Astros Sign-Stealing Punishment: Luhnow, Hinch suspended for one year

[Dan33185]

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/01/13/ma ... -one-year/

Major League Baseball has just handed down major punishment in the Astros sign-stealing scandal. Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic report that Rob Manfred has issued the following sanctions:

A one-year suspension for general manager Jeff Luhnow;
A one-year suspension for manager A.J. Hinch;
The forfeitures of first- and second-round draft picks in both 2020 and ’21;
A fine of $5 million, the maximum allowed under MLB’s constitution;
The placement of former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on baseball’s ineligible list.
Taubman, you will recall, was fired by the Astros in November following his behavior in the wake of the Astros’ Game 6 victory over the Yankees, in which he shouted at a group of three female reporters, “Thank god we got [Roberto] Osuna! I’m so [expletive] glad we got Osuna!”

No players have been disciplined. Alex Cora, then the bench coach of the Astors and now the manager of the Boston Red Sox, will be punished after MLB completes its investigations into the recent allegations surrounding the 2018 Red Sox stealing signs.

This is the most serious discipline leveled upon a team, or on its manager or executives, in recent memory. The only thing comparable was MLB permanently banning Braves general manager John Coppolella in November 2017 for obstructing the league’s investigation into international signing irregularities.

This punishment marks the end — for now anyway — of the scandal which began in early November Rosenthal and Drellich reported that the Astros had, in the 2017 season, employed a sophisticated sign-stealing process involving the use of a video camera in center field at Minute Maid Park. In the article, multiple people who worked for the team that season, including current A’s pitcher Mike Fiers, confirmed the existence of the sign-stealing to The Athletic. Subsequently, video evidence of the sign-stealing scheme was uncovered, in which one could clearly hear Astros players banging loudly on a trash can to signal pitches to their teammate up at bat.

The Athletic reported that the Astros’ system was originally set up by two players, one of whom was “a hitter who was struggling at the plate and had benefited from sign stealing with a previous team.” As such, it was understood by the Astros players — and anyone reading the report — that other teams were using sign-stealing schemes of their own. It also followed that, since Astros players and coaches would inevitably be traded or would sign on with other teams, that the Astros’ scheme would become known by other teams. As such, it made sense that the Astros were not worried about their scheme being found out by other teams, probably because they knew other teams had schemes of their own.

In the wake of the allegations, and in light of the likelihood that this was a league-wide problem, Major League Baseball initially said that it did not plan to limit its investigation to the Astros. Then MLB reversed course and said that he would only be investigating Houston. Once the allegations regarding the Red Sox came out, that position became untenable for Major League Baseball, suggesting that this punishment is just the end of the beginning of the story as opposed to the true end.

In the meantime, the Astros need a new manager. And a new general manager. And we will now begin a major, major reckoning about cheating in Major League Baseball.

[Sid Hartman]

They gone...fired, don’t work here anymore, services no longer needed, wish you well in your future endeavors!

Cora better brush up on his Korean as the KBO is only place that will hire him in future

[TrueBlue]

Reminds me a lot of what happened to the Wolves for the Joe Smith signing...

[Ask Not]

I like this a lot. It's only going to get worse as technology improves. The only way to stop it, is to drop the hammer. I wouldn't have had a problem with 2 years - what manager is going to let it go on if he knows his career is basically over?

I wonder how they keep Luhnow off the phone.

[Da Gas Man]

Yes, but they have the WS title so they are happy.

There was bountygate too and the Saints got a title out of it. I'm not saying it's the same thing but when you get what you want and years later there is a cost, the goal can outweigh the cost easily.

[The Replacements]

Both Luhnow and Hinch fired today. I hope they're done for good. For all the innovative analytics they did as an organization, it has been reported they have one of the worst cultures in sports. It's nice to see people like this get caught and fired.

[Ask Not]

Both Luhnow and Hinch fired today. I hope they're done for good. For all the innovative analytics they did as an organization, it has been reported they have one of the worst cultures in sports. It's nice to see people like this get caught and fired.

I wonder it was negotiated ahead of time:
If you fire them, here's the punishment.
If you don't, here's the additional punishment.

[Hornets]

The players should be punished as well.....

[Miley Cyrus]

Our ol pal LoMo spittin the truth.

[Sid Hartman]

Our ol pal LoMo spittin the truth.

Well we can discount his post as isn’t it Alex Cora not Joey?

[Miley Cyrus]

Our ol pal LoMo spittin the truth.

Well we can discount his post as isn’t it Alex Cora not Joey?

He later corrected himself. Any signs weren't helping him much in 2018 anyway.

[mglviks]

Id take a ring over this punishment everytime.

No players suspended? So why wouldnt they keep doing it on their own? If worked retail and stole money from the cash register only got my boss fired why would I stop? Heck because of improved performance Id(players) would get a raise too.

Picks shouldve gone deeper, longer.

No 1st, 2nd and 3rds for 5 years. 4 total picks big deal. Theyll just sign FAs to cover 6 years from now when 2 of the 4 likely wouldve made it to the show.

[mglviks]

Id take a ring over this punishment everytime.

No players suspended? So why wouldnt they keep doing it on their own? If worked retail and stole money from the cash register only got my boss fired why would I stop? Heck because of improved performance Id(players) would get a raise too.

Picks shouldve gone deeper, longer.

No 1st, 2nd and 3rds for 5 years. 4 total picks big deal. Theyll just sign FAs to cover 6 years from now when 2 of the 4 likely wouldve made it to the show.

[Sid Hartman]

Our ol pal LoMo spittin the truth.

Well we can discount his post as isn’t it Alex Cora not Joey?

He later corrected himself. Any signs weren't helping him much in 2018 anyway.

So can Twins go after him for stealing $ by inflating his numbers through cheating to get the contract he did?

[weimy froob]

i thought that if you weren't cheating in baseball you weren't trying.

[Miley Cyrus]

Well we can discount his post as isn’t it Alex Cora not Joey?

He later corrected himself. Any signs weren't helping him much in 2018 anyway.

So can Twins go after him for stealing $ by inflating his numbers through cheating to get the contract he did?

Ask Fred Wray on that one. An extra 6.5 mil won't do much to improve a mediocre rotation anyway.

[RubeTube]

I don't necessarily get this. Maybe I'm not one of these "Old tyme" Baseball folks.

Why is this such a big deal? They stole some signs? We used to steal signs in little league and HS in the 90's, obviously not to this extent. Teams have been doing this for years. I never knew it was such a bad thing. They are acting as if these men murdered someone. This is baseball though. It's a relic.

Like why the fuck did baseball players who used steroids need to go in front of congress years back? Like what is that about? Why does congress care if Mark McGuire had a tainted HR record?

It's 2020, boy's.

The Patriots get caught cheating every couple years and it isn't pandemonium like this.

Stealing signs is getting a edge. We used to have fake signs we would throw out to keep teams off our trail.

[Ron Burgundy 4 President]

I don't necessarily get this. Maybe I'm not one of these "Old tyme" Baseball folks.

Why is this such a big deal? They stole some signs? We used to steal signs in little league and HS in the 90's, obviously not to this extent. Teams have been doing this for years. I never knew it was such a bad thing. They are acting as if these men murdered someone. This is baseball though. It's a relic.

Like why the fuck did baseball players who used steroids need to go in front of congress years back? Like what is that about? Why does congress care if Mark McGuire had a tainted HR record?

It's 2020, boy's.

The Patriots get caught cheating every couple years and it isn't pandemonium like this.

Stealing signs is getting a edge. We used to have fake signs we would throw out to keep teams off our trail.

I think the issue in this case was that they were using a hidden camera in centerfield to relay signs (pitch type and location) to someone with an Applewatch in the dugout who would communicate said information to the hitter by banging shit on a trashcan in the dugout. This wasn't the old fashioned type of sign stealing.

[RubeTube]

I don't necessarily get this. Maybe I'm not one of these "Old tyme" Baseball folks.

Why is this such a big deal? They stole some signs? We used to steal signs in little league and HS in the 90's, obviously not to this extent. Teams have been doing this for years. I never knew it was such a bad thing. They are acting as if these men murdered someone. This is baseball though. It's a relic.

Like why the fuck did baseball players who used steroids need to go in front of congress years back? Like what is that about? Why does congress care if Mark McGuire had a tainted HR record?

It's 2020, boy's.

The Patriots get caught cheating every couple years and it isn't pandemonium like this.

Stealing signs is getting a edge. We used to have fake signs we would throw out to keep teams off our trail.

I think the issue in this case was that they were using a hidden camera in centerfield to relay signs (pitch type and location) to someone with an Applewatch in the dugout who would communicate said information to the hitter by banging shit on a trashcan in the dugout. This wasn't the old fashioned type of sign stealing.

Oh I see.

I didn't read into much of it as it's not that interesting to me.

I can see people getting punished but the article I read said when technology gets to what it is now, this stuff is going to happen. I read something about the Yankees doing it in 2015.

Who knows.

I guess they had to do something to prevent it from happening again.

[Ron Burgundy 4 President]

I don't necessarily get this. Maybe I'm not one of these "Old tyme" Baseball folks.

Why is this such a big deal? They stole some signs? We used to steal signs in little league and HS in the 90's, obviously not to this extent. Teams have been doing this for years. I never knew it was such a bad thing. They are acting as if these men murdered someone. This is baseball though. It's a relic.

Like why the fuck did baseball players who used steroids need to go in front of congress years back? Like what is that about? Why does congress care if Mark McGuire had a tainted HR record?

It's 2020, boy's.

The Patriots get caught cheating every couple years and it isn't pandemonium like this.

Stealing signs is getting a edge. We used to have fake signs we would throw out to keep teams off our trail.

I think the issue in this case was that they were using a hidden camera in centerfield to relay signs (pitch type and location) to someone with an Applewatch in the dugout who would communicate said information to the hitter by banging shit on a trashcan in the dugout. This wasn't the old fashioned type of sign stealing.

Oh I see.

I didn't read into much of it as it's not that interesting to me.

I can see people getting punished but the article I read said when technology gets to what it is now, this stuff is going to happen. I read something about the Yankees doing it in 2015.

Who knows.

I guess they had to do something to prevent it from happening again.

I'm sure someone will try again, but the fact that AJ Hinch has unofficially been banned for life will deter a lot of people who might otherwise consider it.

[bubu dubu.]

I don't necessarily get this. Maybe I'm not one of these "Old tyme" Baseball folks.

Why is this such a big deal? They stole some signs? We used to steal signs in little league and HS in the 90's, obviously not to this extent. Teams have been doing this for years. I never knew it was such a bad thing. They are acting as if these men murdered someone. This is baseball though. It's a relic.

Like why the fuck did baseball players who used steroids need to go in front of congress years back? Like what is that about? Why does congress care if Mark McGuire had a tainted HR record?

It's 2020, boy's.

The Patriots get caught cheating every couple years and it isn't pandemonium like this.

Stealing signs is getting a edge. We used to have fake signs we would throw out to keep teams off our trail.

I think there is a major difference between a runner on base peaking in and catching the hand signals of the catcher and alerting the hitter to what might be coming, as opposed to an elaborate system using technology.

[bubu dubu.]

Just read Hinch and Lunhow's statements...

Kinda feel for Hinch, and hope he gets another chance in the future. Sounds like he was just kind of a by-stander on the whole thing. He knew it was going on, and knew it was wrong which was his fault for not alerting MLB to it...It does however sound like he tried to sabotage the operation at least twice. I can see it from his perspective, not agreeing with the integrity of it, but also feeling like you cant throw the whole organization you work for, and the man that hired you, under the bus.

Lunhow's statement on the other hand, is complete shit. Acting like he knew nothing about it, and that the operation was executed by players and low-level employees. Fuck off with that statement.

[RubeTube]

Just read Hinch and Lunhow's statements...

Kinda feel for Hinch, and hope he gets another chance in the future. Sounds like he was just kind of a by-stander on the whole thing. He knew it was going on, and knew it was wrong which was his fault for not alerting MLB to it...It does however sound like he tried to sabotage the operation at least twice. I can see it from his perspective, not agreeing with the integrity of it, but also feeling like you cant throw the whole organization you work for, and the man that hired you, under the bus.

Lunhow's statement on the other hand, is complete shit. Acting like he knew nothing about it, and that the operation was executed by players and low-level employees. Fuck off with that statement.

Definitely sounds like a double edged sword.

[bubu dubu.]

I watched this video of the cheating in game 7 of the WS in 2017...after watching it, I feel like the WS title should be stripped.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

I always remember hearing things when watching Astros games specifically, like banging sounds, or whistles, and found them odd, but just dismissed it to being crowd noise.

[Tommy_Hawk]

I watched this video of the cheating in game 7 of the WS in 2017...after watching it, I feel like the WS title should be stripped.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

I always remember hearing things when watching Astros games specifically, like banging sounds, or whistles, and found them odd, but just dismissed it to being crowd noise.

JFC.

I saw videos of the banging earlier but not this. I feel bad for the Dodgers now. Two World Series' in a row they faced Hinch and Cora (who was in Hinch's dugout the first WS) . I would be so fucking mad if the Twins made it twice in a row and lost. This stuff is so blatant. It's definitely over the line. Fuck the Astros and Red Sox.

I do remember after the first WS, they asked Bregman I think if Darvish was tipping his pitches, or if they had a read on him because the Astros pounded the baseball against him. Bregman just kind of smiled. Gross.

[Tommy_Hawk]

I watched this video of the cheating in game 7 of the WS in 2017...after watching it, I feel like the WS title should be stripped.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

I always remember hearing things when watching Astros games specifically, like banging sounds, or whistles, and found them odd, but just dismissed it to being crowd noise.

JFC.

I saw videos of the banging earlier but not this. I feel bad for the Dodgers now. Two World Series' in a row they faced Hinch and Cora (who was in Hinch's dugout the first WS) . I would be so fucking mad if the Twins made it twice in a row and lost. This stuff is so blatant. It's definitely over the line. Fuck the Astros and Red Sox.

I do remember after the first WS, they asked Bregman I think if Darvish was tipping his pitches, or if they had a read on him because the Astros pounded the baseball against him. Bregman just kind of smiled. Gross.

I just typed it in and there's tons of stories on it:

https://www.si.com/major-league-basebal ... rld-series

https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/12/12/dodge ... ies-astros

Newer ones from this year- https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/astros ... n-severino

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports ... 513434.php

Were they all tipping pitches, or were they "tipping pitches"?

[weimy froob]

If Pete Rose is out of baseball forever, Alex Cora should be too

In the long annals of Major League Baseball, there are but just a few men who have suffered the ultimate punishment from the league — lifetime banishment. That includes members of the Chicago Black Sox Scandal, most famously Shoeless Joe Jackson, and all-time hit leader Pete Rose, who was caught gambling on the game as a manager in the 1980s.

In both cases, the sins were the manipulation of games (the 1919 World Series) or the potential manipulation of games (any that Rose managed while gambling, even though there has never been proof he bet against his team to win).

Both punishments are controversial. Both stand — three decades now for Rose, nearly a century for the Black Sox. It’s part of MLB’s zero-tolerance policy.

The core issue is that individual conduct rendered the games illegitimate (or potentially illegitimate). It’s something MLB believes it simply can’t tolerate, thus the use of its nuclear option of discipline.

So if Rose and Jackson are out forever, then why not former Red Sox manager Alex Cora?

The Red Sox effectively fired Cora on Tuesday in the wake of the league concluding that while working as a bench coach for the Houston Astros in 2017, Cora orchestrated a sign-stealing program using the video replay room and the banging of garbage cans to alert hitters. The system helped the Astros win the World Series that year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/if-pete-rose-i ... 43168.html

[j2j]

Meh... who cares?

[boxter432]

Meh... who cares?

what if other teams knew ahead of time that Andrew Wiggins was going to try a spin move in the paint? He would get stripped every time! we couldn't have that.

[j2j]

Meh... who cares?

what if other teams knew ahead of time that Andrew Wiggins was going to try a spin move in the paint? He would get stripped every time! we couldn't have that.

Wait... This does happen. WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION! Get Manfred on the phone!