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Ideal PG for this roster
- Beef Supreme
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
If Tyus can consistently hit the 3 he's fine for this roster. Not ideal, but fine.
But he can't consistently do that.
But he can't consistently do that.
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
- Isaac Asimov
- Isaac Asimov
- Hornets
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Tyus is NOT an NBA starting point guard....Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:42 pm If Tyus can consistently hit the 3 he's fine for this roster. Not ideal, but fine.
But he can't consistently do that.
***THE REAL HORNETS HAS THOUSANDS OF POSTS and joined RC October 4, 2017!***
- Beef Supreme
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
If he shot 40% from 3, he'd be fine.Hornets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:53 pmTyus is NOT an NBA starting point guard....Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:42 pm If Tyus can consistently hit the 3 he's fine for this roster. Not ideal, but fine.
But he can't consistently do that.
So if he did something he doesn't, he'd be something he isn't. Funny how that works, eh?
“When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.”
- Isaac Asimov
- Isaac Asimov
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- ***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Sure, if you want to win 35 games a year.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
— Malcolm X
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- Hornets
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
OK....some of you just aren't listening....
Wiggy will always be lazy and will NOT develop into a star, and his contract is a killa.
Tyus is a nice little backup PG, but IS NOT and WILL NOT ever turn into a starting PG.
Wiggy will always be lazy and will NOT develop into a star, and his contract is a killa.
Tyus is a nice little backup PG, but IS NOT and WILL NOT ever turn into a starting PG.
***THE REAL HORNETS HAS THOUSANDS OF POSTS and joined RC October 4, 2017!***
- kilkenny
- Posts: 8659
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:53 am
Re: Ideal PG for this roster
He laid down last night and was fine with it. Passed up an open lane to the basket, anyone else see that? He's a straight out pussy on the court. I wish he had some kick-ass in his head. He doesn't.
- somuchyummy
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
i'm not in the "get a guy like john wall" camp. here's my reasons.
for better or worse, we've tied our wagon to KAT and wiggins. KAT has shown enough promise and growth that we shouldn't trade him - wiggins is someone we'd love to get value for in a trade, but no one will touch him with that immense contract. so.... in the meantime, we need to find out how to maximize the strengths of both of them. i don't think a ball dominant/shot dominant PG (like wall) would do that. with wall (or a guy like wall) on our team we'd see the same distribution problems that we see when rose plays with the starters. wall averages more shots per game than both KAT or wiggins - and if he were on the team, wiggins would most likely disappear as would any value we get from him as a scorer.
secondly, wall comes with such a huge pricetag that it would cripple our ability to add any other meaningful role players to the squad. quality depth would take a dive because we simply wouldn't have the cash to spend.
finally, i simply don't buy into the notion that the only way you can win is to have 3 stars (or superstars) on your team. having three stars with bad coaching and bad management isn't going to make a dent against the top teams in the league. i'd much rather be great to solid, positions 1 thru 10 - and playing for a great coach with a great system - than roll the dice on another pricey dude with hopes that three stars will automatically somehow make magic.
i think we should look for a starting PG that has a tyus-like game involving smarts, ball control, game management, distribution, etc - but who shoots better and is better than tyus defensively, athletically and sizewise. a player who would get the most out of his teammates, and not just have great individual stats - and, important to note, won't handcuff us even more financially. add wall, and i could see wiggins absolutely disappear. wiggins needs to score to keep his head in the game. add the kind of PG i'm hoping for, and i think wiggins could be a 20/5/3 guy with consistently acceptable to good D. which is at least getting something for our $140M.
for better or worse, we've tied our wagon to KAT and wiggins. KAT has shown enough promise and growth that we shouldn't trade him - wiggins is someone we'd love to get value for in a trade, but no one will touch him with that immense contract. so.... in the meantime, we need to find out how to maximize the strengths of both of them. i don't think a ball dominant/shot dominant PG (like wall) would do that. with wall (or a guy like wall) on our team we'd see the same distribution problems that we see when rose plays with the starters. wall averages more shots per game than both KAT or wiggins - and if he were on the team, wiggins would most likely disappear as would any value we get from him as a scorer.
secondly, wall comes with such a huge pricetag that it would cripple our ability to add any other meaningful role players to the squad. quality depth would take a dive because we simply wouldn't have the cash to spend.
finally, i simply don't buy into the notion that the only way you can win is to have 3 stars (or superstars) on your team. having three stars with bad coaching and bad management isn't going to make a dent against the top teams in the league. i'd much rather be great to solid, positions 1 thru 10 - and playing for a great coach with a great system - than roll the dice on another pricey dude with hopes that three stars will automatically somehow make magic.
i think we should look for a starting PG that has a tyus-like game involving smarts, ball control, game management, distribution, etc - but who shoots better and is better than tyus defensively, athletically and sizewise. a player who would get the most out of his teammates, and not just have great individual stats - and, important to note, won't handcuff us even more financially. add wall, and i could see wiggins absolutely disappear. wiggins needs to score to keep his head in the game. add the kind of PG i'm hoping for, and i think wiggins could be a 20/5/3 guy with consistently acceptable to good D. which is at least getting something for our $140M.
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
- Moses Scurry
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
That is why you roll the dice on a DSJ who can be had for a somewhat reasonable price I'd imagine.
Rather roll with DSJ/Okogie/Covington/Saric/Towns then continue down this "need Wiggins to not suck to be relevant" path we are on right now.
Rather roll with DSJ/Okogie/Covington/Saric/Towns then continue down this "need Wiggins to not suck to be relevant" path we are on right now.
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- KFAN Rube Chat Hall of Fame Member
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Are there any reports about what the Mavericks want? My guess is they want more than what we'd consider reasonable.Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:01 pm That is why you roll the dice on a DSJ who can be had for a somewhat reasonable price I'd imagine.
Rather roll with DSJ/Okogie/Covington/Saric/Towns then continue down this "need Wiggins to not suck to be relevant" path we are on right now.
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- kilkenny
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
How about Wiggins and Rose for Barnes and DSJ?
- Moses Scurry
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
I think mine was Wiggins and Tyus for DSJ and Barnes.
They get a cheap backup PG who can actually play and maybe Carlisle can fix Wiggins.
We get a roll of the dice in DSJ, only 2 years of Barnes massive contract but get rid of 5 years of Wiggins albatross.
Maybe Doncic can help Wiggins not be a POS.
Assume Teague leaves, keep Rose, try and resign Tolli.
DSJ/Rose
Okogie/???
Covington/???/Diop
Saric/Tolliver
Towns/Dieng
Last edited by Moses Scurry on Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- kilkenny
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
I put Rose in there to add value to the trade. Cheap contract and high impact player. They need something from moving DSJ, Tyus ain't it.Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:12 pmI think mine was Wiggins and Tyus for DSJ and Barnes.
They get a cheap backup PG who can actually play and maybe Carlisle can fix Wiggins.
We get a roll of the dice in DSJ, only 2 years of Barnes massive contract but get rid of 5 years of Wiggins albatross.
Maybe Doncic can help Wiggins not be a POS.
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- KFAN Rube Chat Hall of Fame Member
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Who would you rather have right now, straight up, Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins? Now include the contracts, same question.Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:12 pmI think mine was Wiggins and Tyus for DSJ and Barnes.
They get a cheap backup PG who can actually play and maybe Carlisle can fix Wiggins.
We get a roll of the dice in DSJ, only 2 years of Barnes massive contract but get rid of 5 years of Wiggins albatross.
Maybe Doncic can help Wiggins not be a POS.
Assume Teague leaves, keep Rose, try and resign Tolli.
DSJ/Rose
Okogie/???
Covington/???/Diop
Saric/Tolliver
Towns/Dieng
I don't see Dallas wanting Wiggins. If you want Smith Jr, it will start with Okogie, they might even say they need Saric.
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- ***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
The Mavs are not trading Barnes and DSJ for Tyus and Wiggins.HeHateMe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:29 pmWho would you rather have right now, straight up, Harrison Barnes or Andrew Wiggins? Now include the contracts, same question.Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:12 pmI think mine was Wiggins and Tyus for DSJ and Barnes.
They get a cheap backup PG who can actually play and maybe Carlisle can fix Wiggins.
We get a roll of the dice in DSJ, only 2 years of Barnes massive contract but get rid of 5 years of Wiggins albatross.
Maybe Doncic can help Wiggins not be a POS.
Assume Teague leaves, keep Rose, try and resign Tolli.
DSJ/Rose
Okogie/???
Covington/???/Diop
Saric/Tolliver
Towns/Dieng
I don't see Dallas wanting Wiggins. If you want Smith Jr, it will start with Okogie, they might even say they need Saric.
I would rather have Barnes at this point than Wiggins. I would deal Okogie for DSJ.
Saric does nothing for me.
I say Okogie/Wiggins/Saric for Barnes and DSJ. I don't want to trade Okogie but I make that move.
Can someone tell me what DSJs problem is in Dallas though? That may change my mind. If he's disgruntled playing for a good coach and one of the best owners, I can't imagine he would be happy here for long.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
- kilkenny
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
I'm not including Okogie for DSJ. Rather just look for something else. Okogie has a chance to be really good, can't give up on that.
- irishman89
- Posts: 5177
- Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:34 pm
Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Theres not one for sure keeper on this entire roster. Every player is either weak, dumb, old, flawed on one end of the floor, or a combo poo poo platter. The owner is trash. Contraction is the best option.
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- ***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Doesn't DSJ? I haven't seen a whole lot of him. I thought he was a star in the making last year.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Maybe, maybe not, but the thing with Okogie is he is a culture changing player, DSJ is not and that is why you don't swap the two.Sergeant Rubetube wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:04 pmDoesn't DSJ? I haven't seen a whole lot of him. I thought he was a star in the making last year.
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- ***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
What's DSJ problem in Dallas?SO_MONEY wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:08 pmMaybe, maybe not, but the thing with Okogie is he is a culture changing player, DSJ is not and that is why you don't swap the two.Sergeant Rubetube wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:04 pmDoesn't DSJ? I haven't seen a whole lot of him. I thought he was a star in the making last year.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
- somuchyummy
- Posts: 27155
- Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:14 pm
Re: Ideal PG for this roster
but as i said - this is the situation we're in contractwise. wiggins will be on this team for the next few years because his contract is such a stinker. so we have to find a way to maximize his production - because okogie or no okogie, you still don't want a healthy $26M a year player averaging 14 mpg off the bench.Moses Scurry wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:01 pm That is why you roll the dice on a DSJ who can be had for a somewhat reasonable price I'd imagine.
Rather roll with DSJ/Okogie/Covington/Saric/Towns then continue down this "need Wiggins to not suck to be relevant" path we are on right now.
DSJ is a dynamic player. and he's cheap for the meantime. i like what he's done to himself defensively since entering the league. but any PG who is averaging 4.8 apg after two years in the league (at nearly 30 mpg) has a score first mentality, is not a great distributor, and probably is the kind of PG that would continue to pave the path to wiggins' diminishing production.
i'm also leery of a guy who has problems playing next to a really great team first new talent like doncic. seriously? you snag a guy like doncic on your team and no matter what your position is, you should be happy as hell. unless you're more about you than the team. i'm reading stuff into this situation - but i can't figure out how egotistical you've got to be to find problems with sharing a court with a guy like doncic. so yeah - i'm leery about smith jr, especially between the ears. can we focus a bit on getting players whose first love is winning?
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
With MEM falling-out of the playoff picture, would they finally consider a tear down, & start over? If so, could you get Conley for expirings - possibly.
MEM - Teague ($19M/player option), Gibson ($14M/expiring), & Bayless ($8.6M/expiring)
MN - Conley ($30.5M/3 years)
MEM - Teague ($19M/player option), Gibson ($14M/expiring), & Bayless ($8.6M/expiring)
MN - Conley ($30.5M/3 years)
- somuchyummy
- Posts: 27155
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
it works for just teague and taj.Dubs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:19 pm With MEM falling-out of the playoff picture, would they finally consider a tear down, & start over? If so, could you get Conley for expirings - possibly.
MEM - Teague ($19M/player option), Gibson ($14M/expiring), & Bayless ($8.6M/expiring)
MN - Conley ($30.5M/3 years)
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
- LordNu
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Hmmm. I'm listening.Dubs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:19 pm With MEM falling-out of the playoff picture, would they finally consider a tear down, & start over? If so, could you get Conley for expirings - possibly.
MEM - Teague ($19M/player option), Gibson ($14M/expiring), & Bayless ($8.6M/expiring)
MN - Conley ($30.5M/3 years)
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- ***Official Gibby Award Winner - November 2018***
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
I'm not high on Conley because of his age but I would do that trade all day. I think they can do a lot better than that though.LordNu wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 pmHmmm. I'm listening.Dubs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:19 pm With MEM falling-out of the playoff picture, would they finally consider a tear down, & start over? If so, could you get Conley for expirings - possibly.
MEM - Teague ($19M/player option), Gibson ($14M/expiring), & Bayless ($8.6M/expiring)
MN - Conley ($30.5M/3 years)
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
— Malcolm X
The Puppet Master
- somuchyummy
- Posts: 27155
- Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:14 pm
Re: Ideal PG for this roster
"they" meaning memphis, right?
There is little difference between the memory of a real event and the memory of a dream.
- kilkenny
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Memphis will not trade Conley. He goes hand in hand with Gasol. They'd have to be thinking of trading him too.
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
They’d be getting off of 2.5 years & $75M - if they decided to rebuild, this would cause pause.Sergeant Rubetube wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:25 pmI'm not high on Conley because of his age but I would do that trade all day. I think they can do a lot better than that though.LordNu wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 pmHmmm. I'm listening.Dubs wrote: ↑Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:19 pm With MEM falling-out of the playoff picture, would they finally consider a tear down, & start over? If so, could you get Conley for expirings - possibly.
MEM - Teague ($19M/player option), Gibson ($14M/expiring), & Bayless ($8.6M/expiring)
MN - Conley ($30.5M/3 years)
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Re: Ideal PG for this roster
Marc Gasol and Mike Conley met with Grizzles owner Robert Pera, @ShamsCharania reports.
NBA trade deadline is Feb. 7