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Parise

A place to discuss the MN Wild
Jimtown guy
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Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

Season has yet to start and already having back problems. Hopefully it's minimal.
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DMB
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Re: Parise

Post by DMB »

I saw rumblings of that on teh twatter. I refuse to buy subscription to the athetic to read about it and I think Russo is a douche.

I basically think this is the beginning of the end of Parise. Back injuries never heal and as I've said before-dude takes about 20 hard shots to the back per game-hell maybe more.
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ILLogic
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Re: Parise

Post by ILLogic »

DMB wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:40 am I saw rumblings of that on teh twatter. I refuse to buy subscription to the athetic to read about it and I think Russo is a douche.

I basically think this is the beginning of the end of Parise. Back injuries never heal and as I've said before-dude takes about 20 hard shots to the back per game-hell maybe more.
Parise is on contract until 2025/2026 :brick:
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Re: Parise

Post by DMB »

ILLogic wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:36 am
DMB wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:40 am I saw rumblings of that on teh twatter. I refuse to buy subscription to the athetic to read about it and I think Russo is a douche.

I basically think this is the beginning of the end of Parise. Back injuries never heal and as I've said before-dude takes about 20 hard shots to the back per game-hell maybe more.
Parise is on contract until 2025/2026 :brick:


This is the part of the contract we all knew would come. I just hoped it wouldn't have come this soon. On the bright side Suter seems to be holding up a little better.
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Re: Parise

Post by HeHateMe »

I don't know enough about NHL contracts but his cap hit was equally spread out at 7.5 mil from 2012-13 through 2024-25? That kind of sucks... here I thought the nice thing was going to be the back end of his 30s were low salaries.


From 15-16 through 19-20 his base is 9 mil a year... then it drops to 8, 6, 2 and 1 mil the final two years of the contract. None of that probably matters though since the cap hit is the ultimate whammy.... again, not quite sure on NHL contracts but that would probably be the biggest issue with his injuries.. of course if he retires, I'm assuming that goes away. Guy with major back issues probably doesn't play past 35-36...
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Re: Parise

Post by DMB »

HeHateMe wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:08 pm I don't know enough about NHL contracts but his cap hit was equally spread out at 7.5 mil from 2012-13 through 2024-25? That kind of sucks... here I thought the nice thing was going to be the back end of his 30s were low salaries.


From 15-16 through 19-20 his base is 9 mil a year... then it drops to 8, 6, 2 and 1 mil the final two years of the contract. None of that probably matters though since the cap hit is the ultimate whammy.... again, not quite sure on NHL contracts but that would probably be the biggest issue with his injuries.. of course if he retires, I'm assuming that goes away. Guy with major back issues probably doesn't play past 35-36...

Good info about his contract HHM. I didn't realize that.
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Re: Parise

Post by D_B_U »

Concerning but he did come back and play through them last year.

If he were to retire because of his injury, I think that cap relief would give us a chance to get VERY competitive in future years.

I hope he stays and finds his form, but he feels like he could end up being Mauer like where he doesnt match the money and doesnt play close to a full season.
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Re: Parise

Post by jakazz30 »

It is kinda humorous about the some posters on "different" boards..

The bitching about Suter...
Yet, he has been consistently the best D on the Wild..

A workhorse..

Earning his contract.

The LBJ2, not so much.

(And if you can't see the comparison, you aren't trying)
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

DMB wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:28 pm
HeHateMe wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:08 pm I don't know enough about NHL contracts but his cap hit was equally spread out at 7.5 mil from 2012-13 through 2024-25? That kind of sucks... here I thought the nice thing was going to be the back end of his 30s were low salaries.


From 15-16 through 19-20 his base is 9 mil a year... then it drops to 8, 6, 2 and 1 mil the final two years of the contract. None of that probably matters though since the cap hit is the ultimate whammy.... again, not quite sure on NHL contracts but that would probably be the biggest issue with his injuries.. of course if he retires, I'm assuming that goes away. Guy with major back issues probably doesn't play past 35-36...

Good info about his contract HHM. I didn't realize that.
Appreciate the info 👍
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Re: Parise

Post by Lenny5160 »

D_B_U wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:42 pm If he were to retire because of his injury, I think that cap relief would give us a chance to get VERY competitive in future years.
Zach retiring early would not be a good thing. We would still take a cap hit of $6.5 million over the final 2 years (lesser cap hit in earlier years; the cap recapture penalty is the AAV of the contract minus the actual salary for that year), plus we'd need to pay another player to replace him.

This is why teams would rather continue to pay the player's salary but put him on Injured Reserve so he doesn't count against the cap. (See Hossa, Marian)
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Re: Parise

Post by D_B_U »

Lenny5160 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:35 pm
D_B_U wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:42 pm If he were to retire because of his injury, I think that cap relief would give us a chance to get VERY competitive in future years.
Zach retiring early would not be a good thing. We would still take a cap hit of $6.5 million over the final 2 years (lesser cap hit in earlier years; the cap recapture penalty is the AAV of the contract minus the actual salary for that year), plus we'd need to pay another player to replace him.

This is why teams would rather continue to pay the player's salary but put him on Injured Reserve so he doesn't count against the cap. (See Hossa, Marian)
If he retires we still get the cap hit?

Is that only because he would be retiring because of Injury? I am pretty sure this doesnt happen in other sports... Could be wrong, but unless there is some injury clause in the CBA, i would assume retiring means we dont pay.
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Re: Parise

Post by Lenny5160 »

D_B_U wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:40 pm
Lenny5160 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:35 pm
D_B_U wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:42 pm If he were to retire because of his injury, I think that cap relief would give us a chance to get VERY competitive in future years.
Zach retiring early would not be a good thing. We would still take a cap hit of $6.5 million over the final 2 years (lesser cap hit in earlier years; the cap recapture penalty is the AAV of the contract minus the actual salary for that year), plus we'd need to pay another player to replace him.

This is why teams would rather continue to pay the player's salary but put him on Injured Reserve so he doesn't count against the cap. (See Hossa, Marian)
If he retires we still get the cap hit?

Is that only because he would be retiring because of Injury? I am pretty sure this doesnt happen in other sports... Could be wrong, but unless there is some injury clause in the CBA, i would assume retiring means we dont pay.
Yep, it is called a Cap Recapture Penalty. The NHL did that because we already got off easy in the early years of the contract, where we have been paying $9MM or whatever but the cap hit was only the contract's AAV of $7.5MM. If the player retires early, the team DOES get relief of whatever the actual salary is for those years but not relief for the entire cap hit.

In the final 2 years, the Parise/Suter contracts pay $1MM. The AAV of the contract of $7.5MM - $1MM salary = $6.5MM cap recapture penalty.
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Re: Parise

Post by Ron Burgundy 4 President »

Lenny5160 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:24 pm
D_B_U wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:40 pm
Lenny5160 wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:35 pm

Zach retiring early would not be a good thing. We would still take a cap hit of $6.5 million over the final 2 years (lesser cap hit in earlier years; the cap recapture penalty is the AAV of the contract minus the actual salary for that year), plus we'd need to pay another player to replace him.

This is why teams would rather continue to pay the player's salary but put him on Injured Reserve so he doesn't count against the cap. (See Hossa, Marian)
If he retires we still get the cap hit?

Is that only because he would be retiring because of Injury? I am pretty sure this doesnt happen in other sports... Could be wrong, but unless there is some injury clause in the CBA, i would assume retiring means we dont pay.
Yep, it is called a Cap Recapture Penalty. The NHL did that because we already got off easy in the early years of the contract, where we have been paying $9MM or whatever but the cap hit was only the contract's AAV of $7.5MM. If the player retires early, the team DOES get relief of whatever the actual salary is for those years but not relief for the entire cap hit.

In the final 2 years, the Parise/Suter contracts pay $1MM. The AAV of the contract of $7.5MM - $1MM salary = $6.5MM cap recapture penalty.

So in other words, there is no way they are ever coming off the books until the contracts run their course?

Gross. Maybe something in the new CBA will directly or indirectly help with this in a couple of years?

For whatever it's worth, Suter has been worth every penny of it for the most part and Parise to a slightly lesser extent has also been worth it when he actually plays.

People like to bitch about these contracts and I get it, they will probably get burned on them down the road and what Lenny points in this thread only reaffirms it, but when you take into consideration what the contracts of Heatley, Vanek, Backstrom and Pominville did to hurt the team Suter's contract has actually not been bad at all, and Parise's hasn't been dreadful even if it's not good. When he plays he's still a fringe top 6 forward but not the top 3 forward that most of us still thought he'd be at this point. No way you could have foreseen him having chronic back problems while still in his early 30's.
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Re: Parise

Post by Lenny5160 »

Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:33 pm So in other words, there is no way they are ever coming off the books until the contracts run their course?

Gross. Maybe something in the new CBA will directly or indirectly help with this in a couple of years?
You can't escape unless you can convince the players to 'do the Hossa' and pretend to be injured or something but not actually retire. In that case, the player gets paid but is not on the ice so they don't count toward the cap. I'd bet the NHL will be looking to close that loophole in the next CBA.

The Cap Recapture Penalty didn't exist when the Parise and Suter contracts were written, and the penalty exists specifically to avoid those types of contracts. Nobody actually expected Parise and Suter to play for $1 million per season when they were 40, but those seasons were added to lessen the annual cap hit over the length of the deal. The NHL got smart and put a penalty in for that.

The Wild had the right idea back then, just bad timing.
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Re: Parise

Post by Ron Burgundy 4 President »

Lenny5160 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:41 pm
Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:33 pm So in other words, there is no way they are ever coming off the books until the contracts run their course?

Gross. Maybe something in the new CBA will directly or indirectly help with this in a couple of years?
You can't escape unless you can convince the players to 'do the Hossa' and pretend to be injured or something but not actually retire. In that case, the player gets paid but is not on the ice so they don't count toward the cap. I'd bet the NHL will be looking to close that loophole in the next CBA.

The Cap Recapture Penalty didn't exist when the Parise and Suter contracts were written, and the penalty exists specifically to avoid those types of contracts. Nobody actually expected Parise and Suter to play for $1 million per season when they were 40, but those seasons were added to lessen the annual cap hit over the length of the deal. The NHL got smart and put a penalty in for that.

The Wild had the right idea back then, just bad timing.
Pretty bush league by the NHL to close a loophole and then retroactively apply the amended rules to contracts that written, signed, and agreed to by all parties, including the NHL, before said loophole was closed. It's really bush league actually, and I'd feel the same way if it were the Blackhawks or Blues getting burned on it was well.
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

From Russo:

Parise “progressing”
Six days into on-ice practices during training camp, Zach Parise has still not skated with his teammates.

Sources say he tweaked his back training before the season.

“He is skating and improving every day,” General Manager Chuck Fletcher said. “We have been encouraged by his progress on the ice over the past two weeks.”

Parise sustained a season-ending herniated disk two years ago.
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Re: Parise

Post by Beef Supreme »

Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:57 pm
Lenny5160 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:41 pm
Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:33 pm So in other words, there is no way they are ever coming off the books until the contracts run their course?

Gross. Maybe something in the new CBA will directly or indirectly help with this in a couple of years?
You can't escape unless you can convince the players to 'do the Hossa' and pretend to be injured or something but not actually retire. In that case, the player gets paid but is not on the ice so they don't count toward the cap. I'd bet the NHL will be looking to close that loophole in the next CBA.

The Cap Recapture Penalty didn't exist when the Parise and Suter contracts were written, and the penalty exists specifically to avoid those types of contracts. Nobody actually expected Parise and Suter to play for $1 million per season when they were 40, but those seasons were added to lessen the annual cap hit over the length of the deal. The NHL got smart and put a penalty in for that.

The Wild had the right idea back then, just bad timing.
Pretty bush league by the NHL to close a loophole and then retroactively apply the amended rules to contracts that written, signed, and agreed to by all parties, including the NHL, before said loophole was closed. It's really bush league actually, and I'd feel the same way if it were the Blackhawks or Blues getting burned on it was well.
In the real court of law, such things are illegal. Ex post facto, I think. You cannot be prosecuted for something illegal if it was legal when you did it.

That's for criminal cases. I'd imagine there's something similar for civil/contractural law, but maybe a CBA can supersede that? I'm not really sure.

Agreed. Bush league.
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Jimtown guy
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

Parise was on ice for practice today. It's a start.
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Re: Parise

Post by Ron Burgundy 4 President »

Jimtown guy wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:21 pm Parise was on ice for practice today. It's a start.
Good to hear. This team is better when he is in the lineup. :thumbsup:
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:20 pm
Jimtown guy wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:21 pm Parise was on ice for practice today. It's a start.
Good to hear. This team is better when he is in the lineup. :thumbsup:
You I know that at least. He said it felt good. I'd post the article but it's from The Athletic. Worth the 42 bucks for a year.
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Re: Parise

Post by jakazz30 »

Jimtown guy wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:47 pm
Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:20 pm
Jimtown guy wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:21 pm Parise was on ice for practice today. It's a start.
Good to hear. This team is better when he is in the lineup. :thumbsup:
You I know that at least. He said it felt good. I'd post the article but it's from The Athletic. Worth the 42 bucks for a year.
Starting to get concerned..
Main reason? Back injuries/ problems seem to be the one thing that some athletes just can't get over...they linger, get better for a bit, come back...end careers..
Will it happen with Zach? I have no idea. But I'd be lying if I wasn't concerned.
(Think Mike Bossy, Tiger Woods, Tony Romo, etc..)


http://www.startribune.com/zach-parise- ... 448338393/
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Re: Parise

Post by Ron Burgundy 4 President »

jakazz30 wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:55 pm
Jimtown guy wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:47 pm
Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:20 pm

Good to hear. This team is better when he is in the lineup. :thumbsup:
You I know that at least. He said it felt good. I'd post the article but it's from The Athletic. Worth the 42 bucks for a year.
Starting to get concerned..
Main reason? Back injuries/ problems seem to be the one thing that some athletes just can't get over...they linger, get better for a bit, come back...end careers..
Will it happen with Zach? I have no idea. But I'd be lying if I wasn't concerned.
(Think Mike Bossy, Tiger Woods, Tony Romo, etc..)


http://www.startribune.com/zach-parise- ... 448338393/
You are right to be concerned and I am as well. Especially when you consider the particular style he plays. He's not a floater or a perimeter player like Gabby or Vanek. Almost every goal he scores or otherwise creates happens in or near the blue paint.

I take some comfort in the fact that I believe (my opinion and nothing more) he was playing all or at least most of last season very far from 100% and was still a reasonable effective player when he did play even if he wasn't great.

In other words, he seems to be willing and able to play through it even if he'll never quite be the same player he once was. At a certain point, you'd have to assume it will eventually catch up to him and will probably do so in a hurry when that does happen. Until it does, I think the best we can hope for is 2-4 more seasons like the one he had last season.
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

Wild's Parise to miss at least 2 games with back issue

Ian McLarenOct 2 2017, 11:51 AM

The Minnesota Wild will start the season without Zach Parise on the ice.

The veteran winger has been dealing with a back issue throughout training camp, and because of the problem, will be held out of the lineup for at least the club's first two regular season games, scheduled for Thursday and Saturday.

"Parise's having a hard time getting to 100% so we'll be pulling back slightly," said general manager Chuck Fletcher. "If all goes well he'd rejoin the team next Monday."

Last season, Parise was limited by nagging injuries and illnesses, and finished with only 19 goals and 23 assists in 69 games - his lowest full-season totals since his rookie season with the New Jersey Devils.

Minnesota's third game is set for Oct. 12, giving him extra time in which to get up to speed, health permitting.
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Re: Parise

Post by Mnsportsfan22 »

The most likely scenario for the wild and parise is LTIR. His back issues will force it in a few years most likely. If we can't do that like a previous poster has said we are screwed with his cap hit!
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

Mnsportsfan22 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:20 pm The most likely scenario for the wild and parise is LTIR. His back issues will force it in a few years most likely. If we can't do that like a previous poster has said we are screwed with his cap hit!
Personally I think he should just have surgery and move on from there. Mario and Gretzky did and played well after it was done. Knowing Parise he's to stubborn to do that and thinks he can fight through it. It isn't working.
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Re: Parise

Post by Mnsportsfan22 »

Jimtown guy wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:07 pm
Mnsportsfan22 wrote: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:20 pm The most likely scenario for the wild and parise is LTIR. His back issues will force it in a few years most likely. If we can't do that like a previous poster has said we are screwed with his cap hit!
Personally I think he should just have surgery and move on from there. Mario and Gretzky did and played well after it was done. Knowing Parise he's to stubborn to do that and thinks he can fight through it. It isn't working.
Might not be a bad option. I would hope he would do that the day after the season is over at this point though. Or I guess wait until it just isn't playable.
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Re: Parise

Post by JPM »

Stubborn = stupid
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Re: Parise

Post by Jimtown guy »

Parise is back and Granlund out for at least 4 more games.
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Re: Parise

Post by Hornets »

Jimtown guy wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:05 pm Parise is back and Granlund out for at least 4 more games.
FOUR MORE GAMES FOR GRANNY??? YIKES! Those groin injuries are sons of bitches and I guess they better get him right before it turns into a months long issue....hope Zach can come in and contribute right away!

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Re: Parise

Post by JigglyPuff »

how come all of the midgets on the Wild are the ones who seem to always be injured?
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