going to edit this again. So Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing, but he lost in the playoffs many times. This point gets brought up all the time like he was invincible his whole career. Actually it ties into my post below about Finals record.
You misunderstood my point. Of course Jordan lost games. But he never took a day off. He never was okay living to fight another day. Ever. LeBron did and does.
Lebron takes off tons of regular season games or coasts through them at best, but I don't buy that he's taking any days off in the Finals.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by Da Gas Man »

T_J wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:00 pm
Da Gas Man wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:55 pm
T_J wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:35 am

This is a silly point imo. Golden State also looked unbeatable the first half of that series, which had more to do with the 3-1 than Lebron not finding a higher gear. A better example is the Miami/Dallas Finals where he clearly wasn't up to the moment.

You know what, I'm going to edit this again. So Jordan was pathologically incapable of losing, but he lost in the playoffs many times. This point gets brought up all the time like he was invincible his whole career. Actually it ties into my post below about Finals record.
You misunderstood my point. Of course Jordan lost games. But he never took a day off. He never was okay living to fight another day. Ever. LeBron did and does.
Lebron takes off tons of regular season games or coasts through them at best, but I don't buy that he's taking any days off in the Finals.
Not a day off necessarily. But giving every last ounce that he has in every game? Nope. Very few have.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by zeitgeist »

Da Gas Man wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:30 pm
T_J wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:00 pm
Da Gas Man wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:55 pm

You misunderstood my point. Of course Jordan lost games. But he never took a day off. He never was okay living to fight another day. Ever. LeBron did and does.
Lebron takes off tons of regular season games or coasts through them at best, but I don't buy that he's taking any days off in the Finals.
Not a day off necessarily. But giving every last ounce that he has in every game? Nope. Very few have.
Impossible to quantify which person is giving "every last ounce" and which one isn't. In the end, LeBron has more career value because his prime has lasted longer.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by BuDG123 »

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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by bubu dubu. »

T_J wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:40 am I'm surprised there hasn't been mention of Finals records yet. I always like that debate like a Finals loss is somehow worse than losing in round 2.
Also one of my favorites from LeBron haters. Essentially arguing that he carried too many teams to he finals.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by Spaceballs »

MJ and Kobe in front of the whiner Lebron, all day, every day.
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Re: LeBron v. Jordan v. Kobe

Post by RubeTube »

Spaceballs wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:40 pm MJ and Kobe in front of the whiner Lebron, all day, every day.

I’m in agreement with you, Balls.

I’m a bit biased as Jordan and Kobe are two of my favorite players ever if not my two favorite players I ever watched play. I just never truly embraced James. I couldn’t stand him when he first came into the league and then he joined the Heat and I never rooted for a team to lose in the NBA than those Heat teams. Then he went back to Cleveland and I hated GSW so badly that for the first time ever, I rooted for James. That 3-1 comeback was one of if not the best Finals performances I’ve seen. That stamped him into no doubting his legendary status.

Either way he can be talked about as the greatest ever and even if you don’t agree, the opinion has to be respected as there is an argument to be made. One of the other reasons that I still like him is he’s one of the only guys left from the era when the NBA was still good and probably my favorite all around sport. The NBA bores me to fucking death now and the stars in the league are not remotely as good or relevant as they were. There isn’t even a top young guy that everyone knows, is there? Yo Momma knew who Dr. J, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron etc was. Yo Momma don’t know who the fuck Luka and Ja are.
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