Start Tyus?

[SO_MONEY]

I'll never forget Thrillkill and so_money saying he wasn't an NBA player and won't stick in the league long.

So_Money threw a fucking shit fit when he was picked. It was asinine.

I am sorry, but I still believe it is stupid to trade up for a player in the first round that has a ceiling of a backup. I called him a 3rd string PG, ingest, the irony being for the bulk of his career that is what he has been. He has had two stretches his entire career where he has looked okay. In his defense he has been a better team defender than I expected (which is important), but still probably our worst man defender (also important), beyond that my opinion of him has not changed other than I thought he would shoot better, that is on shots he doesn't get blocked. He is what he is. No, he shouldn't start, people should just be happy he may become an average backup at some point. With that, you don't pay average backups good money, you let other teams do that and that is where were are, he is due his second contract and has demonstrated himself to be quite limited and is on par with many vet minimum guys. Rookies who are cheaper might be more risky, but have talent to not be limited. Guys like Tyus have a role in the NBA, not if they can't defend some (which he couldn't), but as they get older and their years of service increase they become less appealing relative to the cost, this was always my concern for Tyus. I think based on his play and age, he may only get one contract above vet minimum, that shouldn't be from us, unless it is a one year deal where we in effect front load money "wink wink".

[winforlose]

I'll never forget Thrillkill and so_money saying he wasn't an NBA player and won't stick in the league long.

So_Money threw a fucking shit fit when he was picked. It was asinine.

I am sorry, but I still believe it is stupid to trade up for a player in the first round that has a ceiling of a backup. I called him a 3rd string PG, ingest, the irony being for the bulk of his career that is what he has been. He has had two stretches his entire career where he has looked okay. In his defense he has been a better team defender than I expected (which is important), but still probably our worst man defender (also important), beyond that my opinion of him has not changed other than I thought he would shoot better, that is on shots he doesn't get blocked. He is what he is. No, he shouldn't start, people should just be happy he may become an average backup at some point. With that, you don't pay average backups good money, you let other teams do that and that is where were are, he is due his second contract and has demonstrated himself to be quite limited and is on par with many vet minimum guys. Rookies who are cheaper might be more risky, but have talent to not be limited. Guys like Tyus have a role in the NBA, not if they can't defend some (which he couldn't), but as they get older and their years of service increase they become less appealing relative to the cost, this was always my concern for Tyus. I think based on his play and age, he may only get one contract above vet minimum, that shouldn't be from us, unless it is a one year deal where we in effect front load money "wink wink".

Even if I agreed with your assessment of his skills (which I don't,) I would still ask you to consider a few things.

1. Jeff Teague and D Rose have both shown opposite ends of the spectrum, and both have very badly hurt our offense. Teague passes up open shots, dribbles to much, and does not create his own shot enough. Rose is the opposite in that he doesn't look to pass, takes too many shots, (often ignoring the wide open 3 that his penetration just created, and as a result often double teamed,) and often takes wild shots (which sometimes go in, but not at a high enough rate to make them a good first option.) Tyus is a balance between the two. He can penetrate and kick out, he can get to the rim and score, his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.) Also he is just as good without the ball, which allows Towns and Wiggins to do good things (which is why good things happen with Tyus in the game.) Good things include, attack the rim, Kat inside outside game, Wiggins making basket cuts (this needs to happen more often) off the Kat double for dunks. My point is you need an off ball point to maximize the value of this lineup.

2. Defensively Rose is more often than not a disaster. His man defense is not better than Tyus and sometimes considerably worse. Rose does not play nearly the level of team defense nor does he get as many steals. Teague is better at man than Tyus (slightly when healthy,) but again lacks the steals and help defense that Tyus offers. Overall Tyus is serviceable on defense, but make up for his weaknesses with quick hands and high basketball IQ.

3. Tyus will be cheaper than a traditional starting PG. If we can get him for 6-8 mil that would be a steal. I don't know how many teams are going to rush to give him more. He is a RFA next season which means we need only match to keep him. Moreover, Tyus is from Minnesota and I genuinely believe would like to stay if offered more minutes and a bigger role.

To summarize, Tyus is a good compliment to Towns and Wiggins and our overall number of shooters on the first squad, (Kat, Wiggins, Roco, Taj, Tyus, in order of shooting priority.) Tyus's defense is adequate for our needs and should help to keep affordable. His desire to stay in MN might also save some money. Finally let's not forget he is very good at protecting the ball. His turnover numbers are very low and he leads the league in steals to turnover ratio (I believe, it might be assists to turnovers, or something like that.)

[boxter432]

his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.)

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

[somuchyummy]

Tyus is better than Ricky in that he can drive and finish and has a nice shot. We are seeing more of what Tyus is capable of with increased minutes. I think he can be way better than Ricky.

tyus has only once again started to finish drives strong. for a long time he was hopeless - worse than ricky. not sure what's gotten into him since saunders took over, but it's been better. right now, however, it's still just a blip of improvement compared to the vast majority of his career. if he can keep it up - if he's solved that puzzle - then that would indeed be very cool.

Last year he shot 68% from within 3 feet.

i would wager that he shot this well from within 3 feet simply due to NOT pulling the trigger on most of those opportunities. they were probably, for the most part, open looks. if tyus drives to the hoop and there IS resistance, he most often tries to pass out of it or continues to dribble thru and back out like we see teague do. which is great in a way because he's not continually trying to force shots that he can't make. but it does point out his inability to take it strong to the hoop and score thru or over a defender. tyus really needs to be open to score - both on his drives and his perimeter shots.

[HeHateMe]

his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.)

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

I thought he'd be a better shooter in the pros than he's been. Still think if he's out there on the floor next year with Wiggins+Roco+Saric+Towns, you just need him to be floor general. I know we got Okogie for Rubio but..... I'd take him back in a pg pair with Tyus.

[Billy Ray]

his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.)

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

I thought he'd be a better shooter in the pros than he's been. Still think if he's out there on the floor next year with Wiggins+Roco+Saric+Towns, you just need him to be floor general. I know we got Okogie for Rubio but..... I'd take him back in a pg pair with Tyus.

So......Does the Jazz like Teague at all? Could do a straight up swap of JT and Rubio

I actually think its a good trade for both. DM has struggled a bit this year, and the Jazz literally have nobody from the perimeter to generate offense

[HeHateMe]

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

I thought he'd be a better shooter in the pros than he's been. Still think if he's out there on the floor next year with Wiggins+Roco+Saric+Towns, you just need him to be floor general. I know we got Okogie for Rubio but..... I'd take him back in a pg pair with Tyus.

So......Does the Jazz like Teague at all? Could do a straight up swap of JT and Rubio

I actually think its a good trade for both. DM has struggled a bit this year, and the Jazz literally have nobody from the perimeter to generate offense

If the Jazz were concerned about losing Rubio they might do it....

[winforlose]

his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.)

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

First, this response is misleading. Rubio's earlier season percentages are much lower than this year and last year as Utah changed his priorities from floor general to offensive weapon. The wolves could not rely on Ricky to make any shot consistently enough to stop defenders from cheating off of him (much like green this year for GSW.)

Second, Tyus does not need to be great from 3. There is only 1 basketball, and the majority of offense should run through Kat, Wiggins and Roco (Roco is a decent/good 3 point shooter.) As long as he can make them guard him, then Tyus is talented enough to start. Especially if he does enough other things right to make his time on the floor positive.

[flexbuffchest]

tyus has only once again started to finish drives strong. for a long time he was hopeless - worse than ricky. not sure what's gotten into him since saunders took over, but it's been better. right now, however, it's still just a blip of improvement compared to the vast majority of his career. if he can keep it up - if he's solved that puzzle - then that would indeed be very cool.

Last year he shot 68% from within 3 feet.

i would wager that he shot this well from within 3 feet simply due to NOT pulling the trigger on most of those opportunities. they were probably, for the most part, open looks. if tyus drives to the hoop and there IS resistance, he most often tries to pass out of it or continues to dribble thru and back out like we see teague do. which is great in a way because he's not continually trying to force shots that he can't make. but it does point out his inability to take it strong to the hoop and score thru or over a defender. tyus really needs to be open to score - both on his drives and his perimeter shots.

He actually shot 22.9% of his shots from within 3' last year which is a career high.

[SO_MONEY]

his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.)

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

First, this response is misleading. Rubio's earlier season percentages are much lower than this year and last year as Utah changed his priorities from floor general to offensive weapon. The wolves could not rely on Ricky to make any shot consistently enough to stop defenders from cheating off of him (much like green this year for GSW.)

Second, Tyus does not need to be great from 3. There is only 1 basketball, and the majority of offense should run through Kat, Wiggins and Roco (Roco is a decent/good 3 point shooter.) As long as he can make them guard him, then Tyus is talented enough to start. Especially if he does enough other things right to make his time on the floor positive.

Worrying about comparing Rubio and Tyus is pretty pointless, Rubio is clearly the better player, very good defender with positional flexibility in that regard, very good rebounder for his position and is dynamic with the ball, but also smart with it when need be which places far more pressure on opposing defenses than Tyus ever will be able to. The thing is Ricky is on the verge of becoming a backup and that is still with him improving some aspects of his game; what does that say about Tyus? Also, defenses never really ignore Ricky like they do Tyus, Ricky has a design of purpose and will twist you into knots which is a whole lot different skill level than Tyus, so the "Rubio problem" you see is more a Tyus problem if anything.

[jodaman01]

The Wolves need to find out exactly what Tyus is.

Way to many here gladly pointing out what he can’t do as though it is in cement that he will never be able to do them. He has never been given the keys to the car and been told it’s all his to drive. The last time a coach did that with him he delivered a National Championship. Also for the Season they played together, Okafor has never looked better than when he played with Tyus.....coincidence - likely not.

Saunders loves him and trusts him, that is a first here for Tyus. Let the kid play and start trying to focus on All the good that he can bring instead of trying to put him in a box based on the shit coaching and limited minutes he has had here. We know more definitively what Teague and Rose are...there are years and tons of NBA minutes to tell their stories.

It’s Tyus Time!

GO WOLVES!!

[RubeTube]

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

I thought he'd be a better shooter in the pros than he's been. Still think if he's out there on the floor next year with Wiggins+Roco+Saric+Towns, you just need him to be floor general. I know we got Okogie for Rubio but..... I'd take him back in a pg pair with Tyus.

So......Does the Jazz like Teague at all? Could do a straight up swap of JT and Rubio

I actually think its a good trade for both. DM has struggled a bit this year, and the Jazz literally have nobody from the perimeter to generate offense

Jesus H. If I have to go back to watching this team with Rubio.... Set your sights higher froobs.

[RubeTube]

his 3 point shooting is streaky, but not so bad as to facilitate a double on other wolves (the classic Rubio problem.)

3pt %
Tyus career .332
Rubio career .326

Tyus last year and this year .349 .301
Rubio last year and this year .352 .337

its bad.

I thought he'd be a better shooter in the pros than he's been. Still think if he's out there on the floor next year with Wiggins+Roco+Saric+Towns, you just need him to be floor general. I know we got Okogie for Rubio but..... I'd take him back in a pg pair with Tyus.

That's a perfect lineup to be picking in the lottery again.

[Philo Beddoe]

RIP Tyus ankle

[UnFadeable21]

My plan was to start Tyus for the rest of the season to piss off Jeff Teague enough that he would opt out of his contract next season but with Tyus out for the long term, it looks like we will get more Jeff Teague

[Billy Ray]

My plan was to start Tyus for the rest of the season to piss off Jeff Teague enough that he would opt out of his contract next season but with Tyus out for the long term, it looks like we will get more Jeff Teague

I'm so sick of jeff teague

[Billy Ray]

I thought he'd be a better shooter in the pros than he's been. Still think if he's out there on the floor next year with Wiggins+Roco+Saric+Towns, you just need him to be floor general. I know we got Okogie for Rubio but..... I'd take him back in a pg pair with Tyus.

So......Does the Jazz like Teague at all? Could do a straight up swap of JT and Rubio

I actually think its a good trade for both. DM has struggled a bit this year, and the Jazz literally have nobody from the perimeter to generate offense

Jesus H. If I have to go back to watching this team with Rubio.... Set your sights higher froobs.

its less of getting Rubio back and more of getting out of JT's contract

[Reetz]

My plan was to start Tyus for the rest of the season to piss off Jeff Teague enough that he would opt out of his contract next season but with Tyus out for the long term, it looks like we will get more Jeff Teague

I'm so sick of jeff teague

Teague makes me not want to what wolves basketball. He gets open shots all the time, gets the ball and.....oh I think I'll dribble this ball for a while

[winforlose]

Now that Tyus is down we cannot even afford to trade Teague without getting a PG back. Bayless is worse than most 2 way players and Rose is a Humpty Dumpty waiting to fall. Sad to say we may have to throw a #1 pick in the mix and go get DSJ.

The alternative is you start tanking now. Play KBD and Okogie big minutes. Give Deng a real chance to play as well. Trade what you can from our trade bait and just hope to get low enough to draft someone useful (in one of the worst drafts in years, SMH.)

[Billy Ray]

Now that Tyus is down we cannot even afford to trade Teague without getting a PG back. Bayless is worse than most 2 way players and Rose is a Humpty Dumpty waiting to fall. Sad to say we may have to throw a #1 pick in the mix and go get DSJ.

The alternative is you start tanking now. Play KBD and Okogie big minutes. Give Deng a real chance to play as well. Trade what you can from our trade bait and just hope to get low enough to draft someone useful (in one of the worst drafts in years, SMH.)

I'd still trade and take a guy off the streets. This team needs a distrubtor that makes good, quick decisions.

[jodaman01]

I’m sad today. I was sure that Tyus was going to be starting soon and the Wolves would make big strides as a Team with him starting and Saunders coaching.

I know in my gut at this point there is no improvement to be had with Teague and Rose can’t physically handle it.

Just......shit.

GO WOLVES!!

[Lightning]

Sounds like the ankle is not as bad as it could've been.

[SHAFA]

Sounds like the ankle is not as bad as it could've been.

Wait a minute, I’m sure there was someone...around here...who guaranteed that he tore all tendons and nerves.

[D_H]

Sounds like the ankle is not as bad as it could've been.

That's great news it look pretty bad when you watched the replay

[memyworld]

[flexbuffchest]

And for reference, this isn't some small sample size either.

2 man lineup: Tyus + Roco have played 295 minutes together and out of all 2 man lineups they have by far the highest netrtg at +15.6 but the second highest is +5.6 netrtg

3 man lineup: RoCo + Tyus + Okogie is pretty generous with the minute count as they have only played 58 minutes together but the results are nonetheless very impressive.

5 man lineup: This one I wouldn't put too much stock into. They've played just 37 minutes together.

[somuchyummy]

utah might not be as interested in teague as they'd be interested in rose. they need another playmaking scorer to take the load off mitchell - who despite slightly better numbers is still supposedly struggling a bit this year - and rose has had a pretty damn good season in that regard. teague, rose AND rubio are all short term options - either hitting free agency this year or the next - so in that regard, it's nearly 6 of 1 half dozen of the other. utah has also tired of derrick favors and wants to move him.

rose and wiggins to utah for rubio and favors. i'd pay to see that just for the way quin snyder would handle our perennial loafer.

rubio starts, teague takes rose's role as scoring backup PG, and tyus stays as the third - with the intention of moving teague as soon as someone wants his expiring - and tyus settling into regular backup PG minutes behind rubio. we also get a rebounding/shot blocking PF/C vet to take the place of taj. believe it or not, favors is still only 27 years old. that's younger than gorgui.

another non-wiggins option to help utah with their scoring PG needs - while also relieving some junk from our cap would be dieng/rose/bayless/deng for rubio/favors. $ on that deal are almost an exact match.

i honestly don't like either of these options as well as just going all in for satoransky in free agency - simply because sato is a way better shooter than rubio. but it might be a way to peddle wiggins or gorgui off into the sunset.

[LordNu]

And for reference, this isn't some small sample size either.

2 man lineup: Tyus + Roco have played 295 minutes together and out of all 2 man lineups they have by far the highest netrtg at +15.6 but the second highest is +5.6 netrtg

3 man lineup: RoCo + Tyus + Okogie is pretty generous with the minute count as they have only played 58 minutes together but the results are nonetheless very impressive.

5 man lineup: This one I wouldn't put too much stock into. They've played just 37 minutes together.

Sort of goes to show good TEAMS don't necessarily have elite individuals in them. I keep thinking of Boston last season.

[winforlose]

Pretend the following 3 things are true. 1. Jeff Teague is traded, 2. Derrick rose will not be traded and will be resigned. 3. The wolves acquire any PG from the 1st round of DSJ's draft. Do you start Tyus? My opinion is yes, with Rose remaining at the 2.

[YBBR]

Rose is a great 6th man. Who can close if he's hot.

Tyus Jones' qualifying offer is $3.5 Million. I would be pretty surprised if they didn't extend him at least that and see what he could garner in RFA, or work out a deal themselves.