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How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

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Herky
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How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Herky »

I have a not of friends who play guitar. Some aren't that good, but others to me sound really good. They can play all the rock/metal stuff including solos until the cows come home but what separates people from local band level to professional/semi professional. It's easy to tell the difference in sports but with music, what do people look for?

I know musicians are a dime a dozen but what's the thing that stands out who looking for someone who's considered really good?
Angry Waters
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Angry Waters »

So many variables when it comes to how good a musician really is. First of all, can they actually write their OWN material? There are lots of cover-band guys who can absolutely shred other people's stuff. But then ask them to play something original and it's like they're playing with 2 left arms. Secondly, just how badly do they want it? Do they have the drive to get in a van and go do 250 shows in a year? I would say that most people over the age of 22 don't want that type of lifestyle, without a guarantee of a much larger pay-off down-the-road. So, YES, you can be a professional/semi-professional level musician and simply be content playing smaller local stages. Or even your own basement, if that's what makes you happy. Lastly, just the pure subjectivity of music can make it difficult to determine what separates the pros from locals. I still don't get how The Ramones are considered an iconic band... Why did some great bands get by-passed time-and-time again by A&R guys? Only to be signed by the 25th guy who saw them. And then that band goes on to tour the world for the next 20 years. I've seen plenty of small/local bands over the last 20 years that I thought had a chance to go on to bigger and better things. Maybe they could have if all the breaks fell their way. Or maybe if it was 1975 or 1985. When it comes to the term "professional", it's a fairly small pie that LOTS of bands/musicians are trying to get a piece of. I love going on a good Youtube journey where I "get off the beaten path". I'm constantly amazed by how many great bands there are (still) out there. Bands that many of us will never hear of.

How do I paraphrase? Not sure, I guess. I'd say if a particular guitar player sounds good to your ears, he's a good guitar player! :D

You hit the nail on the head--Sports is easy. You can keep score. Bigger, faster, stronger always beats smaller, slower, weaker. We can have a discussion on who the 10 greatest QBs are and the pool of names listed will probably be limited to about 20. Have the same discussion about who the 10 greatest guitar players are and who knows how many names there would be.
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Moses Scurry
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Moses Scurry »

Two guys can play the same note or phrase, one sounds tasty, the other sounds flat. Some dudes just have musicality in their finger tips, it's quite the thing. Vibrato, phrasing, etc.

But I would suspect the non-player wouldn't really notice. A guitar player gets a smile on his face when he hears that dude with the tasty licks and musicality. Even in shred, there are robots that can do anything on a guitar but it doesn't evoke anything, but others compose and use those skills to create an emotion.
realjazzguy
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by realjazzguy »

originality is huge, and rare in a world with literally a million players. Willie Nelson is no virtuoso but one note and you know it's him.

The blues genre, which started out as a way to tell stories, has turned into a Guitar Olympics; ravaged by guys who think "the more notes, the better."
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Herky
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Herky »

Good stuff guys. Thanks for the replies.
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Beef Supreme
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Beef Supreme »

Moses Scurry wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:05 am Two guys can play the same note or phrase, one sounds tasty, the other sounds flat. Some dudes just have musicality in their finger tips, it's quite the thing. Vibrato, phrasing, etc.

But I would suspect the non-player wouldn't really notice. A guitar player gets a smile on his face when he hears that dude with the tasty licks and musicality. Even in shred, there are robots that can do anything on a guitar but it doesn't evoke anything, but others compose and use those skills to create an emotion.
I don't disagree. I'd just add that the emotional component is completely subjective.


Adam Jones (Tool) is a really, really precise guitarist. For some people, that means "soulless" and "mathematical." To others, he's "impeccable" and "innovative."

It's all in the ear of the beholder.


Personally, I've always been an Angus Young aficionado. A bit on the sloppy side sometimes. Not overly concerned with innovation. But as much as any other rock guitarist, you feel every note he plays. In my opinion, of course.
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Qman65
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Qman65 »

[quote=Herky post_id=494789 time=1546537076 user_id=497]
I have a not of friends who play guitar. Some aren't that good, but others to me sound really good. They can play all the rock/metal stuff including solos until the cows come home but what separates people from local band level to professional/semi professional. It's easy to tell the difference in sports but with music, what do people look for?

I know musicians are a dime a dozen but what's the thing that stands out who looking for someone who's considered really good?
[/quote

If you have a great guitar player who can play Eruption on the piano, I'd say keep him.
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Qman65
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Qman65 »

Herky wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:37 am I have a not of friends who play guitar. Some aren't that good, but others to me sound really good. They can play all the rock/metal stuff including solos until the cows come home but what separates people from local band level to professional/semi professional. It's easy to tell the difference in sports but with music, what do people look for?

I know musicians are a dime a dozen but what's the thing that stands out who looking for someone who's considered really good?
If you have a great guitar player who can play Eruption on the piano, I'd say keep him.
"That's like uh, your opinion man"!
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somuchyummy
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by somuchyummy »

anybody here like mateo mancuso? holy shit, is all i can say. his right hand alone, holy shit.
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Bon Scott
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Bon Scott »

The difference is between Neil Young ans Stephen Stills.
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cmd24
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by cmd24 »

Moses Scurry wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:05 am Two guys can play the same note or phrase, one sounds tasty, the other sounds flat. Some dudes just have musicality in their finger tips, it's quite the thing. Vibrato, phrasing, etc.

But I would suspect the non-player wouldn't really notice. A guitar player gets a smile on his face when he hears that dude with the tasty licks and musicality. Even in shred, there are robots that can do anything on a guitar but it doesn't evoke anything, but others compose and use those skills to create an emotion.
David Gilmour comes to mind. His solos feel about as powerful as you can get. I've seen Brit Floyd, and while they are extremely good musicians, and the solo in Comfortably Numb is dynamite, it doesn't feel the same as Gilmour.
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Qman65
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Qman65 »

How about separating the good from the great? Who's good and who's great? Let's have that conversation.Who cares about average? If you are average, go home and get to good, then get great.
"That's like uh, your opinion man"!
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Slap Shot
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Slap Shot »

Check out Todd Park Mohr. One small sample that kicks in around 3:00 and again at 4:00. He rarely does long drawn out solos but his sound just gets to me.


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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Jaamz »

Qman65 wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:00 am How about separating the good from the great? Who's good and who's great? Let's have that conversation.Who cares about average? If you are average, go home and get to good, then get great.
This may be the dumbest thing i've ever read from you......and their have been many more to choose from..
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Qman65
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Qman65 »

Jaamz wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:07 pm
Qman65 wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:00 am How about separating the good from the great? Who's good and who's great? Let's have that conversation.Who cares about average? If you are average, go home and get to good, then get great.
This may be the dumbest thing i've ever read from you......and their have been many more to choose from..
You wouldn't know a good or great guitar player from your momma's ass. :finger: I do, you don't. Who's your favorite?
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Tommy_Hawk
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Tommy_Hawk »

To me, it all comes down to artistry. Within that is originality and proficiency.

Are they good? Do they push the envelope. Do they test new concepts until mastery? Do they have their own sound? Do they have memorable riffs?

Page, Hendrix, Harrison, Clapton, Gilmour and Townshend come to mind when I think of top-tier musicians based on my criteria.
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by cmd24 »

Tommy_Hawk wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:53 pm To me, it all comes down to artistry. Within that is originality and proficiency.

Are they good? Do they push the envelope. Do they test new concepts until mastery? Do they have their own sound? Do they have memorable riffs?

Page, Hendrix, Harrison, Clapton, Gilmour and Townshend come to mind when I think of top-tier musicians based on my criteria.
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Tommy_Hawk
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Tommy_Hawk »

cmd24 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:51 pm
Tommy_Hawk wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:53 pm To me, it all comes down to artistry. Within that is originality and proficiency.

Are they good? Do they push the envelope. Do they test new concepts until mastery? Do they have their own sound? Do they have memorable riffs?

Page, Hendrix, Harrison, Clapton, Gilmour and Townshend come to mind when I think of top-tier musicians based on my criteria.
Tom Morello
Sure. Morello is in there, among others, like Navarro, McCready, Cantrell, and Greenwood.

Then there are the metal guys, which I'll let you guys decide since Im not a fan, and am in no way an agency on that genre.
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by cmd24 »

Tommy_Hawk wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:59 am
cmd24 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:51 pm
Tommy_Hawk wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:53 pm To me, it all comes down to artistry. Within that is originality and proficiency.

Are they good? Do they push the envelope. Do they test new concepts until mastery? Do they have their own sound? Do they have memorable riffs?

Page, Hendrix, Harrison, Clapton, Gilmour and Townshend come to mind when I think of top-tier musicians based on my criteria.
Tom Morello
Sure. Morello is in there, among others, like Navarro, McCready, Cantrell, and Greenwood.

Then there are the metal guys, which I'll let you guys decide since Im not a fan, and am in no way an agency on that genre.
We can let lumpy decide who fits that bill. He'll argue anyone that any of us put out there, anyway.

One that surprised me was Brian May. He's always been considered one of the great guitar players. I'm not saying he isn't, but his is a sound where I don't necessarily look at it as fitting that innovative sound, or anything. He's just an extremely great player within the confines of the band. Granted, I'm just finally starting to dive in deeper on Queen material, so I can easily be missing stuff. May has that recognizable sound, though.
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Tommy_Hawk »

cmd24 wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:04 pm
Tommy_Hawk wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:59 am
cmd24 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:51 pm

Tom Morello
Sure. Morello is in there, among others, like Navarro, McCready, Cantrell, and Greenwood.

Then there are the metal guys, which I'll let you guys decide since Im not a fan, and am in no way an agency on that genre.
We can let lumpy decide who fits that bill. He'll argue anyone that any of us put out there, anyway.

One that surprised me was Brian May. He's always been considered one of the great guitar players. I'm not saying he isn't, but his is a sound where I don't necessarily look at it as fitting that innovative sound, or anything. He's just an extremely great player within the confines of the band. Granted, I'm just finally starting to dive in deeper on Queen material, so I can easily be missing stuff. May has that recognizable sound, though.
Yeah, for sure. When you compare May's work in Stone Cold Crazy to his work in Killer Queen, it's like "Whoa", this man has some versatility.
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by zeitgeist »

I think you'll find that technical competency is not all that special. I mean, it's an important baseline because unless you have a good appreciation for mechanical skill and music theory it's going to limit your writing, but there are a lot of people out there that can play solos. What separates musicians is their ability to write things that are innovative and unique, the ability to craft their own style where you know who is playing just by listening to them.
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Moses Scurry
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Re: How can you seperate an average and good guitar player?

Post by Moses Scurry »

I think you're confusing song writing and being able to play a guitar. Two people could write the same exact thing note for not, one could sound great, one could sound like crap.

There is a feel that good guitar players have and you can hear it.

And I'm not talking about mechanical dexterity or anything, but some people have control over the guitar and just sound better than others.
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