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There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

A place to discuss the MN Timberwolves
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salamander
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There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

112
123
140
91
112
125
120
125
116
111
120
114
121
113

Those are the points our team has given up in each game of the season. Our players are not good because they don't play defense.
KAT is a bust for this very reason.

It sucks that KAT is not and never will be a great player because he can't play defense but we will just have to live with that fact of life.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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kilkenny
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by kilkenny »

Didn't get your Spam for breakfast this morning?
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Dr. Linux
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by Dr. Linux »

I'd argue quite a few points. What do you consider great?

James Harden?
-

Got Root?
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flexbuffchest
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by flexbuffchest »

LeBron.
UnFadeable21 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by HeHateMe »

Towns is a bust? lol
thinktank wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by HeHateMe »

salamander post breakdown...

1495 main board
1531 purple chat
31 twins chat
16 wolves chat
thinktank wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
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flexbuffchest
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by flexbuffchest »

HeHateMe wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:53 am salamander post breakdown...

1495 main board
1531 purple chat
31 twins chat
16 wolves chat
And over half of his posts in WC have come in the past few days.

He isn't a fan of this team at all. Just came here to bitch about a product he doesn't even like.
UnFadeable21 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:55 pm Edwards Negatives:

Low IQ
Low Motor
Bad Shot Selection
Bad defense

Who does this remind you of?
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salamander
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

HeHateMe wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:53 am salamander post breakdown...

1495 main board
1531 purple chat
31 twins chat
16 wolves chat
:beer:

Over half of those wolves chat posts are just from today too.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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salamander
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

flexbuffchest wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:11 pm
HeHateMe wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:53 am salamander post breakdown...

1495 main board
1531 purple chat
31 twins chat
16 wolves chat
And over half of his posts in WC have come in the past few days.

He isn't a fan of this team at all. Just came here to bitch about a product he doesn't even like.
I do cheer for the Wolves (and watch). I'm just sick of this team sucking for so fucking long.
Now we're putting all our eggs in the KAT basket which means we'll continue to suck for a long time to come.

Trust me, I hope I'm wrong.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by HeHateMe »

salamander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 pm
flexbuffchest wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:11 pm
HeHateMe wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:53 am salamander post breakdown...

1495 main board
1531 purple chat
31 twins chat
16 wolves chat
And over half of his posts in WC have come in the past few days.

He isn't a fan of this team at all. Just came here to bitch about a product he doesn't even like.
I do cheer for the Wolves (and watch). I'm just sick of this team sucking for so fucking long.
Now we're putting all our eggs in the KAT basket which means we'll continue to suck for a long time to come.

Trust me, I hope I'm wrong.
Where do you want the eggs to go? Whose basket?
thinktank wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
boxter432
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by boxter432 »

spent 35 seconds over lunch looking at opponent PPG over the past few years

this year and last year OPP: no teams held opponents under 100ppg
2016-17: 2 teams (and Mem at 100)
2015-16: 6 teams
2014-15: 15 teams!
2013-14: 12 teams
......
2002-03: 24/29 teams!

wolves suck at defense, but also...nobody can stop anybody.
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salamander
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

HeHateMe wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:18 pm
salamander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 pm
flexbuffchest wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:11 pm

And over half of his posts in WC have come in the past few days.

He isn't a fan of this team at all. Just came here to bitch about a product he doesn't even like.
I do cheer for the Wolves (and watch). I'm just sick of this team sucking for so fucking long.
Now we're putting all our eggs in the KAT basket which means we'll continue to suck for a long time to come.

Trust me, I hope I'm wrong.
Where do you want the eggs to go? Whose basket?
That's the issue.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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salamander
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

boxter432 wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:02 pm spent 35 seconds over lunch looking at opponent PPG over the past few years

this year and last year OPP: no teams held opponents under 100ppg
2016-17: 2 teams (and Mem at 100)
2015-16: 6 teams
2014-15: 15 teams!
2013-14: 12 teams
......
2002-03: 24/29 teams!

wolves suck at defense, but also...nobody can stop anybody.
You've brought up a great point about the fundamental problems with the NBA. I don't want to hammer this issue because it's one of the more irritating issues in all of sports.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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irishman89
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by irishman89 »

Changes in the rules have also led to scores going through the ceiling.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by HeHateMe »

salamander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:03 pm
HeHateMe wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:18 pm
salamander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 pm

I do cheer for the Wolves (and watch). I'm just sick of this team sucking for so fucking long.
Now we're putting all our eggs in the KAT basket which means we'll continue to suck for a long time to come.

Trust me, I hope I'm wrong.
Where do you want the eggs to go? Whose basket?
That's the issue.
That's not the way this works. This team was 37-22 last year when healthy.
thinktank wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:15 am I’m a successful consultant for some of the biggest and best companies in the world. I tell you about systems architecture, not the other way around.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by RubeTube »

irishman89 wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:07 pm Changes in the rules have also led to scores going through the ceiling.
This!

I would agree with OP here but not anymore. Hardly anyone is playing defense in the NBA now. You must not watch anymore (Don't blame you) Those scores are the norm around the league.
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thinktank
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by thinktank »

Salamander finger painting the whole board in poop today.
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salamander
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:14 pm
irishman89 wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:07 pm Changes in the rules have also led to scores going through the ceiling.
This!

I would agree with OP here but not anymore. Hardly anyone is playing defense in the NBA now. You must not watch anymore (Don't blame you) Those scores are the norm around the league.
I watch less. I've never been a super fan or anything when it comes to basketball but I pay attention.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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salamander
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by salamander »

thinktank wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:59 pm Salamander finger painting the whole board in poop today.
OK. Sorry I offended you. I wasn't trying to and it obviously made you a bit emotional.
It's been 32 years since one of MN's four major sports teams has been to the Championship/Superbowl.
Every single year is failure until we win one. 4 teams, 32 years. That's roughly 128 consecutive failed seasons.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by RubeTube »

TrueBlue wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:35 pm Guys... there are literally more possessions these days. rebounds reset to 14 instead of 24 second clocks, 8 seconds to get over halfcourt instead of 10 etc.

You can't look at PPG and say noone plays defense. Thats too macro-level and idiotic.

Not to even mention the move from 2s to threes as a focal point of offenses.
Score were outrageous last year. I believe every team but one averaged over a 100 pts a game. I could be wrong but that is terrible basketball. They just made it worse this year.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by RubeTube »

salamander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:40 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:14 pm
irishman89 wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:07 pm Changes in the rules have also led to scores going through the ceiling.
This!

I would agree with OP here but not anymore. Hardly anyone is playing defense in the NBA now. You must not watch anymore (Don't blame you) Those scores are the norm around the league.
I watch less. I've never been a super fan or anything when it comes to basketball but I pay attention.
I was a super fan but I hardly watch anymore if it's not the Wolves.
“We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us.”
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by RubeTube »

TrueBlue wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:44 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:42 pm
Sally wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:35 pm Guys... there are literally more possessions these days. rebounds reset to 14 instead of 24 second clocks, 8 seconds to get over halfcourt instead of 10 etc.

You can't look at PPG and say noone plays defense. Thats too macro-level and idiotic.

Not to even mention the move from 2s to threes as a focal point of offenses.
Score were outrageous last year. I believe every team but one averaged over a 100 pts a game. I could be wrong but that is terrible basketball. They just made it worse this year.
look at 3s taken per game per team.

I bet thats on the rise as well.

Maybe use FG% as your baseline instead of points.
You are correct. I don't like all the 3 point shooting but that cat is out of the bag. I can understand why the game went this way but it's not fun to watch imo.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by thinktank »

salamander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:41 pm
thinktank wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:59 pm Salamander finger painting the whole board in poop today.
OK. Sorry I offended you. I wasn't trying to and it obviously made you a bit emotional.
:lol:

Keep trollin’, bro. I love it when people devolve themselves into a bit.

:thumbsup:
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by LordNu »

TrueBlue wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:35 pm Guys... there are literally more possessions these days. rebounds reset to 14 instead of 24 second clocks, 8 seconds to get over halfcourt instead of 10 etc.

You can't look at PPG and say noone plays defense. Thats too macro-level and idiotic.

Not to even mention the move from 2s to threes as a focal point of offenses.
I did not know that. :beer:
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by j2j »

TrueBlue wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:35 pm Guys... there are literally more possessions these days. rebounds reset to 14 instead of 24 second clocks, 8 seconds to get over halfcourt instead of 10 etc.

You can't look at PPG and say noone plays defense. Thats too macro-level and idiotic.

Not to even mention the move from 2s to threes as a focal point of offenses.
Shh... Don't ruin their ignorant ramblings with facts and logic.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by Beef Supreme »

Dirk
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by bubu dubu. »

The trend toward defense is like jumping off a cliff...and its not the players, its the rules...summed up perfectly by Benz and Pete last game where they were complaining about teams not playing defense, then less than a minute later, Brooklyn got called for two consecutive fouls on an inbound pass for impending 'freedom of movement' by simply bodying up some Wolves players. The rules just don't allow good defensive play anymore, and they have already minimized players who do such. You arent ever going to get players like Ben Wallace, Dikembe, Gary Payton, etc...because you just can't play physical anymore. Defense now is a swat at the rim where you can't even touch a guy's body on the way up to block a shot, or playing passing lanes for a steal. Literally, you can't body up a guy, or impend his movement. Defense now is just hustle...chasing a guy down on a fast break, or being long enough to block a shot or play a passing lane with no contact.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by zeitgeist »

bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:53 am The trend toward defense is like jumping off a cliff...and its not the players, its the rules...summed up perfectly by Benz and Pete last game where they were complaining about teams not playing defense, then less than a minute later, Brooklyn got called for two consecutive fouls on an inbound pass for impending 'freedom of movement' by simply bodying up some Wolves players. The rules just don't allow good defensive play anymore, and they have already minimized players who do such. You arent ever going to get players like Ben Wallace, Dikembe, Gary Payton, etc...because you just can't play physical anymore. Defense now is a swat at the rim where you can't even touch a guy's body on the way up to block a shot, or playing passing lanes for a steal. Literally, you can't body up a guy, or impend his movement. Defense now is just hustle...chasing a guy down on a fast break, or being long enough to block a shot or play a passing lane with no contact.
I mean, defense can be played still but yeah the impending freedom of movement rule change that occurred led to a very significant change in how effective offenses are this season even compared to last season. I definitely think the game needs to be a bit more balanced to allow defense to be more effective.
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Dan33185
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by Dan33185 »

Beef Supreme wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:52 pmDirk
That was the first name that popped into my head too. Reggie Miller wasn't that great of a defender if I remember right. Steph Curry is another one.
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Re: There is no such thing as a great player who doesn't play defense.

Post by Corre Ricky Corre »

Kyrie, Jokic, and Harden
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