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Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

A place to discuss the MN Timberwolves

Would you Trade the Top 5 Pick, Johnson, & Omari for Aaron Gordon?

Yes, he would be a core piece with high talent and same timeline as KAT and DLO
4
21%
No, draft another rookie and keep waiting to contend and develop.
15
79%
 
Total votes: 19

jodaman01
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by jodaman01 »

j2j wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:32 pm The Standrew Bobos hate Beasley
I don’t have one bad thing to say about Beasley.

I like him and I like the way he carries himself on the court, he plays with some anger/fire and it’s fun to watch.

I haven’t seen a season of him as a starter yet with DLO and KAT to give a critical assessment much less “hate” or “love” the guy. No real time for the worts on his game to be revealed (and there will be worts). The rough part for Rosas is now figuring out based on his sample size without KAT if he wants to pay him and make him the starter next to those two in his “system” for the foreseeable future.

GO WOLVES!! :thumbsup:
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somuchyummy
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by somuchyummy »

can't get inside players' heads - but it just "seems" watching the two, that when andrew gets the ball he's "oh... i have the ball... hmmm" and with beasley it's more like "GIVE ME THE FUCKING BALL!"
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by jodaman01 »

j2j wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:33 pm "Screaming for Rosas's head"... More WolvesChat stupidity. As if Rosas or Glen knows this place exists, let alone reads the ramblings of schmucks on a recipe swapping forum.
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KATMANDUDE
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by KATMANDUDE »

I'd offer: Top Five pick +James Johnson (salary matching) for Aaron Gordan plus Magic's FRP (currently #15).

Why?
The top of the draft this year sucks, Everyone, with the possible exception of Wiseman, has major flaws & Wiseman doesn't fill a need.
1. Edwards is a chucker. I think he'll be the top scorer coming out of this draft, but at a low efficiency.
2. Toppin is more a center than PF in the Wolves scheme. A MUCH BETTER (but older) version of Naz Reid.
3. Avdija checks a lot of boxes, but is such a poor free throw shooter with questionable perimeter shooting.

If I had the #1 pick and couldn't trade it, I'd probably take Wiseman as the BPA.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by SO_MONEY »

KATMANDUDE wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:23 pm I'd offer: Top Five pick +James Johnson (salary matching) for Aaron Gordan plus Magic's FRP (currently #15).
That would be more realistic. If at 5 or so. If you get #1-2 you might look to trade down into that range and still pull this deal off or one like it.
mlhouse
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by mlhouse »

SO_MONEY wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:05 pm
KATMANDUDE wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:23 pm I'd offer: Top Five pick +James Johnson (salary matching) for Aaron Gordan plus Magic's FRP (currently #15).
That would be more realistic. If at 5 or so. If you get #1-2 you might look to trade down into that range and still pull this deal off or one like it.
Again, the obvious move it to take Toppin at $6-7 million rookie scale contract vs. Gordon at $19 million. But that is just the obvious move.

And, one of the biggest mistakes the NBA does is they put too much draft premium on age/upside. Obi Toppin is 22 freakin years old. He will probably have a 10-15 year career in the NBA and I think his very reachable upside is a much better NBA player than Aaron Gordon and his solid floor is a better player than James Johnson.
Thrillkill
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by Thrillkill »

mlhouse wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:10 pm
SO_MONEY wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:05 pm
KATMANDUDE wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:23 pm I'd offer: Top Five pick +James Johnson (salary matching) for Aaron Gordan plus Magic's FRP (currently #15).
That would be more realistic. If at 5 or so. If you get #1-2 you might look to trade down into that range and still pull this deal off or one like it.
Again, the obvious move it to take Toppin at $6-7 million rookie scale contract vs. Gordon at $19 million. But that is just the obvious move.

And, one of the biggest mistakes the NBA does is they put too much draft premium on age/upside. Obi Toppin is 22 freakin years old. He will probably have a 10-15 year career in the NBA and I think his very reachable upside is a much better NBA player than Aaron Gordon and his solid floor is a better player than James Johnson.
Here's what makes it more hilarious. Forget that an NBA player's prime is from 27-32. Forget that we would be signing his first big extension just as he's getting to his prime. Does anyone know Toppin's background? He played one year of high school. One. Know why he ended up at Dayton. Because he was a 6'5" non qualifier and had to sit a season. He grew 4 inches during that season. Then you hear the ludicrous notions that he's dominating because he's older than the guys who have played way more ball than him. He's kind of skinny and too old to fill out much though he just grew 4 inches 2 years ago. No upside. It's beyond stupid. Stupid like most idiot GM's. Ours being the poster boy.
KATMANDUDE
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by KATMANDUDE »

mlhouse wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:10 pm
SO_MONEY wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:05 pm
KATMANDUDE wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:23 pm I'd offer: Top Five pick +James Johnson (salary matching) for Aaron Gordan plus Magic's FRP (currently #15).
That would be more realistic. If at 5 or so. If you get #1-2 you might look to trade down into that range and still pull this deal off or one like it.
Again, the obvious move it to take Toppin at $6-7 million rookie scale contract vs. Gordon at $19 million. But that is just the obvious move.

And, one of the biggest mistakes the NBA does is they put too much draft premium on age/upside. Obi Toppin is 22 freakin years old. He will probably have a 10-15 year career in the NBA and I think his very reachable upside is a much better NBA player than Aaron Gordon and his solid floor is a better player than James Johnson.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you consider Toppin as a PF & I think of him as a center. His comparisons on NBA Draft Room are to a "stronger Drew Gooden" or Amar'e Stoudemire. Both C/PFs, so we're both sorta right. But the Wolves seem to be looking a that type as center only. So if you are going to get a mostly center type, why not just take the best one on the board (Wiseman) or trade the pick for something that fits better (Gordan).
mlhouse
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by mlhouse »

KATMANDUDE wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:01 pm
mlhouse wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:10 pm
SO_MONEY wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:05 pm

That would be more realistic. If at 5 or so. If you get #1-2 you might look to trade down into that range and still pull this deal off or one like it.
Again, the obvious move it to take Toppin at $6-7 million rookie scale contract vs. Gordon at $19 million. But that is just the obvious move.

And, one of the biggest mistakes the NBA does is they put too much draft premium on age/upside. Obi Toppin is 22 freakin years old. He will probably have a 10-15 year career in the NBA and I think his very reachable upside is a much better NBA player than Aaron Gordon and his solid floor is a better player than James Johnson.
I see where you're coming from, but I think you consider Toppin as a PF & I think of him as a center. His comparisons on NBA Draft Room are to a "stronger Drew Gooden" or Amar'e Stoudemire. Both C/PFs, so we're both sorta right. But the Wolves seem to be looking a that type as center only. So if you are going to get a mostly center type, why not just take the best one on the board (Wiseman) or trade the pick for something that fits better (Gordan).
I see no differnece between a center and a power forward to tell you the truth. Toppin is 6-9 and is a front court player that has all of the offensive skills you need including shooting range. As the 4th option he is really a good chemistry fit, a guy I think can average 16-18 points per game without needing the offense to come to him at all. Defensively, I think he is going to be better than Gordon in the NBA. NOt as good of an athlete, but a much better basketball with more "intangibles" than Gordon would ever dream of having.

And, in the end the fit is better. The cost is better. And I think he Toppin has more upside than Gordon's established NBA value.

With respect to Wiseman, he is for sure a player you need to kick the tires, and most of the rest of the car, on. On a pure athletic and talent basis you would be a fool not to. But is he all there? It will be interesting to see how the NBA evaluates him.
mlhouse
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by mlhouse »

NotRasho wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:27 pm
mlhouse wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:13 pm I see no differnece between a center and a power forward to tell you the truth. Toppin is 6-9 and is a front court player that has all of the offensive skills you need including shooting range. As the 4th option he is really a good chemistry fit, a guy I think can average 16-18 points per game without needing the offense to come to him at all. Defensively, I think he is going to be better than Gordon in the NBA. NOt as good of an athlete, but a much better basketball with more "intangibles" than Gordon would ever dream of having.

And, in the end the fit is better. The cost is better. And I think he Toppin has more upside than Gordon's established NBA value.

With respect to Wiseman, he is for sure a player you need to kick the tires, and most of the rest of the car, on. On a pure athletic and talent basis you would be a fool not to. But is he all there? It will be interesting to see how the NBA evaluates him.
Show me the 4th option who scored 16-18. :lol:

So what is Toppin doing for us as a 4th option? Standing around being mediocre defensively? Awesome.

On a team with 1 defensively challenged player (Beasley), 1 overly emotional erratic defender (Towns), and 1 admission gate (Dlo) the last thing we need is another guy whose only real value is scoring. Hell, Toppin isnt even a good rebounder for a PF. Why cant you people realize this?
Herengomez 15.9/36 after trade.

And this great defender who is going to overcome all of the team's defensive problems is?
mlhouse
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by mlhouse »

NotRasho wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:47 pm
mlhouse wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:42 pm
NotRasho wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:27 pm

Show me the 4th option who scored 16-18. :lol:

So what is Toppin doing for us as a 4th option? Standing around being mediocre defensively? Awesome.

On a team with 1 defensively challenged player (Beasley), 1 overly emotional erratic defender (Towns), and 1 admission gate (Dlo) the last thing we need is another guy whose only real value is scoring. Hell, Toppin isnt even a good rebounder for a PF. Why cant you people realize this?
Herengomez 15.9/36 after trade.

And this great defender who is going to overcome all of the team's defensive problems is?
Holy shit, you are going to try to use 10 games with no Towns to call POS soon to be former wolf Juan Sancho Hernandez Gomez a 4th option who averaged 16-18?

Honestly, do you not have any self respect? :lol:

Obi Toppin! lol JK, that would be an idiotic answer to that question! Who did you want again?
The shots are available. Of that there is no doubt. You let the offense flow through Russell and Towns, with Beasley as the perimeter shooter. Toppin can be used in a variety of ways because he is a versatile offensive player. He is going to get you critical points for sure.
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UnFadeable21
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by UnFadeable21 »

Make the trade, Rosas will do it and then we will see if ya really support Gersson or bandwagon each other like always.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by somuchyummy »

good points. i haven't made my mind up because actually i think my brain melted this week. but okongwu with our first and something else at 16 could be good - or achiuwa at 16 and surprise surprise at 3.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by mlhouse »

NotRasho wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:05 pm
mlhouse wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:53 pm
NotRasho wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:47 pm

Holy shit, you are going to try to use 10 games with no Towns to call POS soon to be former wolf Juan Sancho Hernandez Gomez a 4th option who averaged 16-18?

Honestly, do you not have any self respect? :lol:

Obi Toppin! lol JK, that would be an idiotic answer to that question! Who did you want again?
The shots are available. Of that there is no doubt. You let the offense flow through Russell and Towns, with Beasley as the perimeter shooter. Toppin can be used in a variety of ways because he is a versatile offensive player. He is going to get you critical points for sure.
No, there arent shots available. Gibson got 9 shots a game with Towns/Wiggins/Butler, and thats elevated because Butler missed 1/4 of the season and Thibs ran WAY too much offense through Gibson.

The reality is there are ROLE PLAYER shots available, but you want to fill that hole with a guy who isnt a role player offensively and doesnt do any of the intangible role player functions. So you waste what he can do while still leaving us with glaring weaknesses, its silly.

Would you trade our top pick for John Collins? Hes everything you hope Toppin can be, and nothing we need.
I think Toppin is the better player and he isn't going to need a contract extension that pays him $20 million or more per year.

Don't think so? Toppin is a much more versatile offensive player than Collins coming out of college as well as a much better defender.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by j2j »

Yeah... I dont see Rosas making that trade.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by UnFadeable21 »

Gordon is better than Toppin

Toppin is Derrick Williams 2.0
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by UnFadeable21 »

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somuchyummy
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by somuchyummy »

this makes me very sad.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by swenjj »

UnFadeable21 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:21 pm
If we win the lotto do you think he would give it a shot with Wiseman? Two bigs two number one picks..then two very good offensive guards. Then hope Culver improves. Hard to know much about Wiseman. The too of the draft in general is strange and now no March madness to see more
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by UnFadeable21 »

swenjj wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:07 pm
UnFadeable21 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:21 pm
If we win the lotto do you think he would give it a shot with Wiseman? Two bigs two number one picks..then two very good offensive guards. Then hope Culver improves. Hard to know much about Wiseman. The too of the draft in general is strange and now no March madness to see more
Can’t see Wiseman and KAT on the floor together.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by j2j »

UnFadeable21 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:21 pm
I think this screams support for what I've been saying all year. Make that 4 a big who can handle, pass, cut, shoot, switch on defense and they'd play 2 bigs. That's not Gorgui, that's not Vonleh. Isaac and Gordon are potentially that person. Same with Toppin. Same with Collins. Plus others in the draft. Not sure of theres a free agent that fits that. James Johnson and Launcho fit, would be nicer of JJ was younger.

Matter of finding the cheapest option both in contract and cost to obtain. Toppin probably fits that best when those things are considered.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by somuchyummy »

might be moving my hopes over to OO - but i know it won't happen. i just think the positives of his great D and rebounding, with the same high energy rim running and lob action outweighs the bennies of toppin's potential 3 pt shooting. i'm putting one foot on the back fender of the okongwu matatu!
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by Thrillkill »

UnFadeable21 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:12 pm Gordon is better than Toppin

Toppin is Derrick Williams 2.0
:lol:

Maybe golf would be good for you.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by Thrillkill »

somuchyummy wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:44 pm might be moving my hopes over to OO - but i know it won't happen. i just think the positives of his great D and rebounding, with the same high energy rim running and lob action outweighs the bennies of toppin's potential 3 pt shooting. i'm putting one foot on the back fender of the okongwu matatu!
Why? The idiot basically just told you he has no interest in him.

What a fucking clown. We are fucked until he's gone.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by swenjj »

UnFadeable21 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:49 pm
swenjj wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:07 pm
UnFadeable21 wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:21 pm
If we win the lotto do you think he would give it a shot with Wiseman? Two bigs two number one picks..then two very good offensive guards. Then hope Culver improves. Hard to know much about Wiseman. The too of the draft in general is strange and now no March madness to see more
Can’t see Wiseman and KAT on the floor together.
Since we always have great lottery luck maybe we win, warriors get 4.. trade them Wiseman for toppin and our next year's pick

You would think after 30 years the nba would pity us and make it happen 😆
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by somuchyummy »

Thrillkill wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:42 pm
somuchyummy wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:44 pm might be moving my hopes over to OO - but i know it won't happen. i just think the positives of his great D and rebounding, with the same high energy rim running and lob action outweighs the bennies of toppin's potential 3 pt shooting. i'm putting one foot on the back fender of the okongwu matatu!
Why? The idiot basically just told you he has no interest in him.

What a fucking clown. We are fucked until he's gone.
gersson is not the boss of me.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by Thrillkill »

somuchyummy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:10 am
Thrillkill wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:42 pm
somuchyummy wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:44 pm might be moving my hopes over to OO - but i know it won't happen. i just think the positives of his great D and rebounding, with the same high energy rim running and lob action outweighs the bennies of toppin's potential 3 pt shooting. i'm putting one foot on the back fender of the okongwu matatu!
Why? The idiot basically just told you he has no interest in him.

What a fucking clown. We are fucked until he's gone.
gersson is not the boss of me.
He'll be the death of you.
mlhouse
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by mlhouse »

somuchyummy wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:44 pm might be moving my hopes over to OO - but i know it won't happen. i just think the positives of his great D and rebounding, with the same high energy rim running and lob action outweighs the bennies of toppin's potential 3 pt shooting. i'm putting one foot on the back fender of the okongwu matatu!
Right now, I think when all the draft evaluation is completed Okongwu will be at the top of the draft. I am not saying I would draft him first but I think that is where NBA evaluators will put him.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by somuchyummy »

i think at three he'd be great. i mean, what's not to love? if there is one thing that might diminish his impact - it's size. you see him in these college vids dominating in the paint - and looked really BIG. but he's only 6-9. he won't be as physically big on the nba stage as he is in college. but i think he's got the athleticism and strength to make up for that. bam's about the same size and he's been working out pretty well.

i'd be happy with either toppin or OO, but i do worry a bit about some of the concerns about toppin. for example, will he embrace being the fourth option on offense rather than the first, or will it present probs for him? another downside is that he's apparently not able to maintain position down low as well as one might hope because his build is top heavy - strong upper body, not as much in his legs. OO is USC's leading scorer - but it's a much more balanced attack that he's been a part of so i think his transition on the O will be easier. and he's strong like bull - not going to get moved off his block without great effort from the opposition.
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Re: Trade the Lotto Pick 2.0

Post by UnFadeable21 »



I’m elite basketball mind

The rest of ya need to catch up and learn the game.
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