SB Nation: How the Minnesota Timberwolves squandered Kevin Garnett's prime, then lost him

[flexbuffchest]

SB Nation always does pretty good videos like these.


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[LordNu]

I really don't want to relive this.

[Beef Supreme]

Like we need to see a video on that.


We fucking lived it!

[jodaman01]

SB Nation always does pretty good videos like these.


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Step 1: See MN Timberwolves fan.
Step 2: Kick MN Timberwolves fan in the seeds.


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GO WOLVES!!

[YBBR]

Got like 3 minutes in, and was like, yeah, this is too depressing.

[Subarudrivingsnowflake]

Whatever like Garnett didn’t have a hand in us losing too!!

His contract locked out the league and hamstringed the wolves the whole time he was here. It’s hard to bring in FA talent when one player is taking up 50% of the salary cap.

Garnett is a great 2 way player, but he never was a take over the game type of guy. Even in Boston it was Paul’s team and he took the shots.

On top of it he basically started this whole super team debacle we’re still seeing today where players take pay cuts to win championships. Thanks for ruining the league and the timberwolves!!!

[somuchyummy]

i'll agree with some of this/ KG is easily the greatest wolf of all time, but he did himself no favors from a competitive standpoint with the % of cap he pulled. i guess he obviously did himself a financial favor - but on the court, it hamstrung the wolves for years - especially considering we have an owner like glen who watches his pennies. you're not telling the entire story if you leave this part of the equation out.

[jodaman01]

i'll agree with some of this/ KG is easily the greatest wolf of all time, but he did himself no favors from a competitive standpoint with the % of cap he pulled. i guess he obviously did himself a financial favor - but on the court, it hamstrung the wolves for years - especially considering we have an owner like glen who watches his pennies. you're not telling the entire story if you leave this part of the equation out.

You also have to account for the real fact that star NBA players have never wanted to come to Minnesota. We still aren’t high on anyone’s list. If you can’t draw players here through FA or trades, we know the results all to well. It all falls to drafting then, and the Wolves futile record there is the stuff of legend.

What was KG supposed to do, say no to the money being thrown at him.....we would have gotten it elsewhere. He earned his money here....all of it, and that’s one of the best things I can say about him.

GO WOLVES!!

[somuchyummy]

but KG was a top 5 player in the league - i do think more high end vets would have thought about it - to team with him - if there had been more cash available. KG took a deal that limited that option. we got guys like peeler and hammonds and washed up todd days and dennis scotts and laphonso ellis and kendall gill and rod strickland. the troy hudsons of the world. bargain basement club.

[LordNu]

but KG was a top 5 player in the league - i do think more high end vets would have thought about it - to team with him - if there had been more cash available. KG took a deal that limited that option. we got guys like peeler and hammonds and washed up todd days and dennis scotts and laphonso ellis and kendall gill and rod strickland. the troy hudsons of the world. bargain basement club.

Wasn't it more the era where superstars wanted to take a team on their back? I just remember every team seemed to have one central player they'd build around, and it was rare if there were two stars (Kobe, Shaq).

[YBBR]

Yeah, but KG was a guy that did deserve his max deal. He won MVP, easily one of the best players in the league. It was more the contracts they dealt out to stiffs and marginal players that really hampered them. The Troy Hudson's of the world.

[somuchyummy]

some of those teams though - even the ones who finished "okay" - like the 2001-02 wolves - 3rd in the midwest at 51-31. they had garnett, sczerbiak, peeler, rasho, hudson, joe smith. 7 years into his career and wally is his robin.

compare it to the kings that year - first in pacific 59-23. mike bibby, doug christie, vlade divac, bobby jackson, jim jackson, peja stojakovic, hedo turkoglu, chris webber.

IMO there's no comparison of the overall talent level. i would bet if you did a little perusal around the league rosters at various times in KG's career you'd find disparities like this up the kazoo.

[LordNu]

some of those teams though - even the ones who finished "okay" - like the 2001-02 wolves - 3rd in the midwest at 51-31. they had garnett, sczerbiak, peeler, rasho, hudson, joe smith. 7 years into his career and wally is his robin.

compare it to the kings that year - first in pacific 59-23. mike bibby, doug christie, vlade divac, bobby jackson, jim jackson, peja stojakovic, hedo turkoglu, chris webber.

IMO there's no comparison of the overall talent level. i would bet if you did a little perusal around the league rosters at various times in KG's career you'd find disparities like this up the kazoo.

That is sort of my point about the difference with the NBA today. You built around one star player with great players. This is diverging into the change in the current way the NBA is played/officiated, but many of the stars today would only be good players in the yesteryears as their glaring deficiencies would be outed every game.

Man, remember when Mike James was an 'amazing haul' who KG personally called and got to sign with us for the MLE? What KG did with the little he had around him was pretty amazing. I think the Joe Smith fiasco is what really killed us though, as we had no leverage, whether it was drafting a great player, or trading for a great player.

[jodaman01]

some of those teams though - even the ones who finished "okay" - like the 2001-02 wolves - 3rd in the midwest at 51-31. they had garnett, sczerbiak, peeler, rasho, hudson, joe smith. 7 years into his career and wally is his robin.

compare it to the kings that year - first in pacific 59-23. mike bibby, doug christie, vlade divac, bobby jackson, jim jackson, peja stojakovic, hedo turkoglu, chris webber.

IMO there's no comparison of the overall talent level. i would bet if you did a little perusal around the league rosters at various times in KG's career you'd find disparities like this up the kazoo.

That is sort of my point about the difference with the NBA today. You built around one star player with great players. This is diverging into the change in the current way the NBA is played/officiated, but many of the stars today would only be good players in the yesteryears as their glaring deficiencies would be outed every game.

Man, remember when Mike James was an 'amazing haul' who KG personally called and got to sign with us for the MLE? What KG did with the little he had around him was pretty amazing. I think the Joe Smith fiasco is what really killed us though, as we had no leverage, whether it was drafting a great player, or trading for a great player.

Great takes!!!

GO WOLVES!!

[somuchyummy]

some of those teams though - even the ones who finished "okay" - like the 2001-02 wolves - 3rd in the midwest at 51-31. they had garnett, sczerbiak, peeler, rasho, hudson, joe smith. 7 years into his career and wally is his robin.

compare it to the kings that year - first in pacific 59-23. mike bibby, doug christie, vlade divac, bobby jackson, jim jackson, peja stojakovic, hedo turkoglu, chris webber.

IMO there's no comparison of the overall talent level. i would bet if you did a little perusal around the league rosters at various times in KG's career you'd find disparities like this up the kazoo.

That is sort of my point about the difference with the NBA today. You built around one star player with great players. This is diverging into the change in the current way the NBA is played/officiated, but many of the stars today would only be good players in the yesteryears as their glaring deficiencies would be outed every game.

Man, remember when Mike James was an 'amazing haul' who KG personally called and got to sign with us for the MLE? What KG did with the little he had around him was pretty amazing. I think the Joe Smith fiasco is what really killed us though, as we had no leverage, whether it was drafting a great player, or trading for a great player.

the joe smith thing was such a buzz kill. and made all the worse by the fact that, as yet another overall number 1, he was just such a mundane player. 4 years with us with a line of 10/6/1. bleh. that 10/6/1 line wound up being about his career average - 16 years in the league, so there's that - but for a former number 1, he was simply the definition of a journeyman. he played for TWELVE freaking teams.

[RubeTube]

KG wasn't good enough to win a ring without other stars around him.

He was the first to join a "Big 3" and he finally won one.

Don't beat yourselves up over it, Froobs. He needed other stars to win and they were never coming here.

It will be Carl's legacy as well.

[LordNu]

KG wasn't good enough to win a ring without other stars around him.

He was the first to join a "Big 3" and he finally won one.

Don't beat yourselves up over it, Froobs. He needed other stars to win and they were never coming here.

It will be Carl's legacy as well.

Tell me we wouldn't have won it had Cassell not had back spasms in the playoffs. "Glass Ankles" was permanently out that season too. We relied on who, Darrick Martin???

[j2j]

15 minutes of watching your own mother die... Thanks for this.

[somuchyummy]

KG wasn't good enough to win a ring without other stars around him.

He was the first to join a "Big 3" and he finally won one.

Don't beat yourselves up over it, Froobs. He needed other stars to win and they were never coming here.

It will be Carl's legacy as well.

who is Carl? Gerbschmidt?

[flexbuffchest]

People blaming KG for the lack of success

This city doesn't deserve a team if that's how a top ~20 player in history is treated

[Silversword]

I was watching the FSN rebroadcast of the Wolves' first victory over MJ's Bulls the other day and it reminded me how much talent this team had in 97. We had KG, Steph, Googs, Terry Porter and a decent supporting cast that included Sam Mitchell, Anthony Peeler, Michael Williams... Watching the game, I was reminded just how good this team was. I remember reading at the time that the Wolves had the best young core in basketball.

And then Googs left via FA and we got nothing for him. And then Steph decided that he couldn't be second banana to KG and we traded him for stop-n-pop and the draft pick that became Wally. And then a panicked front office signed Joe Smith to an illegal contract and poof, all the positivity from 97-98 was gone.

[zeitgeist]

People blaming KG for the lack of success

This city doesn't deserve a team if that's how a top ~20 player in history is treated

Top 10.

KG wasn't good enough to win a ring without other stars around him.

He was the first to join a "Big 3" and he finally won one.

Don't beat yourselves up over it, Froobs. He needed other stars to win and they were never coming here.

It will be Carl's legacy as well.

A "big 3" that weren't even favorites to come out of the Eastern Conference Finals. Every player in history has needed help to win.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

I’ll just echo what some others have stated. Blaming KG for the relative mediocrity of those 12 years is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t care about his contract. Surround him with the right pieces and you could have been a legitimate playoff contender for years. They didn’t. He was consistently a top 4 player in the NBA during the 1999-2007 stretch and is a top 15 player all time imo. Very happy for him that Boston did have players around him.

[bri]

If only Marbury didn't want out.. well and if we didn't give out some really stupid contracts

[YBBR]

If only Marbury didn't want out.. well and if we didn't give out some really stupid contracts

The biggest thing to the KG downfall was likely the selection of players they wanted to resign and give contracts. Almost universally those players were paid vastly over their market value. Also if Terrell Brandon was healthy, we didn't gove Joe Smith money under the table, we resigned Chauncey, Sam Cassell doesn't get hurt etc...

[flexbuffchest]

People blaming KG for the lack of success

This city doesn't deserve a team if that's how a top ~20 player in history is treated

Top 10.

KG wasn't good enough to win a ring without other stars around him.

He was the first to join a "Big 3" and he finally won one.

Don't beat yourselves up over it, Froobs. He needed other stars to win and they were never coming here.

It will be Carl's legacy as well.

A "big 3" that weren't even favorites to come out of the Eastern Conference Finals. Every player in history has needed help to win.

That's how I truly view him. Just giving him a more conservative rank since most don't see him as a top 10.

[YBBR]

I don't think KG is top 10. Advanced defensive numbers this and that, I'm not taking any of the top 10 guys off to have KG on my team.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Chamberlain
Bird
Olajuwon
Duncan
Shaq

(Loose order but yeah)

[LordNu]

I don't think KG is top 10. Advanced defensive numbers this and that, I'm not taking any of the top 10 guys off to have KG on my team.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Chamberlain
Bird
Olajuwon
Duncan
Shaq

(Loose order but yeah)

Duncan.

[YBBR]

I don't think KG is top 10. Advanced defensive numbers this and that, I'm not taking any of the top 10 guys off to have KG on my team.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Chamberlain
Bird
Olajuwon
Duncan
Shaq

(Loose order but yeah)

Duncan.

Oh God, I want none of this debate again.

[zeitgeist]

I don't think KG is top 10. Advanced defensive numbers this and that, I'm not taking any of the top 10 guys off to have KG on my team.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Chamberlain
Bird
Olajuwon
Duncan
Shaq

(Loose order but yeah)

That's fine, most people who would have KG in the top 10 do so over the likes of Bird, Magic and Chamberlain. Wilt is a massively misunderstood player, he wasn't nearly as good of an offensive player as people think, at least the seasons where we give him the most credit, like when he was averaging 50 ppg, he was a great defender though. But to agree with that you have to be on board with the broader philosophy about how you determine offensive value. It's not about points or assists strictly speaking, it is about how much a player lifts his team's offense when he's on the court and Wilt didn't do that when he was averaging those obscene point per game numbers.

Bird and Magic, they have an immense built in bias because of what they did to save the NBA, but both guys played on immensely talented teams and their careers were relatively short compared to a guy like KG. A lot of it depends on how much value you put on longevity.