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Towns last 5 games

A place to discuss the MN Timberwolves
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kilkenny
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by kilkenny »

memyworld wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:54 pm
I can't help myself. We need to trade this guy!? :lol:
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:45 pm
Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:55 pm Neil Johnston? No way any of you know who that is.
Philadelphia Warrior great.
Fo duck yourself πŸ˜‚
zeitgeist
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by zeitgeist »

Towns always starts out a bit slow but turns it on at the end of the year.
mlhouse wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:52 pm Einstein has his area of expertise, I have mine.
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bubu dubu.
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by bubu dubu. »

Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:55 pm Neil Johnston? No way any of you know who that is.
I had to look him up. Hard to imagine the two guys on the left balling now.

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Beef Supreme
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Beef Supreme »

bubu dubu. wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:56 am
Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:55 pm Neil Johnston? No way any of you know who that is.
I had to look him up. Hard to imagine the two guys on the left balling now.

Image
That is quite the head on ol’ #6 there.


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”Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt.”

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flexbuffchest
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by flexbuffchest »

This is a little crazy.

https://stats.nba.com/player/1626157/advanced/

Home: +9.1 netrtg
Away: -3.1 netrtg

Wins: +17.2 netrtg
Losses: -8.9 netrtg

Also everyone except Cj Williams, Caanan, Butler and KBD have a positive netrtg while playing with KAT.

https://stats.nba.com/impact/advanced/# ... TING&dir=1
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
Thrillkill
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Thrillkill »

Umm........1-4?

He's a better version of Kevin Love. Can be an absolute freak when he's hot but gives back a lot on the other end. Better defender than Love inside but still shit in P&R. Crazy that he got as good at Love at at shooting the 3 though. Still needs to draw more fouls. Other than that what can he demonstrably improve on offense?

But how many wins that get Love? How many is it getting Towns? Biggest mistake with Love was still signing Martin instead of C. Lee. Can't make those with Towns if we ever want to win. We put him with one tough guy defender and were just WAY better. And it's about US being better not him. Of course he ran him off so I will always have doubts whether he's a top 10 freak or a Melo style stat machine.
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 am Umm........1-4?

He's a better version of Kevin Love. Can be an absolute freak when he's hot but gives back a lot on the other end. Better defender than Love inside but still shit in P&R. Crazy that he got as good at Love at at shooting the 3 though. Still needs to draw more fouls. Other than that what can he demonstrably improve on offense?

But how many wins that get Love? How many is it getting Towns? Biggest mistake with Love was still signing Martin instead of C. Lee. Can't make those with Towns if we ever want to win. We put him with one tough guy defender and were just WAY better. And it's about US being better not him. Of course he ran him off so I will always have doubts whether he's a top 10 freak or a Melo style stat machine.
Yep, you're right, we were way better with Covington. :naners:
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flexbuffchest
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by flexbuffchest »

Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 am Umm........1-4?

He's a better version of Kevin Love. Can be an absolute freak when he's hot but gives back a lot on the other end. Better defender than Love inside but still shit in P&R. Crazy that he got as good at Love at at shooting the 3 though. Still needs to draw more fouls. Other than that what can he demonstrably improve on offense?

But how many wins that get Love? How many is it getting Towns? Biggest mistake with Love was still signing Martin instead of C. Lee. Can't make those with Towns if we ever want to win. We put him with one tough guy defender and were just WAY better. And it's about US being better not him. Of course he ran him off so I will always have doubts whether he's a top 10 freak or a Melo style stat machine.
You're never going to admit that the rest of the team matters, will you?

KAT obviously has flaws but he really hasn't had much help at all throughout his career.

Rookie year his starters were: Rubio, Wiggins, Lavine and Dieng. Yet we still improved by 13 games over the previous year mainly due to KAT. Meanwhile the our backups were lead by Bazz and Tayshaun Prince. :lol:

Sophomore year: Same starting lineup with Bazz, Bjelica and Dunn getting the majority of the back up minutes. :lol:

3rd season: Finally got some good help. Butler and Taj were huge additions (although Taj isn't a good fit next to KAT). Teague turned out to be really meh. Crawford was our leading backup and he was arguably the worst defender in the league. Bjelica and Dieng were the other main backups.

This year: Well it's been completely fucked up. Butler was trying his hardest to tank the team and after the trade when we got Saric and RoCo (two really good role players) we actually got some decent depth and our team started to win. Then injuries started to fuck everything up again.

You can't surround KAT with a few good role players and expect to be a great team. You need other good starters and so far RoCo of all people has proven to be our second best player this year and 3rd best player that KAT has ever played with which is really, really sad.

Aside from your conformation bias there isn't a single stat or analysis out there that doesn't show KAT makes a huge impact.
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
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flexbuffchest
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by flexbuffchest »

Here's a fun thought experiment. If you took KAT off this team how many wins do we get? It'd be very close to the low 20's.
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

flexbuffchest wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:13 pm Here's a fun thought experiment. If you took KAT off this team how many wins do we get? It'd be very close to the low 20's.
Would not crack 20. That is a team picking in the top 5 each year. Wiggins WS is like negative 10. :lol:
Thrillkill
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Thrillkill »

Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:00 pm
Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 am Umm........1-4?

He's a better version of Kevin Love. Can be an absolute freak when he's hot but gives back a lot on the other end. Better defender than Love inside but still shit in P&R. Crazy that he got as good at Love at at shooting the 3 though. Still needs to draw more fouls. Other than that what can he demonstrably improve on offense?

But how many wins that get Love? How many is it getting Towns? Biggest mistake with Love was still signing Martin instead of C. Lee. Can't make those with Towns if we ever want to win. We put him with one tough guy defender and were just WAY better. And it's about US being better not him. Of course he ran him off so I will always have doubts whether he's a top 10 freak or a Melo style stat machine.
Yep, you're right, we were way better with Covington. :naners:
We were going to be the 3rd seed in the west with him.............right?
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:48 pm
Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:00 pm
Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 am Umm........1-4?

He's a better version of Kevin Love. Can be an absolute freak when he's hot but gives back a lot on the other end. Better defender than Love inside but still shit in P&R. Crazy that he got as good at Love at at shooting the 3 though. Still needs to draw more fouls. Other than that what can he demonstrably improve on offense?

But how many wins that get Love? How many is it getting Towns? Biggest mistake with Love was still signing Martin instead of C. Lee. Can't make those with Towns if we ever want to win. We put him with one tough guy defender and were just WAY better. And it's about US being better not him. Of course he ran him off so I will always have doubts whether he's a top 10 freak or a Melo style stat machine.
Yep, you're right, we were way better with Covington. :naners:
We were going to be the 3rd seed in the west with him.............right?
Yes.
Thrillkill
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Thrillkill »

flexbuffchest wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:09 pm
Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:49 am Umm........1-4?

He's a better version of Kevin Love. Can be an absolute freak when he's hot but gives back a lot on the other end. Better defender than Love inside but still shit in P&R. Crazy that he got as good at Love at at shooting the 3 though. Still needs to draw more fouls. Other than that what can he demonstrably improve on offense?

But how many wins that get Love? How many is it getting Towns? Biggest mistake with Love was still signing Martin instead of C. Lee. Can't make those with Towns if we ever want to win. We put him with one tough guy defender and were just WAY better. And it's about US being better not him. Of course he ran him off so I will always have doubts whether he's a top 10 freak or a Melo style stat machine.
You're never going to admit that the rest of the team matters, will you?

KAT obviously has flaws but he really hasn't had much help at all throughout his career.

Rookie year his starters were: Rubio, Wiggins, Lavine and Dieng. Yet we still improved by 13 games over the previous year mainly due to KAT. Meanwhile the our backups were lead by Bazz and Tayshaun Prince. :lol:

Sophomore year: Same starting lineup with Bazz, Bjelica and Dunn getting the majority of the back up minutes. :lol:

3rd season: Finally got some good help. Butler and Taj were huge additions (although Taj isn't a good fit next to KAT). Teague turned out to be really meh. Crawford was our leading backup and he was arguably the worst defender in the league. Bjelica and Dieng were the other main backups.

This year: Well it's been completely fucked up. Butler was trying his hardest to tank the team and after the trade when we got Saric and RoCo (two really good role players) we actually got some decent depth and our team started to win. Then injuries started to fuck everything up again.

You can't surround KAT with a few good role players and expect to be a great team. You need other good starters and so far RoCo of all people has proven to be our second best player this year and 3rd best player that KAT has ever played with which is really, really sad.

Aside from your conformation bias there isn't a single stat or analysis out there that doesn't show KAT makes a huge impact.
Of course it matters who's on the team. Might want to go back to year one when you mock the supporting cast and remember that KG, Prince< and Rubio were not only making him look much better on D they were making him play it. That was when in my eyes he was about to be the best player in the NBA and I wouldn't trade him for AD.

And as I have said 1 million times. Kat is a top 5 offensive player at worst. But a lot of that is mitigated by his bad D. And I am not blaming the team or teammates for his lack of effort or awareness. That's on him. But I certainly do not think we have done him any favors in that regard. Getting rid of KG a year early was a crime but Taylor is too big a pussy to keep him around after he was going to chump him on letting him buy the team. Teague was a nice pickup for him on offense. On D watching them in the pick and roll is.......... like being psychic. Just yell lob dunk every time you see it and you'll be right 50% at worst. Gibson was a great pickup in every respect except Towns is so bad in P&R that Taj ends up under the hoop as the last line and he hasn't blocked a shot since college. Just insert Saric in that same line. Easily the best 2 man combo Towns has been in was with Gorgs. In typical Wolves fashion we gave him a big extension to do just that and then never played them together again.

Look, I like messing with all you fan boys. It's not like I don't see the crazy shit he's doing on offense. Just don't know how it blinds you to what he doesn't on D. Yeah well wigs missed a shot is not an excuse. No he is no where near as bad on D as he is good on offense but when it's effort it's inexcusable. And this offseason the team certainly needs to realize that if he is the freak he looked like recently you better get a mind control machine to get him to play D or you better get 4 really good defenders to play with him. Otherwise I will see you next year when we are failing to get a big stop or rebound on our way to the 9th seed.
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

That brief period with Covington healthy, we were rated in the top 5 in defense I believe, it was posted some place on here. It was a dramatic difference statistically and visually. I don't think an elite offensive player has to be a top defender for you to succeed, just like I don't expect a defensive player to be an offensive juggernaut. Mix and match the team. Heck, KG was not an elite offensive player. Towns already has two season higher than KG's best season.
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by irishman89 »

Just saw KAT at Best Buy. He was not in a good mood.
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

irishman89 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm Just saw KAT at Best Buy. He was not in a good mood.
Minnetonka?
Thrillkill
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Thrillkill »

Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:12 pm That brief period with Covington healthy, we were rated in the top 5 in defense I believe, it was posted some place on here. It was a dramatic difference statistically and visually. I don't think an elite offensive player has to be a top defender for you to succeed, just like I don't expect a defensive player to be an offensive juggernaut. Mix and match the team. Heck, KG was not an elite offensive player. Towns already has two season higher than KG's best season.
No you don't have to be really good on D if you are Towns level on offense, but you can't be really bad at it. If so you need to either change the scheme, or the players, or take time out and replace him down the stretch. I always hated the talk of getting a good defender to play next to Love because so many were blind to the fact that Pek was an excellent defender. Love was just absolutely abysmal in his effort. Towns effort varies greatly but he's not currently anywhere near what Love was just backing out of bounds and giving up layups.

Legit 2 way players are hard to come by. Covington is one of the best and you still would never expect to book him for even 15 points a night. Wigs should be at worst solid on both ends and is.................then isn't. I have big hope for Okogie turning into at least Covington level on offense. But we have no D at the point. We have no D at the 4. Minus fixing those spots or getting Towns to turn it around on D we will watch Towns put up fantastic games and as many losses as wins.
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by HeHateMe »

I wish we'd stop blaming Kevin Love and KAT for the lack of team success.
thinktank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
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flexbuffchest
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by flexbuffchest »

Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:04 pm Of course it matters who's on the team. Might want to go back to year one when you mock the supporting cast and remember that KG, Prince< and Rubio were not only making him look much better on D they were making him play it. That was when in my eyes he was about to be the best player in the NBA and I wouldn't trade him for AD.

And as I have said 1 million times. Kat is a top 5 offensive player at worst. But a lot of that is mitigated by his bad D. And I am not blaming the team or teammates for his lack of effort or awareness. That's on him. But I certainly do not think we have done him any favors in that regard. Getting rid of KG a year early was a crime but Taylor is too big a pussy to keep him around after he was going to chump him on letting him buy the team. Teague was a nice pickup for him on offense. On D watching them in the pick and roll is.......... like being psychic. Just yell lob dunk every time you see it and you'll be right 50% at worst. Gibson was a great pickup in every respect except Towns is so bad in P&R that Taj ends up under the hoop as the last line and he hasn't blocked a shot since college. Just insert Saric in that same line. Easily the best 2 man combo Towns has been in was with Gorgs. In typical Wolves fashion we gave him a big extension to do just that and then never played them together again.

Look, I like messing with all you fan boys. It's not like I don't see the crazy shit he's doing on offense. Just don't know how it blinds you to what he doesn't on D. Yeah well wigs missed a shot is not an excuse. No he is no where near as bad on D as he is good on offense but when it's effort it's inexcusable. And this offseason the team certainly needs to realize that if he is the freak he looked like recently you better get a mind control machine to get him to play D or you better get 4 really good defenders to play with him. Otherwise I will see you next year when we are failing to get a big stop or rebound on our way to the 9th seed.
KG played 39 games and only 14 MPG and Prince was horrible when he was here.

As far as KAT and his D goes, aside from people pointing out his improvements (still isn't good) I'm not really sure people are blind to it. He gets called out all the time for it.

The issue I have is that KAT is maybe about 5% why the Wolves suck and yet he gets called out by some who think he is the problem with the Wolves and want him traded. Point out all the legitimate deficiencies in his game that you want but you need to factor in context when trying to explain why this team isn't very good.

I do think KAT would be playing along side a better defending center but that center has to have some semblance of a jump shot. KAT could still play the exact same way on offense but on D he wouldn't have to be the last line of defense.
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:27 pm
Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:12 pm That brief period with Covington healthy, we were rated in the top 5 in defense I believe, it was posted some place on here. It was a dramatic difference statistically and visually. I don't think an elite offensive player has to be a top defender for you to succeed, just like I don't expect a defensive player to be an offensive juggernaut. Mix and match the team. Heck, KG was not an elite offensive player. Towns already has two season higher than KG's best season.
No you don't have to be really good on D if you are Towns level on offense, but you can't be really bad at it. If so you need to either change the scheme, or the players, or take time out and replace him down the stretch. I always hated the talk of getting a good defender to play next to Love because so many were blind to the fact that Pek was an excellent defender. Love was just absolutely abysmal in his effort. Towns effort varies greatly but he's not currently anywhere near what Love was just backing out of bounds and giving up layups.

Legit 2 way players are hard to come by. Covington is one of the best and you still would never expect to book him for even 15 points a night. Wigs should be at worst solid on both ends and is.................then isn't. I have big hope for Okogie turning into at least Covington level on offense. But we have no D at the point. We have no D at the 4. Minus fixing those spots or getting Towns to turn it around on D we will watch Towns put up fantastic games and as many losses as wins.
We are more or less on the same page.
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Thrillkill »

HeHateMe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:30 pm I wish we'd stop blaming Kevin Love and KAT for the lack of team success.
You think Kevin Love tried on D? Was it you that posted the proof that defensive stats are worthless that said he was good on D? Did we win with him? Was offense our problem? Did we suck on D? Do we now? Does defense matter? Are we winning now? Does Kat get credit for wins then?

I wish we'd stop fan boy loving and just root for the team instead of players. I wish we'd realize that if you are part of the team on one end you are part of the team on the other. I wish we'd realize that the 40 Towns and Love contributed to our 120 was fun. That the 60 of the other team's 130 that was scored in their face was the reason we lost.
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memyworld
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by memyworld »

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Moses Scurry
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by Moses Scurry »

Memy gets WC MVP today.
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irishman89
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by irishman89 »

Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 pm
irishman89 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm Just saw KAT at Best Buy. He was not in a good mood.
Minnetonka?
Richfield.
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flexbuffchest
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by flexbuffchest »

irishman89 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 pm
Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:25 pm
irishman89 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm Just saw KAT at Best Buy. He was not in a good mood.
Minnetonka?
Richfield.
Not in a good mood how?
UnFadeable21 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
HeHateMe
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by HeHateMe »

Thrillkill wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:22 pm
HeHateMe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:30 pm I wish we'd stop blaming Kevin Love and KAT for the lack of team success.
You think Kevin Love tried on D? Was it you that posted the proof that defensive stats are worthless that said he was good on D? Did we win with him? Was offense our problem? Did we suck on D? Do we now? Does defense matter? Are we winning now? Does Kat get credit for wins then?

I wish we'd stop fan boy loving and just root for the team instead of players. I wish we'd realize that if you are part of the team on one end you are part of the team on the other. I wish we'd realize that the 40 Towns and Love contributed to our 120 was fun. That the 60 of the other team's 130 that was scored in their face was the reason we lost.
I never said Love was more than average on the defensive end. He sure got a lot of blame when he was here though.
thinktank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by HeHateMe »

irishman89 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 pm Just saw KAT at Best Buy. He was not in a good mood.
He looked pretty happy from the video at Earl Browne Elementary today.
thinktank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
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kilkenny
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by kilkenny »

Come on. Ripping on Towns D? He's gotten better every year and it shows. His teammates could be better and he'd shine if he had a better defending PF. Check out his DRPM over the past 4 years if you like. He's +1.34 this season by the way which is good for 86th in the league.

The guy Towns has to play with at wing is -1.57 which is good for 445th in the league. But I know stats are useless if they don't support your argument.

By the way, Okogie is 0.00 in drpm. He should be starting over Wiggins if we're trying to get some good defense going.
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Re: Towns last 5 games

Post by OliverMiller »

I'm sorry, we have to stop pigeonholing KAT. His defense is right around average. That's fine. I get traditionally center defense is important, but that's not his strength and you can't even expect it to be if you're going to ask him to be THE offense for 82 games.

Built a team around his strengths and weaknesses like Denver did with Jokic.
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