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strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

A place to discuss the MN Timberwolves
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YBBR
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by YBBR »

flexbuffchest wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:43 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:24 pm
jodaman01 wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:44 am

KAT and DLO get you a foundation to actually set a course and build around. If Wiggins was able to flourish along with them then the Wolves would be on great shape.

If you trade KAT you will get pieces, but then you are just running around again looking for pieces to fit together and get a foundation to build on. I would argue KAT is a better piece build onto than anyone you have mentioned as a trade trade here.

It’s Rosas’s job to figure it out and he needs to exhaust every effort to build around KAT before he breaks down and trades him. That would likely be a last resort and likely the last season he would be GM.

GO WOLVES!! :thumbsup:
It's year 6! "Flourish"

This kid is going to be close to a decade in the NBA. :lol:
You're thinking of geriatric Wiggins, not spring chicken KAT
They're the same age!
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kilkenny
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by kilkenny »

I hate to bump this dumbass thread, but in the NBA right now among all positions...
KAT has the second highest 3 point shooting percent in terms of quantity shot per game (8.3).
Wig has the second lowest 3 point shooting percent in terms of quantity shot per game (6.3).

Let's trade KAT now!! :lol:
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kilkenny
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by kilkenny »

NotRasho wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:23 pm
kilkenny wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:17 pm I hate to bump this dumbass thread, but in the NBA right now among all positions...
KAT has the second highest 3 point shooting percent in terms of quantity shot per game (8.3).
Wig has the second lowest 3 point shooting percent in terms of quantity shot per game (6.3).

Let's trade KAT now!! :lol:
And hes still posting the best eFG% of his career and best TS% in 4 years. (Wiggins)

Bad 3 point shooting Wiggins is still better than bad long 2 shooting Wiggins.
Wow, we should definitely trade KAT now knowing this information.
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kilkenny
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by kilkenny »

NotRasho wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:09 pm
kilkenny wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:38 pm
NotRasho wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:23 pm

And hes still posting the best eFG% of his career and best TS% in 4 years. (Wiggins)

Bad 3 point shooting Wiggins is still better than bad long 2 shooting Wiggins.
Wow, we should definitely trade KAT now knowing this information.
So your argument on if you should or should not trade a player comes down to some individual stat?

Sorry I didnt know I was making a case for trading one of them based on something so stupid. If Wiggins shot it less he would look better based on your stat, but he wouldnt be a better player based on my stat.
Just thinking about all the bullshit starting with this thread and other people saying we should keep Wiggins in other threads. It's about a bunch of stuff.
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somuchyummy
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by somuchyummy »

i've gotten so much shit for starting this abominable thread - maybe it was started as a rant after a particularly uninspiring game. i think it was. so tonight, in a loss against the bulls, karl does what karl does - puts up 40 points in pretty effortless fashion. it's pretty much only points tonight - he finishes with just 6 rebounds, 2 assists, no steals and no blocks. still 40 is nothing to sneeze at.

and yet, the game thread is filled with disparaging comments about karl from more than a couple of posters (i stayed out of it, i think) - mostly having to do with his mental state and inability to keep his cool and stay focused. i think many of us see there's a problem with towns in that regard. he's not leadership material. he's more the talented guy that a real team leader would have to contain and get the best from. we currently don't have a guy like that on this team to play that role. he'll have to come here by trade or the draft - because - NO - KAT is not a leader. he's a stats guy, and so far, not much more than that. we lose all the time with him collecting amazing stats.

second, his defense is bad. the bulls put luke kornet and cristiano felicio up against him tonight - some of their court time was spent against gorgs - but the majority was straight on against karl. these are not very good centers - certainly not offensively. they combine on the year for a little less than 6ppg - so they're a non factor. tonight, and mostly with karl guarding them, they combined for 27. we are always going to be having problems when that kind of bullshit happens. in nba lore, there's a story about wilt chamberlain facing the rookie smash walt bellamy for the first time. bellamy's coming into the game averaging about 32 ppg. according to the lore, wilt told walt at tipoff time that he wasn't going to score any points in the first half. wilt was not going to "allow" it. and bellamy DIDN'T score any points in the first half. apparently wilt blocked everything he shot. nice story. just know that KAT is not that kind of center. KAT, in his physical prime, lets luke fucking kornet and cristiano fucking felicio score 27 points on him. unless KAT figures out something pretty soon, defense will always be a huge problem for us as long as he's a Wolf.

this is our core piece - an amazing, brilliant offensive talent who regularly plays horrible D and is emotionally immature. because of that, fans will occasionally ask to trade him - so deal with it.
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by j2j »

We've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty.

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T_J
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by T_J »

Imo theres nothing wrong with this thread. 6 years into the league, its worthy of discussing.

I don't think theres anybody saying dump KAT. The package would have to be insane. But his body language and attitude matter. He's putting up huge stats last night and barely will look at a teammate. Some of his teammates I don't even blame him, but that's a 180 from what he was talking back in September about unity and everyone coming together.
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by thinktank »

j2j wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:44 am
:doublefinger:

I am not here to debate what Rosas and Ryan will do. I am here to debate what SHOULD be done.
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somuchyummy
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by somuchyummy »

it comes as no surprise that rosas says he's untouchable. given his defensive inadequacies and his mental makeup, he's still a foundational piece with serious issues. wiggins likewise. i don't see much difference in DLo. if just one of them was a strong leader type, it could work. but we need a mature leader to add to this group, someone who is unmistakeable in that role and who the entire team respects. someone who can get in karl's and wiggins' and maybe DLo's ears, and regularly tell them the unvarnished shit - and not have to worry about some reprisal from any of those three. "coach, i demand you trade so and so or else". i'm not sure where that's going to come from.
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by jffl_commish »

j2j wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:44 am
As he should be, and as they should be. He certainly isn't perfect. Sure he isn't a good defender, and please STFU and get back instead of crying to the refs all the time. But, he's a generational talent on offense. You can't give that away. There are ways to hide his deficiencies, but this roster isn't currently constructed to do so. 3 & D wings are great and all, but how would a 3 & D power forward look here? One that could rebound too. That would help immensely.
Let's get Tropical
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somuchyummy
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by somuchyummy »

you mean maybe someone like gorgui dieng? plays hard D, rebounds, hits three pointers at nearly a 40% clip?
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by Decker23 »

T_J wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:32 am I think KAT is a fake leader and is immature as hell.

Having said that, I'd want Tatum, probably 2 picks, and Wiggins gone also....probably to a 3rd team.

I'd rather build around a wing than a big but that's me.
I agree. I've brought up trading KAT before and got burned at the stake. He's overrated and a whiny complaining bitch. If we can get a haul like OKC did for Paul George I'm ALL IN.

No player on this franchise should be untouchable. The future is not now... Thibs destroyed that dream. See what kind of haul we can get and let's go!
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T_J
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by T_J »

Seems like the most relevant KAT thread for this from Zach Lowe talking 2020 AllStars.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/284 ... st-debates
When I went through this exercise on the Lowe Post podcast with Howard Beck two weeks ago, I had George and Karl-Anthony Towns over Ingram and Booker.

Ending up here became an easy decision as George and Towns missed more games. Towns is back, and the Wolves continue to lose. They are 9-18 with him and 6-11 without him.

Had Towns stayed healthy, he would be a worthy All-Star. He is one of the league's half-dozen or so best offensive players -- an all-court force who can do everything. Minnesota has zero offense without him. Zero. It is harder to watch than the movie "Hard to Watch" starring Tracy Jordan.

Towns' statistics -- traditional, advanced, whatever -- are so outrageous that some cumulative numbers he piled up over those 27 games outpace (by a lot) the same numbers for guys who have played every game.

But he remains a minus on defense; the Wolves allow 115 points per 100 possessions with Towns on the floor, and just 99 when he sits. That is larger than the gap between the league's best and worst defensive teams. That obviously isn't all on Towns. When he dials in, he can be a (slight) net-plus on that end.

But some of it is on him. Minnesota's defense stabilized when Gorgui Dieng filled Towns' starting spot.

More than that, the Booker/Ingram/Paul/Mitchell foursome have played 500-plus more minutes than Towns. They are balling every night. They are tireless. Their teams are lost without them.
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flexbuffchest
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by flexbuffchest »

T_J wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:31 pm Seems like the most relevant KAT thread for this from Zach Lowe talking 2020 AllStars.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/284 ... st-debates
When I went through this exercise on the Lowe Post podcast with Howard Beck two weeks ago, I had George and Karl-Anthony Towns over Ingram and Booker.

Ending up here became an easy decision as George and Towns missed more games. Towns is back, and the Wolves continue to lose. They are 9-18 with him and 6-11 without him.

Had Towns stayed healthy, he would be a worthy All-Star. He is one of the league's half-dozen or so best offensive players -- an all-court force who can do everything. Minnesota has zero offense without him. Zero. It is harder to watch than the movie "Hard to Watch" starring Tracy Jordan.

Towns' statistics -- traditional, advanced, whatever -- are so outrageous that some cumulative numbers he piled up over those 27 games outpace (by a lot) the same numbers for guys who have played every game.

But he remains a minus on defense; the Wolves allow 115 points per 100 possessions with Towns on the floor, and just 99 when he sits. That is larger than the gap between the league's best and worst defensive teams. That obviously isn't all on Towns. When he dials in, he can be a (slight) net-plus on that end.

But some of it is on him. Minnesota's defense stabilized when Gorgui Dieng filled Towns' starting spot.

More than that, the Booker/Ingram/Paul/Mitchell foursome have played 500-plus more minutes than Towns. They are balling every night. They are tireless. Their teams are lost without them.
One huge thing that can get lost in those types of stats is that it is so "noisy" since those "off" numbers are typically our bench vs. their bench. Kat's not good by any means but using those numbers without looking at the context is misleading since it doesn't actually factor in how good/bad the back ups are.

Because if you (general not you specifically) honestly think we'd be the best defensive team in the league without KAT...

Edit: Here are the teams ORTG, DRTG and NETRTG during the two stints that KAT was out.

11/2/2019 - 11/4/2019 (2 games): 104.9 ORTG, 106.6 DRTG, -1.7 NETRTG
12/18/2019 - 1/15/2020 (15 games): 101.1 ORTG, 104.1 DRTG, -3 NETRTG

And for the year KAT is 113.4 ORTG, 115 DRTG, -1.7 NETRTG
UnFadeable21 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
Thrillkill
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by Thrillkill »

We're doing everything we can to make Kat the best player he can be. That's the 2nd time I've heard that quote from the idiot. You think Kat likes that? That is a straight up dig at him.
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by memyworld »

KAT's peers don't think he's a top ten frontcourt player:

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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by RubeTube »

memyworld wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:47 pm KAT's peers don't think he's a top ten frontcourt player:

Not surprised. Go to ANY NBA city, the fans etc.. Will all tell you how overrated Carl Phony Clowns is.
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by RubeTube »

How those Melo haters? Lulz

#FirstBallot
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by LordNu »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:05 pm How those Melo haters? Lulz

#FirstBallot
Yeah how the hell does that happen.
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somuchyummy
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by somuchyummy »

what kind of grates me is the coddling he gets from the TC media. heard some postgame questions after the chicago game, and it was all about his 40 points, and how he's readjusting since coming back from the injury and illness, and how he needed to find his spots in our O, and how he's feeling comf....HELLO?!?! BURY THE LEAD MUCH?!?!?! WE LOST THE GAME TO A CRAPPY TEAM?!??!

i don't think anybody presses him on his shortcomings. like they want to stay on his good side or something. HELLOOO!!! WE LOST THE GAME!!!!!

how's about this for a question to Karl after another embarrassing loss. "Karl, the Bull's strong new center, Wendell Carter Jr., didn't play tonight. Didn't this feel like a real opportunity to take an obvious advantage? Yet, the Bull's two backup centers, Luke Kornet and Cristiano Felicio, both had great games. They normally average less than 6 ppg together - yet tonight they combined for 27. What did these two do that caused you so many problems?"

does he ever field questions like that? or is it just a lot of toe licking that goes on in these postgame pressers?
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by Thrillkill »

Who's the guy who has me saying I'd trade Towns in his sig line? Has he chimed in?

You guys are hilarious. Why don't you all just save yourselves the year, or 2 years, or 6 months, and just agree with me from minute 1.
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salamander
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by salamander »

Watching KAT meander down the court at half speed every game. Low energy, low intensity.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by thinktank »

Thrillkill wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:23 pm Who's the guy who has me saying I'd trade Towns in his sig line? Has he chimed in?

You guys are hilarious. Why don't you all just save yourselves the year, or 2 years, or 6 months, and just agree with me from minute 1.
Thrillkill wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:18 am
What did I tell you?
Thrillkill wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:10 am
Yeah, I wanted to Keep Butker, Thibs and trade Kat for J. Brown, Rozier, and a 1st.
A very precarious plan. Brown is not as good as KAT. Rosier isn’t either. That first is also unlikely to be as good as KAT. It’s a poor return for KAT. And Wiggins and Jimmy May still not have co-existed.

So, a shit haul for KAT, and Jimmy probably leaves anyway.

Brilliant.
Alistair89

Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by Alistair89 »

Some mixed opinions on here.

Seems like it is really it for you guys;

Traded Teague and need a PG!
Wiggins one of most divisive players in the league.
Cov and Deng on trading block.
Now its time to cut bait with KAT!?

Seems like Rosas is holding tight there though.

Really interesting situation and looks like Saunders ripped into them at HT.
Just Houston next!
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kilkenny
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Re: strike while the iron's hot - trade KAT

Post by kilkenny »

Thrillkill wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:23 pm Who's the guy who has me saying I'd trade Towns in his sig line? Has he chimed in?

You guys are hilarious. Why don't you all just save yourselves the year, or 2 years, or 6 months, and just agree with me from minute 1.
I'm right here and still think your idea is dumb. :lol:
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