*** Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread ***

[KATMANDUDE]

Multiple NBA scouts: "This is a needs based draft."

I don't like it. This is the year the Wolves will move up and there's little in the top 5 to feel good about.

1) Anthony Edwards has the highest upside, but he looks like a high volume chucker. And the Wolves already have Beasley, Culver & Ologie at SG.

2) If you needed a center, this draft would be a bit better. Wiseman and Okongwu seem to be solid. But a top-5 pick isn't drafted to backup KAT.

3) Toppin is a popular favorite. A low volume, high efficiency scorer that has some truly scary tape on the defensive end. Looks equally awful guarding the post or in space.

4) Avdija fits the Wolves obvious need as a combo forward with above average defense. Has a high floor. Free throw shooting stats a concern.

5) The highly athletic Okoro is also a fit at SF (and maybe even as a small PF). But he doesn't have a perimeter shot. AND he seems to be a slightly bigger clone of Josh Okogie (2" taller than Josh, but with a 3" shorter wingspan).

I actually like several guys who may drop to the Nets' pick better. Patrick Williams (SF/PF Defense) & Saddiq Bey (SF 3&D) are my top picks that may not be there, but Precious Achiuwu (PF/SF defense), Devin Vassell (SG 3&D), Aaron Nesmith (wing 3&D), Theo Maledon (PG/SG) all have potential.

[SO_MONEY]

can we rev this sucker up again with some discussion?

here's what i'd like y'all to think about and comment on - if we are indeed at around 3 or 4 in this draft, what direction do you think the teams picking ahead of us will take? here are some thoughts on the warriors.

i think GS is one of those teams who will get a shot before us. and frankly i'm worried that they'll go for toppin. as much as edwards has a lot of steam behind him, will they really do a top pick for him when they've got klay on the hook for $160M over the next four years and wiggs at $94M over the next three? so i don't see them taking edwards. wiggs IMO is still a really hard trade to make - maybe they'd trade klay - but my guess is that they'll just ride the contracts out on both of them. which is a long time to have edwards coming off the bench as a possible number one pick.

ball is maybe a possibility as a PG because steph has just two years left at $89M. but does anyone think after those two years are over, steph goes somewhere else? i don't think so. if anyone is that team's identity, it's him and he'll still be relatively young. and ball as a wing doesn't work for them for the same reasons edwards doesn't.

i think our hope with GS is that they actually like wiseman. he's something they don't have at all - and maybe they'd retool their game a bit to accomodate a fleet big man like him. and the other option is avdija or maybe okoro - as small ball 4s who can bring maybe a more well rounded game to the table than toppin offers. both deni and okoro are good to great defenders who are also very good passers, something that's got to appeal in GS. okongwu is another possibility as a big who would work well in their system and keep their D at an absolutely high level.

thoughts on this or any other team most likely picking ahead of us? and obviously, i'm coming from a angle that covets toppin as a dynamic PF to put into our starting lineup.

Like I said earlier it's easy to see why almost all have GS taking Wiseman or using the pick in a trade but I can't help but think if they can't find a trade they would take Obi. He's easily the most game ready player at a position of need. And of course they are actually smart.

Atl certainly scares me. All talk is they don't want to pay Collins top dollar and he wants it. Definitely see them taking a younger cheaper version and trading Collins.

Really don't see any of the other bottom feeders taking him. Knicks certainly should but they are too stupid. They will miss out on Ball and then take the next man down way too high. Probably Anthony because he was a bum in every game I saw. But a lot of the longer shot teams could. Would be really tough to watch us not get a top 4 pick.

That ATL report is false fwiw.

“Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk told The Athletic that teams inquired about Collins’ availability at the trade deadline but that Atlanta wasn’t interested in parting with the big man. Schlenk went on to call Collins one of the Hawks best players.”

Sure he can be traded but it’d take a HUGE haul, which I don’t see happening.

And Collins imo is a superior prospect to Obi. Obi’s definitely not a cheaper version of him

It is called subterfuge FNG.

[SHAFA]

I haven't been around here much lately, for obvious reasons.

How does everyone think this whole thing is going to play out? Are they going to bother having a lottery? How are scouting departments handling not having conference tourneys and the NCAA's? Will there be more opportunity to grab high-potential guys lower down given that a number of players weren't able to improve their position in the tournament?

[UnFadeable21]

Multiple NBA scouts: "This is a needs based draft."

I don't like it. This is the year the Wolves will move up and there's little in the top 5 to feel good about.

1) Anthony Edwards has the highest upside, but he looks like a high volume chucker. And the Wolves already have Beasley, Culver & Ologie at SG.

2) If you needed a center, this draft would be a bit better. Wiseman and Okongwu seem to be solid. But a top-5 pick isn't drafted to backup KAT.

3) Toppin is a popular favorite. A low volume, high efficiency scorer that has some truly scary tape on the defensive end. Looks equally awful guarding the post or in space.

4) Avdija fits the Wolves obvious need as a combo forward with above average defense. Has a high floor. Free throw shooting stats a concern.

5) The highly athletic Okoro is also a fit at SF (and maybe even as a small PF). But he doesn't have a perimeter shot. AND he seems to be a slightly bigger clone of Josh Okogie (2" taller than Josh, but with a 3" shorter wingspan).

I actually like several guys who may drop to the Nets' pick better. Patrick Williams (SF/PF Defense) & Saddiq Bey (SF 3&D) are my top picks that may not be there, but Precious Achiuwu (PF/SF defense), Devin Vassell (SG 3&D), Aaron Nesmith (wing 3&D), Theo Maledon (PG/SG) all have potential.

Good breakdown, respect bro

[somuchyummy]

anyone here like markkanen? me? i'm pretty meh - but he's making noise about hating it in chicago. if we stick with 3 or move up, any interest in seeking a trade with them - their 8 and markkanen for our top pick? possibility that we'd come out of it then with okoro and markkanen. and depends of course on if there's one of the top picks that chicago totally has a boner for. thoughts, oh draft brethen?

[Thrillkill]

he's not the defender that okoro or hagans are - but the coaches who see these guys play all year in the same conference selected pons over both of them for DPOY. because...? i'm going to defer to the coaches on this one.

and gawd - i so hope that we take him at 33. it would be so great to have a defensive beast like that on our team. put him in the G for a year and then up with the big club after layman leaves.

He got it on stats. And as I always say nothing is less indicative of play than defensive stats. Just need to look at Towns blocks. He sucks. Love's defensive rating. He sucked worse. Haggans and Okoro will be 1st team all D players if they get the playing time because they fuck with all 5 guys every possession.

Pons is fun to watch come out of nowhere for blocks sometimes because he's not that tall and you don't see it coming. I ust don't think he's a very good ball player. He's a 6'5" power forward. For as much as he hangs in the paint on D and crashes the glass on the other end I would expect him to average closer to 10 rebounds. Not 5. Not anywhere near the athlete but I'd give Murphy a much better chance of playing in the NBA just because he does have that one thing you can count on.

now some of this just doesn't make sense, son. "he got it on stats" is something you say when national sportswriters make the choice. but when the SEC's own head coaches make the choice - it's because they're the pros with the eyes closest to what's going on. they scout it, they see it, they live it. i am not in any way implying that okoro isn't a great defender. but i'm stating the obvious, the coaches of the SEC picked pons over okoro for the award.

barnes played pons everywhere on D - from PG to C - wherever coach thought he was needed. i saw him working his ass off on nick richards (6-11 247 7-4 wingspan) and he was ceding nothing. but that might be why his rebounding numbers aren't stellar. if you're on the perimeter matched up with PGs and SGs - or inside against Cs who you're giving up 5 inches to - your numbers in that regard might not be great. no one is saying he's charles barkley on the boards. (but he did average 1 more rpg than okoro - and okoro is bigger.) his bread and butter in the pros will be as a wing and small ball PF defender. and maybe against some of the bigger PGs in the league. you need to put a dent in ben simmons for a bit because he's killing you? put pons on him.

as per jordan murphy - who averaged 6 rpg in the G this year - pons is so much more the superior athlete. i'll grant you that he's not a great basketball player yet - but as an athlete, he's in zion's territory. he's definitely got a long way to go as an offensive player - but here's a tidbit for you - isaac okoro from three this year (20 of 70 for 29%). pons from three this year (30 of 86 for 35%). in no way am i saying that pons is the better of the two, but offensively right now - he's got the edge over okoro in that department. and we won't get okoro because of his draft placement - whereas pons will be there available and cheap at 33.

for a guy who was a supreme disappointment his first two years at tennessee - he really blossomed this year - averaged 11 ppg after having scored 10 points in only one game his entire first two seasons - it shows that he's starting to find his spots offensively. and barnes played the hell out of him - 190 of a possible 200 minutes in their final 5 games - 34 mpg on the season - he knew how valuable he was to have on the court, plus it speaks highly of pons strength and conditioning as well.

i think you and i will just have to disagree on yves.

I dare you to go to youtube and look up interviews with coaches or athletic directors talking about this kind of voting. It's one of the oldest jokes in sports that the actual vote was made by the athletic director's secretary's son. Not saying Pons is not an athletic freak but he's a 6'5:" PF. And he has less basketball skil than 40 PF's 4-5 inches taller. He'll make a lot of money in europe.

[Thrillkill]

Multiple NBA scouts: "This is a needs based draft."

I don't like it. This is the year the Wolves will move up and there's little in the top 5 to feel good about.

1) Anthony Edwards has the highest upside, but he looks like a high volume chucker. And the Wolves already have Beasley, Culver & Ologie at SG.

2) If you needed a center, this draft would be a bit better. Wiseman and Okongwu seem to be solid. But a top-5 pick isn't drafted to backup KAT.

3) Toppin is a popular favorite. A low volume, high efficiency scorer that has some truly scary tape on the defensive end. Looks equally awful guarding the post or in space.

4) Avdija fits the Wolves obvious need as a combo forward with above average defense. Has a high floor. Free throw shooting stats a concern.

5) The highly athletic Okoro is also a fit at SF (and maybe even as a small PF). But he doesn't have a perimeter shot. AND he seems to be a slightly bigger clone of Josh Okogie (2" taller than Josh, but with a 3" shorter wingspan).

I actually like several guys who may drop to the Nets' pick better. Patrick Williams (SF/PF Defense) & Saddiq Bey (SF 3&D) are my top picks that may not be there, but Precious Achiuwu (PF/SF defense), Devin Vassell (SG 3&D), Aaron Nesmith (wing 3&D), Theo Maledon (PG/SG) all have potential.

Said this all year and it's true. Said it about at least every other draft for 20 years and it's true. BPA is a myth. It is used by exactly kinds of GM's. The one's with a square 1 rebuild and one's protecting their ass in exactly the way that's gonna get them fired.

And you have not seen awful defensive tape. You have seen a tweet or 2 of smoke fed by teams that love him. Yet another myth, that Toppin can't guard. He will block a shit load of shots when turned loose with 6 fouls and cover twice the space as Kat.

Avdija is a brutal fit for us. Not because he's bad but his D is overrated as almost all euro D is. And his shooting is not good enough for the idiot and his boy. He's just this year's version of Culver with worse D. That's who he is.

Like a lot of your guys at the Nets pick but cross Precious off. Can't shoot. Dunking is apparently not shooting. Williams probably gets the same. If we do go Obi like I'm starting to think we will I would bet it all that if we don't sell the pick for a ham sandwich that it comes down exactly to Bey, Nesmith, or Vassell. I'd lean Vassell but you know the idiot will have to be talked out of the guy who shot 50+% from 3 even though it was only like 10 games.

Also Edwards is not a high volume chucker. He was the only good player on a shit team and was a better option triple teamed than his teammates were on a ladder. But fuck the small ball shit. I love Beasley so I'd trade down from 1. Though god help me I can't help but think the idiot would let Beasley walk and then trade Edwards and Johnson to Pho for little buddy number 3. Then I quit.

[Thrillkill]

anyone here like markkanen? me? i'm pretty meh - but he's making noise about hating it in chicago. if we stick with 3 or move up, any interest in seeking a trade with them - their 8 and markkanen for our top pick? possibility that we'd come out of it then with okoro and markkanen. and depends of course on if there's one of the top picks that chicago totally has a boner for. thoughts, oh draft brethen?

Hate him. More because of all the crying over missing out on him. What a joke. We missed out on slightly better Dragan Bender. Why don't we just get 2 step stools to play the 4 and the 5 to make it even easier to get wide open dunks on us?

[RubeTube]

anyone here like markkanen? me? i'm pretty meh - but he's making noise about hating it in chicago. if we stick with 3 or move up, any interest in seeking a trade with them - their 8 and markkanen for our top pick? possibility that we'd come out of it then with okoro and markkanen. and depends of course on if there's one of the top picks that chicago totally has a boner for. thoughts, oh draft brethen?

Ish.

[somuchyummy]

He got it on stats. And as I always say nothing is less indicative of play than defensive stats. Just need to look at Towns blocks. He sucks. Love's defensive rating. He sucked worse. Haggans and Okoro will be 1st team all D players if they get the playing time because they fuck with all 5 guys every possession.

Pons is fun to watch come out of nowhere for blocks sometimes because he's not that tall and you don't see it coming. I ust don't think he's a very good ball player. He's a 6'5" power forward. For as much as he hangs in the paint on D and crashes the glass on the other end I would expect him to average closer to 10 rebounds. Not 5. Not anywhere near the athlete but I'd give Murphy a much better chance of playing in the NBA just because he does have that one thing you can count on.

now some of this just doesn't make sense, son. "he got it on stats" is something you say when national sportswriters make the choice. but when the SEC's own head coaches make the choice - it's because they're the pros with the eyes closest to what's going on. they scout it, they see it, they live it. i am not in any way implying that okoro isn't a great defender. but i'm stating the obvious, the coaches of the SEC picked pons over okoro for the award.

barnes played pons everywhere on D - from PG to C - wherever coach thought he was needed. i saw him working his ass off on nick richards (6-11 247 7-4 wingspan) and he was ceding nothing. but that might be why his rebounding numbers aren't stellar. if you're on the perimeter matched up with PGs and SGs - or inside against Cs who you're giving up 5 inches to - your numbers in that regard might not be great. no one is saying he's charles barkley on the boards. (but he did average 1 more rpg than okoro - and okoro is bigger.) his bread and butter in the pros will be as a wing and small ball PF defender. and maybe against some of the bigger PGs in the league. you need to put a dent in ben simmons for a bit because he's killing you? put pons on him.

as per jordan murphy - who averaged 6 rpg in the G this year - pons is so much more the superior athlete. i'll grant you that he's not a great basketball player yet - but as an athlete, he's in zion's territory. he's definitely got a long way to go as an offensive player - but here's a tidbit for you - isaac okoro from three this year (20 of 70 for 29%). pons from three this year (30 of 86 for 35%). in no way am i saying that pons is the better of the two, but offensively right now - he's got the edge over okoro in that department. and we won't get okoro because of his draft placement - whereas pons will be there available and cheap at 33.

for a guy who was a supreme disappointment his first two years at tennessee - he really blossomed this year - averaged 11 ppg after having scored 10 points in only one game his entire first two seasons - it shows that he's starting to find his spots offensively. and barnes played the hell out of him - 190 of a possible 200 minutes in their final 5 games - 34 mpg on the season - he knew how valuable he was to have on the court, plus it speaks highly of pons strength and conditioning as well.

i think you and i will just have to disagree on yves.

I dare you to go to youtube and look up interviews with coaches or athletic directors talking about this kind of voting. It's one of the oldest jokes in sports that the actual vote was made by the athletic director's secretary's son. Not saying Pons is not an athletic freak but he's a 6'5:" PF. And he has less basketball skil than 40 PF's 4-5 inches taller. He'll make a lot of money in europe.

okay. so i looked it up on youtube, found nothing, and i think you're just making shit up to suit your argument. and it makes no sense to say that coaches treat those awards as jokes - why would they devalue something that could be a motivating tool for their players? hell, high school JV nordic skiing coaches take post season awards seriously. you don't think college ballplayers care if they get the accolades - accolades that would likely help their draft position and earnings?

pons was on the nba scouts' radar before this year only because of his elite athleticism. and then he had a really good year, a great year - somewhat surprisingly to all - and NOW you think he should be written off? he went from near total insignificance as a sophomore to PT warrior and SEC DPOY as a junior. that's growth.

again - okoro shot fewer threes and made fewer threes at a lower percentage than pons - but pons is the one with no O? neither of them is going to take the league by storm with their ball-handling wizardry. pons is a terrible rebounder - but he averaged more rebounds than okoro, who is bigger? and both were named to the SEC all D team. who has the bigger chance of not living up to expectations in the nba - top 8 pick okoro or second rounder pons?

[Thrillkill]

now some of this just doesn't make sense, son. "he got it on stats" is something you say when national sportswriters make the choice. but when the SEC's own head coaches make the choice - it's because they're the pros with the eyes closest to what's going on. they scout it, they see it, they live it. i am not in any way implying that okoro isn't a great defender. but i'm stating the obvious, the coaches of the SEC picked pons over okoro for the award.

barnes played pons everywhere on D - from PG to C - wherever coach thought he was needed. i saw him working his ass off on nick richards (6-11 247 7-4 wingspan) and he was ceding nothing. but that might be why his rebounding numbers aren't stellar. if you're on the perimeter matched up with PGs and SGs - or inside against Cs who you're giving up 5 inches to - your numbers in that regard might not be great. no one is saying he's charles barkley on the boards. (but he did average 1 more rpg than okoro - and okoro is bigger.) his bread and butter in the pros will be as a wing and small ball PF defender. and maybe against some of the bigger PGs in the league. you need to put a dent in ben simmons for a bit because he's killing you? put pons on him.

as per jordan murphy - who averaged 6 rpg in the G this year - pons is so much more the superior athlete. i'll grant you that he's not a great basketball player yet - but as an athlete, he's in zion's territory. he's definitely got a long way to go as an offensive player - but here's a tidbit for you - isaac okoro from three this year (20 of 70 for 29%). pons from three this year (30 of 86 for 35%). in no way am i saying that pons is the better of the two, but offensively right now - he's got the edge over okoro in that department. and we won't get okoro because of his draft placement - whereas pons will be there available and cheap at 33.

for a guy who was a supreme disappointment his first two years at tennessee - he really blossomed this year - averaged 11 ppg after having scored 10 points in only one game his entire first two seasons - it shows that he's starting to find his spots offensively. and barnes played the hell out of him - 190 of a possible 200 minutes in their final 5 games - 34 mpg on the season - he knew how valuable he was to have on the court, plus it speaks highly of pons strength and conditioning as well.

i think you and i will just have to disagree on yves.

I dare you to go to youtube and look up interviews with coaches or athletic directors talking about this kind of voting. It's one of the oldest jokes in sports that the actual vote was made by the athletic director's secretary's son. Not saying Pons is not an athletic freak but he's a 6'5:" PF. And he has less basketball skil than 40 PF's 4-5 inches taller. He'll make a lot of money in europe.

okay. so i looked it up on youtube, found nothing, and i think you're just making shit up to suit your argument. and it makes no sense to say that coaches treat those awards as jokes - why would they devalue something that could be a motivating tool for their players? hell, high school JV nordic skiing coaches take post season awards seriously. you don't think college ballplayers care if they get the accolades - accolades that would likely help their draft position and earnings?

pons was on the nba scouts' radar before this year only because of his elite athleticism. and then he had a really good year, a great year - somewhat surprisingly to all - and NOW you think he's being written off? again - okoro shot fewer threes and made fewer threes at a lower percentage than pons - but pons is the one with no O? neither of them is going to take the league by storm with their ball-handling wizardry. pons is a terrible rebounder - but he averaged more rebounds than okoro, who is bigger? and both were named to the SEC all D team.

who has the bigger chance of not living up to expectations in the nba - top 8 pick okoro or second rounder pons?

You have seriously never heard guys on ESPN laughing about conference teams, "coaches" polls about how none of the coaches ever see the ballots because they don't give a shit? Do you have ESPN?

And he averaged more rebounds than Okoro because he's a PF and Okoro is a 3. Okoro guards and shuts down the other team's best perimeter player while jumping other players while Pons free lances in the lane for weak side blocks. Might as well say Obi gets more rebounds than Ball.

You seem to love to back your argument with numbers, well how about that Pons is a JR not a freshman. He is from europe where they take fundamentals 5 times as seriously as we do and he still can't shoot, dribble, or pass. How about that your defensive player of the year averages .4 steals. .4 steals. If that doesn't tell you he likes to cherry pick for weak side blocks I don't know what to tell you. Towns averages more than .4 steals. Shooting a robust 35% from 3 and 64% from the line. Last year as a soph? 28% and 40%. Okoro is a freshman.

Instead of chasing one number or award just ask yourself this. Why is it that Pons is in zero mock drafts? Because no one would ever tell him anything but go back you won't be drafted. Why is it Okoro is top 10 in every one and will get drafted entirely off his D? It's because his D is once in a generation not just fun to watch. He's already got a better handle than Pons and his shot looks better and projects better. Pons will go back to France and make huge money as a home town boy. Okoro will ruin careers by being the next Artest.

[j2j]

Yeah, it's typically some low assistant or GA that's filling those polls out. Coach K ain't filling out any coaches poll.

[somuchyummy]

forget pons. he is thru developing. at 21. apparently that crushing disability didn't prevent him from improving by leaps and bounds this year. you and i just disagree on the value thing. again, okoro looks like a great prospect - who WE WON'T DRAFT unless you want to take him top five and not toppin. that's the plan?

pons, who is so much more defensively than simply the opportunistic weak side shot blocker that you make him out to be (did you say that about brandon clarke?), will be a similar great multi-positional defender that okoro projects to be - only he'll be there super cheap for us at 33. and the "rap" you've got on him is that he cherry picks weakside blocks? because he's got not only the defensive awareness but also the superior athleticism to cover a lot of ground quickly and elevate like hell to be successful at it? yeah, it'd be HORRIBLE to add that to our team. HORRIBLE i say! KAT and naz have got our smothering interior D covered like white on rice, right? i guess i'd just prefer to have pons' gifts available to us off the bench more so than, say, kelan martin's.

and as for the assistant coaches making the picks so it's a joke? i don't buy it. and i could care less if the espn bobos chirp about something when they're trying to fill air time. perhaps some assistants make the picks. okay. and they don't know anything about basketball, about the players, the on court performances - and so treat the awards process as a joke? because EVERYONE knows how tolerant coach K - or most college head coaches -are about half-assing things concerning their programs? okay.

i think we'll just be disagreeing about this. my bottom line is that i think pons can be a really good to great nba defender and we need that.

[Ballin36]

Like I said earlier it's easy to see why almost all have GS taking Wiseman or using the pick in a trade but I can't help but think if they can't find a trade they would take Obi. He's easily the most game ready player at a position of need. And of course they are actually smart.

Atl certainly scares me. All talk is they don't want to pay Collins top dollar and he wants it. Definitely see them taking a younger cheaper version and trading Collins.

Really don't see any of the other bottom feeders taking him. Knicks certainly should but they are too stupid. They will miss out on Ball and then take the next man down way too high. Probably Anthony because he was a bum in every game I saw. But a lot of the longer shot teams could. Would be really tough to watch us not get a top 4 pick.

That ATL report is false fwiw.

“Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk told The Athletic that teams inquired about Collins’ availability at the trade deadline but that Atlanta wasn’t interested in parting with the big man. Schlenk went on to call Collins one of the Hawks best players.”

Sure he can be traded but it’d take a HUGE haul, which I don’t see happening.

And Collins imo is a superior prospect to Obi. Obi’s definitely not a cheaper version of him

It is called subterfuge FNG.

I doubt it & the same guy (Ric Bucher) that reported Collins was on the block said Durant was a lock to the Knicks fwiw. Teams inquired about Collins & he falsely ran with Hawks are trying to trade him.

“The Hawks are among the teams who have expressed interest in Capela, per Woj. They have talked to several teams about centers. Some of those teams have inquired about John Collins, sources say, thinking the Hawks might be worried about extension talks with Collins in the offseason.

Even if those teams are right, the Hawks have shown no interest in dealing Collins on any of the general terms bandied about, sources say.” -ESPN

[SO_MONEY]

That ATL report is false fwiw.

“Hawks general manager Travis Schlenk told The Athletic that teams inquired about Collins’ availability at the trade deadline but that Atlanta wasn’t interested in parting with the big man. Schlenk went on to call Collins one of the Hawks best players.”

Sure he can be traded but it’d take a HUGE haul, which I don’t see happening.

And Collins imo is a superior prospect to Obi. Obi’s definitely not a cheaper version of him

It is called subterfuge FNG.

I doubt it & the same guy (Ric Bucher) that reported Collins was on the block said Durant was a lock to the Knicks fwiw. Teams inquired about Collins & he falsely ran with Hawks are trying to trade him.

“The Hawks are among the teams who have expressed interest in Capela, per Woj. They have talked to several teams about centers. Some of those teams have inquired about John Collins, sources say, thinking the Hawks might be worried about extension talks with Collins in the offseason.

Even if those teams are right, the Hawks have shown no interest in dealing Collins on any of the general terms bandied about, sources say.” -ESPN

Subterfuge. I have no doubt in my mind, because it is likely one of two things 1. They want to trade him and are obviously not aiming to decrease his value by being transparent. 2. If they tried to trade him and couldn't or have yet to do so, they don't want the relationship to sour.

The only other option would be they don't want to trade him, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see they don't want to keep him at his asking price and take all that risk with his red flags. This is a poorly kept secret.

[Ballin36]

It is called subterfuge FNG.

I doubt it & the same guy (Ric Bucher) that reported Collins was on the block said Durant was a lock to the Knicks fwiw. Teams inquired about Collins & he falsely ran with Hawks are trying to trade him.

“The Hawks are among the teams who have expressed interest in Capela, per Woj. They have talked to several teams about centers. Some of those teams have inquired about John Collins, sources say, thinking the Hawks might be worried about extension talks with Collins in the offseason.

Even if those teams are right, the Hawks have shown no interest in dealing Collins on any of the general terms bandied about, sources say.” -ESPN

Subterfuge. I have no doubt in my mind, because it is likely one of two things 1. They want to trade him and are obviously not aiming to decrease his value by being transparent. 2. If they tried to trade him and couldn't or have yet to do so, they don't want the relationship to sour.

The only other option would be they don't want to trade him, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see they don't want to keep him at his asking price and take all that risk with his red flags. This is a poorly kept secret.

He just averaged 22-10 on 66 TS% in only 33 mpg while the Hawks apparently play at a +18 win pace total with him in the last 2 years. Only 22 years old.... and the Hawks have a TON of cap space. It makes absolutely 0 sense for them to not pay him when makes that big of impact ....(despite narrative he doesn’t bc of Hawks record)

Also because Collins was suspended means he has red flags? Apparently everybody in the Hawks organization loves him(was also their GM’s first pick when he got there)....& they won’t piss of Trae by trading by far their 2nd best player last year.

[SO_MONEY]

I doubt it & the same guy (Ric Bucher) that reported Collins was on the block said Durant was a lock to the Knicks fwiw. Teams inquired about Collins & he falsely ran with Hawks are trying to trade him.

“The Hawks are among the teams who have expressed interest in Capela, per Woj. They have talked to several teams about centers. Some of those teams have inquired about John Collins, sources say, thinking the Hawks might be worried about extension talks with Collins in the offseason.

Even if those teams are right, the Hawks have shown no interest in dealing Collins on any of the general terms bandied about, sources say.” -ESPN

Subterfuge. I have no doubt in my mind, because it is likely one of two things 1. They want to trade him and are obviously not aiming to decrease his value by being transparent. 2. If they tried to trade him and couldn't or have yet to do so, they don't want the relationship to sour.

The only other option would be they don't want to trade him, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see they don't want to keep him at his asking price and take all that risk with his red flags. This is a poorly kept secret.

He just averaged 22-10 on 66 TS% in only 33 mpg while the Hawks apparently play at a +18 win pace total with him in the last 2 years. Only 22 years old.... and the Hawks have a TON of cap space. It makes absolutely 0 sense for them to not pay him when makes that big of impact ....(despite narrative he doesn’t bc of Hawks record)

Also because Collins was suspended means he has red flags? Apparently everybody in the Hawks organization loves him(was also their GM’s first pick when he got there)....& they won’t piss of Trae by trading by far their 2nd best player last year.

Sigh. First in addition to the suspension he has had injuries, yes he has red flags. Second, I don't care about about what people are publicly saying...subterfuge.

[Ballin36]

Subterfuge. I have no doubt in my mind, because it is likely one of two things 1. They want to trade him and are obviously not aiming to decrease his value by being transparent. 2. If they tried to trade him and couldn't or have yet to do so, they don't want the relationship to sour.

The only other option would be they don't want to trade him, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see they don't want to keep him at his asking price and take all that risk with his red flags. This is a poorly kept secret.

He just averaged 22-10 on 66 TS% in only 33 mpg while the Hawks apparently play at a +18 win pace total with him in the last 2 years. Only 22 years old.... and the Hawks have a TON of cap space. It makes absolutely 0 sense for them to not pay him when makes that big of impact ....(despite narrative he doesn’t bc of Hawks record)

Also because Collins was suspended means he has red flags? Apparently everybody in the Hawks organization loves him(was also their GM’s first pick when he got there)....& they won’t piss of Trae by trading by far their 2nd best player last year.

Sigh. First in addition to the suspension he has had injuries, yes he has red flags. Second, I don't care about about what people are publicly saying...subterfuge.

He missed 1 game to injury this year & 15 games (at the beginning) of last year. But sure they’re trading because you said so. Sigh

Btw I moved to Atlanta from Minnesota 3 years ago....keep up & watch them a lot (not root). Has nothing to do with what ppl are publicly saying.

They should fire their GM if they trade him...seriously doubt it happens though. Hawks are going to try to win now, not go backwards & trade him for picks like you said. (why they traded 17 for Capela) But sure subterfuge. Lol

[SO_MONEY]

He just averaged 22-10 on 66 TS% in only 33 mpg while the Hawks apparently play at a +18 win pace total with him in the last 2 years. Only 22 years old.... and the Hawks have a TON of cap space. It makes absolutely 0 sense for them to not pay him when makes that big of impact ....(despite narrative he doesn’t bc of Hawks record)

Also because Collins was suspended means he has red flags? Apparently everybody in the Hawks organization loves him(was also their GM’s first pick when he got there)....& they won’t piss of Trae by trading by far their 2nd best player last year.

Sigh. First in addition to the suspension he has had injuries, yes he has red flags. Second, I don't care about about what people are publicly saying...subterfuge.

He missed 1 game to injury this year & 15 games (at the beginning) of last year. But sure they’re trading because you said so. Sigh

Btw I moved to Atlanta from Minnesota 3 years ago....keep up & watch them a lot (not root). Has nothing to do with what ppl are publicly saying.

They should fire their GM if they trade him...seriously doubt it happens though. Hawks are going to try to win now, not go backwards & trade him for picks like you said. (why they traded 17 for Capela) But sure subterfuge. Lol

We will see. I wouldn't pay him 2021 money unless Papa Glen wants to go into the LUX.

[Ballin36]

Sigh. First in addition to the suspension he has had injuries, yes he has red flags. Second, I don't care about about what people are publicly saying...subterfuge.

He missed 1 game to injury this year & 15 games (at the beginning) of last year. But sure they’re trading because you said so. Sigh

Btw I moved to Atlanta from Minnesota 3 years ago....keep up & watch them a lot (not root). Has nothing to do with what ppl are publicly saying.

They should fire their GM if they trade him...seriously doubt it happens though. Hawks are going to try to win now, not go backwards & trade him for picks like you said. (why they traded 17 for Capela) But sure subterfuge. Lol

We will see. I wouldn't pay him 2021 money.

I think that’s what most think because of Hawks record but like I said they do play at a +18 win total with him (saw it somewhere on Twitter) & eye test imo he’s as good as his numbers. (Averaged 25/10 on 71 TS% in last 26 gms & Hawks played close to .500 ball)

But he got suspended & w/ injuries last yr + shortened season I do agree he doesn’t deserve the max extension. (Nor do I think he wouldn’t sign for less) If he didn’t get suspended (Hawks went 4-21 w/o him) & Hawks were in playoff race maybe but obviously didn’t work out that way. I don’t think Collins is a bad guy at all off the court bc of the suspension either.

[somuchyummy]

he just seems a little goofy to me - but not a bad guy. remember that ridiculous pilot getup he had on for the dunk contest a couple years ago? couldn't get his googles to work right.

but yeah - if toppin was a two way beast instead of a one way beast with a question mark on the D side - i could see them shopping collins and taking toppin. but he's not. they got collins at a bargain late in the first round, he's been a really productive player for them, he's on the books next season for just $4M and then the next on a QO for $5somethingM, and he and toppin are pretty similar players with the difference being toppin can hit more threes while collins is the superior rebounder. plus he's a proven commodity whereas toppin ain't. i just don't see them giving up on such a productive young player when they owe him just $9M the next two years.

[Thrillkill]

Sigh. First in addition to the suspension he has had injuries, yes he has red flags. Second, I don't care about about what people are publicly saying...subterfuge.

He missed 1 game to injury this year & 15 games (at the beginning) of last year. But sure they’re trading because you said so. Sigh

Btw I moved to Atlanta from Minnesota 3 years ago....keep up & watch them a lot (not root). Has nothing to do with what ppl are publicly saying.

They should fire their GM if they trade him...seriously doubt it happens though. Hawks are going to try to win now, not go backwards & trade him for picks like you said. (why they traded 17 for Capela) But sure subterfuge. Lol

We will see. I wouldn't pay him 2021 money unless Papa Glen wants to go into the LUX.

Silly to ever think Taylor pays lux. And Atl was pissed at Collins because they were in talks when he tested positive and word was he stil was demanding max to sign early. Reports also said they would look to trade for a big to replace him and what happened.

I love the guy but he's Towns. All impressive O and no D. Pay that the max and get what we have.

[RubeTube]

Curious what the league ends up doing about the lottery, and when. And then of course the draft.

NFL has a sooner decision, but sounds like decided to be dumb.

Beyond that 24 paragraph posts rehashing the same old info don't intrigue me.

Decided to be dumb? Back to the bunker John boy.

There is ZERO reason we shouldn't do the drafts. You can do them with relative ease.

[RubeTube]

A few things here....

#1 this draft is obscenely atrocious as are most NBA drafts anymore. This one really takes the cake for shit though. At least most years you have a couple top guys to go with the rest of the shit.

#2 Wisemen is the UNANIMOUS #1 pick imo. I don't care about position. Move Carl to the #4 if need be. He can't defend anyway.

#3 I like the Toppin kid but we will be such a disaster defensively, I don't know how you can take him but he is likely to be the best player when the Wolves pick.

#4 I would be on the horn 24-7 trying to trade the pick. No, I don't want Gordon or Lauri etc.. try to package picks and Culver. Has to get you something right?

#5 I wish we had Brandon Clarke. The Culver pick was atrocious. I said the opposite on draft night but was completely wrong.

[Ballin36]

He missed 1 game to injury this year & 15 games (at the beginning) of last year. But sure they’re trading because you said so. Sigh

Btw I moved to Atlanta from Minnesota 3 years ago....keep up & watch them a lot (not root). Has nothing to do with what ppl are publicly saying.

They should fire their GM if they trade him...seriously doubt it happens though. Hawks are going to try to win now, not go backwards & trade him for picks like you said. (why they traded 17 for Capela) But sure subterfuge. Lol

We will see. I wouldn't pay him 2021 money unless Papa Glen wants to go into the LUX.

Silly to ever think Taylor pays lux. And Atl was pissed at Collins because they were in talks when he tested positive and word was he stil was demanding max to sign early. Reports also said they would look to trade for a big to replace him and what happened.

I love the guy but he's Towns. All impressive O and no D. Pay that the max and get what we have.

Atl has never been pissed at Collins though for that & he never demanded max earlier in the year (it was right before the season was suspended & he said he thinks he’s a max player bc of his #’s)

No they were looking for a C to pair next to Collins. Not trade him for one. He played next to scrubs like Len, Damian Jones & rookie Bruno Fernando (probably worst C rotation in the league at the time imo).

I don’t think Collins is that bad on D....has positive DRPM, DPIPM, allowed only 46 DFG% & was 15th in the nba in blocks this yr.

A few things here....

#1 this draft is obscenely atrocious as are most NBA drafts anymore. This one really takes the cake for shit though. At least most years you have a couple top guys to go with the rest of the shit.

#2 Wisemen is the UNANIMOUS #1 pick imo. I don't care about position. Move Carl to the #4 if need be. He can't defend anyway.

#3 I like the Toppin kid but we will be such a disaster defensively, I don't know how you can take him but he is likely to be the best player when the Wolves pick.

#4 I would be on the horn 24-7 trying to trade the pick. No, I don't want Gordon or Lauri etc.. try to package picks and Culver. Has to get you something right?

#5 I wish we had Brandon Clarke. The Culver pick was atrocious. I said the opposite on draft night but was completely wrong.

Hmm not sure about the Towns/Wiseman pairing. Him & Edwards have the highest potential in the draft though imo.

[somuchyummy]

A few things here....

#1 this draft is obscenely atrocious as are most NBA drafts anymore. This one really takes the cake for shit though. At least most years you have a couple top guys to go with the rest of the shit.

#2 Wisemen is the UNANIMOUS #1 pick imo. I don't care about position. Move Carl to the #4 if need be. He can't defend anyway.

#3 I like the Toppin kid but we will be such a disaster defensively, I don't know how you can take him but he is likely to be the best player when the Wolves pick.

#4 I would be on the horn 24-7 trying to trade the pick. No, I don't want Gordon or Lauri etc.. try to package picks and Culver. Has to get you something right?

#5 I wish we had Brandon Clarke. The Culver pick was atrocious. I said the opposite on draft night but was completely wrong.

remember the worries because clarke's shot wouldn't translate and he had no three ball? 62%/40%/79% on the year. missing him was such a mistake.

[Silversword]

Mike Schmitz did a piece on Toppin a couple weeks ago that does a nice job of illustrating his defensive limitations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpzVO39yCc. I was leaning toward Toppin as my favorite pick for the Wolves until I saw this. As others have pointed out, Toppin has the length and shot-blocking of a good post defender, but he's top-heavy like KAT, gets pushed around in the post like KAT, and doesn't move well laterally. After watching this video, I've softened a bit on Toppin's fit with the Wolves because he and KAT would make a poor defensive tandem. With that said, there are no perfect fits for the Wolves in this draft, so Toppin may still be our best option.

[somuchyummy]

Mike Schmitz did a piece on Toppin a couple weeks ago that does a nice job of illustrating his defensive limitations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpzVO39yCc. I was leaning toward Toppin as my favorite pick for the Wolves until I saw this. As others have pointed out, Toppin has the length and shot-blocking of a good post defender, but he's top-heavy like KAT, gets pushed around in the post like KAT, and doesn't move well laterally. After watching this video, I've softened a bit on Toppin's fit with the Wolves because he and KAT would make a poor defensive tandem. With that said, there are no perfect fits for the Wolves in this draft, so Toppin may still be our best option.

okongwu and okoro are better fits defensively - but if we're picking three or better, we could trade back a bit and still get either one. my preference if we go that route is okongwu. i think we've got enough firepower at the 3, which would be okoro's best spot - but could use more help at the 4 - so OO would be the guy. and before you say "yeah, but okongwu's a 5" - yes, he is. but he'd be able to DEFEND either the 4 or 5 depending on what needed the best defender - on O he plays the 5 and KAT the 4 - which would be zero stretch for KAT.

[Silversword]

Mike Schmitz did a piece on Toppin a couple weeks ago that does a nice job of illustrating his defensive limitations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpzVO39yCc. I was leaning toward Toppin as my favorite pick for the Wolves until I saw this. As others have pointed out, Toppin has the length and shot-blocking of a good post defender, but he's top-heavy like KAT, gets pushed around in the post like KAT, and doesn't move well laterally. After watching this video, I've softened a bit on Toppin's fit with the Wolves because he and KAT would make a poor defensive tandem. With that said, there are no perfect fits for the Wolves in this draft, so Toppin may still be our best option.

okongwu and okoro are better fits defensively - but if we're picking three or better, we could trade back a bit and still get either one. my preference if we go that route is okongwu. i think we've got enough firepower at the 3, which would be okoro's best spot - but could use more help at the 4 - so OO would be the guy. and before you say "yeah, but okongwu's a 5" - yes, he is. but he'd be able to DEFEND either the 4 or 5 depending on what needed the best defender - on O he plays the 5 and KAT the 4 - which would be zero stretch for KAT.

I like Okongwu a lot too. He's a perfect compliment to KAT on the defensive end and has a non-stop motor. My favorite stat on him is that he has one of the highest BPM metrics of the last 25 years - only five freshman with DBPM & BPM as high - KAT, the Brow, Jaren Jackson Jr, Embiid and Noel. And at an athletic 6'9", he should be able to play PF. My concern with OO is that he's not a floor spacer and I think that might be a deal breaker for the Wolves FO... although he has a nice stroke so he should be able to develop a 3P shot. Heh - what we need is to get OO and Toppin into a lab and make a hybrid clone with Toppin's offense and OO's defense. I think I'd like that player!!!

[somuchyummy]

i'll be happy with either one - just so long as we address our PF needs with the first pick. i'm probably hedging more towards okongwu because he'll be the better defender and i think we just need that more - plenty of O on our starting five with KAT, dlo and beasley. but like i said, i'll be happy with either one - and just hope to god that rosas doesn't pull some brilliant move like going with tyrese maxey or cole anthony.