if you look back on his career, would you say tony allen should have been a lottery pick? he went 25th. lottery picks that year included devin harris, josh childress, rafael araujo, luke jackson, andris biedrins, robert swift, sebastian telfair and kris humphries. think any of those teams would rather have had the defense only tony allen?j2j wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 3:22 pm I'm trying to come up with a list of lottery level draft prospects that were almost exclusively known for their defense that ended up being good selections. Outside of 7ft, super long shot blocking centers, are there any? Heck, most big time shot blockers are drafted later on.
Maybe I'm missing someone?
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Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Last edited by somuchyummy on Thu May 23, 2019 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
i'll exclude horford and kyrie from your argument because they played college ball in the states and could be found on our TV sets in regular fashion. but sorry. i think your argument loses steam when you cite, as being examples of how the nba can find talent overseas, eleven players who today average a little over 41 years of age. every self respecting bb fan loves toni kukoc, but toni kukoc?!??! didn't he wear the short shorts? as per Section 11, Article 27 of the Rubechat Doctrine of Limited Absurdity, i went back only 8 years in finding supporting evidence for my argument concerning an issue with a player coming into our league this year. toni kukoc?!?Mplsfonz wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 1:37 pmI think they get it wrong on 80% of all talent. Most of those drafted don't even see a second contract, and most not even with the team that drafted them.somuchyummy wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 1:07 pmgreat point about the Freak. the doncic kid and kristaps are also really killing it in the nba.
but in adherence to the Rubechat Fairness Doctrine (Article V, Section 16) it is only right that the following players and draft positions also be included in this discussion. frank ntilikina (8), dragan bender (4), thon maker (10), georgios papagianis (13), guerschon yabusele (16), mario hezonja (5), emmanuel mudiay (7), dante exum (5), lucas noguiera (16), enes kanter (3), jonas valanciunas (5), jan vesely (6), and bismack biyombo (7).
i think the nba gets it wrong more often than they get it right when it comes to foreign talent.
But to site your fairness doctrine, all foreign talent has to be evaluated very thoroughly. They can find talent (no draft numbers, too lazy to look up) but players like Tony Parker, Al Horford, Dirk, Vlade Divac, AK47, Toni Kukoc, Steve Nash, Gasol brothers, Yao Ming, Manu, JJ Vagina, and a little known fact is Kyrie Irving was born down under. So, at this point, international ball is starting to catch up. And plenty of tape makes it easier.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
And I think McHale has been around the game his whole life, at the highest of levels.somuchyummy wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:31 pmi just read that prior to the 2003 draft, kevin mchale was heaping the praise on lebron james and his chances in the league coming directly out of high school - and in the next breath said "and also that kid from texas". which meant ndudi ebi. i was dumbfounded to hear how highly regarded ebi was coming out of high school.j2j wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 2:34 pmNot saying this is you, but there are a lot of people that have "been around this game their whole life" and don't have a clue what they're watching or talking about.UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 1:49 pm
I know basketball, it’s been proven. Been around this game my whole life.
Remember Michael Jordan drafted Kwame Brown.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Where Brandon Clarke got his offense
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Transition, cut, offensive rebound
What we badly need for a 4/5th guy on this team
What we badly need for a 4/5th guy on this team
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Yep.UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 11:32 pm Transition, cut, offensive rebound
What we badly need for a 4/5th guy on this team
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:
Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
in my gut, i still am hoping for clarke. maybe doumbouya would work out, but maybe after 3 years of not working out for us - and he gets it when he's with his second team. if we don't get clarke, plan B for me is a trade back and trying for a late first big like claxton, kabengele or gafford plus a combo (ty jerome).
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
From CBS
Might be a good fit!
11 Timberwolves
Brandon Clarke | Gonzaga | Jr | PF | 6-8
Clarke's 6-8.25 wingspan and 8-6 standing reach came in smaller than a number of guards and forwards at the NBA Draft Combine. That's not great news for an aspiring NBA power forward. But there's hope: he had a max vertical leap of 40.5 inches, which ranked No. 1 among players at his position. He also finished No. 1 in lane agility and No. 2 in standing vertical leap. Can he be the same physically imposing big man in the NBA, the one who led the NCAA last season in shots blocked and field goal percentage, with such a vast array of measurements and skills? If he can, Minnesota's a great fit. He could hide a lot of Karl-Anthony Towns' defensive weaknesses with his shot-blocking and ability to cover space. And for a franchise that's all-in on surrounding KAT with pieces to be successful, isn't that perhaps Clarke's best qualification?
Might be a good fit!
11 Timberwolves
Brandon Clarke | Gonzaga | Jr | PF | 6-8
Clarke's 6-8.25 wingspan and 8-6 standing reach came in smaller than a number of guards and forwards at the NBA Draft Combine. That's not great news for an aspiring NBA power forward. But there's hope: he had a max vertical leap of 40.5 inches, which ranked No. 1 among players at his position. He also finished No. 1 in lane agility and No. 2 in standing vertical leap. Can he be the same physically imposing big man in the NBA, the one who led the NCAA last season in shots blocked and field goal percentage, with such a vast array of measurements and skills? If he can, Minnesota's a great fit. He could hide a lot of Karl-Anthony Towns' defensive weaknesses with his shot-blocking and ability to cover space. And for a franchise that's all-in on surrounding KAT with pieces to be successful, isn't that perhaps Clarke's best qualification?
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Im thinking he will last into the 20s.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
I agree is upside is low but I have a hard time seeing him not be you're 6th or 5th best player. Look at how important that guy is for Houston (Tucker) and Toronto (Green).
I don't think it's a sexy pick but it's a great fit and if he can develop a consistent 3 point shot he'd be awesome next to KAT
I don't think it's a sexy pick but it's a great fit and if he can develop a consistent 3 point shot he'd be awesome next to KAT
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
i've heard more than a few national bb minds now say that clarke looks to be a perfect fit for minny. i won't kick and scream if we trade back - but if we keep the pick and choose someone else, it'll be a big head scratcher.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
5 for 5 versus air in an ungamelike waste of time.
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But tis the season for fans to go crazy over on-air drills that don't translate.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Both of those guys can shoot, though. Tough to be a wing role player if you can't shoot.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:01 am I agree is upside is low but I have a hard time seeing him not be you're 6th or 5th best player. Look at how important that guy is for Houston (Tucker) and Toronto (Green).
I don't think it's a sexy pick but it's a great fit and if he can develop a consistent 3 point shot he'd be awesome next to KAT
Here's hoping he makes great strides in that area, just not sold yet personally.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
i have no misconceptions about clarke's ability to be a three point threat. that's not at all what drafting him would be about.
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- flexbuffchest
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Yep and posting videos of him making a few shots in an open gym, no pressure and no one guarding him has next to nothing about it anyway. But here's some data with real in game infosomuchyummy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:09 am i have no misconceptions about clarke's ability to be a three point threat. that's not at all what drafting him would be about.
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:
Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Almost all of those shots are FT line and in it's true but he has some really nice flip shots and floaters because he's so quick off the floor no one can get up quick enough to contest them. And then of course the dunks!flexbuffchest wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:32 amYep and posting videos of him making a few shots in an open gym, no pressure and no one guarding him has next to nothing about it anyway. But here's some data with real in game infosomuchyummy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:09 am i have no misconceptions about clarke's ability to be a three point threat. that's not at all what drafting him would be about.
If he can keep his FT % around 70% he'll get you 12+ a game and that's huge from a guy who will be a defensive demon.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
i don't think 12ppg is unreasonable to expect at all. tony allen was a very valuable nba player for 14 seasons - a starter for over half of the 820 games he played in. 8.2 ppg career avg with a high season of 11.5 ppg. and clarke has way more potential than tony allen on the offensive side of the ball.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Clarke to me is a Dennis Rodman type of freak. He just has crazy defensive instincts to go with his otherworldly athleticism. Try to find a vid of him getting dunked on. Hell, try to find one where he fouls but doesn't get part of the ball. People that don't know him well think he's some kind of above the rim weak side leaper of a shot blocker. He block 70% of his shots well below the rim because he's just so good at getting his hand to the ball.somuchyummy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:12 am i don't think 12ppg is unreasonable to expect at all. tony allen was a very valuable nba player for 14 seasons - a starter for over half of the 820 games he played in. 8.2 ppg career avg with a high season of 11.5 ppg. and clarke has way more potential than tony allen on the offensive side of the ball.
And none of that considers how he can switch on to anyone with his lateral quickness and how he flys down the court on the rim runs. No one thinks of offense with him but imagine being able to defensive rebound better and he flies down on the rim run with Towns as the trailer shooting that old Love trailer 3? That can fuck some teams up. And you know what happens when you do that? Teams stop sending guys to the offensive glass.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
What does "away from the rim" mean? 3ft+?
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- UnFadeable21
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
We aren’t drafting Clarke to make 5 threes a game. We are drafting him for defense, rebounding, blocking shots, the ability to play his role at a high level and if he can make 1-2 wide open corner 3’s, that would be a plus.
You’re anti bias is clearly showing lol
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
That's good, I wasn't trying to hide it.UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:31 amWe aren’t drafting Clarke to make 5 threes a game. We are drafting him for defense, rebounding, blocking shots, the ability to play his role at a high level and if he can make 1-2 wide open corner 3’s, that would be a plus.
You’re anti bias is clearly showing lol
But my larger point is the same point I make every year at this time, these on-air shooting drills are stupid and so are people who get excited about them. Not just Brandon Clarke, but every prospect every year.
Newsflash, NBA basketball players are really good, and nearly all of them can knock down wide open 3s in an empty gym out of context. Doesn't mean they can in a game.
Drives me nuts that so few of these prospects participate in scrimmages or live work, but they do it because there's no value in it for them.
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- UnFadeable21
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
I like that his game tape matches his athletic testing. I like that he knows his role and excels in it. I like that he can contribute day one at a high level. I don’t know if Dario is the future 4 and since he’s on a one year deal, I wouldn’t mind Clarke as the pick. He’s mature, can slam; and block shots at a high level. His motor is always there as well.j2j wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:39 amThat's good, I wasn't trying to hide it.UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:31 amWe aren’t drafting Clarke to make 5 threes a game. We are drafting him for defense, rebounding, blocking shots, the ability to play his role at a high level and if he can make 1-2 wide open corner 3’s, that would be a plus.
You’re anti bias is clearly showing lol
But my larger point is the same point I make every year at this time, these on-air shooting drills are stupid and so are people who get excited about them. Not just Brandon Clarke, but every prospect every year.
Newsflash, NBA basketball players are really good, and nearly all of them can knock down wide open 3s in an empty gym out of context. Doesn't mean they can in a game.
Drives me nuts that so few of these prospects participate in scrimmages or live work, but they do it because there's no value in it for them.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Exactly. The least they could’ve done is put a chair in front of him like Yi had.j2j wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:06 am5 for 5 versus air in an ungamelike waste of time.
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But tis the season for fans to go crazy over on-air drills that don't translate.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Supposedly the Chairman Yi story was fabricated by Bill Simmons, but it's hilarious and has a lot of truth to it for the whole process.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
I think the main point is that Clarke isn't just a dunker or someone who gets point blank put backs. Doesn't have range but it seems he has good "touch" close to the basket.
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:
Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
I remember Chris Mannix saying he didn’t see Yi actually post up a chair, but confirmed that they did have one in front of him on shooting drills to mimic a screener.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
tony allen was all league defensive either 1st or 2nd team for 6 years. i'm not sure if clarke has that in line for himself - but if anyone coming out this year does, it's him. i'd love to pair that with KAT in our frontcourt for the foreseeable future. it would completely change our defensive tone - especially with cov and okogie also in the mix. and if we sign beverley in free agency? fuck.Thrillkill wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:22 amClarke to me is a Dennis Rodman type of freak. He just has crazy defensive instincts to go with his otherworldly athleticism. Try to find a vid of him getting dunked on. Hell, try to find one where he fouls but doesn't get part of the ball. People that don't know him well think he's some kind of above the rim weak side leaper of a shot blocker. He block 70% of his shots well below the rim because he's just so good at getting his hand to the ball.somuchyummy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:12 am i don't think 12ppg is unreasonable to expect at all. tony allen was a very valuable nba player for 14 seasons - a starter for over half of the 820 games he played in. 8.2 ppg career avg with a high season of 11.5 ppg. and clarke has way more potential than tony allen on the offensive side of the ball.
And none of that considers how he can switch on to anyone with his lateral quickness and how he flys down the court on the rim runs. No one thinks of offense with him but imagine being able to defensive rebound better and he flies down on the rim run with Towns as the trailer shooting that old Love trailer 3? That can fuck some teams up. And you know what happens when you do that? Teams stop sending guys to the offensive glass.
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Re: Brandon Clarke Draft Thread
Yeah definitely a concern. I think with his work ethic and the program/system Rosas will put in place that he would develop it.j2j wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:09 amBoth of those guys can shoot, though. Tough to be a wing role player if you can't shoot.OliverMiller wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:01 am I agree is upside is low but I have a hard time seeing him not be you're 6th or 5th best player. Look at how important that guy is for Houston (Tucker) and Toronto (Green).
I don't think it's a sexy pick but it's a great fit and if he can develop a consistent 3 point shot he'd be awesome next to KAT
Here's hoping he makes great strides in that area, just not sold yet personally.
Definitely a concern though and not a lock