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Pay attention to the Thunder
- Philo Beddoe
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Pay attention to the Thunder
That is going to be us in 3 years. That is going to be the thing for small market teams... trade their superstars and rebuild with a shit ton of draft picks.
Reigning Rube Chat Bracket Champion
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- Posts: 25363
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
I can't tell if this is meant to be good or bad, though.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
- Philo Beddoe
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- Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:11 pm
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
You just have to hope your scouting department is as good as the Thunders. They have been pretty good drafting players over the years.
Reigning Rube Chat Bracket Champion
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
if no fundamental and meaningful change to the rules, it won't matter.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
They will suck because they are young. Their players will have a staggered league tenure which will require they sign young players based on hope they continue to improve....recruitment will begin by large market teams and players will relocate becuase the league is interested in saying super teams are bad....but counting their money all the while.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
They will suck because they are young. Their players will have a staggered league tenure which will require they sign young players based on hope they continue to improve....recruitment will begin by large market teams and players will relocate becuase the league is interested in saying super teams are bad....but counting their money all the while.
- Sid Hartman
- Posts: 6366
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:29 pm
- Location: Heaven
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
Except we only have 1 superstar tradePhilo Beddoe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:36 am That is going to be us in 3 years. That is going to be the thing for small market teams... trade their superstars and rebuild with a shit ton of draft picks.
Zimmer1: seriously you were the sperm that won?
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- KFAN Rube Chat Hall of Fame Member
- Posts: 15866
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:38 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
And OKC was able to raid the Clippers because they got PG AND Kawhi.Sid Hartman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:49 amExcept we only have 1 superstar tradePhilo Beddoe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:36 am That is going to be us in 3 years. That is going to be the thing for small market teams... trade their superstars and rebuild with a shit ton of draft picks.
I'm sure you could clean house with the Celtics in terms of picks right now for Towns... and make them take on Wiggins for Hayward?
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
3 years? With rosass in charge it will be by December
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
ehh, they've been okay. obviously Durant, Russ, Ibaka and Harden is an all time run, but they didn't really find any significant player afterwards to help extend their run and get them over the hump, like Kawhi helped extend San Antonio.Philo Beddoe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:47 amYou just have to hope your scouting department is as good as the Thunders. They have been pretty good drafting players over the years.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:54 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
That's everyone though once you start winning. Even the Spurs went through several years of next to no production. Golden State over the last several years, etc.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:13 pmehh, they've been okay. obviously Durant, Russ and Harden is an all time run, but they didn't really find any significant player afterwards to help extend their run and get them over the hump, like Kawhi helped extend San Antonio.Philo Beddoe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:47 amYou just have to hope your scouting department is as good as the Thunders. They have been pretty good drafting players over the years.
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
you can still find significant pieces outside the lottery though was my point, and I think OKC has been rather pedestrian at it.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:16 pmThat's everyone though once you start winning. Even the Spurs went through several years of next to no production. Golden State over the last several years, etc.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:13 pmehh, they've been okay. obviously Durant, Russ and Harden is an all time run, but they didn't really find any significant player afterwards to help extend their run and get them over the hump, like Kawhi helped extend San Antonio.Philo Beddoe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:47 am
You just have to hope your scouting department is as good as the Thunders. They have been pretty good drafting players over the years.
Perry Jones, Steven Adams, Archie Goodwin, Mitch McGary, Josh Huestis, Dakari Johnson, Andre Roberson, Terrance Ferguson.
In 2015, they even had Pick 14 and took Cam Payne over Terry Rozier. Devin Booker went one pick ahead of Payne as well, so missed golden opportunity to trade up for him.
that's pretty bad.Adams and Roberson have been solid rotation players, but didn't do much to actually move the needle and get them over the top.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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- Posts: 26739
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:43 am
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
Bullshiiiiiit.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 am 3 years? With rosass in charge it will be by December
This is a building year.
Keep skirt on, please.
- Moses Scurry
- Posts: 16512
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:48 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
No sarcasm detector today?thinktank wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:26 pmBullshiiiiiit.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 am 3 years? With rosass in charge it will be by December
This is a building year.
Keep skirt on, please.
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:25 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
Let me see if I have the Class System of Basketball worked out.......
We got AAU, then the NCAA, then the G League, then Europe, and then there’s the persistently rebuilding pee-on NBA-lite teams (our Wolves for example), then oh maybe 3-5 of those pee-ons where a given rebuild is working (to a degree) for a finite period of time (looking at you Milwaukee)......and then finally we have the NBA as recognized in the owners’ suites......everything that exists below feeds here and this is where the real money is spent and earned and the only place where the championship hardware is won and lost. Is that sounding about right?
We got AAU, then the NCAA, then the G League, then Europe, and then there’s the persistently rebuilding pee-on NBA-lite teams (our Wolves for example), then oh maybe 3-5 of those pee-ons where a given rebuild is working (to a degree) for a finite period of time (looking at you Milwaukee)......and then finally we have the NBA as recognized in the owners’ suites......everything that exists below feeds here and this is where the real money is spent and earned and the only place where the championship hardware is won and lost. Is that sounding about right?
“I am that guy.” - Amos Burton
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- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:54 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
But again, the best player the Warriors picked in their run was Kevon Looney.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:25 pmyou can still find significant pieces outside the lottery though was my point, and I think OKC has been rather pedestrian at it.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:16 pmThat's everyone though once you start winning. Even the Spurs went through several years of next to no production. Golden State over the last several years, etc.
Perry Jones, Steven Adams, Archie Goodwin, Mitch McGary, Josh Huestis, Dakari Johnson, Andre Roberson, Terrance Ferguson.
In 2015, they even had Pick 14 and took Cam Payne over Terry Rozier. Devin Booker went one pick ahead of Payne as well, so missed golden opportunity to trade up for him.
that's pretty bad.Adams and Roberson have been solid rotation players, but didn't do much to actually move the needle and get them over the top.
The Spurs are an outlier.
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- Posts: 25363
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
the original point I was responding to way back though was that (paraphrasing) OKC mgmt has been better at drafting of recent and could be better positioned than average to convert this bundle of picks to really productive players, and I was disagreeing with that. outside of top 5 picks, their track record is pretty bad, so unless a good number of these picks end up in the Top 5, I don't think they're any better positioned than any other team.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pmBut again, the best player the Warriors picked in their run was Kevon Looney.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:25 pmyou can still find significant pieces outside the lottery though was my point, and I think OKC has been rather pedestrian at it.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:16 pm
That's everyone though once you start winning. Even the Spurs went through several years of next to no production. Golden State over the last several years, etc.
Perry Jones, Steven Adams, Archie Goodwin, Mitch McGary, Josh Huestis, Dakari Johnson, Andre Roberson, Terrance Ferguson.
In 2015, they even had Pick 14 and took Cam Payne over Terry Rozier. Devin Booker went one pick ahead of Payne as well, so missed golden opportunity to trade up for him.
that's pretty bad.Adams and Roberson have been solid rotation players, but didn't do much to actually move the needle and get them over the top.
The Spurs are an outlier.
GS did get Draymond in the 2nd rd, and they previously had Monta Ellis from the 2nd rd that they were able to convert to Andrew Bogut. plus Curry at 7 and Klay at 11 are all time great calls outside the Top 5.
SAS got Kawhi at 15, but also developed Danny Green, Patty Mills, George Hill, Gary Neal plus way more that I can't remember..in addition to obviously Parker and Manu.
Milw got Giannis at 15, but also great job on Middleton and Brogdon in the 2nd.
Tor had Siakam in the late first and Van Vleet undrafted
Yeah it gets harder to draft the further you get down in the order, but plenty of teams have a better track record than OKC. That's all I'm saying.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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- Posts: 1954
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
not sure i would classify Steven Adams as a miss....or, if he is, I would take a miss like at every year.
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- ***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
Except the Wolves will get bent over. They never win at trades.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
- Vendetta11
- Posts: 449
- Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:43 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
If only the Wolves had the last 8 years the Thunder had... You know, something to actually cheer about...
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- Posts: 25363
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
I didn't mean to imply miss, he's been a fine player and has obviously outperformed his draft position, but doesn't move the needle enough IMO to offset the other big misses they've had.
Don't forget Giannis went 3 picks after, and again Payne was sandwiched between Booker and Rozier.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:00 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
That is a good point. ANother point is, however, you need good lottery luck and you also need the luck of another team making a mistake.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 pmthe original point I was responding to way back though was that (paraphrasing) OKC mgmt has been better at drafting of recent and could be better positioned than average to convert this bundle of picks to really productive players, and I was disagreeing with that. outside of top 5 picks, their track record is pretty bad, so unless a good number of these picks end up in the Top 5, I don't think they're any better positioned than any other team.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pmBut again, the best player the Warriors picked in their run was Kevon Looney.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:25 pm
you can still find significant pieces outside the lottery though was my point, and I think OKC has been rather pedestrian at it.
Perry Jones, Steven Adams, Archie Goodwin, Mitch McGary, Josh Huestis, Dakari Johnson, Andre Roberson, Terrance Ferguson.
In 2015, they even had Pick 14 and took Cam Payne over Terry Rozier. Devin Booker went one pick ahead of Payne as well, so missed golden opportunity to trade up for him.
that's pretty bad.Adams and Roberson have been solid rotation players, but didn't do much to actually move the needle and get them over the top.
The Spurs are an outlier.
GS did get Draymond in the 2nd rd, and they previously had Monta Ellis from the 2nd rd that they were able to convert to Andrew Bogut. plus Curry at 7 and Klay at 11 are all time great calls outside the Top 5.
SAS got Kawhi at 15, but also developed Danny Green, Patty Mills, George Hill, Gary Neal plus way more that I can't remember..in addition to obviously Parker and Manu.
Milw got Giannis at 15, but also great job on Middleton and Brogdon in the 2nd.
Tor had Siakam in the late first and Van Vleet undrafted
Yeah it gets harder to draft the further you get down in the order, but plenty of teams have a better track record than OKC. That's all I'm saying.
While Greg Oden was a good prospect, I thought Durant was much better and Seattle benefited from Oden being selected by Portland #1. Then in 2009, they picked Westbrook #4 after MN/Memphis picked OJ Mayo. However, that pick was a small surprise. Then in 2010 Memphis picked Thabeet at #2 leaving James Harden for the Thunder at #3.
Oden-Mayo-Tykreke Evans isn't as good of a team, is it?
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
I did say they had an all time run with their Top 5 picks of Durant, Harden and Russ. That's 100% earned on their end.Vendetta11 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:53 pm If only the Wolves had the last 8 years the Thunder had... You know, something to actually cheer about...
However the fact that they weren't able to convert that to a finals appearance is something worth criticizing, and that it's not necessarily a given that they'll be able to replicate this success going forward with this new haul.
That's all I was saying.
As a Wolves fan though I of course would gladly trade their run for ours. Way better than top picks on Derrick Williams, Wes Johnson, Johnny Flynn, etc.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
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- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:54 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
But again, the reason their drafting suffered is because of the success they had leading to worse draft positioning. They drafted Reggie Jackson and Ibaka at 24.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 pmthe original point I was responding to way back though was that (paraphrasing) OKC mgmt has been better at drafting of recent and could be better positioned than average to convert this bundle of picks to really productive players, and I was disagreeing with that. outside of top 5 picks, their track record is pretty bad, so unless a good number of these picks end up in the Top 5, I don't think they're any better positioned than any other team.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pmBut again, the best player the Warriors picked in their run was Kevon Looney.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:25 pm
you can still find significant pieces outside the lottery though was my point, and I think OKC has been rather pedestrian at it.
Perry Jones, Steven Adams, Archie Goodwin, Mitch McGary, Josh Huestis, Dakari Johnson, Andre Roberson, Terrance Ferguson.
In 2015, they even had Pick 14 and took Cam Payne over Terry Rozier. Devin Booker went one pick ahead of Payne as well, so missed golden opportunity to trade up for him.
that's pretty bad.Adams and Roberson have been solid rotation players, but didn't do much to actually move the needle and get them over the top.
The Spurs are an outlier.
GS did get Draymond in the 2nd rd, and they previously had Monta Ellis from the 2nd rd that they were able to convert to Andrew Bogut. plus Curry at 7 and Klay at 11 are all time great calls outside the Top 5.
SAS got Kawhi at 15, but also developed Danny Green, Patty Mills, George Hill, Gary Neal plus way more that I can't remember..in addition to obviously Parker and Manu.
Milw got Giannis at 15, but also great job on Middleton and Brogdon in the 2nd.
Tor had Siakam in the late first and Van Vleet undrafted
Yeah it gets harder to draft the further you get down in the order, but plenty of teams have a better track record than OKC. That's all I'm saying.
My point is that almost no team draft well in those late picks to help a contending window extended. Not the Warriors, not the Lakers, Heat, Bulls, etc.
I'll agree in a sense that Presti is better at maximizing assets than drafting (outside of the Harden trade of course).
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Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
Well there are so many Rosas Crybabies you just never know...Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:29 pmNo sarcasm detector today?Asshole wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:26 pmBullshiiiiiit.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 am 3 years? With rosass in charge it will be by December
This is a building year.
Keep skirt on, please.
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- Posts: 25363
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:48 pm
Re: Pay attention to the Thunder
I'll agree and disagree at the same time.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:59 pmBut again, the reason their drafting suffered is because of the success they had leading to worse draft positioning. They drafted Reggie Jackson and Ibaka at 24.Oriole81 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 pmthe original point I was responding to way back though was that (paraphrasing) OKC mgmt has been better at drafting of recent and could be better positioned than average to convert this bundle of picks to really productive players, and I was disagreeing with that. outside of top 5 picks, their track record is pretty bad, so unless a good number of these picks end up in the Top 5, I don't think they're any better positioned than any other team.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pm
But again, the best player the Warriors picked in their run was Kevon Looney.
The Spurs are an outlier.
GS did get Draymond in the 2nd rd, and they previously had Monta Ellis from the 2nd rd that they were able to convert to Andrew Bogut. plus Curry at 7 and Klay at 11 are all time great calls outside the Top 5.
SAS got Kawhi at 15, but also developed Danny Green, Patty Mills, George Hill, Gary Neal plus way more that I can't remember..in addition to obviously Parker and Manu.
Milw got Giannis at 15, but also great job on Middleton and Brogdon in the 2nd.
Tor had Siakam in the late first and Van Vleet undrafted
Yeah it gets harder to draft the further you get down in the order, but plenty of teams have a better track record than OKC. That's all I'm saying.
My point is that almost no team draft well in those late picks to help a contending window extended. Not the Warriors, not the Lakers, Heat, Bulls, etc.
I'll agree in a sense that Presti is better at maximizing assets than drafting (outside of the Harden trade of course).
And an aside, I just think the Heat and Warriors got comfortable with the idea that vets would come there on sub market deals that they didn't have to worry about the draft anymore, which is too bad.
2020 All Time NBA Draft
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis
A Iverson, K Irving
J Havlicek, M Ginobili, M Richmond
D Wilkins, B Bowen
T Duncan, B McAdoo
H Olajuwon, W Unseld, A Sabonis