Welcome Bolmaro to the Minnesota Timberwolves

[mlhouse]

Seek help.

Really? Do you disagree with his point?

Yup. The actual selection is a separate move from the trade itself.

The trade was terrible. The selection was terrible. Everything about it was terrible. There is nothing to defend whatsoever.

Why they would make the trade before the draft without knowing who was available was stupid. Even if you don't like Saric and believe the value of the trade favored the WOlves, trading him meant that we made a weak position even weaker. That was idiotic. Then we selected a guy who was has demonstrated he is not going to be any type of game changer. From day 1 I said he was a rotational guy, the most overrated player in that draft.

With the exception of the Covington-Beasley trade, the other moves this guy has made have sucked. While he is seemingly more intelligent than David Kahn and doesn't make a fool of himself on television like Kahn did, I would argue he made the team much worse than Kahn ever did. At least when we were terrible under Kahn we were not pushed up against the salary cap and (even though Kahn did not acquire all of them) we had draft assets that we could use to rebuild the team.

We are the 2nd worse team in the NBA. We are right up to the luxury tax threshold giving us no ability to even sign a MLE level player. The only draft asset in our "bank" is a 2022 2nd round that is the most favorable of two playoff teams. We traded both of our 2021 picks away to GSW unless we are lucky in the draft lottery again (then the 2022 pick is unprotected).

This is a very bleak picture and I think they need to take action right now to try to right the ship. I personally believed they needed to give Ryan Saunders the benefit of the doubt. They have done this. The first thing they need to do is fire him. Then, even if it is on an interim basis, they need to bring in a team defensive specialist for the remainder of the season to try to get this team to play team defense starting from the most rudimentary concepts.

Right behind Ryan out the door needs to be Rossas. If they wait too long to do this they will not be able to find a GM to be in place at the March 25 trade deadline. But either way, they need ot fire him before the start of the offseason (of course without draft picks they don't need to worry about him selecting in the draft).

[Style]

Really? Do you disagree with his point?

Yup. The actual selection is a separate move from the trade itself.

The trade was terrible. The selection was terrible. Everything about it was terrible. There is nothing to defend whatsoever.

Why they would make the trade before the draft without knowing who was available was stupid. Even if you don't like Saric and believe the value of the trade favored the WOlves, trading him meant that we made a weak position even weaker. That was idiotic. Then we selected a guy who was has demonstrated he is not going to be any type of game changer. From day 1 I said he was a rotational guy, the most overrated player in that draft.

I cut your other stuff because I mostly agree.

But he did know who was going to be available. You have to have a big board to.. 6. One of those guys is guaranteed to be there. Saric stinks and was due to get paid. He was also a bad fit next to KAT. No loss there.

We’d be singing a very different tune if he drafted Cam Reddish at 6 instead of Culver. I’m not disputing he blew the actual pick. Again, the trade itself was fine. We can agree to disagree. He blew it by getting cute and playing chicken with Culver.

[mlhouse]

Yup. The actual selection is a separate move from the trade itself.

The trade was terrible. The selection was terrible. Everything about it was terrible. There is nothing to defend whatsoever.

Why they would make the trade before the draft without knowing who was available was stupid. Even if you don't like Saric and believe the value of the trade favored the WOlves, trading him meant that we made a weak position even weaker. That was idiotic. Then we selected a guy who was has demonstrated he is not going to be any type of game changer. From day 1 I said he was a rotational guy, the most overrated player in that draft.

I cut your other stuff because I mostly agree.

Saric stinks and was due to get paid. He was also a bad fit next to KAT. No loss there.

Your statement doesn't make one bit of sense.......... if he stunk then why was he due to get paid?

Also, as a space making 4, he is a perfect fit next to KAT.

[Style]

The trade was terrible. The selection was terrible. Everything about it was terrible. There is nothing to defend whatsoever.

Why they would make the trade before the draft without knowing who was available was stupid. Even if you don't like Saric and believe the value of the trade favored the WOlves, trading him meant that we made a weak position even weaker. That was idiotic. Then we selected a guy who was has demonstrated he is not going to be any type of game changer. From day 1 I said he was a rotational guy, the most overrated player in that draft.

I cut your other stuff because I mostly agree.

Saric stinks and was due to get paid. He was also a bad fit next to KAT. No loss there.

Your statement doesn't make one bit of sense.......... if he stunk then why was he due to get paid?

Also, as a space making 4, he is a perfect fit next to KAT.

You clearly value Saric higher than me. I think he stinks. You think he’s good. We can have different opinions and the same can be true with NBA GMs, it only takes one to believe and pay him.

In theory Saric and KAT are nice fits. In reality, they were awful together.

[mlhouse]

You clearly value Saric higher than me. I think he stinks. You think he’s good. We can have different opinions and the same can be true with NBA GMs, it only takes one to believe and pay him.

In theory Saric and KAT are nice fits. In reality, they were awful together.

I am going to ask the question again: if Saric stunk, why was he due to get paid? I don't think he was great, but he is a 15-8 player who has a versatile offensive game. While he is not a great defender, I think in a team defense he is adequate. He is far superior to any option the team has on our roster then and now. And, even more importantly, trading him away was one of the first steps that Rossas took that completely made our roster inbalanced and trading him made Robert Covington less effective in his role on the team. We got rid of a post player and added another wing.

Bad trade. Bad selection. And it has consequences we are seeing now.

[Style]

You clearly value Saric higher than me. I think he stinks. You think he’s good. We can have different opinions and the same can be true with NBA GMs, it only takes one to believe and pay him.

In theory Saric and KAT are nice fits. In reality, they were awful together.

I am going to ask the question again: if Saric stunk, why was he due to get paid? I don't think he was great, but he is a 15-8 player who has a versatile offensive game. While he is not a great defender, I think in a team defense he is adequate. He is far superior to any option the team has on our roster then and now. And, even more importantly, trading him away was one of the first steps that Rossas took that completely made our roster inbalanced and trading him made Robert Covington less effective in his role on the team. We got rid of a post player and added another wing.

Bad trade. Bad selection. And it has consequences we are seeing now.

The consequence now is the bad selection.

Would you take Saric (3/$27) & your choice of player at 11 over Cam Reddish?

Me either.

[mlhouse]

The consequence now is the bad selection.

Would you take Saric (3/$27) & your choice of player at 11 over Cam Reddish?

Me either.

It is both. Not only did he trade a player that had value and made the roster completley unbalanced, he made a bad selection on top of it. When you make that move, you need to hit on the selection. When you fail at both, the consequences are more than the sum of the parts.

Based on performance to date, I prolly would have made a bad draft choice. I really liked the upside of Sekoue Doumboya and I still do. Just he has not played well to start his NBA career except in brief flashes. I wasn't a Cam Reddish guy.

I liked Rui Hachimura more than Reddish. If sticking at 11, I would have considered PJ Washington and I would have also strongly considered Tyler Herro.

[somuchyummy]

i wasn't a cam reddish guy, but he's looked really good. he'd be great here. i was wrong.

wasn't a pj washington guy - but ditto.

herro wasn't even on my radar that high. i would have considered him an overreach (like the suns got criticized for with their cam johnson pick).

doumbouya i was torn on. not a big fan then - but if we could do a straight up swap now culver for sekou, oh yeah.

still (if i remember correctly) was hoping going into draft night that we'd just stay at 11 and take clarke. which wouldn't have been a bad choice.

[mlhouse]

i wasn't a cam reddish guy, but he's looked really good. he'd be great here. i was wrong.

wasn't a pj washington guy - but ditto.

herro wasn't even on my radar that high. i would have considered him an overreach (like the suns got criticized for with their cam johnson pick).

doumbouya i was torn on. not a big fan then - but if we could do a straight up swap now culver for sekou, oh yeah.

still (if i remember correctly) was hoping going into draft night that we'd just stay at 11 and take clarke. which wouldn't have been a bad choice.

The people calling for Brandon Clarke at 11 have been proven correc even though I am concerned about his shooting this season (why is he only shooting 23% from 3 and 50% from line).

And, wouldn't it have been nice to add a guy like Desmond Bane, the 30th overall pick, to the roster as a 3 point shooting specialist? He is just shooting 48.8% from 3 on 3.6 attempts/game (5.7/36). Or Saddiq Bey, 42.6% from 3 on 5.5 attempts/game (9.1/36). Bey is averaging 10 points per game in 21.9 minutes (16.4/36).

Or, the player I would have selected at 17 Precious Achiuwa.

Instead, we add a Euro-stash player who is doubtful to ever play and McDaniels at 28 whom they seem too afraid to play, which is the same case for the #1 overall selection, and a backup point guard who will be paid $34.8 million over the next two seasons.

For whatever reason, this is how this team does it. We are too afraid to play even high lottery picks, pass over useful players in the later first and 2nd round, and take these long shot flyers on players that never pan out.

The consistency of the approach seems to indicate it is not randomness.

[somuchyummy]

it's almost like our mgmt is on the take from other teams to make weird moves that allow those other teams to make great moves.

[Style]

^Sadly true.

One of the very few times in this franchise’s history of being able to be sellers at the deadline, they just ignored D-Rose and Tolliver as tradeable assets.

Even more sad is that we totally suck every year, yet can’t seem to ever have even one tradeable asset. Truly a remarkably bad accomplishment.

Latest example of asset squandering was trading a 2nd for Ed Davis.

[mlhouse]

it's almost like our mgmt is on the take from other teams to make weird moves that allow those other teams to make great moves.

It sure seems like that, doesn't it?

This is my theory. There have been 5 people who have run the Wolves in the post-McHale era: Kahn, Adelman, Suanders reboot, Thibodeau, and now Rossas. Each had their own specific blue prins for how to get it done. The ex-coaches each wanted to go the established veteran route and bring in players they had experience with. The two non-coaching GMs each has wanted to make these huge splashes with their own ideas and made huge mistakes along the way (well, just about every decision they made was a mistake).

Everything with Kahn and Rossas is designed to be a home run. When a power hitter swings for the fences, you swing and miss a lot. When you are a terrible hitter swinging for the fences, you miss every time, badly. Welcome to the Wolves world.

[T_J]

You clearly value Saric higher than me. I think he stinks. You think he’s good. We can have different opinions and the same can be true with NBA GMs, it only takes one to believe and pay him.

In theory Saric and KAT are nice fits. In reality, they were awful together.

I am going to ask the question again: if Saric stunk, why was he due to get paid? I don't think he was great, but he is a 15-8 player who has a versatile offensive game. While he is not a great defender, I think in a team defense he is adequate. He is far superior to any option the team has on our roster then and now. And, even more importantly, trading him away was one of the first steps that Rossas took that completely made our roster inbalanced and trading him made Robert Covington less effective in his role on the team. We got rid of a post player and added another wing.

Bad trade. Bad selection. And it has consequences we are seeing now.

He was due to get paid because people get enamored over tall, playmaking stretch Euros, even if his NBA career has been bleh at best.

I don’t disagree with your other points though.

[irishman89]

^Sadly true.

One of the very few times in this franchise’s history of being able to be sellers at the deadline, they just ignored D-Rose and Tolliver as tradeable assets.

Even more sad is that we totally suck every year, yet can’t seem to ever have even one tradeable asset. Truly a remarkably bad accomplishment.

Latest example of asset squandering was trading a 2nd for Ed Davis.

The ironic thing is Latino Neat is now down one second-rounder to go get his boy PJ Tucker. Rumored price is three 2nds. He seriously sucks but I would take him over Ed Davis right now.

[Style]

Latino Heat is putting on an impressive performance of draft pick mismanagement.

[mlhouse]

You clearly value Saric higher than me. I think he stinks. You think he’s good. We can have different opinions and the same can be true with NBA GMs, it only takes one to believe and pay him.

In theory Saric and KAT are nice fits. In reality, they were awful together.

I am going to ask the question again: if Saric stunk, why was he due to get paid? I don't think he was great, but he is a 15-8 player who has a versatile offensive game. While he is not a great defender, I think in a team defense he is adequate. He is far superior to any option the team has on our roster then and now. And, even more importantly, trading him away was one of the first steps that Rossas took that completely made our roster inbalanced and trading him made Robert Covington less effective in his role on the team. We got rid of a post player and added another wing.

Bad trade. Bad selection. And it has consequences we are seeing now.

He was due to get paid because people get enamored over tall, playmaking stretch Euros, even if his NBA career has been bleh at best.

I don’t disagree with your other points though.

Saric is the definition of average. I think his career PER is 15.0, average. BUT AVERAGE IS GOOD. To win, you need a couple of very good players, one above average, and two average, with the role playing, quality rotation guys to fill out your rotation.

We throw away average and replace with not even replacement level.

[RubeTube]

^Sadly true.

One of the very few times in this franchise’s history of being able to be sellers at the deadline, they just ignored D-Rose and Tolliver as tradeable assets.

Even more sad is that we totally suck every year, yet can’t seem to ever have even one tradeable asset. Truly a remarkably bad accomplishment.

Latest example of asset squandering was trading a 2nd for Ed Davis.

They can turn their misfortune around by trading Towns and DLO while they still have years on their deals and haven't forced out.

Who am I kidding. This team will continue to stink and will trade Towns etc away for peanuts when he has all the leverage on who he will sign an extension with etc.

[somuchyummy]

I am going to ask the question again: if Saric stunk, why was he due to get paid? I don't think he was great, but he is a 15-8 player who has a versatile offensive game. While he is not a great defender, I think in a team defense he is adequate. He is far superior to any option the team has on our roster then and now. And, even more importantly, trading him away was one of the first steps that Rossas took that completely made our roster inbalanced and trading him made Robert Covington less effective in his role on the team. We got rid of a post player and added another wing.

Bad trade. Bad selection. And it has consequences we are seeing now.

He was due to get paid because people get enamored over tall, playmaking stretch Euros, even if his NBA career has been bleh at best.

I don’t disagree with your other points though.

Saric is the definition of average. I think his career PER is 15.0, average. BUT AVERAGE IS GOOD. To win, you need a couple of very good players, one above average, and two average, with the role playing, quality rotation guys to fill out your rotation.

We throw away average and replace with not even replacement level.

that's a good point.

[somuchyummy]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

[Style]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

There’s really no reason we should be this bad. I think it was overly optimistic to expect playoffs, but we have more talent than worst team in the league.

...

...

Looking at you Saunders.

[RubeTube]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

There’s really no reason we should be this bad. I think it was overly optimistic to expect playoffs, but we have more talent than worst team in the league.

...

...

Looking at you Saunders.

This definitely is one of the worst teams in the league when Kat is not playing. He has missed most of the early season.

They are right where they are every year.

That's why I started a tank thread before the first game.

[Style]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

There’s really no reason we should be this bad. I think it was overly optimistic to expect playoffs, but we have more talent than worst team in the league.

...

...

Looking at you Saunders.

This definitely is one of the worst teams in the league when Kat is not playing. He has missed most of the early season.

They are right where they are every year.

That's why I started a tank thread before the first game.

Fair point. I guess I don’t picture us being complete toilet paper. Like we’re not even competitive most games.

I expected to get bulldozed when we had Luke Ridnour as SG defending Kobe Bryant, but I don’t see that level of overall talent suck on this roster.

[RubeTube]

There’s really no reason we should be this bad. I think it was overly optimistic to expect playoffs, but we have more talent than worst team in the league.

...

...

Looking at you Saunders.

This definitely is one of the worst teams in the league when Kat is not playing. He has missed most of the early season.

They are right where they are every year.

That's why I started a tank thread before the first game.

Fair point. I guess I don’t picture us being complete toilet paper. Like we’re not even competitive most games.

I expected to get bulldozed when we had Luke Ridnour as SG defending Kobe Bryant, but I don’t see that level of overall talent suck on this roster.

Luke Ridnour is better than 70% of the players on this roster.

I think DLo, Towns, Beasley and Rubio are the only guys I would take over him .

[kilkenny]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

I don't pin it all on the players. We are almost always jacking up contested 3's. It seems we don't understand how to draw up plays to get guys open first. They run around like they're making it up on the fly.

[mlhouse]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

Russell is shooting 39.8% from 3 and Beasley 38.8%. Looking at Basketball reference, that ranks them 71st and 75th. Which is amazing because those are actually very good shooting percentages on their volumes. There are 70 players in the NBA that are shooting above 40% and 15 that are shooting above 50%. Paul George has shot 104 3 point attempts, 8.0 per game, and is shooting 51% from 3.

This is just crazy.

[somuchyummy]

just perusing the nba players stats tonight - and it's crazy. we are a team that mgmt wants to transform into a 3 pt threat - yet, here's how it stands in this short season - (and with KAT injured). of the 213 nba players who qualify to be ranked for 3 pt accuracy, the wolves have just 4. Dlo comes in 92nd, beasley 93rd, juancho at 185 and AE at 200. really kicking the doors down.

I don't pin it all on the players. We are almost always jacking up contested 3's. It seems we don't understand how to draw up plays to get guys open first. They run around like they're making it up on the fly.

i'm actually NOT pinning it on the players. i'm pinning it on system - as you said. big priority, i guess, to turn the wolves into a great 3 shooting team - with also, i guess, very little thought on how to actually do that other than have the guys jack up more often from long distance.

[thinktank]

whatever you think of Rosas, keep in mind that Saunders isn’t using many of his players properly.

[jodaman01]

whatever you think of Rosas, keep in mind that Saunders isn’t using many of his players properly.

Which players do you believe Saunders isn’t using in the roles Rosas envisioned for them?

Most of his team is 1-3 players and all pretty interchangeable....you hit the 4 and 5 and you NAZ and KAT at the 5, but the 4 is ultimately Rosas’s complete failure.

Going into his first draft the only absolute clear need this team had was the PG position. He moved up in that draft and came out of it not only with a huge hole at PG, but also a huge hole at PF. He paid a steep price to get a PG in trade, and now doesn’t have adequate assets to address his PF debacle. It’s really pretty damning stuff, and is the biggest reason this Team is currently where it’s at.

[thinktank]

whatever you think of Rosas, keep in mind that Saunders isn’t using many of his players properly.

Which players do you believe Saunders isn’t using in the roles Rosas envisioned for them?

Rubio is shooting too much and running the offense like it’s designed around him. Bad.

Edwards is a capable attacker and passer but not being used that way. Bad.

Juancho is a bench player being asked to start. Bad.

McDaniels gets zero opportunity. Bad.

JMac should be getting more time. Bad.

KAT should be posting up more. Bad.

That’s off the top of my head.



Saunders has squandered a LOT of this roster’s opportunities.

[jodaman01]

whatever you think of Rosas, keep in mind that Saunders isn’t using many of his players properly.

Which players do you believe Saunders isn’t using in the roles Rosas envisioned for them?

Rubio is shooting too much and running the offense like it’s designed around him. Bad.

Edwards is a capable attacker and passer but not being used that way. Bad.

Juancho is a bench player being asked to start. Bad.

McDaniels gets zero opportunity. Bad.

JMac should be getting more time. Bad.

KAT should be posting up more. Bad.

That’s off the top of my head.



Saunders has squandered a LOT of this roster’s opportunities.

Thanks.

The only thing I see on this list that I would consider being something that would make a difference is KAT posting up more. Him being out takes away any consistency and ability to add and subtract to his role in the offense with DLO and Beasley.

They just need to put Edwards in the starting lineup and play the shit out of him.....live with the good and bad. He has the right attitude and confidence.

Other than that none of this really changes the Wolves current situation much IMO.

I like McDaniels, he got play yesterday....play him more and see if he can learn offense and defense.....he’s clearly a project but I don’t hate how they are kind of spoon feeding him.