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The Women boycotting deal

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jakazz30
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The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

Ok.....
I respect their choice to not play if they don't want to....

But......the reality is what they want can't happen right now.

A wage that allows them to only play hockey?

The Whitecaps led the league in attendance...1200 a game.
Let's say they got $30 a fan...thats $36,000 a game..

There were only 10 home games.

So there's $360,000....
No TV revenue...

Assume an 18 player roster....getting paid $30,000 each...
That's $540.000...

So the team is $180,000 in the hole.....and they haven't paid for anything beyond players.

Want to kill the dream of pro hockey for women?

They are doing it...
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bubu dubu.
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by bubu dubu. »

Yeah, I don't know where they think the revenue is supposed to come from. I do wish we lived in a world where a woman could make a fair living in whatever field they choose, but right now, they cannot do that in professional hockey.

On this topic, I'm reminded of a recent rant that Cheryl Reeve had, basically saying that if the WNCAA basketball tournament got as much coverage as the men did, they would garner just as much revenue...that simply isnt true, because people want to watch the top talent at any level of sport, and the men are far more talented at that level.
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bubu dubu.
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by bubu dubu. »

how long is the professional season in North America for woman's hockey, and what is their standard wage?
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Ron Burgundy 4 President
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Ron Burgundy 4 President »

I could be wrong, but I believe the WNBA is subsidized big time by the NBA to keep it afloat. I'm guessing this is a ploy to in an indirect way ask the NHL and/or NHLPA to subsidize their league and wages in a similar manner. Quite frankly, I don't see that happening for a lot of reasons not least of which is an impending labor stoppage for the 2020-21 NHL season looming which will obviously keep both parties plenty busy for the next 16 months or so.
Sellingguy
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Sellingguy »

this is what happens when you try to a create a world of perfect fairness and opportunity. You get bullshit requests and demands like this.
Yes the NBA bank rolls the WNBA. Should the NHL do the same? That is their CHOICE and it should not be forced to happen.

I suppose next the girls want to play at the X, for no rent..and no fans.
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Hornets
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Hornets »

Sellingguy wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 7:37 am this is what happens when you try to a create a world of perfect fairness and opportunity. You get bullshit requests and demands like this.
Yes the NBA bank rolls the WNBA. Should the NHL do the same? That is their CHOICE and it should not be forced to happen.

I suppose next the girls want to play at the X, for no rent..and no fans.
Are these some of the same girls whose parents forced the MN Sports Commission to let the HS girls play their state tourney at the X in front of 2500 fans? These ladies sure can skate but they can't draw a crowd...
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Jimtown guy
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Jimtown guy »

Look no further than UND and dropping their women’s program. They were losing something like 1 mil a year and obviously that won’t cut it. Average attendance was 800 a game at the Ralph. When money is tight programs need to be cut and women’s hockey was the obvious choice. Being a coach of a girls high school team for 6 years I appreciate their dedication to the sport but the majority of hockey fans could give 2 shits about it. It is what it is
Sellingguy
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Sellingguy »

Hornets wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:19 am
Sellingguy wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 7:37 am this is what happens when you try to a create a world of perfect fairness and opportunity. You get bullshit requests and demands like this.
Yes the NBA bank rolls the WNBA. Should the NHL do the same? That is their CHOICE and it should not be forced to happen.

I suppose next the girls want to play at the X, for no rent..and no fans.
Are these some of the same girls whose parents forced the MN Sports Commission to let the HS girls play their state tourney at the X in front of 2500 fans? These ladies sure can skate but they can't draw a crowd...
im sure there are some ties to that, and lets not forget why Ridder area was built. At that time, they wanted the girls, both gophers and HS to play to a Packed house. THe girls state tourny NEVER sold out 3500 seats at ridder.

The bottom line is this. There is only so much money to go around. From supporting it to attending games, the women sports are never going to catch the men. They can complain and bitch all they want. You cant demand fairness from the fans. but we will try.
jakazz30
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

bubu dubu. wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 10:47 pm how long is the professional season in North America for woman's hockey, and what is their standard wage?
The season stretches out for about 4 months....but they only play 20-24 games.
(Usually like how it was done in the WCHA...a 2 game weekend deal)

Wages have really varied....from $2500 to $25,000+ (that was for Amanda Kessel..only player to get that high of an amount)
jakazz30
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

Ron Burgundy 4 President wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 2:06 am I could be wrong, but I believe the WNBA is subsidized big time by the NBA to keep it afloat. I'm guessing this is a ploy to in an indirect way ask the NHL and/or NHLPA to subsidize their league and wages in a similar manner. Quite frankly, I don't see that happening for a lot of reasons not least of which is an impending labor stoppage for the 2020-21 NHL season looming which will obviously keep both parties plenty busy for the next 16 months or so.
The other thing is.....in my lifetime...with a few exceptions....even MLB players used to have other jobs because the pay wasn't high enough in MLB.

I remember Bob Allison, Twins HoF'r, used to have a job at the Coca-Cola offices that used to be in NE Mpls...by the River..
I'd see him at the Red Owl occasionally picking up groceries.

I'm sure the owners in the NWHL would love to pay the players more....but they just don't have the revenue.

NHL involvement? They have there own issues to deal with..(why throw time and money at a league that has only 1 team drawing over 1,000 per game?)
Work out a TV deal....even if it's buying the airtime, and the league keeps some commercial space (revenue)..
Then maybe the NHL would be interested.
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DC4MVP
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by DC4MVP »

I don't get this either......

So you're going to boycott your pro leagues? OK cool. But as you boycott them, they're going to fold leaving you nowhere to play. If the NHL doesn't cave and hands you fist fulls of money you're going to lose, then you have nothing.

I don't understand this strategy.

Hockey is still a highly regional sports in the US. The reason the WNBA is so successful and can be subsidized by the NBA is because basketball is a vastly more popular sport nationwide than hockey (probably #2 to football). Hell, there's a handful of NHL teams that struggle to sell-out half of an arena to a vastly superior on-ice product.

I went to 2 Whitecaps games this year and thought it was pretty good, Olympic caliber hockey. It was a fun time. And I'd probably go to more but even men's college hockey greatly surpasses woman's pro hockey. Hell, I'd think a top-tier MN high school team can give any woman's pro team a real run for their money.

The NHL can throw as much money as they want at a woman's league and it's just going to burn money with no greater results than what they have with the NWHL. Why would the NHL donate money or subsidize a league that can't sustain on it's own? The NHL is a business and no business is going to piss away millions of dollars on a league that's going to bleed money or fold.

Sorry, girls. I totally think you should at least get $50k a season but there's just no demand for your product. There's barely a a demand for men's pro hockey in at least half of the U.S. so why do you think a woman's pro league can be more than a novelty?
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bombers3shooter
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by bombers3shooter »

Go ahead boycott it and see if you have a league to come back to. The WNBA doesn't make a dime and they bitch about wage disparity daily. Go on strike, get a different CBA, or go and start your own league and charge the fans you have an average of $150 a ticket instead of barely $20 and schedule 41 home games instead of 10-15 and bring in enough income to support your wage increases. Somebody has to pay for it!

These ladies talk like the money should just come out of thin air. If you try to be the voice of reason and bring a little bit of logic to the table you get called sexist. I've tried to watch it and it's not for me. Why? Because they are not the best leagues in the world.

If you ask Cheryl Reeve she'd tell you they just need more advertising and exposure. C'mon lady! The ad preps would give you all the exposure you could handle if they could make money off your product. A few months ago Danny B eas asking her the tough questions about Maya Moore taking a sabbatical and she could not have embarrassed herself any more acting as if Dan was rude and was very noticeably annoyed that anybody would ask her a question about something that wasn't duckies and bunnies. Imagine if Patrick Mahomes just decided to take a year off and Andy Reid refused to talk about it!
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Hornets
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Hornets »

Gals got no chance....ZERO to make this thing go unless the NHL helps, which they won't. So if the young ladies want to play hockey and call it professional, they will NOT be making liveable wages, not even close. Caliber of play is top notch....for girls hockey. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Hole Nova Level
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Hole Nova Level »

Loved the NHL's "we don't care, good luck to you, nobody wants to watch WNHL"-statement.

That was a quick-final nail in the coffin. And to think people were upset it took a whole 2 days to issue the final nail in the coffin statement.

Aside from the fact that the NHL playoff ratings are hurting....bad timing for the girls asking aka expecting for handouts from NHL owners.
jakazz30
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

Sellingguy wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 11:50 am
Hornets wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:19 am
Sellingguy wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 7:37 am this is what happens when you try to a create a world of perfect fairness and opportunity. You get bullshit requests and demands like this.
Yes the NBA bank rolls the WNBA. Should the NHL do the same? That is their CHOICE and it should not be forced to happen.

I suppose next the girls want to play at the X, for no rent..and no fans.
Are these some of the same girls whose parents forced the MN Sports Commission to let the HS girls play their state tourney at the X in front of 2500 fans? These ladies sure can skate but they can't draw a crowd...
im sure there are some ties to that, and lets not forget why Ridder area was built. At that time, they wanted the girls, both gophers and HS to play to a Packed house. THe girls state tourny NEVER sold out 3500 seats at ridder.

The bottom line is this. There is only so much money to go around. From supporting it to attending games, the women sports are never going to catch the men. They can complain and bitch all they want. You cant demand fairness from the fans. but we will try.
Part of the problem is that the NWHLs season runs at the same time as the NHL and colleges...If you want to see hockey, they wouldn't be the 1st choice for most people..
Compared to the NBA, WNBA situation where their seasons run at different times. (And I don't think running a hockey league in the summer is going to work..heck a lot of facilities don't even keep the ice during the summer)

There was an opportunity here for the women to lay a nice groundwork this season...(with the Canadian league folding...so all of the best players would've been in one place...and the NWHL expanding into Toronto and Montreal)
Were they going to get paid more? No..but maybe someone like TSN would have an interest in televising an occasional game. (Baby steps....dont expect to go from a shack to a mansion overnight)
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Lenny5160
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Lenny5160 »

I can't say it any better than it has already been said here.

I supported the women in their battle with USA Hockey for equal training pay for national team members. That makes sense and they had the leverage of the upcoming Olympics.

Do they have any leverage here? I suppose they could possibly make the NHL look bad by not stepping up to run this show is the only thing. It isn't like all of the fans are going to miss the show and there will be public outrage.

It's unfortunate that the best players in the world can't make a living playing hockey, but how can they feel that they are entitled to do so?
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bombers3shooter
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by bombers3shooter »

Lenny5160 wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 4:39 pm I can't say it any better than it has already been said here.

I supported the women in their battle with USA Hockey for equal training pay for national team members. That makes sense and they had the leverage of the upcoming Olympics.

Do they have any leverage here? I suppose they could possibly make the NHL look bad by not stepping up to run this show is the only thing. It isn't like all of the fans are going to miss the show and there will be public outrage.

It's unfortunate that the best players in the world can't make a living playing hockey, but how can they feel that they are entitled to do so?
This entitlement came long ago and probably stems from Title IX. I've even seen people go to the lengths of saying its sexist that they have the word "women" in the logo of the Womens Final 4 and the mens does not and is just referred to as the Final 4. If the Women want a shot they could show up to walk-on tryouts for the Mens division 1 teams, but everyone knows how that would end. How long until nobody can play sports because it just isn't fair that women cannot support their own professional/college/HS franchises/leagues in several cases?
jakazz30
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

May the women fail......I actually want them to now after this article:

http://m.startribune.com/national-women ... 509671392/


The key quote:

“What’s happening in that league is something that we are not willing to go back to,” former Minnesota Duluth standout Zoe Hickel told KTUU-TV of Anchorage, Alaska. “We don’t want anything from the NWHL, we are not holding out for anything. We just want to close that chapter and start a new one.”

Hey......way to actually care about the people that gave this a chance..
I guarantee they weren't getting rich off of this.
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Hornets
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by Hornets »

Hey, the gals can still play open hockey every Tuesday and Thursday at the Schwan Super Rink!!
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jakazz30
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

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DC4MVP
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by DC4MVP »

One thing that pisses me off is the "We're working in the off-season!" bullshit.

Tough fucking shit, ladies.

In the 60's-80's of the successful men's leagues (particularly the NFL), ALL players had to get REAL jobs in the off-season. Future Hall of Fame players were working construction or tending bar in the off-season and these players were playing in sold out stadiums.

Your league is FOUR years old and you're already expecting to make a comfortable living? I think you deserve more money....I really do but if Walter fucking Payton had to work days after winning a Super Bowl, you can do it too.

Most fringe sports like this or the National Lacrosse League that the former MN Swarm played in have players that work a job during the week, practice in the evenings, and play on the weekends.
jakazz30
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by jakazz30 »

DC4MVP wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm One thing that pisses me off is the "We're working in the off-season!" bullshit.

Tough fucking shit, ladies.

In the 60's-80's of the successful men's leagues (particularly the NFL), ALL players had to get REAL jobs in the off-season. Future Hall of Fame players were working construction or tending bar in the off-season and these players were playing in sold out stadiums.

Your league is FOUR years old and you're already expecting to make a comfortable living? I think you deserve more money....I really do but if Walter fucking Payton had to work days after winning a Super Bowl, you can do it too.

Most fringe sports like this or the National Lacrosse League that the former MN Swarm played in have players that work a job during the week, practice in the evenings, and play on the weekends.

Hell.....why do the majority of WNBA players play in foreign leagues in the "off-season"?
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DC4MVP
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by DC4MVP »

jakazz30 wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:14 pm
DC4MVP wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm One thing that pisses me off is the "We're working in the off-season!" bullshit.

Tough fucking shit, ladies.

In the 60's-80's of the successful men's leagues (particularly the NFL), ALL players had to get REAL jobs in the off-season. Future Hall of Fame players were working construction or tending bar in the off-season and these players were playing in sold out stadiums.

Your league is FOUR years old and you're already expecting to make a comfortable living? I think you deserve more money....I really do but if Walter fucking Payton had to work days after winning a Super Bowl, you can do it too.

Most fringe sports like this or the National Lacrosse League that the former MN Swarm played in have players that work a job during the week, practice in the evenings, and play on the weekends.

Hell.....why do the majority of WNBA players play in foreign leagues in the "off-season"?
EXACTLY.
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Re: The Women boycotting deal

Post by RubeTube »

These chicks need to be in front of a stove cookin me up some grub!

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