Where does the defense come from on this team?

[LordNu]

Ervin Johnson.

[somuchyummy]

here's what i don't like about the great O trumps great D argument. with guys who are all O and no D, they can't guard anybody. so, in effect, that average offensive player for the other team now becomes a threat, and sometimes a serious threat - for no other reason than that he's guarded by your all O crapass defender. on the other hand, if you've got a stellar D artist against a stellar offensive player - at least he can throw up a roadblock or two to make life miserable for the O star. there's resistance there and sometimes a dent is made.

[thinktank]

Ervin Johnson.

Something to be said for a big bad motherfucking center.

[thinktank]

you do know that numbers wise - lopez was ranked like #2 or 3 last year for centers, right? he's absolutely a positive high impact defender at this point in his career. brandon anderson, of Sports Raid, just ranked him NUMBER ONE at the center spot. he's the anchor of the best D in the league - and he ranks 2nd in the league in DPBM and DPIPM - trailing only giannis. you don't do that by being enes kanter - or karl anthony towns.

Again, I’m saying the Bucks are absolutely one e best D teams.

But why wasn’t Lopez good in every other year? He was meh. I said maybe. Maybe he turned it on now. Bucks are good in D. I give! I give!

[LordNu]

Ervin Johnson.

Something to be said for a big bad motherfucking center.

Always overlooked as the anchor of our D. Hassell was also great before the rule change.

[witljon]

top five defensive teams in the league this year - combined 235-85

worst five defensive teams in the league this year - combined 109-206

hmmmm. hmmm.

How does the top 5 and bottom 5 offensive teams compare?

[somuchyummy]

top five defensive teams in the league this year - combined 235-85

worst five defensive teams in the league this year - combined 109-206

hmmmm. hmmm.

How does the top 5 and bottom 5 offensive teams compare?

it's similarly skewed - you're right, but marginally less so than the D rankings. top 5 scoring teams went 205-119. worst five scoring teams went 111-215. but here's maybe the most important stat for us. twolves were the 9th best ranked offense in the league and the 21st ranked D in the league. but we were 28th in the league in win/loss %. rubes seem to want to improve the team by having our offense rank higher - when it's clear that the greatest and most significant chances for improving our record can be realized with an improvement on the defensive end.

[zeitgeist]

The biggest issue is that Towns is such a negative defender at the most important defensive position. He needs to be paired with a big man that can be an elite team defender, and that should be the biggest priority. Our offense has a lot of promise but yeah, there's not much hope that we will be a good defensive team unless we see some major roster changes.

[Thrillkill]

The biggest issue is that Towns is such a negative defender at the most important defensive position. He needs to be paired with a big man that can be an elite team defender, and that should be the biggest priority. Our offense has a lot of promise but yeah, there's not much hope that we will be a good defensive team unless we see some major roster changes.

The biggest problem is why he's such a negative defender. He doesn't try hard enough. And unfortunately Rodman next to him doesn't make him any less of a liability. Teams are too good these days at identifying and exploiting players like him. He is either targeted mercilessly in P&R or taken to the perimeter, or teams exploit his slow help. But when he tries he's good. He was good early last year and the idiot and his boy both beat him down by giving him no big man help and then made it clear that D doesn't matter.

Give him big men, not man, men to help him. He needs to play less minutes and not be responsible for every rebound and every block when he's on the floor. And D is contagious. It's also 10 times more team than offense is. He claims to only want to win. He claims to want to lead. I saw that early last year. But you can't try for 10 games and quit He has so much sway with this team he easily could have said I want big man help right now and they would have had to listen.

He can do it. We all saw it with KG here and early last year. That he doesn't consistently makes me just hate him sometimes. I just can't stand lack of effort from a professional. And another year of it and I'm through with him and we should be too before his value is that of Kevin Love. But all he has to do is try. Care. And he's a top 5 MVP every year. You add solid positional D with 3 blk+stl and that's a ton more wins and stats that get MVP votes. And if he can't figure that out then he's a loser. If your best player is a loser you have a losing team. There is no hiding him or making up for that.

[thinktank]

You can hide him next to a PF who can guard PnRs and is your primary rim protector.

You’re not hiding him next to Saric, Avdija, Juancho types.

[somuchyummy]

i'll agree with this. the bucks are such a great defensive team not simply because they have a bunch of good to great defenders - but because their best defender, the hub of their defense on which it all revolves - is also their best player and leader of the team.

KAT is never going to be the defender that the freak is - he doesn't have it in him. but he has GOT to realize that, in order for the wolves to be a truly competitive team, HE has to step up and become at least a good defender night in and night out. an asset, not a liability. i don't care if culver plays great D, and they pick up a FA who is good on that end and they land another draft pick who plays good D - it all will continue to fall apart if the main man regularly sucks at it and doesn't figure it out.

[KATMANDUDE]

i'll agree with this. the bucks are such a great defensive team not simply because they have a bunch of good to great defenders - but because their best defender, the hub of their defense on which it all revolves - is also their best player and leader of the team.

KAT is never going to be the defender that the freak is - he doesn't have it in him. but he has GOT to realize that, in order for the wolves to be a truly competitive team, HE has to step up and become at least a good defender night in and night out. an asset, not a liability. i don't care if culver plays great D, and they pick up a FA who is good on that end and they land another draft pick who plays good D - it all will continue to fall apart if the main man regularly sucks at it and doesn't figure it out.

Absolutely TRUE!

[Thrillkill]

You can hide him next to a PF who can guard PnRs and is your primary rim protector.

You’re not hiding him next to Saric, Avdija, Juancho types.

You can't. You think teams just attack our good P&R defender? No they target Towns. Saw it all last year. You are certainly correct that you can't hide him next to those guys. But even with the perfect 4 who can move his feet in P&R and block a shot you can still too easily pick out Towns.

But D is contagious. He watches a guy blocking shots and getting deflections and pumping the crowd up and he should want some of that too. Remember those first 10 or so last year when he was blocking a ton of shots and screaming like KG. Then they beat him down plying alone with guys you mentioned and it stopped dead in it's tracks.

He can play excellent D. We all saw it his rookie year and those 10 or so last year. We owe it to him and ourselves to give him some help on D and the boards. Then he owes it to us and his teammates to give the effort required to win. He does and we take a huge step. He doesn't and he need to get to stepping out of here. He is the best big and a top 5 player easy with the kind of D he has shown before. He would surpass KG. Without it he's Love and I want him gone.

[Thrillkill]

i'll agree with this. the bucks are such a great defensive team not simply because they have a bunch of good to great defenders - but because their best defender, the hub of their defense on which it all revolves - is also their best player and leader of the team.

KAT is never going to be the defender that the freak is - he doesn't have it in him. but he has GOT to realize that, in order for the wolves to be a truly competitive team, HE has to step up and become at least a good defender night in and night out. an asset, not a liability. i don't care if culver plays great D, and they pick up a FA who is good on that end and they land another draft pick who plays good D - it all will continue to fall apart if the main man regularly sucks at it and doesn't figure it out.

I still believe that he can make an all defense team with legit effort. When engaged he blocks a ton of shots. Block a ton and then guys start to rush shots because so many of modern NBA guys are pansies that would rather throw up a weak looking miss than get a tough move blocked.

But has there ever been a worse D philosophy for Towns than the switch everything bullshit fake D? Then play no size with him? His effort has been a joke. Surpassed by the joke of our strategy of fake D and no size.

[thinktank]

Even if Towns is targeted, the weak side big needs to rotate in behind him.

We can do this, guys.

Great teams protect their best offensive players.

We’re not reinventing any wheels here.

[Thrillkill]

Even if Towns is targeted, the weak side big needs to rotate in behind him.

We can do this, guys.

Great teams protect their best offensive players.

We’re not reinventing any wheels here.

Offenses reinvented the wheel. Used to be identify a mismatch and exploit. Now it's manufacture mismatches. And we did about the stupidest thing possible switching to the fake ass switch everything D. Towns scrambling around looking for a man and then standing under the hoop facing the wrong way getting dunked on was maddening. For starters the moron copycats not understanding that the only teams that can defend that way are long, tall, good defenders is ,well, par for the course. Typical shortcut to thinking.

And at least tied for the biggest issue with our D was our offense. Towns and Russell both twice as good half court players as high tempo players. The low % 3 jacking? It's ridiculous that they can't see the bad effect that has on D. Can they really not see that shooting a higher%, shooting more FT's and playing half court ball allows the D to get back and set? That it takes time off the clock taking the ball out of bounds? That teams can't leak out nearly as much? That teams panic when they start missing 3's and we are getting 2's every possession?

You can't just protect a big with another good defensive big anymore. But you can play your best defenders. You can play the help and recover D that we should be playing. You can fucking play zone now. Why is Towns so far from the basket so often? You can not ridiculously prioritize taking away 3's and have a dunk line to the rim all game. And you can play the proper offense for your roster. All we did last year was everything possible to make Towns look worse. He certainly had his part but making zero effort to correct it because it's not important shows the utter lack of basketball knowledge on the part of our owner and FO and the utter lack of balls from our coach.

Hope against hope that we have a new owner, GM and coach by the time we are making roster decisions. Then at least we will know if Towns ever buys in enough to make us a winner.

[thinktank]

Even if Towns is targeted, the weak side big needs to rotate in behind him.

We can do this, guys.

Great teams protect their best offensive players.

We’re not reinventing any wheels here.

Offenses reinvented the wheel. Used to be identify a mismatch and exploit. Now it's manufacture mismatches. And we did about the stupidest thing possible switching to the fake ass switch everything D. Towns scrambling around looking for a man and then standing under the hoop facing the wrong way getting dunked on was maddening. For starters the moron copycats not understanding that the only teams that can defend that way are long, tall, good defenders is ,well, par for the course. Typical shortcut to thinking.

And at least tied for the biggest issue with our D was our offense. Towns and Russell both twice as good half court players as high tempo players. The low % 3 jacking? It's ridiculous that they can't see the bad effect that has on D. Can they really not see that shooting a higher%, shooting more FT's and playing half court ball allows the D to get back and set? That it takes time off the clock taking the ball out of bounds? That teams can't leak out nearly as much? That teams panic when they start missing 3's and we are getting 2's every possession?

You can't just protect a big with another good defensive big anymore. But you can play your best defenders. You can play the help and recover D that we should be playing. You can fucking play zone now. Why is Towns so far from the basket so often? You can not ridiculously prioritize taking away 3's and have a dunk line to the rim all game. And you can play the proper offense for your roster. All we did last year was everything possible to make Towns look worse. He certainly had his part but making zero effort to correct it because it's not important shows the utter lack of basketball knowledge on the part of our owner and FO and the utter lack of balls from our coach.

Hope against hope that we have a new owner, GM and coach by the time we are making roster decisions. Then at least we will know if Towns ever buys in enough to make us a winner.

Definitely did not read.

[Thrillkill]

Even if Towns is targeted, the weak side big needs to rotate in behind him.

We can do this, guys.

Great teams protect their best offensive players.

We’re not reinventing any wheels here.

Offenses reinvented the wheel. Used to be identify a mismatch and exploit. Now it's manufacture mismatches. And we did about the stupidest thing possible switching to the fake ass switch everything D. Towns scrambling around looking for a man and then standing under the hoop facing the wrong way getting dunked on was maddening. For starters the moron copycats not understanding that the only teams that can defend that way are long, tall, good defenders is ,well, par for the course. Typical shortcut to thinking.

And at least tied for the biggest issue with our D was our offense. Towns and Russell both twice as good half court players as high tempo players. The low % 3 jacking? It's ridiculous that they can't see the bad effect that has on D. Can they really not see that shooting a higher%, shooting more FT's and playing half court ball allows the D to get back and set? That it takes time off the clock taking the ball out of bounds? That teams can't leak out nearly as much? That teams panic when they start missing 3's and we are getting 2's every possession?

You can't just protect a big with another good defensive big anymore. But you can play your best defenders. You can play the help and recover D that we should be playing. You can fucking play zone now. Why is Towns so far from the basket so often? You can not ridiculously prioritize taking away 3's and have a dunk line to the rim all game. And you can play the proper offense for your roster. All we did last year was everything possible to make Towns look worse. He certainly had his part but making zero effort to correct it because it's not important shows the utter lack of basketball knowledge on the part of our owner and FO and the utter lack of balls from our coach.

Hope against hope that we have a new owner, GM and coach by the time we are making roster decisions. Then at least we will know if Towns ever buys in enough to make us a winner.

Definitely did not read.

But felt the need to post. OK.

Needy. And definitely did not play basketball.

[somuchyummy]

great teams usually have two way players as their best players. championship teams lately - let's say the last 12 years - have all been really good to great defensive teams, and often led defensively by their best players. the only two outliers in this were the cavs when they won - but bron WAS their best defender and he had an absolutely superhuman series overall - and the other would be dallas, with dirk as their best player. but in that case, he WAS surrounded by great defenders - kidd, brewer, chandler, caron butler, shawn marion - they had a bunch of really decent guys around dirk to offset his limitations. but generally - look at championship teams - and the great majority have been led defensively by their stars.

[Oriole81]

great teams usually have two way players as their best players. championship teams lately - let's say the last 12 years - have all been really good to great defensive teams, and often led defensively by their best players. the only two outliers in this were the cavs when they won - but bron WAS their best defender and he had an absolutely superhuman series overall - and the other would be dallas, with dirk as their best player. but in that case, he WAS surrounded by great defenders - kidd, brewer, chandler, caron butler, shawn marion - they had a bunch of really decent guys around dirk to offset his limitations. but generally - look at championship teams - and the great majority have been led defensively by their stars.

Toronto couldn't get over the hump and into the finals until they swapped out Derozan for Kawhi and Jonas for Gasol.

[thinktank]

Offenses reinvented the wheel. Used to be identify a mismatch and exploit. Now it's manufacture mismatches. And we did about the stupidest thing possible switching to the fake ass switch everything D. Towns scrambling around looking for a man and then standing under the hoop facing the wrong way getting dunked on was maddening. For starters the moron copycats not understanding that the only teams that can defend that way are long, tall, good defenders is ,well, par for the course. Typical shortcut to thinking.

And at least tied for the biggest issue with our D was our offense. Towns and Russell both twice as good half court players as high tempo players. The low % 3 jacking? It's ridiculous that they can't see the bad effect that has on D. Can they really not see that shooting a higher%, shooting more FT's and playing half court ball allows the D to get back and set? That it takes time off the clock taking the ball out of bounds? That teams can't leak out nearly as much? That teams panic when they start missing 3's and we are getting 2's every possession?

You can't just protect a big with another good defensive big anymore. But you can play your best defenders. You can play the help and recover D that we should be playing. You can fucking play zone now. Why is Towns so far from the basket so often? You can not ridiculously prioritize taking away 3's and have a dunk line to the rim all game. And you can play the proper offense for your roster. All we did last year was everything possible to make Towns look worse. He certainly had his part but making zero effort to correct it because it's not important shows the utter lack of basketball knowledge on the part of our owner and FO and the utter lack of balls from our coach.

Hope against hope that we have a new owner, GM and coach by the time we are making roster decisions. Then at least we will know if Towns ever buys in enough to make us a winner.

Definitely did not read.

But felt the need to post. OK.

Needy. And definitely did not play basketball.

As usual, you couldn’t be more wrong. I played my whole life and still play.

Fuck you.

And shut your dumb mouth.

PS. You already knew I was a baller but you’re too stupid to remember.

[somuchyummy]

take it outside guys. this thread is about defense.

[salamander]

take it outside guys. this thread is about defense.

Or lack of defense and how we will never win a playoff series because of it.

I don't give two shits how good our offense is, this team is a joke because of it's defense. Thanks KAT.
Team leader...

[somuchyummy]

well, that's the truth. this team will only go as far as KAT's defense. it's as simple as that. he gets better, we get better. he continues to suck, we'll continue to suck.

[Thrillkill]

Definitely did not read.

But felt the need to post. OK.

Needy. And definitely did not play basketball.

As usual, you couldn’t be more wrong. I played my whole life and still play.

Fuck you.

And shut your dumb mouth.

PS. You already knew I was a baller but you’re too stupid to remember.

Yeah, you seem like an unwavering Mr. Clutch.

Can't get in your head at all.

[Thrillkill]

take it outside guys. this thread is about defense.

Or lack of defense and how we will never win a playoff series because of it.

I don't give two shits how good our offense is, this team is a joke because of it's defense. Thanks KAT.
Team leader...

Add at least half of that to the other team leaders in the idiot and his boy. Kat was a monster early on D and just quit when they gave him no help and let him know D didn't matter. Certainly his fault for not demanding as the leader that he get some help. Certainly his fault for quitting. But shit, you can give your max "star" some help. You can let him know you value D.

[salamander]

well, that's the truth. this team will only go as far as KAT's defense. it's as simple as that. he gets better, we get better. he continues to suck, we'll continue to suck.

Pretty much. Id bet if we found a couple willing defenders to pair with him he'd be better. I just don't see the fire great players have. He's a #2 on a great team.

[salamander]

take it outside guys. this thread is about defense.

Or lack of defense and how we will never win a playoff series because of it.

I don't give two shits how good our offense is, this team is a joke because of it's defense. Thanks KAT.
Team leader...

Add at least half of that to the other team leaders in the idiot and his boy. Kat was a monster early on D and just quit when they gave him no help and let him know D didn't matter. Certainly his fault for not demanding as the leader that he get some help. Certainly his fault for quitting. But shit, you can give your max "star" some help. You can let him know you value D.

can't disagree.

[Thrillkill]

well, that's the truth. this team will only go as far as KAT's defense. it's as simple as that. he gets better, we get better. he continues to suck, we'll continue to suck.

Just don't suck. That's all that is required to win. Want to win a lot? Embrace how much you get in guys heads flying over and blocking a shot. No bigger critic of him than me but I have always recognized the shit we did to reinforce his lack of D effort. Got him KG who was showing him the way. Then Glen Taylor ran him off because he didn't like him sitting the last 5 games in a lost season? Then gave him shit and bought him out? Guess why he was mad. Couldn't sell 10 extra tickets with KG on the floor. Who is Kat with another year of KG? Choosing him over Butler? And that was an organization choice not Butlers. Empowering a guy who hadn't earned it. Then this new idiot and his offense that doesn't fit him. The defense that doesn't fit him. The lineups that don't help him. Basically telling him don't bother with D. Then getting his no D friend to appease him?

We have done Kat no favors while we are doing him constant favors. I sure do wish he was a KG level competitor naturally but he's not. He needs to be shown the way and half of that is giving him the way that helps him. I would pay a lot of money for a half hour wit him. I would show him non stop vids of him frustrated by good D and whining and not getting back. Then ask him if he really wants to be the pussy or the guy that other guys are whining about. Superstars don't show that kind of emotion they cause it in others. Superstars might get mad. But they don't cry. Stat padders and losers cry.

Last time but I am again 100% hoping this is the year. New owner and FO. New coach. Couple teammates with heart to help him. Then he figures out that stuffing a guy is at least as cool as stuffing on a guy. If it doesn't happen this year it's over. It will never happen and we have to cut bait and sell before the bottom falls out.

[thinktank]

But felt the need to post. OK.

Needy. And definitely did not play basketball.

As usual, you couldn’t be more wrong. I played my whole life and still play.

Fuck you.

And shut your dumb mouth.

PS. You already knew I was a baller but you’re too stupid to remember.

Yeah, you seem like an unwavering Mr. Clutch.

Can't get in your head at all.

“Seem”.

This board isn’t real life. Love to break it to you.