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Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

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j2j
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:41 am
SO_MONEY wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:37 am
thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:34 am Laws and interpretations change dipshit. Even the constitution changes.

You want to compare sodomy laws ruled unconstitutional to taking away gun permits for criminals.

:lol:
So when the laws were on the books you would have convicted a person and sent them to prison for sodomy. Got it. Some of us wouldn't have. Because, well it would be wrong.
No I wouldn’t have.

I said law interpretation changes.

Can you read?

I’ve appealed to you three idiots for common sense

You have none.

You have a black and white view of ever-changing government and laws.

You three idiots agree and everyone else thinks you’re lunatics.

I’m content with that.

:thumbsup:
I generally ignore your posts/replies, there's hardly ever any value provided. Why do you feel the need to call people "idiots" and "lunatics" over something like this? And speak for "everyone else"?
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SO_MONEY
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:37 am
thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:15 am
j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:10 am Agree or disagree, what it seems Rasho and So_Money are saying makes perfect sense.
No it doesn’t.

The reason sodomy laws aren’t enforced is because they were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

States enforcing them is just banging their head against the wall.

Show me where gun permits were ruled unconstitutional or anything of the ilk.

You can’t.

You libertarians gotta stick together tho.
In all fairness I'm not a fan of Rasho, So_Money, or you. It has nothing to do with sticking together, but rather understanding someone else's argument despite other differences.

To me their argument stems more from the belief that for something to be a crime there should be a victim or a reasonable potential victim. Sodomy laws are BS because assuming all involved are consenting parties there is no victim. Same with gun ownership. Telfair's owning/possessing a gun in itself doesn't have a victim or reasonal potential victim.

His argument is just because a group of people have deemed something a crime doesn't make it just.
Correct.

And I never said people NEED to agree with me, now or ever, it is a philosophical argument and not a complicated one. I would just rather apply my test of the law than sentence undeserving people to prison or to sentences which don't fit the crime if a crime even existed in the first place. Protect the law, the spirt of the law and justice. And not all of them can coexist in some cases.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by thinktank »

NotRasho wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:52 am
j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:44 am I generally ignore your posts/replies, there's hardly ever any value provided. Why do you feel the need to call people "idiots" and "lunatics" over something like this? And speak for "everyone else"?
Its because he is an unhinged hypocrite who argues with emotion. Thinktank will never understand any point of view other than his own. All other points of view are driven by racism, hate, bigotry, etc etc. And when he gets logical arguments thrown at him which dont fit within that narrative he goes rogue and just shits everywhere to distract people from his having nothing logical to say.
Rasho answering an accusation of me speaking for others by speaking for others.

Brilliant!

:lol:



It takes a lot of time and money to clean up old laws on the books.

Prioritization is all this conversation is about.

Not what’s constitutional or not.

“Well-regulated” has been decided by We The People to mean get a gun permit and certain criminals can’t have guns.

Simple.
Last edited by thinktank on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:41 am
SO_MONEY wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:37 am
thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:34 am Laws and interpretations change dipshit. Even the constitution changes.

You want to compare sodomy laws ruled unconstitutional to taking away gun permits for criminals.

:lol:
So when the laws were on the books you would have convicted a person and sent them to prison for sodomy. Got it. Some of us wouldn't have. Because, well it would be wrong.
No I wouldn’t have.

I said law interpretation changes.

Can you read?

I’ve appealed to you three idiots for common sense

You have none.

You have a black and white view of ever-changing government and laws.

You three idiots agree and everyone else thinks you’re lunatics.

I’m content with that.

:thumbsup:
Lol. Can you read? I said when laws were on the books. The law hadn't changed at that point. It is a hypothetical. Using your logic you would convict them and put aside your personal feelings on if the law was valid or not. If that is not the case then we agree on what can be done regarding nullification. And you are arguing against no one. Except you clearly are not going consistent and are a hypocrite because of it.
Last edited by SO_MONEY on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by thinktank »

Politically, you three are schmucks. Why no one else is talking to you. And now I’m dome wasting my time too. You won’t change from your idiotic views.

Going to dog park.

It’s a beautiful day.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:57 am Politically, you three are schmucks. Why no one else is talking to you. And now I’m dome wasting my time too. You won’t change from your idiotic views.

Going to dog park.

It’s a beautiful day.
You provide no value. You've called me an idiot, a lunatic, and a schmuck but have provided no value or substance. And for what reason? Because I dare say I can understand someone else's point of view? Or that I think there should be a victim or a reasonable potential victim for any crime?

Enjoy your day. It is gorgeous out.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

Arnold Schwarzenegger wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:21 pm Keep politics to polichat.
Keep your face to PoliSpaz.

We're just discussing our favorite basketball player's prison sentence. No politics here.

PS: Why does this shithole keep logging me out when I try to post?
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:52 pm
thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:57 am Politically, you three are schmucks. Why no one else is talking to you. And now I’m dome wasting my time too. You won’t change from your idiotic views.

Going to dog park.

It’s a beautiful day.
You provide no value. You've called me an idiot, a lunatic, and a schmuck but have provided no value or substance. And for what reason? Because I dare say I can understand someone else's point of view? Or that I think there should be a victim or a reasonable potential victim for any crime?

Enjoy your day. It is gorgeous out.
True, true. You are even getting lumped in with me and I am not a fan of the idea of "reasonable potential", because that requires speculation of what might happen and what is the test for that? 51% likelihood? 1% likelihood? Somewhere in-between? I see those as more petty offences, punishable in ways, but not crimes (no jail time). But I am not going to call you an idiot or other names for thinking that. It shows you have put serious consideration into what justice entails and such behavior would in no way be warranted. It is just a difference in perspective and why we have courts. And if nothing, it provides value to the conversation.

What kills me about this is people sling mud, but can't make it through the conversation without proving that under the right conditions they would nullify a jury...yet hate the idea if people did it contrary to something they agree with or dislike.

All this should have been someone responding to my passing comment by saying "I agree with the gun laws, I would convict". To which I would say "super, I wouldn't". And people move on. And we should move on, because the dialogue that followed has been dishonest and against good faith. Those who are "right(er)" know it, most everyone knows it if they can be honest about it. It is a dead debate.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

SO_MONEY wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:54 pm
j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:52 pm
thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:57 am Politically, you three are schmucks. Why no one else is talking to you. And now I’m dome wasting my time too. You won’t change from your idiotic views.

Going to dog park.

It’s a beautiful day.
You provide no value. You've called me an idiot, a lunatic, and a schmuck but have provided no value or substance. And for what reason? Because I dare say I can understand someone else's point of view? Or that I think there should be a victim or a reasonable potential victim for any crime?

Enjoy your day. It is gorgeous out.
True, true. You are even getting lumped in with me and I am not a fan of the idea of "reasonable potential", because that requires speculation of what might happen and what is the test for that? 51% likelihood? 1% likelihood? Somewhere in-between? I see those as more petty offences, punishable in ways, but not crimes (no jail time). But I am not going to call you an idiot or other names for thinking that. It shows you have put serious consideration into what justice entails and such behavior would in no way be warranted. It is just a difference in perspective and why we have courts. And if nothing, it provides value to the conversation.

What kills me about this is people sling mud, but can't make it through the conversation without proving that under the right conditions they would nullify a jury...yet hate the idea if people did it contrary to something they agree with or dislike.

All this should have been someone responding to my passing comment by saying "I agree with the gun laws, I would convict". To which I would say "super, I wouldn't". And people move on. And we should move on, because the dialogue that followed has been dishonest and against good faith. Those who are "right(er)" know it, most everyone knows it if they can be honest about it. It is a dead debate.
I say "reasonable potential" because I've had people try and play semantics with using just victimless by saying, "oh so I can shoot a gun in a crowded room and as long as it doesn't hit anyone there's no victim it's ok" or "I can drive blasted drunk swerving down the freeway and as long as I don't hit anyone it's ok". Theres a reasonable potential victim in those scenarios. In those cases there's a direct action taken that could likely result in a victim.

Smoking pot, consensual sex between adults, possessing a firearm in itself doesn't have a victim, thus there should be no crime.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:03 pm
SO_MONEY wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:54 pm
j2j wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:52 pm

You provide no value. You've called me an idiot, a lunatic, and a schmuck but have provided no value or substance. And for what reason? Because I dare say I can understand someone else's point of view? Or that I think there should be a victim or a reasonable potential victim for any crime?

Enjoy your day. It is gorgeous out.
True, true. You are even getting lumped in with me and I am not a fan of the idea of "reasonable potential", because that requires speculation of what might happen and what is the test for that? 51% likelihood? 1% likelihood? Somewhere in-between? I see those as more petty offences, punishable in ways, but not crimes (no jail time). But I am not going to call you an idiot or other names for thinking that. It shows you have put serious consideration into what justice entails and such behavior would in no way be warranted. It is just a difference in perspective and why we have courts. And if nothing, it provides value to the conversation.

What kills me about this is people sling mud, but can't make it through the conversation without proving that under the right conditions they would nullify a jury...yet hate the idea if people did it contrary to something they agree with or dislike.

All this should have been someone responding to my passing comment by saying "I agree with the gun laws, I would convict". To which I would say "super, I wouldn't". And people move on. And we should move on, because the dialogue that followed has been dishonest and against good faith. Those who are "right(er)" know it, most everyone knows it if they can be honest about it. It is a dead debate.
I say "reasonable potential" because I've had people try and play semantics with using just victimless by saying, "oh so I can shoot a gun in a crowded room and as long as it doesn't hit anyone there's no victim it's ok" or "I can drive blasted drunk swerving down the freeway and as long as I don't hit anyone it's ok". Theres a reasonable potential victim in those scenarios. In those cases there's a direct action taken that could likely result in a victim.

Smoking pot, consensual sex between adults, possessing a firearm in itself doesn't have a victim, thus there should be no crime.
I get what you are saying and situations where there is negligent behavior, but no victim are difficult to qualify. That is why I feel those circumstances need to be categorized as something different entirety. How that is done, I don't exactly know, but I don't think people should go to prison for things that "almost" or may have happened, but didn't. The closest thing we have are petty offences. I don't think your opinion is stupid on anything, we are just different people who see things differently.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

"I dont think your opinion is stupid..."

That might be the nicest thing that's ever been said to me on froobchat. :love:
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by zeitgeist »

thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:23 am You Libertarians live in fantasy land.

Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by mlhouse »

Mplsfonz wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:16 am
SO_MONEY wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:15 pm
digitalwolf wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:09 pm

Hence why this isn't some libertarian argument.....this is stupid vs smart. Seabass is clearly not the latter.
I see no problem with him owning those, yes he was stupid, but stupid people have rights too.
Do you really want "stupid people" owning GUNS?

He was stupid because he had already been busted for this before, and IMO he thought he was special, and could do WTF he wanted.
He should have applied for a conceal and carry, (which are rare in NY) and he should not have had and assault rifle in the truck.

NY rights are not the same as ANY other state. He should have known being a native. Idiots belong in jail. Where are his rights now? I don't feel sorry for any ex pro who lets their ego get in the way of common sense.
AP is broke as hell now after earning a 100 million dollars. Feel sorry for him?
Where is the "assault rifle" in this picture?
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by mlhouse »

SO_MONEY wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:36 pm
thinktank wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm
NotRasho wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:42 pm

Its fun making you concede every topic we engage in. It always ends the same way, you getting boxed and in an attempt to save face claim its beneath you or im too boring etc. Truth is you don't have an intelligent response but are too emotionally unhinged to come to grips with it.

What should I do to be more entertaining? Should I email a froobs wife an unhinged manifesto like you did? :D should I post porn on the site like you did? Should I beg to be banned and then beg to come back like you did?

Im not sure I want to be entertaining like you. Seems fucking uncorked.
Sodomy isn’t in the same universe as guns, antiquated laws or not.

Have a terrible weekend you pointless, hair-splitting, boring, bigoted, moronic asshole.

:)
Except it is in the same universe because rights are being violated in both cases.

The problem is that in just about every statute on the books "rights" are being violated. But, that is not the basis for laws and the reason why libertarians are absurd. What you are ignoring is the rights of everyone else.


For example: you have the right to play your music as loud as you want. But I also have the simultaneous right to wanting peace and quiet in my vicinity. Noise ordinances are the way to resolve the conflic between rights.


WHile the courts have ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right and has been incorporated, they have also ruled that gun laws have only "medium" scrutiny. This is because of the significant public safety nature of gun laws. Therefore, the courts have given a lot of lee way to laws like waiting periods that do not infringe on the right to bear arms.

Lastly, the anti-gun people have always presented a flawed argument about the 2nd Amendment by claiming that the militia clause limited gun ownership to entitites like the national guard. But this is an absurd reading of the amendment. The militia clause is a justification for individual ownership of weapons since in late 18th century America every male was considered part of the militia and was respobsible for providing their own arms.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by thinktank »

zeitgeist wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:34 pm
thinktank wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:23 am You Libertarians live in fantasy land.

Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum
:lol:

THANK YOU.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

We're jerking off to Young Turks, progressive, insult-filled, straw man, opinion pieces now? Yay!

Again, no substance, no value, just celebrating someone else's edited youtube video.

In Wolves Chat of all places... :roll:
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

mlhouse wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:19 am
SO_MONEY wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:36 pm
thinktank wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm

Sodomy isn’t in the same universe as guns, antiquated laws or not.

Have a terrible weekend you pointless, hair-splitting, boring, bigoted, moronic asshole.

:)
Except it is in the same universe because rights are being violated in both cases.

The problem is that in just about every statute on the books "rights" are being violated. But, that is not the basis for laws and the reason why libertarians are absurd. What you are ignoring is the rights of everyone else.


For example: you have the right to play your music as loud as you want. But I also have the simultaneous right to wanting peace and quiet in my vicinity. Noise ordinances are the way to resolve the conflic between rights.


WHile the courts have ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right and has been incorporated, they have also ruled that gun laws have only "medium" scrutiny. This is because of the significant public safety nature of gun laws. Therefore, the courts have given a lot of lee way to laws like waiting periods that do not infringe on the right to bear arms.

Lastly, the anti-gun people have always presented a flawed argument about the 2nd Amendment by claiming that the militia clause limited gun ownership to entitites like the national guard. But this is an absurd reading of the amendment. The militia clause is a justification for individual ownership of weapons since in late 18th century America every male was considered part of the militia and was respobsible for providing their own arms.
Your rights extend to your nose, meaning you can play your music as loud as you can until it enters the space of another and you are affecting the rights of others. This isn't complicated. Additionally, noise ordinances are not crimes, no one is going to jail for playing loud music. Ordinances such as thoes are a way to peacefully resolve disputes by a unbiased party (police) to if a noise complaint has merit where rights are being violated.

That said it is questionable if people even have the right to peace and quiet. It is not going to be unilaterally agreed to in all cases anyways. Hence there are hours of the day in many of these ordinances that permit loud noise, for things like construction.

Additionally I made it clear I am not going to refer to the SCOTUS as a determination of right or wrong. Waiting periods do infringe on the right to bear arms. Anything that prevents ownership on demand is an infringement by definition as it limits the right and places conditions on it regardless if it is good or bad for society on the whole.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by thinktank »

Spoiler:
WELL
Spoiler:
REGULATED
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

thinktank wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:37 am
Spoiler:
WELL
Spoiler:
REGULATED
:lol:
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by mlhouse »

thinktank wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:37 am
Spoiler:
WELL
Spoiler:
REGULATED
I. G. N. O. R. A. N. T.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by mlhouse »

SO_MONEY wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:51 am
mlhouse wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:19 am
SO_MONEY wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:36 pm

Except it is in the same universe because rights are being violated in both cases.

The problem is that in just about every statute on the books "rights" are being violated. But, that is not the basis for laws and the reason why libertarians are absurd. What you are ignoring is the rights of everyone else.


For example: you have the right to play your music as loud as you want. But I also have the simultaneous right to wanting peace and quiet in my vicinity. Noise ordinances are the way to resolve the conflic between rights.


WHile the courts have ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right and has been incorporated, they have also ruled that gun laws have only "medium" scrutiny. This is because of the significant public safety nature of gun laws. Therefore, the courts have given a lot of lee way to laws like waiting periods that do not infringe on the right to bear arms.

Lastly, the anti-gun people have always presented a flawed argument about the 2nd Amendment by claiming that the militia clause limited gun ownership to entitites like the national guard. But this is an absurd reading of the amendment. The militia clause is a justification for individual ownership of weapons since in late 18th century America every male was considered part of the militia and was respobsible for providing their own arms.
Your rights extend to your nose, meaning you can play your music as loud as you can until it enters the space of another and you are affecting the rights of others. This isn't complicated. Additionally, noise ordinances are not crimes, no one is going to jail for playing loud music. Ordinances such as thoes are a way to peacefully resolve disputes by a unbiased party (police) to if a noise complaint has merit where rights are being violated.

That said it is questionable if people even have the right to peace and quiet. It is not going to be unilaterally agreed to in all cases anyways. Hence there are hours of the day in many of these ordinances that permit loud noise, for things like construction.

Additionally I made it clear I am not going to refer to the SCOTUS as a determination of right or wrong. Waiting periods do infringe on the right to bear arms. Anything that prevents ownership on demand is an infringement by definition as it limits the right and places conditions on it regardless if it is good or bad for society on the whole.
Yes, they do have such rights. Peace and quiet. Association. Speech. Liberty. Pursuit of happiness. All natural rights.

Waiting periods do not infringe upon the right to bear arms. Again, the Courts have looked upon gun regulation with just "medium" scrutiny which is the correct course of action given the public safety issues. Believe it or not, even "constitutional rights" sometimes conflict with other constitutional rights and the proper balancing of these rights must be done. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. IT all depends upon which end of the stick we are getting.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by zeitgeist »

j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:26 am We're jerking off to Young Turks, progressive, insult-filled, straw man, opinion pieces now? Yay!

Again, no substance, no value, just celebrating someone else's edited youtube video.

In Wolves Chat of all places... :roll:
You guys wanted to bring politics into Wolves Chat! That was just one of the first libertarian cringe videos I could find from that libertarian debate, it fits.

Some of you are shilling for your meme libertarian politics, nothing wrong with a little progressivism to inject a dose of sanity into the discussion.
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

zeitgeist wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:46 pm
j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:26 am We're jerking off to Young Turks, progressive, insult-filled, straw man, opinion pieces now? Yay!

Again, no substance, no value, just celebrating someone else's edited youtube video.

In Wolves Chat of all places... :roll:
You guys wanted to bring politics into Wolves Chat! That was just one of the first libertarian cringe videos I could find from that libertarian debate, it fits.

Some of you are shilling for your meme libertarian politics, nothing wrong with a little progressivism to inject a dose of sanity into the discussion.
Who wanted what? Might want to back up and read a little before spazzing out. Deep breath, champ.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by YBBR »

I never needed a gun to feel safe and I think they can do more harm than good in most situations. Plus the thought of shooting someone is pretty rough.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

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YBBR wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:28 pm I never needed a gun to feel safe and I think they can do more harm than good in most situations. Plus the thought of shooting someone is pretty rough.
I dont disagree with this at all. I own two, both were passed down when my grandpa died, they're locked up without bullets and hidden.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

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j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:34 pm
YBBR wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:28 pm I never needed a gun to feel safe and I think they can do more harm than good in most situations. Plus the thought of shooting someone is pretty rough.
I dont disagree with this at all. I own two, both were passed down when my grandpa died, they're locked up without bullets and hidden.
My brother and I had .22's growing up and we used to shoot shit in the woods up north. We used to clean em with my dad. He had a few different rifles. That's kind of the extent of my gun handling experience.

He taught us gun safety first though. So for being dumb kids we were actually pretty responsible with the weapons.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by j2j »

YBBR wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:37 pm
j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:34 pm
YBBR wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:28 pm I never needed a gun to feel safe and I think they can do more harm than good in most situations. Plus the thought of shooting someone is pretty rough.
I dont disagree with this at all. I own two, both were passed down when my grandpa died, they're locked up without bullets and hidden.
My brother and I had .22's growing up and we used to shoot shit in the woods up north. We used to clean em with my dad. He had a few different rifles. That's kind of the extent of my gun handling experience.

He taught us gun safety first though. So for being dumb kids we were actually pretty responsible with the weapons.
I spent most of my childhood hunting and fishing with my grandpa. Learned from him. I still fish a lot, but hunting and shooting no longer interests me.
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YBBR
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by YBBR »

j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm
YBBR wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:37 pm
j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:34 pm

I dont disagree with this at all. I own two, both were passed down when my grandpa died, they're locked up without bullets and hidden.
My brother and I had .22's growing up and we used to shoot shit in the woods up north. We used to clean em with my dad. He had a few different rifles. That's kind of the extent of my gun handling experience.

He taught us gun safety first though. So for being dumb kids we were actually pretty responsible with the weapons.
I spent most of my childhood hunting and fishing with my grandpa. Learned from him. I still fish a lot, but hunting and shooting no longer interests me.
My dad was a big outdoors guy too. Fishing I always found subjectively cooler as well.
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SO_MONEY
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by SO_MONEY »

mlhouse wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:30 pm
SO_MONEY wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:51 am
mlhouse wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:19 am


The problem is that in just about every statute on the books "rights" are being violated. But, that is not the basis for laws and the reason why libertarians are absurd. What you are ignoring is the rights of everyone else.


For example: you have the right to play your music as loud as you want. But I also have the simultaneous right to wanting peace and quiet in my vicinity. Noise ordinances are the way to resolve the conflic between rights.


WHile the courts have ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right and has been incorporated, they have also ruled that gun laws have only "medium" scrutiny. This is because of the significant public safety nature of gun laws. Therefore, the courts have given a lot of lee way to laws like waiting periods that do not infringe on the right to bear arms.

Lastly, the anti-gun people have always presented a flawed argument about the 2nd Amendment by claiming that the militia clause limited gun ownership to entitites like the national guard. But this is an absurd reading of the amendment. The militia clause is a justification for individual ownership of weapons since in late 18th century America every male was considered part of the militia and was respobsible for providing their own arms.
Your rights extend to your nose, meaning you can play your music as loud as you can until it enters the space of another and you are affecting the rights of others. This isn't complicated. Additionally, noise ordinances are not crimes, no one is going to jail for playing loud music. Ordinances such as thoes are a way to peacefully resolve disputes by a unbiased party (police) to if a noise complaint has merit where rights are being violated.

That said it is questionable if people even have the right to peace and quiet. It is not going to be unilaterally agreed to in all cases anyways. Hence there are hours of the day in many of these ordinances that permit loud noise, for things like construction.

Additionally I made it clear I am not going to refer to the SCOTUS as a determination of right or wrong. Waiting periods do infringe on the right to bear arms. Anything that prevents ownership on demand is an infringement by definition as it limits the right and places conditions on it regardless if it is good or bad for society on the whole.
Yes, they do have such rights. Peace and quiet. Association. Speech. Liberty. Pursuit of happiness. All natural rights.

Waiting periods do not infringe upon the right to bear arms. Again, the Courts have looked upon gun regulation with just "medium" scrutiny which is the correct course of action given the public safety issues. Believe it or not, even "constitutional rights" sometimes conflict with other constitutional rights and the proper balancing of these rights must be done. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. IT all depends upon which end of the stick we are getting.
I am not going to get into the natural rights debate, mainly as it is not something you can provide proof of. It is an opinion often one we glean from years of living together. Potential rights like privacy.

But I will mention association and speech are rights insofar as how the government may act against them as it pertains to the Constitution, not full natural rights as you make them to be. When you compare that to a right left to the people and people alone in the second amendment a right left outside government reach there is a difference. The right is left to the people not the government, it is under scrutiny that permits no infringement. I don't care what they use to try and justify otherwise.

And your rights extend to your nose, that is how conflicts of rights are resolved, there is always a origin to where rights begin and who is violating who's rights.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair sentenced to 3.5 years in prison

Post by zeitgeist »

NotRasho wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:23 pm
zeitgeist wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:46 pm
j2j wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:26 am We're jerking off to Young Turks, progressive, insult-filled, straw man, opinion pieces now? Yay!

Again, no substance, no value, just celebrating someone else's edited youtube video.

In Wolves Chat of all places... :roll:
You guys wanted to bring politics into Wolves Chat! That was just one of the first libertarian cringe videos I could find from that libertarian debate, it fits.

Some of you are shilling for your meme libertarian politics, nothing wrong with a little progressivism to inject a dose of sanity into the discussion.
You didn't inject anything other than somebody else's opinion which isn't even on topic. Thanks for your "contribution", brainlet.
You're not doing yourself any favors insulting my intelligence, considering I run circles around you in most any basketball conversation we've had.

My condolences to you on 8chan being shut down btw, Abe must have had pity on you seeking asylum here.
mlhouse wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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