Is KAT best offensive big man in the NBA?

[ChrisPaulGeorgeHill]

26.4 ppg
.516 FG%
.449 3PFG%
.769 FT%

.633 EFG%!!!!!!!

He’s currently in the top-5 in 3 pointers made in the NBA.

His effective field goal percentage is crazy insane when you consider how that much of his points come from jump shots.

Remember, rubes. KAT is a 7 foot Center putting up back court player numbers offensively.

I wish he would be allowed to take 25 shots a game. Might just benefit the team a bit more because we rely heavily on KAT and Wiggins.

He might be able to average 35 a game with ease.

Now I’m not saying he’s the best overall big man in the league, because I don’t think he is. His defense is.....well leaves much to be desired in my opinion.

I don’t really consider Durant a “big man” because I’ve been use to him playing the 3 so much of his career. Same with Lebron. To me, I consider guys those “wings”.

What I’m asking is this.

Is Karl Anthony Towns the best OFFENSIVE big man in the NBA?

[j2j]

Yes, without a doubt. He's shooting almost 45% from 3 on over 9 attempts per game. That's Steph Curry numbers. While shooting 59% from 2. His eFG% and TS% are insane.

There are 4 big men in the conversation and Towns is dwarfing them on the offensive end.

http://bkref.com/tiny/GRiSh

Assuming you don't consider Giannis a big man.

[somuchyummy]

giannis is great, sort of a player in his own category for what he brings all around - but he can't shoot the three like KAT. he also handles the ball a LOT and that has led to some gaudy TOV numbers - 4.6 per game this year. i think his excellence on O gets nicked because of that. KAT gets plenty of touches too, but is only averaging 1.9 per game. i'm voting KAT.

[YBBR]

He is, definitely.

Giannis numbers are even better than last year. Imagine having Towns and Giannis as your 4/5. Fuck that Is crazy scary.

[somuchyummy]

He is, definitely.

Giannis numbers are even better than last year. Imagine having Towns and Giannis as your 4/5. Fuck that Is crazy scary.

what i love about the freak is the fire to get even better. don't know how it's working out, but i know his goal this year was DPOY. some might say their goal is to improve their D, the freak wants to win DPOY. there's a difference there.

[kilkenny]

It's a travesty if he's not taking at least 25 shots a game.

[somuchyummy]

It's a travesty if he's not taking at least 25 shots a game.

yup. and both inside and out. we saw last night twice KAT down low, doubled up and then finding bell once and KBD another time for easy dunks. we should milk the crap out of that.

[Beef Supreme]

Yes. Unless you have a very liberal definition of the term “big man.”

[UnFadeable21]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

[flexbuffchest]

Absolutely he is. He's earned the right to shoot whatever shot whenever he wants.

Hell, if he wants to take 20 three points a game then go ahead if you keep shooting them at a >40% clip.

[kilkenny]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

Go home, you're drunk again.

[RubeTube]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

I agree with this. I would love to see him dominate in the paint.

The game has gone away from this type of play though.

[zeitgeist]

Given KAT has improved quite a bit from last year and Jokic has regressed, he's got a pretty firm hold on that, but I suppose it depends on how Jokic recovers later in the year because just last year he was a freak in the playoffs averaging 25/13/8. Jokic has gained some weight and I do wonder how much that is going to be an issue for him the rest of his career.

Also, no, Towns is not shooting too many threes, that'd be like telling Shaq he was dunking the ball too much in his prime, be smart.

[UnFadeable21]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

I agree with this. I would love to see him dominate in the paint.

The game has gone away from this type of play though.

When Town's shoots all those 3's, he doesn't get to the line anymore. In both Jazz games, he didn't go to the free throw line once.

We need him in the post too, to rack up easy buckets and to get the opposing team in foul trouble, bonus for us.

I just don't like him hanging out on the perimeter the entire game.

[Beef Supreme]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

I agree with this. I would love to see him dominate in the paint.

The game has gone away from this type of play though.

Yep.


I hate it, but it is the way the game is right now.



Could you build a winning team around Hakeem Olajuwon today?

[zeitgeist]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

I agree with this. I would love to see him dominate in the paint.

The game has gone away from this type of play though.

Yep.


I hate it, but it is the way the game is right now.



Could you build a winning team around Hakeem Olajuwon today?

Of course.

[Beef Supreme]

I agree with this. I would love to see him dominate in the paint.

The game has gone away from this type of play though.

Yep.


I hate it, but it is the way the game is right now.



Could you build a winning team around Hakeem Olajuwon today?

Of course.

I’m not so sure. His highest TS% of his career was .577. Guys like Durant, curry, Lebron, etc get to .630, .640, even .650 now. Kawhi and Curry were both over .670 last year! Almost 100 points higher.

They broke the game with these 3s.

[Beef Supreme]

FYI, Towns’ TS% is .663 this year.

[zeitgeist]

Yep.


I hate it, but it is the way the game is right now.



Could you build a winning team around Hakeem Olajuwon today?

Of course.

I’m not so sure. His highest TS% of his career was .577. Guys like Durant, curry, Lebron, etc get to .630, .640, even .650 now. Kawhi and Curry were both over .670 last year! Almost 100 points higher.

They broke the game with these 3s.

TS% of an individual player doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about how much that person lifts a team's offense, it can sometimes be a red herring honestly. In general, big men simply do not and have never had the impact that an elite point guard, shooting guard, or small forward can have, with only a few exceptions in history.

Elite big men have transformed the game with their defense in a way that essentially no perimeter player has ever done. Hakeem is one of the best defensive players in history, his combination of defense and scoring would be good enough to carry a team to a championship, he would probably have a slightly smaller role on offense, but he could definitely lead a championship team.

FYI, Towns’ TS% is .663 this year.

True, but Towns could end up a top 4 offensive big man in history, you have to look at it within the context of the league he's playing in. Towns TS% is extremely high, it's also about 100 points higher than the league average, Towns is a freakish scorer, he's an outlier.

[j2j]

I don’t like that he’s not posting up as much anymore

Too many threes for me from him even though he’s good at shooting them

I agree with this. I would love to see him dominate in the paint.

The game has gone away from this type of play though.

For good reason.

[Beef Supreme]

Of course.

I’m not so sure. His highest TS% of his career was .577. Guys like Durant, curry, Lebron, etc get to .630, .640, even .650 now. Kawhi and Curry were both over .670 last year! Almost 100 points higher.

They broke the game with these 3s.

TS% of an individual player doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about how much that person lifts a team's offense, it can sometimes be a red herring honestly. In general, big men simply do not and have never had the impact that an elite point guard, shooting guard, or small forward can have, with only a few exceptions in history.

Elite big men have transformed the game with their defense in a way that essentially no perimeter player has ever done. Hakeem is one of the best defensive players in history, his combination of defense and scoring would be good enough to carry a team to a championship, he would probably have a slightly smaller role on offense, but he could definitely lead a championship team.

FYI, Towns’ TS% is .663 this year.

True, but Towns could end up a top 4 offensive big man in history, you have to look at it within the context of the league he's playing in. Towns TS% is extremely high, it's also about 100 points higher than the league average, Towns is a freakish scorer, he's an outlier.

Hakeem’s defensive prowess would be diminished because he’d be chasing the likes of Towns, Joker, and Vucivic, etc. out on the perimeter. His offensive prowess would be diminished because 3 is more than 2 and the TS% proves that.

I submit that he could not be the top dog on any team that has illusions of making any noise whatsoever in the playoffs in today’s nba.


An I strongly disagree that big men have never dominated like perimeter guys. They’ve either been more dominant or shared the dominance fairly equally depending on the era, until now.

[flexbuffchest]

I’m not so sure. His highest TS% of his career was .577. Guys like Durant, curry, Lebron, etc get to .630, .640, even .650 now. Kawhi and Curry were both over .670 last year! Almost 100 points higher.

They broke the game with these 3s.

TS% of an individual player doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about how much that person lifts a team's offense, it can sometimes be a red herring honestly. In general, big men simply do not and have never had the impact that an elite point guard, shooting guard, or small forward can have, with only a few exceptions in history.

Elite big men have transformed the game with their defense in a way that essentially no perimeter player has ever done. Hakeem is one of the best defensive players in history, his combination of defense and scoring would be good enough to carry a team to a championship, he would probably have a slightly smaller role on offense, but he could definitely lead a championship team.

FYI, Towns’ TS% is .663 this year.

True, but Towns could end up a top 4 offensive big man in history, you have to look at it within the context of the league he's playing in. Towns TS% is extremely high, it's also about 100 points higher than the league average, Towns is a freakish scorer, he's an outlier.

Hakeem’s defensive prowess would be diminished because he’d be chasing the likes of Towns, Joker, and Vucivic, etc. out on the perimeter. His offensive prowess would be diminished because 3 is more than 2 and the TS% proves that.

I submit that he could not be the top dog on any team that has illusions of making any noise whatsoever in the playoffs in today’s nba.


An I strongly disagree that big men have never dominated like perimeter guys. They’ve either been more dominant or shared the dominance fairly equally depending on the era, until now.

If Gobert can keep up and be effective in today's NBA then there should be no doubt that Hakeem could as well.

[Beef Supreme]

TS% of an individual player doesn't necessarily tell us a lot about how much that person lifts a team's offense, it can sometimes be a red herring honestly. In general, big men simply do not and have never had the impact that an elite point guard, shooting guard, or small forward can have, with only a few exceptions in history.

Elite big men have transformed the game with their defense in a way that essentially no perimeter player has ever done. Hakeem is one of the best defensive players in history, his combination of defense and scoring would be good enough to carry a team to a championship, he would probably have a slightly smaller role on offense, but he could definitely lead a championship team.



True, but Towns could end up a top 4 offensive big man in history, you have to look at it within the context of the league he's playing in. Towns TS% is extremely high, it's also about 100 points higher than the league average, Towns is a freakish scorer, he's an outlier.

Hakeem’s defensive prowess would be diminished because he’d be chasing the likes of Towns, Joker, and Vucivic, etc. out on the perimeter. His offensive prowess would be diminished because 3 is more than 2 and the TS% proves that.

I submit that he could not be the top dog on any team that has illusions of making any noise whatsoever in the playoffs in today’s nba.


An I strongly disagree that big men have never dominated like perimeter guys. They’ve either been more dominant or shared the dominance fairly equally depending on the era, until now.

If Gobert can keep up and be effective in today's NBA then there should be no doubt that Hakeem could as well.

Gobert is effective, but we saw in salt lake exactly what I’m talking about. Towns was bombing 3s all game and Gobert looked lost and was ineffective. Next game in Minneapolis, the 3s weren’t falling and Gobert made a defensive impact.


Also, offensively Gobert is basically a lob target and put-back guy, not someone you can build an offense around.


I’m not saying Olajuwon couldn’t play in today’s nba. I’m saying you couldn’t build a contender with him as the #1. He’s not an MVP level player in today’s nba. I’m sticking with that.


I admit my first post of “winning team” with Olajuwon may be overreach. I think he could lead a team to at least 42 wins. But not deep in the playoffs. He wouldn’t have an elite-level impact today.

[UnFadeable21]

People sleeping on the Dream, smh

He’s a better Joel Embiid

[j2j]

Wouldn't that assume Hakeem wouldn't add to his game? Dude was insanely talented and driven.

Compare Hakeem to Duncan. Or Hakeem to Jokic? Or Anthony Davis?

And really the dominant, championship caliber players have been LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Michael, Bird, Magic going back 35 years. Now it's Kawhi, Durant, Steph... Obviously the 3pt shooting allows Steph to enter the discussion, but it's not like wings havent been championship leaders for decades.

If Michael doesn't get suspended and essentially miss 2 seasons does Hakeem even get 2 rings? Or does Chicago win 8 straight?

[LordNu]

KAT fits better with today's NBA. The game has changed, and those greats of the past although still great, may not have the same impact.

[Beef Supreme]

Wouldn't that assume Hakeem wouldn't add to his game? Dude was insanely talented and driven.

Compare Hakeem to Duncan. Or Hakeem to Jokic? Or Anthony Davis?

And really the dominant, championship caliber players have been LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Michael, Bird, Magic going back 35 years. Now it's Kawhi, Durant, Steph... Obviously the 3pt shooting allows Steph to enter the discussion, but it's not like wings havent been championship leaders for decades.

If Michael doesn't get suspended and essentially miss 2 seasons does Hakeem even get 2 rings? Or does Chicago win 8 straight?

That’s a different argument. This is more about style and how the game has changed than Olajuwon specifically. I lament the loss of diversity from the offensive game of the nba. This Olajuwon thought exercise explains that.

But it’s apparently what the nba wants. They keep tweaking the rules to make the 3 better and make the inside game less relevant. This 3pt-centric era of advanced metrics has made the inside game obsolete. I mourn that. The game is not as interesting as it was. There is very little contrast of styles anymore. It’s just who shoots the 3 better.


But yea a different conversation about transporting a 21 year-old Olajuwon to 2019 and allowing him to grow into today’s game could be made.

Chicago and Jordan may have won 8 straight, but twice Olajuwon’s rockets came out of the western conference. So they would have been Jordan’s opponents in those finals. Even if Jordan triumphed, clearly Olajuwon’s teams would be considered “championship caliber.”

[flexbuffchest]

Hakeem’s defensive prowess would be diminished because he’d be chasing the likes of Towns, Joker, and Vucivic, etc. out on the perimeter. His offensive prowess would be diminished because 3 is more than 2 and the TS% proves that.

I submit that he could not be the top dog on any team that has illusions of making any noise whatsoever in the playoffs in today’s nba.


An I strongly disagree that big men have never dominated like perimeter guys. They’ve either been more dominant or shared the dominance fairly equally depending on the era, until now.

If Gobert can keep up and be effective in today's NBA then there should be no doubt that Hakeem could as well.

Gobert is effective, but we saw in salt lake exactly what I’m talking about. Towns was bombing 3s all game and Gobert looked lost and was ineffective. Next game in Minneapolis, the 3s weren’t falling and Gobert made a defensive impact.


Also, offensively Gobert is basically a lob target and put-back guy, not someone you can build an offense around.


I’m not saying Olajuwon couldn’t play in today’s nba. I’m saying you couldn’t build a contender with him as the #1. He’s not an MVP level player in today’s nba. I’m sticking with that.


I admit my first post of “winning team” with Olajuwon may be overreach. I think he could lead a team to at least 42 wins. But not deep in the playoffs. He wouldn’t have an elite-level impact today.

I don't think it is fair at all to use KAT as an example here. KAT may go down as the best shooting big man ever...in fact he WILL at his current pace...so using him as an example as to why Hakeem wouldn't be as effective isn't a good argument IMO.

I think he could lead a team to at least 42 wins.

What is the context here? Hakeem + a bunch of gleaguers? Rookie Hakeem? Prime Hakeem?

It'd be one thing if Hakeem was only known as a defensive player but he is in the conversation for best 2 way player ever. Maybe his defensive impact wouldn't be as high as it was back then but...Rudy Gobert with an elite offensive game is a top 5 MVP candidate every single year. No question about it.

[j2j]

Wouldn't that assume Hakeem wouldn't add to his game? Dude was insanely talented and driven.

Compare Hakeem to Duncan. Or Hakeem to Jokic? Or Anthony Davis?

And really the dominant, championship caliber players have been LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Michael, Bird, Magic going back 35 years. Now it's Kawhi, Durant, Steph... Obviously the 3pt shooting allows Steph to enter the discussion, but it's not like wings havent been championship leaders for decades.

If Michael doesn't get suspended and essentially miss 2 seasons does Hakeem even get 2 rings? Or does Chicago win 8 straight?

That’s a different argument. This is more about style and how the game has changed than Olajuwon specifically. I lament the loss of diversity from the offensive game of the nba. This Olajuwon thought exercise explains that.

But it’s apparently what the nba wants. They keep tweaking the rules to make the 3 better and make the inside game less relevant. This 3pt-centric era of advanced metrics has made the inside game obsolete. I mourn that. The game is not as interesting as it was. There is very little contrast of styles anymore. It’s just who shoots the 3 better.


But yea a different conversation about transporting a 21 year-old Olajuwon to 2019 and allowing him to grow into today’s game could be made.

Chicago and Jordan may have won 8 straight, but twice Olajuwon’s rockets came out of the western conference. So they would have been Jordan’s opponents in those finals. Even if Jordan triumphed, clearly Olajuwon’s teams would be considered “championship caliber.”

Maybe not "championship 1A caliber", but this conversation ignores the talents of Gobert, Drummond, Vucevic, Capela, Aldridge, Adams, Davis, Ayton, Harrell, Sabonis, Allen, Bam, Favors, Jordan, and others who are quality big men who influence games yet don't shoot the 3 very often.

If Shaq happened to come around next year, I dont think anyone would start forcing him to shoot the 3. He'd still he Shaq. But he's such a historical outlier to compare anyone to him is flawed. Drop Hakeem into today's game and he likely would be too.

But as you said, if Hakeem was in high school today he's probably similar to Embiid where he does stretch out to the 3 point line.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Beef Supreme]

I’m just saying. Everything is perimeter oriented now. Building an offense around the ppp of post play isn’t going to win in today’s nba. Interior D is nice, but perimeter D is what you need. It’s why Rudy Gobert does some nice things, but the jazz aren’t contenders. Kawhi Leonard wins championships.

Olajuwon would be a nice player today. But he wouldn’t be a superstar. He wouldn’t be an mvp. What he did well still matters, but not as much as it used to. It’s been superseded by the perimeter game. What he does well still helps, but it’s not going to get it done if it’s the primary offensive option for a team. Teams couldn’t afford to give him the post touches required for him to get his numbers today. They’d be undone by math, despite hakeem’s skill. At his best, Olajuwon score about 28 ppg on 21 shots/game (1.33pps). This year, James Harden is averaging 38ppg on 24 shots (1.58pps). So 3 more shots = 10 more points. The math kills Olajuwon.

Name one primary low-post superstar in the nba today.