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Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

A place to discuss the MN Timberwolves
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T_J
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Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by T_J »

I'm banned on this site more times than I can count.

Can someone login and trash this guy pumping Duncan's "crappy" teammates in 2003 to degrade our legend. He neglects many San Antonio players, it's a fairly deep roster and well rounded.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... &t=1883721
SA Spurs 2003 championship team roster (Won 60 games)
ORTG 7th
DRTG 3rd

Tim Duncan led that in blocks/pts/rebounds and second in assists

He also led that team in TS% and just about every other advanced stat

The second best player on that team could have been either:

- 2nd year, 20 year old Tony Parker

or

- 31 year old Bruce Bowen

or

- 37 year old David Robinson

Tony Parker avg'd 5.3 assists per game. That is horrible for a starting PG in any era.

He did average 15.5 PPG with a TS% of .542 which is ok, I guess acceptable during the RS. But in the playoffs Tony's numbers took a dip to 14.7 PPG but with a TS% of .468. Tony was horrible in the playoffs and was pulled out of playoff games for Speedy Claxton.

Bruce Bowen while being one of the best man defenders I've ever seen and was invaluable to the Spurs defensive gameplan was just as much of a liability of on offense. His PER during the RS was 9.1 and went down to 8.9 during the playoffs. He was the original "3 and D" guy but not like they are now. He averaged less than two made 3pt shots a game, and always from the corner. You couldn't put Bruce on the wings at all.

David Robinson was also a great contributor on defense but by that time he was 37 years old and he retired after this season. He was only playing half a game, averaging 26 MPG in the RS and 24 MPG in the PS.


This is why Duncan is far and away better than KG. This roster is no better than any of the rosters Garnett had in Minnesota. This is one of the best one man carry jobs that has occurred in the NBA. No one came close to playing All Star caliber on the Spurs and Wally would have been the best shooter on the team.

I bet Wally would have killed to play with Duncan because at least he wouldn't be getting into fights with him.

To provide context, the Wolves 2004 team had better talent than the 2003 Spurs and Garnett still couldn't win 60 games or get to the finals. While Duncan led the Spurs over Kobe/Shaq and Dirk/Nash in the playoffs.

This is why KG has no argument.

Outcome matters, stats do not.

Nobody is going to care about KG's stats after they see Duncan winning a title in 2003 with this roster..
.....
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flexbuffchest
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by flexbuffchest »

Would have been fun watching Duncan trying to play PG in the play offs if Parker/all their PG's got injured.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by j2j »

I agree with his overall point, but not his desperate stretch to make it. He's trying way too hard.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by T_J »

Yes, there's other ways to make a Duncan > KG argument. This however is weak as shit. KG could win a title with that 03 roster.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by kilkenny »

No mention of coaching? Pop?
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by Moses Scurry »

Duncan was a slightly better offensive player though his numbers weren't necessarily better, that is about all the difference IMO. I'd trust Duncan to get a bucket before KG. Other than that, they are in a dead heat.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by Vendetta11 »

Moses Scurry wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:54 am Duncan was a slightly better offensive player though his numbers weren't necessarily better, that is about all the difference IMO. I'd trust Duncan to get a bucket before KG. Other than that, they are in a dead heat.
Pretty much this - and Duncan's defense was probably just as good as Garnett's, just less flashy of course. But Duncan always had the far superior supporting cast, head coach, and front office.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by LordNu »

Fuck RealGM, they let idiots run with anything on there and you can’t upset them by shutting them down with conviction, lest you be banned. What a clown
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by YBBR »

LordNu wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:11 am Fuck RealGM, they let idiots run with anything on there and you can’t upset them by shutting them down with conviction, lest you be banned. What a clown
Preach!
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by Moses Scurry »

YBBR wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 am
LordNu wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:11 am Fuck RealGM, they let idiots run with anything on there and you can’t upset them by shutting them down with conviction, lest you be banned. What a clown
Preach!
I've never seen the normally level headed LordNu get so worked up! :thinking: :thumbsup:
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by zeitgeist »

FYI, G35 is a complete trash tier poster, he's a KG hater primarily because there's a big surge among the best posters on the Player Comparison board to put KG above Kobe, so he'll push back anytime he can. He also does the same thing against LeBron too.

Duncan's 2003 team was markedly better than KG's 2004 championship contending team, even with Sam Cassell on the team, which we know that the championship aspirations left when Cassell went down for an injury in the WCF. People simply don't have a damned clue how bad KG's supporting cast was, particularly in the years he missed the playoffs.

Yes, the General Board of Real GM is pretty mediocre there are some great people that post every once in awhile but most of them have congregated on the Player Comparison board in the past. Though sadly a lot of those posters don't post in the Player Comparison board much anymore either.
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by SHAFA »

He loses me the moment he takes Parker to task for his low assist numbers.

Okay, dude.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by jodaman01 »

Moses Scurry wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:35 am
YBBR wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:27 am
LordNu wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:11 am Fuck RealGM, they let idiots run with anything on there and you can’t upset them by shutting them down with conviction, lest you be banned. What a clown
Preach!
I've never seen the normally level headed LordNu get so worked up! :thinking: :thumbsup:
I was shocked as well. :o

If you piss off LordNu you piss us all off!!

RUN WITH THE PACK!!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

zeitgeist wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:45 am FYI, G35 is a complete trash tier poster, he's a KG hater primarily because there's a big surge among the best posters on the Player Comparison board to put KG above Kobe, so he'll push back anytime he can. He also does the same thing against LeBron too.

Duncan's 2003 team was markedly better than KG's 2004 championship contending team, even with Sam Cassell on the team, which we know that the championship aspirations left when Cassell went down for an injury in the WCF. People simply don't have a damned clue how bad KG's supporting cast was, particularly in the years he missed the playoffs.

Yes, the General Board of Real GM is pretty mediocre there are some great people that post every once in awhile but most of them have congregated on the Player Comparison board in the past. Though sadly a lot of those posters don't post in the Player Comparison board much anymore either.
KG over Kobe? :lol: That's dumb as fawk.

I do agree that Duncan always had a better supporting cast. Duncan was a much better player than KG though.

I never even thought the team that reached the WCFs was that good. I found it to be a fluke that they were that good that year. It didn't surprise me at all that the whole thing fell apart the year after.

Long story short...

Kobe>Duncan>KG

Duncan definitely had better teams around him.

Let me guess, some new age nerds that were probably 4 years old when these guys were playing have some analytics for that argument?

Kobe Bryant was a killer. There was a reason it was Kobe vs Jordan one on one in Jordans last all star game. KG was a nice player but he didn't completely take over down the stretch and beat teams. In fact, his knock here was that he didn't want the big shot. It took him going to Boston with two of the biggest shot makers to get a ring.

Garnett was a nice player but there is absolutely no way he belong ahead of Kobe Bryant.

One of the reasons people would even make such a asinine comparison is the hate that Bryant gets. He's either loved or completely hated. Not ONE NBA GM would have traded Kobe Bryant straight up for KG.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by YBBR »

Kobe and KG are like 13 and 15 or 16 in my top 25 of all time or whatever.

Kobe won 2 as the best player on his team.
KG won 1 as the best player on his team.

Kobe better scorer, certainly. KG.....pretty much better at everything else.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by YBBR »

I strongly disagree Kobe is better than Duncan I think you ask about 100 NBA people and you're going to get about 95 or so saying Duncan > Kobe.

Duncan is top 10. Kobe is not.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by zeitgeist »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:42 pm
zeitgeist wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:45 am FYI, G35 is a complete trash tier poster, he's a KG hater primarily because there's a big surge among the best posters on the Player Comparison board to put KG above Kobe, so he'll push back anytime he can. He also does the same thing against LeBron too.

Duncan's 2003 team was markedly better than KG's 2004 championship contending team, even with Sam Cassell on the team, which we know that the championship aspirations left when Cassell went down for an injury in the WCF. People simply don't have a damned clue how bad KG's supporting cast was, particularly in the years he missed the playoffs.

Yes, the General Board of Real GM is pretty mediocre there are some great people that post every once in awhile but most of them have congregated on the Player Comparison board in the past. Though sadly a lot of those posters don't post in the Player Comparison board much anymore either.
KG over Kobe? :lol: That's dumb as fawk.

I do agree that Duncan always had a better supporting cast. Duncan was a much better player than KG though.

I never even thought the team that reached the WCFs was that good. I found it to be a fluke that they were that good that year. It didn't surprise me at all that the whole thing fell apart the year after.

Long story short...

Kobe>Duncan>KG

Duncan definitely had better teams around him.

Let me guess, some new age nerds that were probably 4 years old when these guys were playing have some analytics for that argument?

Kobe Bryant was a killer. There was a reason it was Kobe vs Jordan one on one in Jordans last all star game. KG was a nice player but he didn't completely take over down the stretch and beat teams. In fact, his knock here was that he didn't want the big shot. It took him going to Boston with two of the biggest shot makers to get a ring.

Garnett was a nice player but there is absolutely no way he belong ahead of Kobe Bryant.

One of the reasons people would even make such a asinine comparison is the hate that Bryant gets. He's either loved or completely hated. Not ONE NBA GM would have traded Kobe Bryant straight up for KG.
You are not a good basketball.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

YBBR wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:55 pm I strongly disagree Kobe is better than Duncan I think you ask about 100 NBA people and you're going to get about 95 or so saying Duncan > Kobe.

Duncan is top 10. Kobe is not.
I am still going Kobe here but I can hear this argument.

KG not close imo.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

zeitgeist wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:48 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:42 pm
zeitgeist wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:45 am FYI, G35 is a complete trash tier poster, he's a KG hater primarily because there's a big surge among the best posters on the Player Comparison board to put KG above Kobe, so he'll push back anytime he can. He also does the same thing against LeBron too.

Duncan's 2003 team was markedly better than KG's 2004 championship contending team, even with Sam Cassell on the team, which we know that the championship aspirations left when Cassell went down for an injury in the WCF. People simply don't have a damned clue how bad KG's supporting cast was, particularly in the years he missed the playoffs.

Yes, the General Board of Real GM is pretty mediocre there are some great people that post every once in awhile but most of them have congregated on the Player Comparison board in the past. Though sadly a lot of those posters don't post in the Player Comparison board much anymore either.
KG over Kobe? :lol: That's dumb as fawk.

I do agree that Duncan always had a better supporting cast. Duncan was a much better player than KG though.

I never even thought the team that reached the WCFs was that good. I found it to be a fluke that they were that good that year. It didn't surprise me at all that the whole thing fell apart the year after.

Long story short...

Kobe>Duncan>KG

Duncan definitely had better teams around him.

Let me guess, some new age nerds that were probably 4 years old when these guys were playing have some analytics for that argument?

Kobe Bryant was a killer. There was a reason it was Kobe vs Jordan one on one in Jordans last all star game. KG was a nice player but he didn't completely take over down the stretch and beat teams. In fact, his knock here was that he didn't want the big shot. It took him going to Boston with two of the biggest shot makers to get a ring.

Garnett was a nice player but there is absolutely no way he belong ahead of Kobe Bryant.

One of the reasons people would even make such a asinine comparison is the hate that Bryant gets. He's either loved or completely hated. Not ONE NBA GM would have traded Kobe Bryant straight up for KG.
You are not a good basketball.
You can think what you want to think but

Kobe has more rings, more All NBA teams, More All star game appearances and both have the same all time defensive team.

Find me a list anywhere that puts KG over Kobe and link it.

KG wasn't even the best player at his position in his era.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by zeitgeist »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:11 am
Find me a list anywhere that puts KG over Kobe and link it.
Here's a list that's better than any you can provide.

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/
13 Kobe Bryant
12 Oscar Robertson
11 Larry Bird
10 Magic Johnson
9 Wilt Chamberlain
8 Kevin Garnett
7 Tim Duncan
6 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Shaquille O’Neal
4 Bill Russell
3 Michael Jordan
2 LeBron James
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:15 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:11 am
Find me a list anywhere that puts KG over Kobe and link it.
Here's a list that's better than any you can provide.

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/
13 Kobe Bryant
12 Oscar Robertson
11 Larry Bird
10 Magic Johnson
9 Wilt Chamberlain
8 Kevin Garnett
7 Tim Duncan
6 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Shaquille O’Neal
4 Bill Russell
3 Michael Jordan
2 LeBron James
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Lol. Find another one.

I'm looking at list SLAM etc and they don't even have KG in the same realm. They have Kobe #6 and KG #26.

You are a moron if you think KG was better than Magic Johnson :lol:

Jordan behind James :lol:

Did you actually watch these guys play? Serious question.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by zeitgeist »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:19 am
zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:15 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:11 am
Find me a list anywhere that puts KG over Kobe and link it.
Here's a list that's better than any you can provide.

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/
13 Kobe Bryant
12 Oscar Robertson
11 Larry Bird
10 Magic Johnson
9 Wilt Chamberlain
8 Kevin Garnett
7 Tim Duncan
6 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Shaquille O’Neal
4 Bill Russell
3 Michael Jordan
2 LeBron James
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Lol. Find another one.

I'm looking at list SLAM etc and they don't even have KG in the same realm. They have Kobe #6 and KG #26.

You are a moron if you think KG was better than Magic Johnson :lol:

Jordan behind James :lol:

Did you actually watch these guys play? Serious question.
:lol: SLAM

KG is better than Magic Johnson because the person who created the list is looking at total career value and guys like Magic and Bird had short careers.

I guarantee that the person who created that list has watched far more of every one of these players than you.
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/n ... ba-history

Espn doesn't even have him in the top 3 at his position. #5!

SLAM has him as #26 all time


I agree with ESPN. I'm taking Dirk over KG even.

SI doesn't have him in that range either.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:29 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:19 am
zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:15 am

Here's a list that's better than any you can provide.

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/
13 Kobe Bryant
12 Oscar Robertson
11 Larry Bird
10 Magic Johnson
9 Wilt Chamberlain
8 Kevin Garnett
7 Tim Duncan
6 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Shaquille O’Neal
4 Bill Russell
3 Michael Jordan
2 LeBron James
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Lol. Find another one.

I'm looking at list SLAM etc and they don't even have KG in the same realm. They have Kobe #6 and KG #26.

You are a moron if you think KG was better than Magic Johnson :lol:

Jordan behind James :lol:

Did you actually watch these guys play? Serious question.
:lol: SLAM

KG is better than Magic Johnson because the person who created the list is looking at total career value and guys like Magic and Bird had short careers.

I guarantee that the person who created that list has watched far more of every one of these players than you.
Well obviously you haven't watched many of them or you would have said that.

I watched the 80's, 90's and up until a few years ago religiously.

You have ONE list that has KG that high with hundreds of lists online. I'm suppose to care about the ONE you found because it supports your argument.

You should stay in your lane. I never argue greats that I never watched play. Was Russell better than Wilt? Was Wilt better than Shaq? I have no clue because I didn't watch them.

I do know that KG isn't in the same realm with Kobe. Great. He played a million years and accumulated stats while Magic had his career cut short.

There is not even a comparison. Magic Johnson transformed and transcended a era. KG wasn't even the best player at his position in his.

You are a disgrace to the game of basketball with your "List"
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by zeitgeist »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 am
zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:29 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:19 am

Lol. Find another one.

I'm looking at list SLAM etc and they don't even have KG in the same realm. They have Kobe #6 and KG #26.

You are a moron if you think KG was better than Magic Johnson :lol:

Jordan behind James :lol:

Did you actually watch these guys play? Serious question.
:lol: SLAM

KG is better than Magic Johnson because the person who created the list is looking at total career value and guys like Magic and Bird had short careers.

I guarantee that the person who created that list has watched far more of every one of these players than you.
Well obviously you haven't watched many of them or you would have said that.

I watched the 80's, 90's and up until a few years ago religiously.

You have ONE list that has KG that high with hundreds of lists online. I'm suppose to care about the ONE you found because it supports your argument.

You should stay in your lane. I never argue greats that I never watched play. Was Russell better than Wilt? Was Wilt better than Shaq? I have no clue because I didn't watch them.

I do know that KG isn't in the same realm with Kobe. Great. He played a million years and accumulated stats while Magic had his career cut short.

There is not even a comparison. Magic Johnson transformed and transcended a era. KG wasn't even the best player at his position in his.

You are a disgrace to the game of basketball with your "List"
I don't care what you watched, you lack the ability to comprehend what you're seeing like most casual basketball fans.

You are not a great, or even a good basketball.

Your takes have always been trash.

You were carrying water for Andrew Wiggins up until last year, you only understand the game on the most basic level.

I'd get into this further but I'd clearly be wasting my time.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:29 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:19 am
zeitgeist wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:15 am

Here's a list that's better than any you can provide.

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/
13 Kobe Bryant
12 Oscar Robertson
11 Larry Bird
10 Magic Johnson
9 Wilt Chamberlain
8 Kevin Garnett
7 Tim Duncan
6 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Shaquille O’Neal
4 Bill Russell
3 Michael Jordan
2 LeBron James
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Lol. Find another one.

I'm looking at list SLAM etc and they don't even have KG in the same realm. They have Kobe #6 and KG #26.

You are a moron if you think KG was better than Magic Johnson :lol:

Jordan behind James :lol:

Did you actually watch these guys play? Serious question.
:lol: SLAM

KG is better than Magic Johnson because the person who created the list is looking at total career value and guys like Magic and Bird had short careers.

I guarantee that the person who created that list has watched far more of every one of these players than you.
Ya SLAM, ESPN etc..

You got me linked to a Ben Taylor piece.

Some new age noob with 100,000 youtube subscribers and by the way... It's EXSCTLY what I stated earlier.

I said it has to be some nerd ass advanced stats when I first made a comment and that is exactly what you gave me.

No offense to you Zietgiest I just strongly disagree with that list.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by KevinBaconIsNotMyHero »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:40 am https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/n ... ba-history

Espn doesn't even have him in the top 3 at his position. #5!

SLAM has him as #26 all time


I agree with ESPN. I'm taking Dirk over KG even.

SI doesn't have him in that range either.
Dirk Nowitski over Kevin Garnett is absolutely asinine.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by RubeTube »

KevinBaconIsNotMyHero wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:35 am
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:40 am https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/n ... ba-history

Espn doesn't even have him in the top 3 at his position. #5!

SLAM has him as #26 all time


I agree with ESPN. I'm taking Dirk over KG even.

SI doesn't have him in that range either.
Dirk Nowitski over Kevin Garnett is absolutely asinine.
Ya, probably.

I don't think Barkley should be ahead of him either. Malone you can make a argument.

KG just wasn't a finisher imo and that really hurts him in this discussion.
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by YBBR »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:02 am
YBBR wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:55 pm I strongly disagree Kobe is better than Duncan I think you ask about 100 NBA people and you're going to get about 95 or so saying Duncan > Kobe.

Duncan is top 10. Kobe is not.
I am still going Kobe here but I can hear this argument.

KG not close imo.
My bad man. Didn't mean to come off so aggressively. I respect your opinion.

They were all awesome players in their respective primes. And I admit the Kobe hate is still swirling inside of me somewhere.
"Come up off your smooth talk player, this raspy. You stuck on Morse code player, this ASCII."
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Defend KG's honor (RealGM related)

Post by Moses Scurry »

Kobe ain't carrying any of those KG teams to a better record. Once Shaq left, 35, 45, 42 wins. Kobe only started winning because he got the legendary Pau Gasol who lead the team in win shares. Kobe also lost to KG lead team in the finals and were lucky KG started to break down or that Celtics team would have won more.

Kobe was carried by Shaq and Gasol. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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