Groups that have changed members...what does it do to them?

[cmd24]

This kinda sorta broke out in the Fleetwood Mac thread, so I thought I'd start it's own thread.

There are numerous bands that have changed their lineups, to varying results. Fleetwood Mac is one that you could argue would not be the same without Lindsey Buckingham. What are some others?

I'll start on one that Da Gas Man brought up...Journey. I saw them with the dude that they had after Steve Perry, but before the Philipino, Arnell. The band never missed a beat without Perry being the front man, and I'd argue they sounded every bit as good. However, I'm not sure that they ever made any albums with him? I'd argue that Journey was every bit as good, but I'd also have to agree that they weren't as big without Perry.

Ready, go!

[Lightning]

I think Arnel has been great for extending Journey's touring. For a time he split vocals with the drummer. I don't think they wouldn't be any bigger with Perry because I think their ship has sailed. The new Perry stuff is gawd awful, btw. The songs are crap and his voice is broke.

[Slap Shot]

Fuck anyone after DLR. Van Hagar just blow.

AC/DC did pretty damn well after Bon.

The Beatles never missed Pete Best nor Stuart Sutcliffe.

Phil Collins ruined Genesis!!

The Stones obviously survived Brian Jones but I'd like to have seen what they could have done had he lived longer.

There's a lot of talkers on this pretty cool topic - have to thing some more.

[bubu dubu.]

Pink Floyd with Syd Barrett.

They hardly skipped a beat, and even seemed to get more popular after he got kicked out. Got to give him a lot of credit for being the founder of the band, and giving them their sound. Unfortunate story for him.

[bubu dubu.]

Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave

Debatable if they should be included here, as the members of RAtM rebranded with a new name, and Cornell at vocals.

[cmd24]

Fuck anyone after DLR. Van Hagar just blow.

AC/DC did pretty damn well after Bon.

The Beatles never missed Pete Best nor Stuart Sutcliffe.

Phil Collins ruined Genesis!!

The Stones obviously survived Brian Jones but I'd like to have seen what they could have done had he lived longer.

There's a lot of talkers on this pretty cool topic - have to thing some more.

I don't know, right off hand, but how early in to the Beatle's career did they ditch Best and go with Ringo? I was thinking it was before they really hit it big?

[cmd24]

Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave

Debatable if they should be included here, as the members of RAtM rebranded with a new name, and Cornell at vocals.

That's a tough one. You could argue that they'd be a "supergroup", given their respective careers, but, they did have a couple of albums together, so it wasn't really a one-off type of deal. You could probably put Creed/Alter Bridge (I know...we're talking about Creed, LOL) in that same discussion. Creed minus Scott Stapp is basically Alter Bridge, but not stuck behind that clown. Much better with Myles Kennedy, and a much stronger band.

I love Cornell's work with Soundgarden, and absolutely love RAtM, but I always had a hard time with Audioslave. I think I need De LaRocha's voice with Morello's guitar...nothing else sounds right, to me.

[bubu dubu.]

Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave

Debatable if they should be included here, as the members of RAtM rebranded with a new name, and Cornell at vocals.

That's a tough one. You could argue that they'd be a "supergroup", given their respective careers, but, they did have a couple of albums together, so it wasn't really a one-off type of deal. You could probably put Creed/Alter Bridge (I know...we're talking about Creed, LOL) in that same discussion. Creed minus Scott Stapp is basically Alter Bridge, but not stuck behind that clown. Much better with Myles Kennedy, and a much stronger band.

I love Cornell's work with Soundgarden, and absolutely love RAtM, but I always had a hard time with Audioslave. I think I need De LaRocha's voice with Morello's guitar...nothing else sounds right, to me.

Alter Bridge?

Your views on Soundgarden, RAtM and Audioslave are my very own. Could just never get on board with Audioslave, even though I liked all involved.

[LordNu]

Supergroups from the grunge era: Mad Season and Temple of the Dog.

BTW Matt Cameron in Pearl Jam makes complete sense.

[cmd24]

Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave

Debatable if they should be included here, as the members of RAtM rebranded with a new name, and Cornell at vocals.

That's a tough one. You could argue that they'd be a "supergroup", given their respective careers, but, they did have a couple of albums together, so it wasn't really a one-off type of deal. You could probably put Creed/Alter Bridge (I know...we're talking about Creed, LOL) in that same discussion. Creed minus Scott Stapp is basically Alter Bridge, but not stuck behind that clown. Much better with Myles Kennedy, and a much stronger band.

I love Cornell's work with Soundgarden, and absolutely love RAtM, but I always had a hard time with Audioslave. I think I need De LaRocha's voice with Morello's guitar...nothing else sounds right, to me.

Alter Bridge?

Your views on Soundgarden, RAtM and Audioslave are my very own. Could just never get on board with Audioslave, even though I liked all involved.

Are you questioning who Alter Bridge is, or following up my joke about Creed? Just curious.

[bubu dubu.]

That's a tough one. You could argue that they'd be a "supergroup", given their respective careers, but, they did have a couple of albums together, so it wasn't really a one-off type of deal. You could probably put Creed/Alter Bridge (I know...we're talking about Creed, LOL) in that same discussion. Creed minus Scott Stapp is basically Alter Bridge, but not stuck behind that clown. Much better with Myles Kennedy, and a much stronger band.

I love Cornell's work with Soundgarden, and absolutely love RAtM, but I always had a hard time with Audioslave. I think I need De LaRocha's voice with Morello's guitar...nothing else sounds right, to me.

Alter Bridge?

Your views on Soundgarden, RAtM and Audioslave are my very own. Could just never get on board with Audioslave, even though I liked all involved.

Are you questioning who Alter Bridge is, or following up my joke about Creed? Just curious.

Ive never heard of Alter Bridge.

[cmd24]

Alter Bridge?

Your views on Soundgarden, RAtM and Audioslave are my very own. Could just never get on board with Audioslave, even though I liked all involved.

Are you questioning who Alter Bridge is, or following up my joke about Creed? Just curious.

Ive never heard of Alter Bridge.

Gotcha. They aren't bad. Myles Kennedy fronts them, and is also the lead singer for Slash's band. Pretty talented dude. Also had a cameo in the movie Rock Star. The rest of the band is made up from the guys from Creed. Myles is a really good guitar player,, as well as one of the best vocalists out there right now, and Mark Tremonti is pretty underrated as far as guitar players go. I think the biggest knock on these guys is that they made up Creed. It's nothing cutting edge, but they have some good tunes.


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[SpitFireGuy]

I think it depends on the sound the fan expects. I like VH with DLR or Sammy. Loved Soundgarden and RATM, but never could get into Audioslave. I think the change in vocalist matters the most IMO.

What bands became better with a new vocalist? I know some, but most of you would be "who the f*ck are they" as they are not contenders in the main stream of radio play.

[Qman65]

Accept had 3 albums recently that did well with out Udo. Priest is still doing well without KK and Glenn. The latest album IMO is fucking awesome!


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[Beef Supreme]

Bruce Dickinson took Iron Maiden places that Paul Di'Anno could never have. When he left and they plugged in Blaze Bayley, they put out their two worst albums by far. Dickinson comes back and they've had a nice resurgence; a very good 2nd act for their careers that many bands don't get.

Underrated in that mix is that guitarist Adrian Smith also left Maiden just before Dickinson did and returned with him in 1999. Smith is massively important to their sound.

[Beef Supreme]

Would Cliff Burton ever have let Metallica release "Load?"

[Qman65]

Would Cliff Burton ever have let Metallica release "Load?"

Hell no! He's still pissed about how shitty that record was from the grave.

[cmd24]

Would Cliff Burton ever have let Metallica release "Load?"

Metallica is an interesting one to the discussion, because there is such a strong personality dynamic to their sound. I tend to believe they never would've released Load or Re-Load with Burton. However, I read somewhere (years ago, I think in some rock mag), that Jason was a big reason they released those two. I find that laughable that anyone would think they gave Newstad that much power. Hell, they never even paid him what they paid Rob, when he first joined.

It's easy to argue that they became a bigger band after Burton, but most people won't argue that they were better before.

[Bull]

Fuck anyone after DLR. Van Hagar just blow.

AC/DC did pretty damn well after Bon.

The Beatles never missed Pete Best nor Stuart Sutcliffe.

Phil Collins ruined Genesis!!

The Stones obviously survived Brian Jones but I'd like to have seen what they could have done had he lived longer.

There's a lot of talkers on this pretty cool topic - have to thing some more.

I don't know, right off hand, but how early in to the Beatle's career did they ditch Best and go with Ringo? I was thinking it was before they really hit it big?

Stuart left before they ever recorded anything if I remember right. Same for Pete Best.

[Bull]

Would Cliff Burton ever have let Metallica release "Load?"

I think he would've. Just look at how much more musical Ride The Lightning was to Kill 'Em All. That's Cliff's influence. Realize that the only writing credit Burton had on KEA was Anesthesia. Compare that to the songs he had credit on for RTL (Fade to Black, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Creeping Death, Call of Ktulu). He probably had the most diverse musical taste of the group. James, Lars and Kirk have talked about how Cliff would listen to Jethro Tull, ZZ Top, The Police, etc. The other guys were mostly just listening to NWOBHM bands at the time.

The point I'm making is that Cliff was far from being the hard core metal guy in the group. In fact, I think he would've been all for the direction change the band took post Justice.

[Bull]

Would Cliff Burton ever have let Metallica release "Load?"

Hell no! He's still pissed about how shitty that record was from the grave.

Load and ReLoad get a lot of hate. Some of it is justified (Mama Said can fuck right off).

That being said, you could combine the best tracks from both albums and come up with a pretty decent Metallica album. Outlaw Torn is one of my favorite songs by them. Fixxer and Bleeding Me are great. King Nothing and Memory Remains are solid. Fuel is crowd pleaser to this day.

It may be more mainstream but it wasn't the big pile of shit that many claim it to be.

You want to talk about shitty Metallica albums...look no further than St. Anger. No fucking solos? Are you kidding me? What did Kirk actually do on that album? And what metal drummer would dare commit the sin of disconnecting the fucking snare?! Shame on you Lars! And don't get me started on the abomination that is Lulu. I like to pretend that never happened.

[Bull]

Would Cliff Burton ever have let Metallica release "Load?"

Metallica is an interesting one to the discussion, because there is such a strong personality dynamic to their sound. I tend to believe they never would've released Load or Re-Load with Burton. However, I read somewhere (years ago, I think in some rock mag), that Jason was a big reason they released those two. I find that laughable that anyone would think they gave Newstad that much power. Hell, they never even paid him what they paid Rob, when he first joined.

It's easy to argue that they became a bigger band after Burton, but most people won't argue that they were better before.

Newsted had very little power. I think James was the driving force behind those albums. Lyrically, some of his most personal stuff was on Load and Reload.

[Tony Bongwater]

Misfits without Danzig sucked.

I still don't like Cantrell calling the current band alice in chains. Staley or GTFO. Same with the Bennington STP version though I get it.

Theres no GnR without slash.

[Bull]

Motley Crue kicked Vince Neil out of the band for a while. They released an album with the new guy that didn't do so well so they rehired Vince Neil.

[Earl Camembert]

Adam Lambert and Queen = money grab off the coattails of American Idol.

[Ski]

I may lose my Music chat card for this one, but this was the 80's... But loved Kansas with Steve Walsh, never the same after.

Think he just one solo album that I recently found on vinyl


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[EnLiteEndOne]

Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave

Debatable if they should be included here, as the members of RAtM rebranded with a new name, and Cornell at vocals.

I think RATM & Prophets of Rage are the proper comparison. IMO, Chuck D doesn't fit with Tom, Tim, & Brad nearly as well as Zach.