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Kill ripped PJ to shreds

A place to discuss Gopher Spots
JPM
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Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by JPM »

Love it.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Miley Cyrus »

Too bad he doesn't have an axe to grind.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by RubeTube »

Miley Cyrus wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:32 pm Too bad he doesn't have an axe to grind.
It sure wasn't Paul Bunyans axe. Jerry couldn't get his hands on it :lol:

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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by feekdogg »

He's not wrong.
But there was no reason to say it.
Fleck is a selfish turd. So's Kill. That's the standard for about 95% of college football coaches and 100% of successful college coaches.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by RubeTube »

feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 pm He's not wrong.
But there was no reason to say it.
Fleck is a selfish turd. So's Kill. That's the standard for about 95% of college football coaches and 100% of successful college coaches.
Why do you say this about PJ?
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by feekdogg »

Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:30 pm
feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 pm He's not wrong.
But there was no reason to say it.
Fleck is a selfish turd. So's Kill. That's the standard for about 95% of college football coaches and 100% of successful college coaches.
Why do you say this about PJ?
Plastering his slogan all over the place is a good start. The guy took the OC job at NIU and quit the next day to go work with Schiano. That's not out of the ordinary, but these guys are constantly looking out for themselves and trying to climb the ladder. It's part of the gig.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by RubeTube »

feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:39 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:30 pm
feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 pm He's not wrong.
But there was no reason to say it.
Fleck is a selfish turd. So's Kill. That's the standard for about 95% of college football coaches and 100% of successful college coaches.
Why do you say this about PJ?
Plastering his slogan all over the place is a good start. The guy took the OC job at NIU and quit the next day to go work with Schiano. That's not out of the ordinary, but these guys are constantly looking out for themselves and trying to climb the ladder. It's part of the gig.
True. I think Fleck is has a lot of skeletons in his closet. Just wanted to know your thoughts, Feek. I have been trying to uncover the truths of Philip John for awhile now.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by full force five »

Jerry has zero credibility. Sorry. He retired from coaching only to come back multiple times. I get it as an assistant but they guys ego is just as big.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by jffl_commish »

Jerry is one bitter, old man. He's still pissed they canned his boy Claeys. Whether PJ came here or not, Claeys would still not be the coach here anymore. That disaster was written all over the wall, and good on Coyle to make the bold move to end it early.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by jffl_commish »

Ol' Country Jer started Mitch Leidner for four years. He has no credibility with any take ever.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by full force five »

Jerry has zero credibility once with retired for health reasons then started coaching again. His ego is just as big.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Slap Shot »

feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:39 pm
Sergeant Rubetube wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:30 pm
feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 pm He's not wrong.
But there was no reason to say it.
Fleck is a selfish turd. So's Kill. That's the standard for about 95% of college football coaches and 100% of successful college coaches.
Why do you say this about PJ?
Plastering his slogan all over the place is a good start. The guy took the OC job at NIU and quit the next day to go work with Schiano. That's not out of the ordinary, but these guys are constantly looking out for themselves and trying to climb the ladder. It's part of the gig.
Not sure that's such a big deal nor representative of ego. He's trying to build a culture and the culture isn't, "I'm PJ Fleck". He's been successful previously and the team took a step forward last season - albeit after some big stumbles early on.

And he's already climbed the ladder - most successful BT football coaches don't leave the conference voluntarily. That dick from Wisconsin tried and failed wonderfully at Arkansas. Who knows if Fleck would do the same but he's got everything he needs at Minnesota if he continues to win and I believe the University itself finally is on board with doing everything it can to compete regularly with IA and WI. We'll see.

If he does have an ego didn't you say he's no different than 95% of Div I coaches? Then why bother talking about it especially negatively? Seems a bit redundant like saying water is wet. No shit?

Looking forward to next season.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Hornets »

Kill's outburst is outrageous. Sour grapes no doubt. LOSER
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Ask Not »

Poor Kill, still the self-pitying underdog. No heroes in this argument.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Cripes »

Not sure if anyone has been better at bringing the butthurt in this town as ol Jerry Kill.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Slap Shot »

Somewhat out of context since it's from another forum, but a response to the question of, "Why would Jerry have it out for PJ?"...
Well it depends who you ask. The most widely accepted reason publicly is Kill is upset with how TC was ousted. There is way more to it though (like not getting the Football Operations Job) and the truth is it may go back to when Fleck was on his staff at NIU. (Fleck was one of the few that stayed when Kill took over) Fleck left to go to Rutgers and that seems to have set Kill off. (that is why he talks about his first marriage which is just odd to talk about) Whats funny is Fleck only says great things about Kill and has since Day 1. Go back to his PC it is about how much he learned from him and how hard it was to leave. (which is probably why Fleck supports his coaches finding jobs)

If you guys remember Kim Royston his father posts on Ghole...and has off and on since Kill was hired. He has always hated Jerry Kill from the word jump. He has no reason to Kim started and was never at odds with Kill...he just always thought Kill was a disingenuous person who behind the scenes was an ego maniac. Would talk about how two faced he was and give examples of how what he would say about players and coaches in interviews was completely contradicted behind the scenes and how he threw players under the bus. (when players left after Kill took over for Brew he would tell us how it really went down...it often wasnt pretty) He got a lot of crap obviously when Kill was coach and really has stayed quiet of late except when Kill and TC attack the U or Fleck. He btw also hates Fleck's schtick but thinks he is a much better coach than Kill. And again he has no axe to grind because Kim was a starter.

As I look back, and seeing how much Fleck is trying to enhance the caliber of athlete at the U, it makes me wonder if the rumors I would hear of Kill being a lazy recruiter were true. I always figured it was hyperbole, people who wished we could be Wisconsin never realizing no one wants to come here. Truth seems to be though Kill recruited the U like a MAC school (the old joke being he would offer anyone who got an offer from Western Michigan) which is why we played that way. Much like the MAC we could beat a helmet school every so often, but sustained success against them was going to be problematic.

BTW Kill's rant is being written about all over the place...and the only one who seems to think it was a good idea or even speak positively about it at all is...surprise surprise Reusse. Apparently 'Ol Country Jer is believable when he is no longer coach and is ripping the new coach. Reusse is so dang predictable which is why no one listens to his radio shows or whatever he does now.

Fleck will never be my style...I will never be down with his kitchy phrases or whatever. (outside of Row the Boat which I like for many reasons) But I think he is who he is and as long as the team does well and the players love him he is my coach. It can be frustrating to watch the growing pains (that Illinois Game was brutal) but when you look at the wins there is more there than meets the eye. Fleck is also willing to make the changes Kill and Staff never were. He will pull a QB who isnt playing well, he will put in a guy like Fa'alele (I hope I was close on that) even if it burns his red shirt. He will fire a coach who is holding the team back. He will take a chance and let the players prove they are up to the challenge. Kill and Mason never did that...they were too afraid of being burned. They felt they had zero margin for error so play it smart, play it close and eek out a victory. I think he is arrogant enough to believe that a team filled with his players coached in his style can beat anyone in the Big Ten. Whats more, I think he has convinced the players of the same thing. It may blow up in his face, but it is definitely different than anything I have seen since I was too young to know the difference. (that is what Holtz did) I think that is also why a lot of people dont like him. If he is right though...people will change their minds fast and rewrite history.
fwiw
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by bubu dubu. »

Claey's team ran a train on a girl who felt like it was rape, and Claey's stood with his guys, saying he's never been prouder.

PJ says he needs to change the culture.

Jerry gets pissed.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by feekdogg »

Slap Shot wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:09 pm Somewhat out of context since it's from another forum, but a response to the question of, "Why would Jerry have it out for PJ?"...
Well it depends who you ask. The most widely accepted reason publicly is Kill is upset with how TC was ousted. There is way more to it though (like not getting the Football Operations Job) and the truth is it may go back to when Fleck was on his staff at NIU. (Fleck was one of the few that stayed when Kill took over) Fleck left to go to Rutgers and that seems to have set Kill off. (that is why he talks about his first marriage which is just odd to talk about) Whats funny is Fleck only says great things about Kill and has since Day 1. Go back to his PC it is about how much he learned from him and how hard it was to leave. (which is probably why Fleck supports his coaches finding jobs)

If you guys remember Kim Royston his father posts on Ghole...and has off and on since Kill was hired. He has always hated Jerry Kill from the word jump. He has no reason to Kim started and was never at odds with Kill...he just always thought Kill was a disingenuous person who behind the scenes was an ego maniac. Would talk about how two faced he was and give examples of how what he would say about players and coaches in interviews was completely contradicted behind the scenes and how he threw players under the bus. (when players left after Kill took over for Brew he would tell us how it really went down...it often wasnt pretty) He got a lot of crap obviously when Kill was coach and really has stayed quiet of late except when Kill and TC attack the U or Fleck. He btw also hates Fleck's schtick but thinks he is a much better coach than Kill. And again he has no axe to grind because Kim was a starter.

As I look back, and seeing how much Fleck is trying to enhance the caliber of athlete at the U, it makes me wonder if the rumors I would hear of Kill being a lazy recruiter were true. I always figured it was hyperbole, people who wished we could be Wisconsin never realizing no one wants to come here. Truth seems to be though Kill recruited the U like a MAC school (the old joke being he would offer anyone who got an offer from Western Michigan) which is why we played that way. Much like the MAC we could beat a helmet school every so often, but sustained success against them was going to be problematic.

BTW Kill's rant is being written about all over the place...and the only one who seems to think it was a good idea or even speak positively about it at all is...surprise surprise Reusse. Apparently 'Ol Country Jer is believable when he is no longer coach and is ripping the new coach. Reusse is so dang predictable which is why no one listens to his radio shows or whatever he does now.

Fleck will never be my style...I will never be down with his kitchy phrases or whatever. (outside of Row the Boat which I like for many reasons) But I think he is who he is and as long as the team does well and the players love him he is my coach. It can be frustrating to watch the growing pains (that Illinois Game was brutal) but when you look at the wins there is more there than meets the eye. Fleck is also willing to make the changes Kill and Staff never were. He will pull a QB who isnt playing well, he will put in a guy like Fa'alele (I hope I was close on that) even if it burns his red shirt. He will fire a coach who is holding the team back. He will take a chance and let the players prove they are up to the challenge. Kill and Mason never did that...they were too afraid of being burned. They felt they had zero margin for error so play it smart, play it close and eek out a victory. I think he is arrogant enough to believe that a team filled with his players coached in his style can beat anyone in the Big Ten. Whats more, I think he has convinced the players of the same thing. It may blow up in his face, but it is definitely different than anything I have seen since I was too young to know the difference. (that is what Holtz did) I think that is also why a lot of people dont like him. If he is right though...people will change their minds fast and rewrite history.
fwiw
Background on the Kim Royston stuff. Kim's father (used to call into PA and Dubay all the time as Chris from Brooklyn Park) hates Jerry because he wasn't around for Kim's Pro day and thinks he didn't do enough to get Kim to the NFL. Kim was a very good DB for the Gophers during his short time here, but there's little chance he was ever going to play in the NFL.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Da Gas Man »

feekdogg wrote: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 pm He's not wrong.
But there was no reason to say it.
Fleck is a selfish turd. So's Kill. That's the standard for about 95% of college football coaches and 100% of successful college coaches.
As someone who has no feelings about the gophers (not from Minnesota and never attended the school), Fleck rubs me the wrong way every time I hear him on the radio. That being said, Kill does not come off looking good here.

It's not a simple equation that if Kill is right about Fleck, then Kill looks good and he only looks bad if he is wrong about Fleck.

He can be 100% correct about Fleck and he still comes off looking bitter and petty.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by hategreenticemase »

Ask Not wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:10 am Poor Kill, still the self-pitying underdog. No heroes in this argument.
This, and there is plenty of ego to go round, thats for damn sure.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by JPM »

jffl_commish wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:08 am Ol' Country Jer started Mitch Leidner for four years. He has no credibility with any take ever.
Mitch won a lot of games.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by Hornets »

Wonder if PJ will take the high road and not even respond....or will he jab O'l Jerry like he deserves to be!
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by beetlebum71 »

People from the outside can say what they want about Fleck and are entitled to their opinion, but the kids he recruits seem like they would take a bullet for him. That's what's it's all about in college football. The only people who need to believe in you are the kids.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by DC4MVP »

beetlebum71 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:28 pm People from the outside can say what they want about Fleck and are entitled to their opinion, but the kids he recruits seem like they would take a bullet for him. That's what's it's all about in college football. The only people who need to believe in you are the kids.
Sadly, in this situation it's more like Fleck promising the kids they're going to go to Disney Land when they're instead going to the dentist.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by bubu dubu. »

DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:44 pm
beetlebum71 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:28 pm People from the outside can say what they want about Fleck and are entitled to their opinion, but the kids he recruits seem like they would take a bullet for him. That's what's it's all about in college football. The only people who need to believe in you are the kids.
Sadly, in this situation it's more like Fleck promising the kids they're going to go to Disney Land when they're instead going to the dentist.
That's recruiting for you, and PJ should not be knocked for it.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by DC4MVP »

bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:30 pm
DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:44 pm
beetlebum71 wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:28 pm People from the outside can say what they want about Fleck and are entitled to their opinion, but the kids he recruits seem like they would take a bullet for him. That's what's it's all about in college football. The only people who need to believe in you are the kids.
Sadly, in this situation it's more like Fleck promising the kids they're going to go to Disney Land when they're instead going to the dentist.
That's recruiting for you, and PJ should not be knocked for it.
There's a difference. Good coaches say "We're going to Disney Land. But first we have to go to the dentist but we're going to Disney Land after."

Fleck puts on Mickey Mouse ears knowing he's full of shit even when the kid is getting a needle in his gums.

All talk so far.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by bubu dubu. »

DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:49 pm
bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:30 pm
DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:44 pm

Sadly, in this situation it's more like Fleck promising the kids they're going to go to Disney Land when they're instead going to the dentist.
That's recruiting for you, and PJ should not be knocked for it.
There's a difference. Good coaches say "We're going to Disney Land. But first we have to go to the dentist but we're going to Disney Land after."

Fleck puts on Mickey Mouse ears knowing he's full of shit even when the kid is getting a needle in his gums.

All talk so far.
What is the appropriate way for him to recruit kids? "hey we arent that good, and we will never compete consistently with Michigan or tO$U, but you should play for us!"

I'm fine with how he recruits. Gophers might even have their first 1st round pick since...Maroney (?) on the roster with this Falelelalela guy. Better talent usually equates to more wins.
Last edited by bubu dubu. on Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by DC4MVP »

bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:51 pm
DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:49 pm
bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:30 pm

That's recruiting for you, and PJ should not be knocked for it.
There's a difference. Good coaches say "We're going to Disney Land. But first we have to go to the dentist but we're going to Disney Land after."

Fleck puts on Mickey Mouse ears knowing he's full of shit even when the kid is getting a needle in his gums.

All talk so far.
What is the appropriate way for him to recruit kids?
Stop recruiting shitty ones especially at QB :thumbsup:

Keep buying into his hype. I'm not impressed by words.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by bubu dubu. »

DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:12 pm
bubu dubu. wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:51 pm
DC4MVP wrote: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:49 pm

There's a difference. Good coaches say "We're going to Disney Land. But first we have to go to the dentist but we're going to Disney Land after."

Fleck puts on Mickey Mouse ears knowing he's full of shit even when the kid is getting a needle in his gums.

All talk so far.
What is the appropriate way for him to recruit kids?
Stop recruiting shitty ones especially at QB :thumbsup:

Keep buying into his hype. I'm not impressed by words.
Yeah, QB is a huge issue. I think you should be fair to him though, and realize he hasnt had much time to set up much competition at QB. I do think the two freshmen from last year are the best two freshmen QB's the GOphers have had since Leidner and Nelson (though that isnt saying much), but I don't think they are the answer. Right now the Gophers are very thin at QB, and I think that is in large part because the previous regime spent such little time recruiting QB as they were fully invested in Mitch (he was left with Rhoda and Croft). Sure, he took a swing and missed on that JUCO kid, but his options were so thin, what was he going to do? One thing PJ has proven he will do at QB, is bring in a different guy when his current guy isnt working. Also, he beat out some solid schools for this Jacob Clark kid, who also might not be the answer, but another thing PJ has proven he will do is try to outrecruit his current talent. There will be another similar to, or better than this Clark kid in his following class...that is how you find your QB. Not just crowning some freshman like we saw Kill do with Leidner, and Brewster do with Weber.
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Re: Kill ripped PJ to shreds

Post by feekdogg »

Most new coaching staffs will have immediate problems at QB. If you have a decent QB situation, you're probably not getting fired. Kill's problem was whiffing on so many QBs (Streveler, McKinzie, Croft) or not having the ones he inherited being a fit for his offense (Shortell) and Gray was never really a competent QB. Then Nelson ran away because he was told he'd have to earn the starter's job. You typically only take one scholarship QB a year. You can't miss on those.
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