Jarrett Culver: Trade Him Now

[somuchyummy]

That's kind of why the idea of trading for Gordon (say what you want, but rebounding and defense are better than anything else we have at the position) and another player (I would love Jerami Grant or that type of player) while resigning Beasley would be my first option. Now I have no idea if I could make numbers work, but that starting five is at least interesting and is around top 5 out west.

the production from gordon though. $16.5 mil next year and this season he went 14.4 and 7.6 with 31% from three. and whatever you say about his D, it blows hot and cold. it's been frustrating magic fans the whole time he's been there. don't you think - given he'd just be playing off the scraps of kat, dlo and beasley - so he wouldn't be a focus of the D - don't you think okongwu could average 11 and 9 with consistently better effort on D for comparatively zippo money - plus he's here to develop alongside our core for years on a rookie deal? i just feel like it's such a low bar to accept gordon. IMO he's only been a disappointment his entire career.

as for grant - i like him - but he's contracted thru next year at about 10 mil. what's the plan to get him? and if we were to get him - i hope he'd be our SF and not our PF. you know what his per36 rebounding figure was this year? 4.9. ouch. and that's with nba stats listing him as a PF.

God I love good discussion! Thanks

Gordon, in my opinion, becomes a much better player when put on our roster if he accepts his role. He would be highly paid, but if he gets 15&10 a night while playing good defense and sticking around 35% on 3 I am thrilled. It's hard when you are forced to be the number 1, but that just isn't your game.

Grant would absolutely be a 3. Again, only if we are resigning Beas. I always saw him as a Gerald Wallace/Shawn Marion type of SF.

A trade that lines up and is close in my opinion, draft picks may need to balance out...

Orl out - Gordon, Bamba
In - Culver, Johnson

Den out - Grant
In - Bamba, Layman

Min out - Culver, Johnson, Layman
In - Grant and Gordon

i actually like this trade. if we have to give up on culver - IMO the return has to include a young defensive minded SF (like grant) to take the place of what i'm hoping for culver to develop into. that he's nearly a career 40% shooter from three is definite icing. but i don't see orlando doing this. losing both gordon and bamba - in return for just jj and culver? i think for this to work - i think they would also want our lottery pick in exchange for their 15th. would you still do it if that were the deal? would i still do it then? probably yes.

coming out of this offseason with gordon, grant, a 15, a 16 and a 33 - in exchange for the loss of basically culver and our lottery pick? yes. grant is 26 and gordon 24 - so yes. the only rub as i see it is that grant's contract expires at the end of next year - what will he want at that point and will we just lose him to FA? but probably worth the risk.

dlo - jmac - 33rd pick (quickley? dotson? terry? t jones?)
beasley - okogie - nowell
grant - 15th pick (vassell? s bey? t bey?) - vandy
gordon - 16th pick (stewart? j smith? reed? oturu?) - spellman
KAT - naz

btw, you're not going to get 15/10 out of gordon - even with a more specific role. rebounding is rebounding - and the most he's ever done in a year is 7.9 rpg. heck, he's never broken 10 per 36! to me, he's actually part B of this trade with grant being Part A. he's also going to have to kick ass from three to hit 35%. this season 31% and just 32% for his career. you may be anticipating a little too much.

the other question to ask is this: given that beasley would get a new contract this summer - and grant the following year - is this team even financially possible in anything other than the very short term? notice i'm filling the bench with young players and draft picks - all cheap - but even then, i'm not sure. just did the numbers - the payroll on a bench of jmac, okogie, nowell, vandy, naz, spellman, a 15th, 16th and 33rd pick would come in at around $20M. 9 players for 20 mil, not bad. now, can they play? more math - the total payroll for those 14 players next year would be right around $120M.

[norseman79]

the production from gordon though. $16.5 mil next year and this season he went 14.4 and 7.6 with 31% from three. and whatever you say about his D, it blows hot and cold. it's been frustrating magic fans the whole time he's been there. don't you think - given he'd just be playing off the scraps of kat, dlo and beasley - so he wouldn't be a focus of the D - don't you think okongwu could average 11 and 9 with consistently better effort on D for comparatively zippo money - plus he's here to develop alongside our core for years on a rookie deal? i just feel like it's such a low bar to accept gordon. IMO he's only been a disappointment his entire career.

as for grant - i like him - but he's contracted thru next year at about 10 mil. what's the plan to get him? and if we were to get him - i hope he'd be our SF and not our PF. you know what his per36 rebounding figure was this year? 4.9. ouch. and that's with nba stats listing him as a PF.

God I love good discussion! Thanks

Gordon, in my opinion, becomes a much better player when put on our roster if he accepts his role. He would be highly paid, but if he gets 15&10 a night while playing good defense and sticking around 35% on 3 I am thrilled. It's hard when you are forced to be the number 1, but that just isn't your game.

Grant would absolutely be a 3. Again, only if we are resigning Beas. I always saw him as a Gerald Wallace/Shawn Marion type of SF.

A trade that lines up and is close in my opinion, draft picks may need to balance out...

Orl out - Gordon, Bamba
In - Culver, Johnson

Den out - Grant
In - Bamba, Layman

Min out - Culver, Johnson, Layman
In - Grant and Gordon

i actually like this trade. if we have to give up on culver - IMO the return has to include a young defensive minded SF (like grant) to take the place of what i'm hoping for culver to develop into. that he's nearly a career 40% shooter from three is definite icing. but i don't see orlando doing this. losing both gordon and bamba - in return for just jj and culver? i think for this to work - i think they would also want our lottery pick in exchange for their 15th. would you still do it if that were the deal? would i still do it then? probably yes.

coming out of this offseason with gordon, grant, a 15, a 16 and a 33 - in exchange for the loss of basically culver and our lottery pick? yes. grant is 26 and gordon 24 - so yes. the only rub as i see it is that grant's contract expires at the end of next year - what will he want at that point and will we just lose him to FA? but probably worth the risk.

dlo - jmac - 33rd pick (quickley? dotson? terry? t jones?)
beasley - okogie - nowell
grant - 15th pick (vassell? s bey? t bey?) - vandy
gordon - 16th pick (stewart? j smith? reed? oturu?) - spellman
KAT - naz

btw, you're not going to get 15/10 out of gordon - even with a more specific role. rebounding is rebounding - and the most he's ever done in a year is 7.9 rpg. heck, he's never broken 10 per 36! to me, he's actually part B of this trade with grant being Part A. he's also going to have to kick ass from three to hit 35%. this season 31% and just 32% for his career. you may be anticipating a little too much.

the other question to ask is this: given that beasley would get a new contract this summer - and grant the following year - is this team even financially possible in anything other than the very short term? notice i'm filling the bench with young players and draft picks - all cheap - but even then, i'm not sure. just did the numbers - the payroll on a bench of jmac, okogie, nowell, vandy, naz, spellman, a 15th, 16th and 33rd pick would come in at around $20M. 9 players for 20 mil, not bad. now, can they play? more math - the total payroll for those 14 players next year would be right around $120M.

All great points. I enjoyed that read. Well thought out and the questions you pose at the end are probably going to require more depth and digging than I care to right now. I would say that we would be more likely to start seeing vet minimum contracts if we put a legit contender on the floor.

Bigger question, where would that starting 5 rank in the west...
Dlo
Beas
Grant
Gordon
Kat

[somuchyummy]

as for vet mins, idk. if you look at that young starting five - they all can do big minutes heavy lifting - the oldest of the bunch is grant at 26. i think jmac has given us enough hope that he can be an okay bench floor general at backup PG - okogie will be into his third year coming off the bench as he has been - i don't think it's unreasonable to ask a mid first SF and PF to come in and assume low teens PT off the bench (plus if we stick with spellman, he's been in the league a few years). the only spot i could see adding a vet min would be backing up KAT. not sold on naz yet. like we got him for peanuts, but he is soft (nickname is Big Jelly ), poor on D, and a bit trigger happy. if you look at who the UFA centers are out there that might be interested in backing up KAT on a vet min - i'll throw these names out: kyle oquinn, robin lopez, bismack biyombo, tristan thompson, aron baynes (my fave).

[norseman79]

as for vet mins, idk. if you look at that young starting five - they all can do big minutes heavy lifting - the oldest of the bunch is grant at 26. i think jmac has given us enough hope that he can be an okay bench floor general at backup PG - okogie will be into his third year coming off the bench as he has been - i don't think it's unreasonable to ask a mid first SF and PF to come in and assume low teens PT off the bench (plus if we stick with spellman, he's been in the league a few years). the only spot i could see adding a vet min would be backing up KAT. not sold on naz yet. like we got him for peanuts, but he is soft, poor on D, and a bit trigger happy. if you look at who the UFA centers are out there that might be interested in backing up KAT on a vet min - i'll throw these names out: kyle oquinn, robin lopez, bismack biyombo, tristan thompson, aron baynes (my fave).

I would say that totally depends on the the players we draft. The guys you listed are decent defensive rebounding bigs, which would suggest a decent stretch big to pair with

[somuchyummy]

as for vet mins, idk. if you look at that young starting five - they all can do big minutes heavy lifting - the oldest of the bunch is grant at 26. i think jmac has given us enough hope that he can be an okay bench floor general at backup PG - okogie will be into his third year coming off the bench as he has been - i don't think it's unreasonable to ask a mid first SF and PF to come in and assume low teens PT off the bench (plus if we stick with spellman, he's been in the league a few years). the only spot i could see adding a vet min would be backing up KAT. not sold on naz yet. like we got him for peanuts, but he is soft, poor on D, and a bit trigger happy. if you look at who the UFA centers are out there that might be interested in backing up KAT on a vet min - i'll throw these names out: kyle oquinn, robin lopez, bismack biyombo, tristan thompson, aron baynes (my fave).

I would say that totally depends on the the players we draft. The guys you listed are decent defensive rebounding bigs, which would suggest a decent stretch big to pair with

we could maybe find one in the draft - but honestly, let's not do the graveside burial of omari spellman just yet - he's a career 37% three baller. spellman is a stretch big. we've got him under contract thru next year - let's use him! if some deal needs $2M filler to work, we've also got jacob evans for that purpose - he is less needed on this squad than a stretch big.

according to this year's vet min scale, all those guys i listed - o'quinn, lopez, biyombo, thompson and baynes - would be gettable between $2.3M and $2.6M - if they, of course, were open to vet min deals. lopez is a 12 year vet, biyombo and thompson 9 yrs, and baynes and o'quinn 8 yrs. my favorite is baynes - but he played so well for phoenix this year that he's positioned himself to do really well as a UFA this summer ($10M+). so he's probably not a realistic target unless something really screwy via COVID kicks in. thompson is also coming off a really good year - so he's probably out as well.

kyle o'quinn would probably be the most realistic to get - and it wouldn't be a bad get at all. still just 30 - played less than 10 MPG this year for philly - but still is effective in what he does when he's on the court. is he a stretch big? no. but getting an 8 year vet to back up KAT in limited minutes for $2.3M would be nice - and for his limited PT this year, his per 36 is still impressive and maybe just what the doctor ordered for this kind of role on our team - 12.1/13.7/4.9 with 3.1 blocks. he's the rough tough interior player opposite to naz's perimeter skilled but soft approach - the two could spot KAT as needed matchupwise.

[somuchyummy]

God I love good discussion! Thanks

Gordon, in my opinion, becomes a much better player when put on our roster if he accepts his role. He would be highly paid, but if he gets 15&10 a night while playing good defense and sticking around 35% on 3 I am thrilled. It's hard when you are forced to be the number 1, but that just isn't your game.

Grant would absolutely be a 3. Again, only if we are resigning Beas. I always saw him as a Gerald Wallace/Shawn Marion type of SF.

A trade that lines up and is close in my opinion, draft picks may need to balance out...

Orl out - Gordon, Bamba
In - Culver, Johnson

Den out - Grant
In - Bamba, Layman

Min out - Culver, Johnson, Layman
In - Grant and Gordon

i actually like this trade. if we have to give up on culver - IMO the return has to include a young defensive minded SF (like grant) to take the place of what i'm hoping for culver to develop into. that he's nearly a career 40% shooter from three is definite icing. but i don't see orlando doing this. losing both gordon and bamba - in return for just jj and culver? i think for this to work - i think they would also want our lottery pick in exchange for their 15th. would you still do it if that were the deal? would i still do it then? probably yes.

coming out of this offseason with gordon, grant, a 15, a 16 and a 33 - in exchange for the loss of basically culver and our lottery pick? yes. grant is 26 and gordon 24 - so yes. the only rub as i see it is that grant's contract expires at the end of next year - what will he want at that point and will we just lose him to FA? but probably worth the risk.

dlo - jmac - 33rd pick (quickley? dotson? terry? t jones?)
beasley - okogie - nowell
grant - 15th pick (vassell? s bey? t bey?) - vandy
gordon - 16th pick (stewart? j smith? reed? oturu?) - spellman
KAT - naz

btw, you're not going to get 15/10 out of gordon - even with a more specific role. rebounding is rebounding - and the most he's ever done in a year is 7.9 rpg. heck, he's never broken 10 per 36! to me, he's actually part B of this trade with grant being Part A. he's also going to have to kick ass from three to hit 35%. this season 31% and just 32% for his career. you may be anticipating a little too much.

the other question to ask is this: given that beasley would get a new contract this summer - and grant the following year - is this team even financially possible in anything other than the very short term? notice i'm filling the bench with young players and draft picks - all cheap - but even then, i'm not sure. just did the numbers - the payroll on a bench of jmac, okogie, nowell, vandy, naz, spellman, a 15th, 16th and 33rd pick would come in at around $20M. 9 players for 20 mil, not bad. now, can they play? more math - the total payroll for those 14 players next year would be right around $120M.

All great points. I enjoyed that read. Well thought out and the questions you pose at the end are probably going to require more depth and digging than I care to right now. I would say that we would be more likely to start seeing vet minimum contracts if we put a legit contender on the floor.

Bigger question, where would that starting 5 rank in the west...
Dlo
Beas
Grant
Gordon
Kat

i don't know about rankings - but that's a nice starting five - certainly playoff material and maybe one that could attract a decent vet FA on a min deal to be a part of.

[Thrillkill]

the production from gordon though. $16.5 mil next year and this season he went 14.4 and 7.6 with 31% from three. and whatever you say about his D, it blows hot and cold. it's been frustrating magic fans the whole time he's been there. don't you think - given he'd just be playing off the scraps of kat, dlo and beasley - so he wouldn't be a focus of the D - don't you think okongwu could average 11 and 9 with consistently better effort on D for comparatively zippo money - plus he's here to develop alongside our core for years on a rookie deal? i just feel like it's such a low bar to accept gordon. IMO he's only been a disappointment his entire career.

as for grant - i like him - but he's contracted thru next year at about 10 mil. what's the plan to get him? and if we were to get him - i hope he'd be our SF and not our PF. you know what his per36 rebounding figure was this year? 4.9. ouch. and that's with nba stats listing him as a PF.

My prediction is Mia gets him, they turn him back into the rebounder, defender, dunker, he should be and he's a huge piece of their title run next year.

which one?

Which year? ..............................next?

[somuchyummy]

no silly. gordon or grant?

[Thrillkill]

no silly. gordon or grant?

Gordon. They have space next year and he will come at a trade discount. Riley is gonna do work this offseason and they will be one of those teams that start winning with defense.

[Hoop Dreams]

[jodaman01]

There was nothing about Culver that stood out last season.....he was as vanilla as it gets. I wish they had been able to get Aaron Gordon for him in some type of deal, maybe that will open up if Culver flashes at all early in the season. Gordon would be perfect at this point.

Glad they didn’t dump Culver for another pick in this draft, would have just been another rough piece that needed to get polished, and they already got that in Culver and also a year of polishing into him. He should be better this year, couldn’t be any worse.

[KevinBaconIsNotMyHero]

I’m not giving up yet. He was often times the best defensive player on the floor for the Wolves last season as a rookie. Now that might say more about the rest of the team than it says about Culver, but nonetheless, I think there’s a good player in there.

[swenjj]

I’m not giving up yet. He was often times the best defensive player on the floor for the Wolves last season as a rookie. Now that might say more about the rest of the team than it says about Culver, but nonetheless, I think there’s a good player in there.

I'm hoping he shows he is good enough to start, Edwards as well. A lineup of Russell, Edwards,Culver,some pf,towns could be fun if they live up to expectations. Just seems like we gotta hope Culver shows enough to add in a trade for a legit power forward though.

[bubu dubu.]

Feel like he was supposed to be trade ammo, but am fine with him staying. Extremely disappointing rookie season, but he showed some flashes, and trading would have been selling very low.

[shoteh]

We have a log jam at his position so he will need to compete with the other guys to see what he bring to the table, whether defense or offense.

Also I don't care how good he is on defense, if he does not shoot better from the line, he needs to go. Brick after brick after brick. ( may be a confidence thing, not sure )

[somuchyummy]

i don't think it will be a stretch to predict a 20 pt uptick in his free throw percentage this year. he simply can't be that bad - it has to have been some sort of rookie anomaly that froze his brain. and seriously, even it it zooms up 20 pts - it's still going to be a subpar 66% from the line. but i'm expecting something more along the lines of 66% this year - which is the direction it needs to go.

[Hornets]

To show us how putrid this franchise is, you dopes are now up to page 13 discussing Jarrett Culver.....JARRETT CULVER!

[HeHateMe]

Need him to become a top notch defender and make open shots at this point.

[somuchyummy]

To show us how putrid this franchise is, you dopes are now up to page 13 discussing Jarrett Culver.....JARRETT CULVER!

13 whole pages in 11 months. wow. you'd think we'd know better than to discuss a former overall #6 who's on our team. hornet, how's about you start a much needed thread about something more important - like current nba players' butt tattoos.