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Free Agent Power Forwards

A place to discuss the MN Timberwolves
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

Moses Scurry wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:56 am
somuchyummy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:53 am as has been said by others, can he play it? yeah, maybe. but it takes him away from his true position, the one he was selected ALL-NBA defensive team for playing - and puts him in a spot that's much more of a question mark. seems like it would make more sense to just play him at the spot he's excellent at.
Yep, hard to say. I'm just pointing out it isn't ridiculous due to his size.
these days it's not ridiculous due to size. hell, i was lobbying hard for clarke to be our pick and he's smaller than cov. but clarke's a special talent both in the paint and on the perimeter - i think cov's greatest advantage comes on the perimeter.
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Thrillkill
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Thrillkill »

somuchyummy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:50 am
Moses Scurry wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:56 am
somuchyummy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:53 am as has been said by others, can he play it? yeah, maybe. but it takes him away from his true position, the one he was selected ALL-NBA defensive team for playing - and puts him in a spot that's much more of a question mark. seems like it would make more sense to just play him at the spot he's excellent at.
Yep, hard to say. I'm just pointing out it isn't ridiculous due to his size.
these days it's not ridiculous due to size. hell, i was lobbying hard for clarke to be our pick and he's smaller than cov. but clarke's a special talent both in the paint and on the perimeter - i think cov's greatest advantage comes on the perimeter.
And that's why it's a bad idea. Yeah he can play some minutes there but when is it a god adea to weaken a player making him play out of position. We have a great 3. The kind of top notch 3 and D player every team is dying for. And we're gonna play him at the 4? It's foolish.

As to who we can add it's WCS for MLE and that's it for who I'd actually pay and give years to.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

i'd do that too.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Thrillkill »

somuchyummy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:47 pm i'd do that too.
Don't know the rules. Can we trade for him and still use the MLE to fit him or would we need to match salary? Because if we have to match a QO would pretty much knock us out of the running.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

who could we trade for him? we dealt saric - we didn't resign the bevy of old vets we had last season that could maybe make trades possible now. tyus is the only guy i can think of, but i think his QO is 3.5. and the kings already have fox, burk, ferrell, mason and rookie kyle guy. how does ty move the needle on that?
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Thrillkill »

somuchyummy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:13 pm who could we trade for him? we dealt saric - we didn't resign the bevy of old vets we had last season that could maybe make trades possible now. tyus is the only guy i can think of, but i think his QO is 3.5. and the kings already have fox, burk, ferrell, mason and rookie kyle guy. how does ty move the needle on that?
We could trade a much bigger number for him because the Kings have so much space but I doubt they take Gorgs straight up. They are still a possibility for Wigs though if they don't re-sign Barnes.
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TrueBlue
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by TrueBlue »

somuchyummy wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:40 pm i'm actually on the other end of things. my favorite guys off this list are jamychal green, jonathan motley, cheick diallo and chris singleton.

off the centers list, javale mcgee, richaun holmes, jordan bell, justin patton, kyle o'quinn, alan williams and khem birch.

any of these guys are affordable except maybe jamychal green.
Also - all of these guys are awful and should not be starting in the NBA.
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Thrillkill
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Thrillkill »

TrueBlue wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:20 pm
somuchyummy wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:40 pm i'm actually on the other end of things. my favorite guys off this list are jamychal green, jonathan motley, cheick diallo and chris singleton.

off the centers list, javale mcgee, richaun holmes, jordan bell, justin patton, kyle o'quinn, alan williams and khem birch.

any of these guys are affordable except maybe jamychal green.
Also - all of these guys are awful and should not be starting in the NBA.
You can start one guy even on great teams that are 16-18 minutes of banging, setting hard picks, defending and rebounding. They don't have to be "good" just super annoying.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

and all of these guys are not "awful". some are better than others, but they definitely can play a role - and won't cost some outrageous amount doing it either.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

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I think I like the Center crop better and there are guys in there that can play some 4 and be just fine.

Like Richaun Holmes!
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by YBBR »

I feel like you will see a lot more Dieng at the 4 this year as well. He shot pretty decent from the corners for 3 last year. He was really good to end the year, and it was fun to see him return to form from a few years ago when people were picking him to be on the short list for most improved player.
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Thrillkill
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Thrillkill »

somuchyummy wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:47 pm and all of these guys are not "awful". some are better than others, but they definitely can play a role - and won't cost some outrageous amount doing it either.
You don't have to explain that to anyone who knows. Great teams for 50 years had a nasty banger who eats some minutes and fucks with the other teams stars. As long as they are not stone hands fumblers or bumbling foul machines they are valuable. McHale was a hall of famer. They have 2 titles where he was on the bench and Corn Bread Maxwell started. McHale was a legit bad ass then but the 18-22 minutes Maxwell gave were mean and they left a mark.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by HeHateMe »

YBBR wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:58 pm I feel like you will see a lot more Dieng at the 4 this year as well. He shot pretty decent from the corners for 3 last year. He was really good to end the year, and it was fun to see him return to form from a few years ago when people were picking him to be on the short list for most improved player.
Jonny K and Britt Robson think this is definitely going to happen. Just listened to the "Athletic Hour" podcast from KFAN and they think Gorgui will play with Towns plenty.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by HeHateMe »

somuchyummy wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:35 pm here's the sister thread to the one about free agent centers. as before, i left out guys we simply can't afford.

UFA Power Forwards
Tobias Harris - 6-8 - $14.8M (probably can't afford, career is on the rise)
Thad Young - 6-8 - $14M (no idea of his free agency value)
Taj Gibson - 6-9 - $14M (probably will sign a smaller deal)
Kenneth Faried - 6-8 - $14M (?)
Nikola Mrotic - 6-10 - $12.5M (?)
Markieff Morris - 6-10 - $9.2M
JaMychal Green - 6-9 - $8M
Al-Farouq Aminu - 6-9 - $7M
Marcus Morris - 6-9 - $5.3M
Mike Scott - 6-8 - $4.3M
Jeff Green - 6-9 - $2.4M
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson - 6-7 - $2.4M
Jonas Jerebko - 6-10 - $2.2M
Johnathan Motley - 6-9 - $77,250

RFA Power Forwards
Cheick Diallo - 6-9 - $1.5M
Johnathan Williams - 6-9 - $127,250

Other Options not currently under contract
Chris Singleton - 6-9
Tyler Cook - 6-9
Kenny Wooten - 6-8
Donta Hall - 6-9
Mike Daum - 6-9
Norvel Pelle - 6-11
Wish the Wolves would have gotten Christian Wood last year. There's a lot of stretch 4s in there though so I wouldn't be opposed to getting one depending on the price.
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SHAFA
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by SHAFA »

HeHateMe wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:38 am
YBBR wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:58 pm I feel like you will see a lot more Dieng at the 4 this year as well. He shot pretty decent from the corners for 3 last year. He was really good to end the year, and it was fun to see him return to form from a few years ago when people were picking him to be on the short list for most improved player.
Jonny K and Britt Robson think this is definitely going to happen. Just listened to the "Athletic Hour" podcast from KFAN and they think Gorgui will play with Towns plenty.
Good. Maybe it’ll finally give those looking to dump his contract a rest.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by mlhouse »

SHAFA wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:44 am
HeHateMe wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:38 am
YBBR wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:58 pm I feel like you will see a lot more Dieng at the 4 this year as well. He shot pretty decent from the corners for 3 last year. He was really good to end the year, and it was fun to see him return to form from a few years ago when people were picking him to be on the short list for most improved player.
Jonny K and Britt Robson think this is definitely going to happen. Just listened to the "Athletic Hour" podcast from KFAN and they think Gorgui will play with Towns plenty.
Good. Maybe it’ll finally give those looking to dump his contract a rest.
If Dieng is the starting 4 next season that is a huge step back from Dario Saric. WHile I don't care about records for next season, the team should be looking ahead. Gorgui Dieng is not looking ahead.

While I get all the nostalgia for Cedric Maxwell and such, his last NBA game was more than 30 years ago. The game has evolved. To win in the NBA you need to have proper floor spacing on offense. WIthout spacing, as we have seen with the Wolves for several years now, help defenders can come at their leisure. They want Dieng/Gibson to be left open for a long two and will gladly cut down the lanes available for Towns or Wiggins. For years we didn't even have a PG that could (or would) shoot, meaning there were two extra defenders.

You can get away with one player that cannot shoot from the perimeter if you have three other shooters. This guy can operate like Capela does in Houston, setting the screens for Harden and rolling to the basket. The Rockets have 3 players on the perimeter that you cannot leave open for wide open 3s. So, Harden has all kinds of room to operate. WHile I am using hte Rockets as the example, this is the formula for almost every good NBA team.

The Wolves have the advantage that htey could create a pick and roll game with Wiggins and Towns with Towns' versatility as an outside shooter who cannot be left unguarded on the pop like Capela can. But if they do not have a 3rd shooter on the perimter and instead have a non-shooter like Dieng or Gibson out there, then there is always a help defender near the rim that the James Hardens do not have to confront.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Philo Beddoe »

I don't think Taj is getting big money from a contender, not considering how teams want your PF to shoot 3's nowadays. He could be back I think.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Southpaw23 »

Hollis Jefferson for me...

Imagine a Okogie Culver Covington Jefferson rotation against a small ball 4
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

mlhouse wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:10 am
SHAFA wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:44 am
HeHateMe wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:38 am

Jonny K and Britt Robson think this is definitely going to happen. Just listened to the "Athletic Hour" podcast from KFAN and they think Gorgui will play with Towns plenty.
Good. Maybe it’ll finally give those looking to dump his contract a rest.
If Dieng is the starting 4 next season that is a huge step back from Dario Saric. WHile I don't care about records for next season, the team should be looking ahead. Gorgui Dieng is not looking ahead.

While I get all the nostalgia for Cedric Maxwell and such, his last NBA game was more than 30 years ago. The game has evolved. To win in the NBA you need to have proper floor spacing on offense. WIthout spacing, as we have seen with the Wolves for several years now, help defenders can come at their leisure. They want Dieng/Gibson to be left open for a long two and will gladly cut down the lanes available for Towns or Wiggins. For years we didn't even have a PG that could (or would) shoot, meaning there were two extra defenders.

You can get away with one player that cannot shoot from the perimeter if you have three other shooters. This guy can operate like Capela does in Houston, setting the screens for Harden and rolling to the basket. The Rockets have 3 players on the perimeter that you cannot leave open for wide open 3s. So, Harden has all kinds of room to operate. WHile I am using hte Rockets as the example, this is the formula for almost every good NBA team.

The Wolves have the advantage that htey could create a pick and roll game with Wiggins and Towns with Towns' versatility as an outside shooter who cannot be left unguarded on the pop like Capela can. But if they do not have a 3rd shooter on the perimter and instead have a non-shooter like Dieng or Gibson out there, then there is always a help defender near the rim that the James Hardens do not have to confront.
i think you're a little rigid in your thinking here. KAT is a really efficient and effective scoring machine - he can do it in multiple ways - and having dario saric or another upper 30s three pt shooter as your PF isn't going to really alter the fact that Karl just gets it done on O. after the butler trade, we had 22 games of KAT paired with SF robert covington before cov went down with an injury. covington is one of the better 3pt shooters on the team - 38% or something - a floor spacer. in those 22 games with roco, KAT averaged 21.7 ppg. after roco's injury, a great deal of his minutes went to josh okogie - right now a pretty awful 3pt shooter at 28% - or a full 10 pts down from what roco provides. in the 41 games without roco (and with josh) KAT's scoring average went up to 27.5 ppg. if KAT's paired with a three pt specialist, it's not some auto golden ticket to better KAT performances.

what we could use help on though is shoring up KAT's deficiencies on D - and some more help having another guy on the team besides KAT who'll go out and get a board when we need one. that can be done in free agency without much hoopla or cash.
Last edited by somuchyummy on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

HeHateMe wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:43 am
somuchyummy wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:35 pm here's the sister thread to the one about free agent centers. as before, i left out guys we simply can't afford.

UFA Power Forwards
Tobias Harris - 6-8 - $14.8M (probably can't afford, career is on the rise)
Thad Young - 6-8 - $14M (no idea of his free agency value)
Taj Gibson - 6-9 - $14M (probably will sign a smaller deal)
Kenneth Faried - 6-8 - $14M (?)
Nikola Mrotic - 6-10 - $12.5M (?)
Markieff Morris - 6-10 - $9.2M
JaMychal Green - 6-9 - $8M
Al-Farouq Aminu - 6-9 - $7M
Marcus Morris - 6-9 - $5.3M
Mike Scott - 6-8 - $4.3M
Jeff Green - 6-9 - $2.4M
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson - 6-7 - $2.4M
Jonas Jerebko - 6-10 - $2.2M
Johnathan Motley - 6-9 - $77,250

RFA Power Forwards
Cheick Diallo - 6-9 - $1.5M
Johnathan Williams - 6-9 - $127,250

Other Options not currently under contract
Chris Singleton - 6-9
Tyler Cook - 6-9
Kenny Wooten - 6-8
Donta Hall - 6-9
Mike Daum - 6-9
Norvel Pelle - 6-11
Wish the Wolves would have gotten Christian Wood last year. There's a lot of stretch 4s in there though so I wouldn't be opposed to getting one depending on the price.
wood would have been a good get. watch this guy, norvel pelle. i forgot about him when listing guys earlier. he had a great year in the gleague, was almost brought up by the sixers for the playoffs, but then they opted to go vet - and signed greg monroe instead. pelle only does a few things, rim running and blocked shots, but he does them well - and it'd be nice to add a fairly young uber athletic and long big like him. not sure of his contract status right now - but it couldn't take much to bring him over. looks like he's added some weight to his frame too - which he needed to do.


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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by larryhagmansliver »

Not a free agent but I wonder how attached the 76ers are to Jonah Bolden?
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Moses Scurry »

Look at all those powerful power forwards on that UFA list. Jeff Green, beast! Al-Faroq, humongous!!!!





And people saying Bob can't play PF.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by larryhagmansliver »

Richaun Holmes is an unrestricted PF that could be worth a look.
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somuchyummy
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by somuchyummy »

Moses Scurry wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:53 pm Look at all those powerful power forwards on that UFA list. Jeff Green, beast! Al-Faroq, humongous!!!!





And people saying Bob can't play PF.
a lot of guys on the PF list are tweeners. a lot of guys on the C list are both centers and power forwards.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by mlhouse »

somuchyummy wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:14 pm
mlhouse wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:10 am
SHAFA wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:44 am

Good. Maybe it’ll finally give those looking to dump his contract a rest.
If Dieng is the starting 4 next season that is a huge step back from Dario Saric. WHile I don't care about records for next season, the team should be looking ahead. Gorgui Dieng is not looking ahead.

While I get all the nostalgia for Cedric Maxwell and such, his last NBA game was more than 30 years ago. The game has evolved. To win in the NBA you need to have proper floor spacing on offense. WIthout spacing, as we have seen with the Wolves for several years now, help defenders can come at their leisure. They want Dieng/Gibson to be left open for a long two and will gladly cut down the lanes available for Towns or Wiggins. For years we didn't even have a PG that could (or would) shoot, meaning there were two extra defenders.

You can get away with one player that cannot shoot from the perimeter if you have three other shooters. This guy can operate like Capela does in Houston, setting the screens for Harden and rolling to the basket. The Rockets have 3 players on the perimeter that you cannot leave open for wide open 3s. So, Harden has all kinds of room to operate. WHile I am using hte Rockets as the example, this is the formula for almost every good NBA team.

The Wolves have the advantage that htey could create a pick and roll game with Wiggins and Towns with Towns' versatility as an outside shooter who cannot be left unguarded on the pop like Capela can. But if they do not have a 3rd shooter on the perimter and instead have a non-shooter like Dieng or Gibson out there, then there is always a help defender near the rim that the James Hardens do not have to confront.
i think you're a little rigid in your thinking here. KAT is a really efficient and effective scoring machine - he can do it in multiple ways - and having dario saric or another upper 30s three pt shooter as your PF isn't going to really alter the fact that Karl just gets it done on O. after the butler trade, we had 22 games of KAT paired with SF robert covington before cov went down with an injury. covington is one of the better 3pt shooters on the team - 38% or something - a floor spacer. in those 22 games with roco, KAT averaged 21.7 ppg. after roco's injury, a great deal of his minutes went to josh okogie - right now a pretty awful 3pt shooter at 28% - or a full 10 pts down from what roco provides. in the 41 games without roco (and with josh) KAT's scoring average went up to 27.5 ppg. if KAT's paired with a three pt specialist, it's not some auto golden ticket to better KAT performances.

what we could use help on though is shoring up KAT's deficiencies on D - and some more help having another guy on the team besides KAT who'll go out and get a board when we need one. that can be done in free agency without much hoopla or cash.
While defense is a great tie breaker, defense is overrated. If a guy cannot space the floor (and shoot) they are not very valuable in the NBA.

I think that you are missing something about the KAT pairing, Dario Saric started the last 28 games or so for the WOlves.

AS far as the "golden ticket", the real golden ticket exends past just the "PF" and to the fill complement on the floor.

A NBA offense needs 3 perimeter shooters on the floor at one time. Two to attach the corners and one from wing to wing. With the Wolves lineup you use movement to isolate Wiggins and create a 2 man game with Towns. If our shooters are good enough, the help defense cannot come for Towns or Wiggins, and you take advantage of the matchups. If you really have a well designed offense, the weakside players have a lot of movement to create their own mismatches and keep their defenders honest. Then the ball finds the open shot.

With a properly designed offense Wiggins and Towns could both be 30 point a night scorers.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Stork311 »

digitalwolf wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:14 am
Stork311 wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:15 pm Ugh...this is exactly my bitch.

We can’t move Wiggins. We can’t. We are in a terrible position and rosas is to blame. ^^^^^
Rosas is to blame for being unable to move a contract he never shelled out? :lol:
I'm glad I'm not starting a brand new job with you as my boss.....you want the guy to just make miracles happen in, what, a month tenure?
You maroon...

The context i was giving tied to the solution people seem to have that moving wiggins is next. Good fucking luck with that.
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by HeHateMe »

Is Loul Deng back if they move Wiggy?
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Stork311
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by Stork311 »

Sent likely back regardless...Rosas loves him some 3’s....
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by TrueBlue »

HeHateMe wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:32 pm Is Loul Deng back if they move Wiggy?
Love me some LOL_DONG
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Re: Free Agent Power Forwards

Post by SHAFA »

mlhouse wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:10 am While I get all the nostalgia for Cedric Maxwell and such, his last NBA game was more than 30 years ago.
The game has evolved.
Okay. I'm not sure where Cedric Maxwell came from, but okay.
To win in the NBA you need to have proper floor spacing on offense. WIthout spacing, as we have seen with the Wolves for several years now, help defenders can come at their leisure. They want Dieng/Gibson to be left open for a long two and will gladly cut down the lanes available for Towns or Wiggins.
I liked Saric more than most and was happy to see him get a shot at starting a full year here, but uh, his shooting left something to be desired. He was 45% from the field as a whole during his stint here, and his splits over the entire year from 16-feet out sat at 36%.

To compare, albeit a smaller sample size, Gorgui was around 42% from 16+ feet out; Saric was just shy of 36%. He was 34% from behind the arc; Saric was 36.5%. He was hitting 50% from the left deep corner; Saric was around 36%. From the right, they were both around 33%.

While the numbers from distance along the arc are heavily skewed in favor of Saric by simple attempts alone, arguing that Saric is a far bigger threat on long jumpers doesn't really compute.
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