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Hall of Fame or not?

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RubeTube
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by RubeTube »

bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:54 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:49 pm
bubu dubu. wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:07 pm Couple other players off the top of my head...

Tim Hardaway (5x all NBA team)
Ben Wallace (5x all NBA, 4x DPOY)
Shawn Kemp (6x all star, 3x all NBA)
Penny Hardaway (3x all NBA (2 times 1st team))
Chris Webber (5x all NBA, ROY, 5x all star)
Steve Kerr (8x champion (5 as player, 3 as coach))
Webber
Kemp
Wallace

Rest are.out.
Kerr is gonna get in as a contributor. 8 championships and counting. For some who are in, its not just about playing career.
Possibly. I'm talking as a player. Not even close.

Penny could of been the best of the whole bunch and he was for awhile but his career was too short at the top.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by bubu dubu. »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:57 pm
bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:54 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:49 pm

Webber
Kemp
Wallace

Rest are.out.
Kerr is gonna get in as a contributor. 8 championships and counting. For some who are in, its not just about playing career.
Possibly. I'm talking as a player. Not even close.

Penny could of been the best of the whole bunch and he was for awhile but his career was too short at the top.
Of course Kerr won't be in as a player, but his contributions as a player (specifically his 5 championships) will play a part. His 3 championships and counting as a coach will also be looked at. Also, he aint done in the NBA after the GSW dynasty ends.

As for Penny, its a damn shame. HoF talent, but the injuries did him in. Brandon Roy is in the same boat as him.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by j2j »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:46 pm
j2j wrote: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:45 am Sadly Carmelo is probably a HOFer, but what an overrated bum.
Not probably lol. 100% first ballot.
Like I said, overrated bum. No defense, insufficient chucker, shitty teammate, never won except on loaded Olympics rosters.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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bubu dubu. wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:07 pm Couple other players off the top of my head...

Tim Hardaway (5x all NBA team)
Ben Wallace (5x all NBA, 4x DPOY)
Shawn Kemp (6x all star, 3x all NBA)
Penny Hardaway (3x all NBA (2 times 1st team))
Chris Webber (5x all NBA, ROY, 5x all star)
Steve Kerr (8x champion (5 as player, 3 as coach))
Tim Hardaway - No
Ben Wallace - Yes
Shawn Kemp - No
Penny Hardaway - No
Chris Webber - Yes
Steve Kerr - Yes


The Hardaways and Kemp don't make it because it's not just the Hall of "Very Good." They're good players, but they never led their teams to titles and were never the best players at their positions in the league. Penny may have gotten there if he didn't get hurt and Shaq didn't head to LaLa land.

To me, Ben Wallace is in, but certainly not right away. He was the centerpiece of an incredibly unique Championship team and was maybe the last truly dominant defensive force in the NBA. His Pistons are the reason the NBA changed the rules to open the game up and make it all about offense. I put him in. He might not get in, but I think he should be in.

Webber is in. His college career as part of the Fab-5 puts him over the line as his NBA career puts him right on the cusp.

Kerr is in, more for his work as a coach than a player. He had great moments as a player, and was on great teams, but was not a great player. If he just disappeared or stayed a TV analyst after his player career was over, he wouldn't be in serious consideration for the Hall. His role in the Warriors' dynasty and in the changing NBA landscape will be worthy of admission by the time it's all said and done.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by RubeTube »

Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:34 pm What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
Zero from the top.

Paul George will be in. D Rose would have been without the injuries. A ton of time on Boogie yet but he isn't right now.

The rest are NO's

P.s. Did you want to make us laugh with the Odom nomination?
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:36 pm
Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:34 pm What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
Zero from the top.

Paul George will be in. D Rose would have been without the injuries. A ton of time on Boogie yet but he isn't right now.

The rest are NO's

P.s. Did you want to make us laugh with the Odom nomination?
Lakers always get more love than they deserve. He was a really good "Swiss Army" style complimentary player for the Kobe-Gasol back-to-back title teams. 6th man award winner. Shit, I thought he made a couple all star teams. I guess not. So he's probably not getting in.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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two guys that are primarily three point specialists:

JJ Reddick (his game is a bit more diverse than Korver's)
Kyle Korver
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Dan33185 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:47 pm two guys that are primarily three point specialists:

JJ Reddick (his game is a bit more diverse than Korver's)
Kyle Korver
I can't imagine either of them making it.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Dan33185 wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:47 pm two guys that are primarily three point specialists:

JJ Reddick (his game is a bit more diverse than Korver's)
Kyle Korver
Neither in.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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I think Korver could. He's currently ranked 4th all time in made 3's, and only needs 20 to move in to 3rd all time. He's kind of a one tricky pony, I get that, but that one trick is better than almost any player to ever play.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Dan33185 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 am I think Korver could. He's currently ranked 4th all time in made 3's, and only needs 20 to move in to 3rd all time. He's kind of a one tricky pony, I get that, but that one trick is better than almost any player to ever play.
Fun wager would be if he ever moves into 3rd. I'd say no. It will be close.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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j2j wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:37 am
Dan33185 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 am I think Korver could. He's currently ranked 4th all time in made 3's, and only needs 20 to move in to 3rd all time. He's kind of a one tricky pony, I get that, but that one trick is better than almost any player to ever play.
Fun wager would be if he ever moves into 3rd. I'd say no. It will be close.
He'll probably move in to third within the next few weeks. Of course, he'll be knocked back eventually because Curry is on pace to shatter the all time record.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Dan33185 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:09 pm
j2j wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:37 am
Dan33185 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 am I think Korver could. He's currently ranked 4th all time in made 3's, and only needs 20 to move in to 3rd all time. He's kind of a one tricky pony, I get that, but that one trick is better than almost any player to ever play.
Fun wager would be if he ever moves into 3rd. I'd say no. It will be close.
He'll probably move in to third within the next few weeks. Of course, he'll be knocked back eventually because Curry is on pace to shatter the all time record.
I think Curry gets to 3rd before Korver does.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Could be, just looked at the updated stats and Korver has 18 to go to move in to 3rd all time, Curry has 28. Curry has 719 to go to break Ray Allen's record, which at his current pace should take about 2.5-3 seasons or so.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Dan33185 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:42 pm Could be, just looked at the updated stats and Korver has 18 to go to move in to 3rd all time, Curry has 28. Curry has 719 to go to break Ray Allen's record, which at his current pace should take about 2.5-3 seasons or so.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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ZzZzZ a NBA 3 point record nowadays is comparable to the NFLs passing records.

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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Chauncey Billups been brought up yet?

I say no, because his pure numbers never screamed dominant player.

Nice accolades though....

Champion, and MVP during that championship.
5x all star
3x all NBA
2x all defense
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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I want to say yes to Chauncey, but I don’t think he did it at that level for long enough. He’s out but not by much.

What about:

Dwight Howard
Joe Johnson
Marc Gasol
Andre Iguadala
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by bubu dubu. »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:57 pm I want to say yes to Chauncey, but I don’t think he did it at that level for long enough. He’s out but not by much.

What about:

Dwight Howard
Joe Johnson
Marc Gasol
Andre Iguadala
I've never even really thought of Dwight, but looking at his accolades, most notably 7x all NBA, 5x all defense, and 3x defensive player of the year...yeah, he's an easy in. His reputation, and the seemingly negative vibe around him from his own generation may keep him out for a few years (which would be unfair and unfortunate), but his numbers ultimately will get him in.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:34 pm What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
No to all. For me, there is no “what do you think?” To HOF’s. It’s guys like Shaq and Kobe, LeBron, Etc. Guys there is no question about.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Bob Wiley wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 am
Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:34 pm What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
No to all. For me, there is no “what do you think?” To HOF’s. It’s guys like Shaq and Kobe, LeBron, Etc. Guys there is no question about.
If Paul George keeps playing like he has, no question he's in the HOF.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by bubu dubu. »

Bob Wiley wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 am
Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:34 pm What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
No to all. For me, there is no “what do you think?” To HOF’s. It’s guys like Shaq and Kobe, LeBron, Etc. Guys there is no question about.
With the exception of Paul George, I agree with what you personally think. But what do you think the HoF voters would think? Love for a few years was in the argument as the best PF in basketball, and now he has ring cred too. He will be on the fringe. Boogie still has a lot of time left in the league, and might soon have ring cred with GSW (I think he signs long term there if Durant leaves). Rose was one of the games dominant players for a solid stretch, and if his resurrected career extends a few more years, he will be on the fringe (even if he's just a 20-25 mpg guy from here on out).
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by RubeTube »

bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:47 pm
Bob Wiley wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 am
Beef Supreme wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:34 pm What about these names:


Rip Hamilton
Metta World Peace (Ron Artest)
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom


What do you think of these current players chances?

Rajon Rondo
Kevin Love
Derrick Rose
Paul George
Boogie Cousins
No to all. For me, there is no “what do you think?” To HOF’s. It’s guys like Shaq and Kobe, LeBron, Etc. Guys there is no question about.
With the exception of Paul George, I agree with what you personally think. But what do you think the HoF voters would think? Love for a few years was in the argument as the best PF in basketball, and now he has ring cred too. He will be on the fringe. Boogie still has a lot of time left in the league, and might soon have ring cred with GSW (I think he signs long term there if Durant leaves). Rose was one of the games dominant players for a solid stretch, and if his resurrected career extends a few more years, he will be on the fringe (even if he's just a 20-25 mpg guy from here on out).
There is no way Kevin Love is a HOFer
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:49 pm
bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:47 pm
Bob Wiley wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 am

No to all. For me, there is no “what do you think?” To HOF’s. It’s guys like Shaq and Kobe, LeBron, Etc. Guys there is no question about.
With the exception of Paul George, I agree with what you personally think. But what do you think the HoF voters would think? Love for a few years was in the argument as the best PF in basketball, and now he has ring cred too. He will be on the fringe. Boogie still has a lot of time left in the league, and might soon have ring cred with GSW (I think he signs long term there if Durant leaves). Rose was one of the games dominant players for a solid stretch, and if his resurrected career extends a few more years, he will be on the fringe (even if he's just a 20-25 mpg guy from here on out).
There is no way Kevin Love is a HOFer
He's got some nice accolades.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Vince Carter?
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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Dan33185 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:07 pmVince Carter?
ummm...duh.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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bubu dubu. wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:25 pm
Dan33185 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:07 pmVince Carter?
ummm...duh.
I'm thinking yes, but I don't think it's a given. He's been to the Conference Finals once in his career, and he's never been to the NBA Finals. I get it's a team sport, but he has very little playoff success, and most HOF players do, even if they haven't won a title.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

Post by bubu dubu. »

Dan33185 wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:12 am
bubu dubu. wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:25 pm
Dan33185 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:07 pmVince Carter?
ummm...duh.
I'm thinking yes, but I don't think it's a given. He's been to the Conference Finals once in his career, and he's never been to the NBA Finals. I get it's a team sport, but he has very little playoff success, and most HOF players do, even if they haven't won a title.
its as clear as day. Vince is HoF, not even debatable.
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Re: Hall of Fame or not?

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https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/vince-car ... d=45063175
Vince Carter isn't quite finished. Formerly the game's greatest dunker and now the oldest player in the NBA, Carter will turn 40 in January.

Carter will reach the end of the NBA line sooner rather than later, at which point a debate that has long divided fans and analysts will take on new urgency: Is Carter a Hall of Famer?

Argument for: Hall-worthy numbers

Even in his age-40 season, Carter has supplied crucial firepower off the bench for the Memphis Grizzlies so far, averaging 9.9 points in 27.2 minutes per game -- the most he has played in six years.

Carter is now less than a thousand points away from becoming the 21st player in NBA history to score 25,000 points. He might not get there, but he already has surpassed the career scoring totals of Charles Barkley (23,757), Elgin Baylor (23,149) and Larry Bird (21,791).

Career totals don't hold the same sway in basketball as they do in baseball, since per-game averages are more important. Nonetheless, every eligible player with at least 25,000 points is in the Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame. In fact, only one eligible player ( Tom Chambers, with 20,049) with at least 20,000 points hasn't gotten the Hall call. (Antawn Jamison, a college teammate of Carter who retired with 20,042 and is not yet eligible, will surely join Chambers.)

Of course, in the future some of these career thresholds might change as players enter the league earlier, enabling them to rack up higher totals. But when he retires Carter is likely to be the leader in career points by far among those not in the Hall.

There's also the matter of All-Star appearances. Carter made eight of them, and only one eligible player with at least eight is not in the Hall of Fame (1950s star Larry Foust). All but one of the eligible players with seven All-Star appearances have made the Hall of Fame (Jack Sikma is the exception there, as I detailed in 2015).

Based on the precedent established by Hall of Fame electors, Carter should be a lock. Basketball-Reference.com's Hall of Fame probability measure gives him 94.6 percent chances of making it in. But, with Carter, it's never quite that simple.

Argument against: Carter's exit from Toronto

Carter's case will always be complicated by the way he left the Toronto Raptors, the team with whom he reached his greatest heights. Frustrated by the way Toronto management handled hiring a new GM and coach in the summer of 2004, Carter was ineffective at the start of the following season.

He averaged just 18.8 points per 36 minutes in 20 games before being traded to the Nets, then 25.4 points per 36 minutes after the trade. Per Basketball-Reference.com, the Raptors were outscored by 10.6 points per 100 possessions with Carter on the court pre-trade, worst of any player on the team with more than 500 minutes played.

Despite his role in establishing the NBA in Toronto, Carter was booed by Raptors fans for years when he returned to Air Canada Centre. More recently, however, Carter has mended fences with fans in Toronto. When he returned in 2014, Carter was recognized with a tribute video as part of the Raptors' 20th anniversary celebration and the boos turned into cheers.

If Toronto fans can forgive, the rest of us probably should too.

Argument against: low peak, limited playoff impact

There are more concrete basketball reasons to be skeptical of Carter's candidacy. While he racked up All-Star appearances with the Raptors and Nets, Carter made only two All-NBA teams: a third-team selection in 1999-00 and a second-team pick the following year.

More generally, Carter had few of the transcendent seasons we expect from a Hall of Famer. (He's better known for his transcendent moments, such as at the 2000 slam-dunk contest and at the Olympic Games that summer, when he dunked over Frederic Weis.)

He peaked at 16.5 wins above replacement player (WARP) by my metric in 2000-01, finishing eighth in the NBA. That was only his season with at least 15 WARP; of the 15 eligible players with precisely one season of 15-plus WARP, only four have been elected.

Then there's the postseason. Carter's reputation for shrinking from the moment was solidified in 2001, when he opted to attend his graduation from North Carolina on the morning of Game 7 of Toronto's conference semifinals series with the Philadelphia 76ers. After traveling to Philadelphia the day of the game, he shot 6-of-18 in a one-point Sixers win, missing an attempt in the final seconds that could have won the game.

That criticism was almost certainly unfair. Carter did have nine assists in a low-scoring game where counterpart Allen Iverson shot no better (8-of-27, albeit with 16 assists). But it proved emblematic of Carter's relatively limited impact on the playoff stage. His teams reached the conference finals only once (in 2010 with the Orlando Magic) and Carter has played just 82 playoff games, 30 fewer than teammate Tony Allen.

Argument for: Longevity


When Carter joined the Dallas Mavericks before the 2011-12 season, I would have bet against his Hall of Fame chances. Carter was almost 35 and coming off the two worst seasons of his career. Improbably, Carter found new life as a 3-point specialist off the bench, and he has extended his ability to contribute deep into his 30s.

Carter now has 14 seasons with five-plus WARP, and that puts him in much more exclusive territory. Inner-circle Hall of Famers Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and David Robinson had 13 such seasons apiece; Larry Bird and Magic Johnson had 12 because they were forced into early retirement.

Being capable for a long period of time isn't alone grounds to make the Hall of Fame -- Mark Jackson had 15 seasons with five-plus WARP and there's no groundswell of support for his case -- but in combination with Carter's career scoring total and number of All-Star appearances, it's enough to push him over the top in my mind.

In all likelihood, Vince Carter is going to be a Hall of Famer, and rightfully so
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